Why are The Witcher 2 fans so defensive?

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HandsomeZer0

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Dec 6, 2010
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I haven't played either witcher game but it just looks generic.
I suppose its because its PC exclusive, and everyone has a little bit of defensive love for their favorite console. I know i do, even if i don't say which one it is.
 

Netrigan

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Witcher and Brink fans should start a support group. Both of them seem really annoyed that their game hasn't been hailed as a masterpiece by the world at large. All the flaws critics and players find with the game... you're not playing it right.
 

Alphakirby

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Honestly, Yatzhee summed it up quite well in his Mailbox Showdown against the people who sent him hate mail about his honesty on the subject of Super Smash Brothers Brawl. In other words,if you are a fan of something,you will defend it to the death if someone does so much as criticize it,out of rage and stupidity, fanboys defend things not worth defending. The companies don't care about who's insulting them,and they care even less about their defenders. (Because they don't need to,the defenders will just keep feeding them money anyway)
 

SpaceCop

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It's Dragon Age 2's hilarious negative overreaction in reverse.

Remember: opinions must be polarized! There's no such thing as under-par game with moderate improvements, or an ambitious game with mild flaws. Everything is either an unprecedented disaster slapped together by uncaring media conglomerates and goddamn Satan; or the magnum opus of a generation, zenith of quality and integrity--so ingenious that to not appreciate it means there must be something wrong with you.
 

Crowser

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Because games like The Witcher 2 are becoming more and more uncommon, so when one such as the Wticher 2 does come along, the community feels obliged to defend it lest it get negative press, leading to even less of these types of games being made.
 

Davey Woo

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Fans defend things because they think they need defending. People forget that reviews are opinions, and there's no point countering an opinion with "YEA BUT YEA BUT YEA BUT" because nobody's going to care.

Though for anyone who has complained about the lack of a tutorial, I tend to find that in sequels of games they assume that you'll have played the first one and if the controls are near enough the same then they won't bother teaching you the same controls again. That said I haven't played TW2 so I don't know how similar the controls are.

People also need to stop taking Yahtzee's 'reviews' so seriously, I know a review is all just opinions anyway but ZP ones are VERY opinion based. Yahtzee is an irritable git and just emphasises on the bad points of games for comedic effect, and also because it's easier to pick up on them. Jut because he says he doesn't like a game, doesn't mean EVERYONE has to not like it too.
 

Kahunaburger

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Netrigan said:
Witcher and Brink fans should start a support group. Both of them seem really annoyed that their game hasn't been hailed as a masterpiece by the world at large. All the flaws critics and players find with the game... you're not playing it right.
Witcher 2 basically is being hailed as such - if you look at metacritic, there are a lot of 100's and 10's and some vocal detractors. The score it's sitting at is massive for a game made on a tiny budget by an unknown publisher.

(Not to say that it actually *is* flawless - I'd actually compare it to Prince of Persia:SoT in that it has stellar writing, great atmosphere, and mostly good gameplay with some seriously clunky mechanics in there. But the point is that, like Prince of Persia, you can definitely find problems but the game as a whole is head and shoulders above most of the competition.)
 

SlasherX

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They are PC Gamers. They get defensive if you say anything bad about anything ever rometly related to PC gaming i.e any of the games, any of the communities, and basically anything else. It is seriously depressing yet laughable.
 

procyonlotor

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Like many people have pointed out, it's the fanboy syndrome. My main gripe with The Witcher 2 is that it is too short and the more you progress through the game the more the story falls apart. And that it has amnesia as a character development tool. And that the writing and voice acting is still not as good as should be. And that, like Yahtzee so cunningly pointed out, you cannot drink potions during combat. And the beginning is a little slow on combat, because it isn't really explained to you, and because you only start gaining actual skills around level six.

But otherwise it's pretty cool. (Oh, and it has QTEs.)

So keep in mind, Yahtzee's job is to bash games, not praise them.

Other than that, it's a game you should try for yourself really. It doesn't swing to one end of the spectrum or the other. It could have been far better than The Witcher 1, it just lacks on content, imo.
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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The Witcher 2 has the interesting problem of many of its "flaws" (excruciating difficulty, realistic potion mixing, drinking potions outside of battle, reading the journal is a requirement, etc.) are viewed by many as "selling points".

When your "flaws" are actually "selling points", you can see how discussions would become very divided very quickly.
 

Gametek

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Gametek said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Why do I mention this? Because the same people who cry about Dragon Age II being casual defend The Witcher 2, and I cannot even begin to understand that. When you compare the first game to the second, Assassin Of Kings has been "dumbed down", consolized, in almost every aspect. Its ridiculous. I am not saying the first is the better or whatever, but how anyone can moan about dumbed down games and obvious console ports while praising The Witcher 2.... I cannot comprehend it. Ironically, the same people probably failed at playing the first Witcher because it was to hard.
The story on Assassin as good as in the first instance of the game. The graphic is whole heartly made to enanch to a crazy point the aesthetic of the game. The quantity of weapon, armor, and game mechanism have being increased. They don't let you anymore drink in a fight. The only thing that they dumped down was the chaining our slash from the first witcher. And monster hit way harder then on the first game, believe me. Never needed to dodge/parry to complete the game. Hell, I don't even remember if I could dodge!

How this is dumping down, I fail to understand.
1. Combat is more twitch based. It has been changed to a system that is great for an xbox controller, or I should say, it went from CRPG combat to action RPG combat.

2. It took me 48 hours to complete the first Witcher. I completed maybe half the side quests, if even that. I completed the second Witcher in 30 hours. I had two of the best swords and completed every single side quest available to me. Every. Single. One. 30 hours. Quality over quantity, sure, but the game was seriously lacking in side quests.

3. The inventory screens and such. Do me a favor. Start the game and look at the inventory, meditation screen, etc. It is built for an xbox pad. From the ground up, with xbox in mind.

I could go on and on.

I am not saying that any of these points are negative. Personally I am indifferent to the combat as I faired quite well in both games and had fun with both types. The inventory bugs me a LOT, but its one small thing. The lack of side quests and the absolute lackluster, went from masterpiece to shit, slap in the face third act are also things I could rant on about all day, but I digress. The Witcher 2: Assassin Of Kings is a great game, one that I am currently playing a second time which I do not often do. All I am saying is that people bash Dragon Age 2 for the exact reasons listed above, and The Witcher 2 does the exact same things. It makes the exact same changes.

By the way, thanks for proving both mine and the OPs point while trying to argue against them. That is quite an achievement on your part.

Oh, and if you think that the story in the second game tops the one in the first by such a large margin, I simply flat out do not believe you ever finished the first one. AOK's second chapter is probably the best I have played in an RPG but otherwise, Witcher 1 all the fucking way.
A' I have played the first game. And have a savefile for any of the three ending. I don't need someone that remind me the story.
B As for the rest, you made some point. Well, as you said your self that are not exactly downside... As for the longevity, I think it have been shorted by multiple main quest line possibility. I suppose that at the third act there must be at least 4 different quest line...

As for the comparison with dragon age... don't. Look, I played all dragon age games, and between awakening[the expansion] and DA2 there is the difference between duke nukem and bioshock. The story have become linear, the ambient reused, and so on. Witcher 2 can be many thing, but it is not a completely different game from the original game.
 

ElectroJosh

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I loved The Witcher 2 but don't mind most of the criticisms (the only issue I had with Yahtzee's review was the statement about not being able to skip the custscenes - because they are skippable). While there are flaws TW2 and things that could have been handled better overall it was an improvement on the first in terms of combat, visual style, in-game choices, story, levelling and inventory management (even the inventory management still wasn't great).

For me the flaws were things that were far outweighed by the positives and I loved it as a result. But the flaws exist and people have a right to point them out and, in the case of game critics, they have a duty to do so. That way game makers can improve while gamers can be aware of these flaws and demand more out of their games.

As for Yahtzee, I love his reveiws and he has hammered some of my favourite (and his too) games over the last few years. Thats what he does. When he actually says what he likes its often surprising when one recalls how much crap he gave it in a review.
 

SyphonX

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Mar 22, 2009
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You don't have to "look anything up".

The prologue is definitely thrown at you, and it's difficult just learning the (admittedly) new ropes of the Witcher 2's combat. It's heaps different from the first, and it took me a bit to find my groove. Everything was 'floaty' and too free-form at first, but I got used to it, and developed my style.

Imagine that.

Trial by fire, literally. (Dragon anyone?)

Besides, the prologue is f-ing interesting. I didn't find it 'tedious' at all, I wanted to know what happened next, and I wanted to know where they set me loose after the prologue. So you learn, and you adapt, and I like the way they did it to be honest.

Maybe they could have had Geralt practice on a dummy or two outside the tent where you start, show the basic movies and what not. Even then, people would still have trouble, because in all seriousness, you absolutely cannot teach someone to adapt to flow of the combat in this game. Trial by fire, it's the only way.
 

Snowalker

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TheIronRuler said:
Snowalker said:
Well, you see, this is a AAA PC *only* game, so PC gamers have to defend it, because AAA games just aren't coming around as often as they used to.

Or at least thats their train of thought. I like the game, its not the second coming of PC gaming, but its good so... yeah.
It won't be {C exclusive for long.
It'll be coming to Xbox in some time
And the two ninjas have been here for some time.


Seriously, people stop quoting me saying its coming to Xbox, I highly doubt it, cause they said the same damn thing with the last witcher.
 

Worr Monger

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Danceofmasks said:
I have videos on youtube showing off my style .. and frankly, if I have to use the pause menu I'd be too embarassed to upload them.
What do you use to record them? I tried Fraps, but the frame rate was just awful.
 

Caligulove

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Been watching a walkthrough of it, since Im nowhere near having a PC able to run the game effectively. From what I've seen I definitely like the combat. Though definitely a lot of pre-battle prep. That is to say that the person doing the walkthrough does a lot of prep and a lot of alchemy/potions before doing anything with battles.

Compared what Ive seen to the original from '07 and I think the sequel improved in just about every way possible. Not to mention the environments! good god, I would love to see every RPG I play look like that. "Traditional" fantasy RPG stuff like the setting never really interests me, part of why I passed over Dragon Age, despite the BioWare pedigree- but Witcher 2 definitely seems like a game I could get into. Oh that and Im surprised Fox News isnt all over the game, yet. Especially considering there are actual whores to sleep with in very NSFW cutscenes
 

Gildan Bladeborn

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It isn't a question that the "tutorial" is (or was, the balance has been changed as of the latest patch and some of the mechanics of swordplay itself have been tweaked) difficult, or that the game doesn't do a particularly good job about making things obvious - if you're used to the beginning of a game holding your hand and telling you what to do and when to do it every step of the way, while placing you in situations where it's practically impossible to fail, it's going to feel like the developers have this personal vendetta against you. Unobtrusive little pop-ups that appear from time to time throughout the prologue and whenever you first do/encounter certain things like critical effects or your various signs do not "effective teachers" make.

The counter arguments that all the required information is already there and that the game simply leaves it up to you to experiment with the tools in your arsenal to discover what works are all well and good, but they don't render complaints about the "lack of a proper tutorial" invalid, as the game absolutely lacks a "proper tutorial". In point of fact it doesn't have a tutorial at all - it has a prologue, some tips that display, and a journal to peruse that reiterates the information covered in the manual.

What brings the animosity to the table isn't the claim that it's difficult (it can be, especially if you don't know what you are doing and have been conditioned by other games not to try things unless they tell you to specifically), but rather the assertion generally made by the people complaining about the difficulty that, by not having a tutorial in any real sense, the developers have done something wrong. Cries of "It's terrible game design!" or "In this day and age it's inexcusable not to have a tutorial or expect us to read things!" and of course "Here, go watch this Extra Credits video all about how it's terrible game design!" tend to irritate folks like me somewhat because while I understand that the more organic process of learning how to play a game by having it actively teach you is "the done thing" these days, I hail from an era where the thought of sitting down to something without reading the instructions and expecting success was bloody stupid.

The problem with tutorials is that if you're good at video games, they're invariably torture - the only ones I've ever felt were justified were the sort that delved into peripheral functions of extremely complicated interfaces, and by that I mean space simulators; I've never encountered any that were fun. They tend to break immersion, shovel in contrived circumstances, and serve as this barrier we have to slog through before games let us actually play them for reals. A brief pop-up or reminder should absolutely be enough for anyone familiar with the controls who has any experience at all with modern gaming to know everything they need to about the game, and there are difficulty settings for a reason.

I fired up the prologue for The Witcher 2, and to my unfettered delight I was not being put through a series of paces wherein my abilities would be trickled back into my possession while the game explained to me how to play it like I was particularly thick, I was actually asked to do stuff that was fun. And this is the bone of contention - it's okay to point out that the game doesn't go out of its way to teach you how to play it, because that's absolutely true. Suggestions that the lack of a hand-holding introduction to the mechanics make the game shit though are going to fall on deaf ears - it's not a failing of the game when you fail because you were expecting to be coddled at the start, it's simply an old-school design philosophy that a lot of people found refreshing.

We don't actually care if you like the game or not.

Hate it for all I give a crap, just hate it because you didn't find it enjoyable - if you haven't played the game, you can just shut the hell up: you don't get to have an opinion on whether or not the game was good, because you don't know if the game is good or not, you didn't PLAY it (you may freely suggest that it looks or sounds good/bad/interesting/uninteresting, and that would be valid and entirely appropriate and nobody would argue with your conclusions because they're subjective impressions that you have formed).

If, like Yahtzee, you played the game, didn't enjoy it, but then went on to make a comedy video wherein you just made shit up about it instead of pointing out the real flaws (of which there are a fair few, just sitting there ripe for mockery!) because you gave up midway through chapter 1 and therefore didn't have enough material to nitpick, it shouldn't be surprising when like a million people show up to point out you were doing more than simply exaggerating for comedic effect (i.e., lying).

And if you reflexively chimed in to defend Yahtzee's ridiculous claims that were based on falsehoods, having yourself not played the game in any way, you can especially shut the hell up, seriously.
[hr]
As for all the animosity generated by the official review here on the Escapist, people mostly took umbrage with the fact that Greg Tito spent the bulk of it complaining that the tutorial was hard, didn't mention all sorts of things that were major selling points, and then assigned what amounts to an "eh, it's okay I guess" score to what is quite clearly a labor of love and an excellent game (only the "lunatic fringe" were suggesting that he's just bad at games, his complaints were valid enough but the dispute goes back to whether the conscious decision to not hold players hands is evidence of bad design worth significantly reducing the 'score'). But what really riled up the fans is that Greg had earlier given Dragon Age II, a game that even people who enjoyed it (I include myself in that number) won't dispute was quite clearly deeply flawed and redolent with lazy design choices and re-used assets, he gave that game a perfect score, suggesting that Dragon Age II was what all other RPGs aspired to be.

The mind literally boggles - the disparity between "this is the second coming" for DA2, the obvious cash grab with a rushed out the door development cycle, and "buy it when it hits the bargain bins, maybe" for The Witcher 2 quite literally exceeds my ability to reasonably address while remaining civil, so I'll turn to the One Sentence Review section of Something Awful's Video Game Article which sums up each game quite concisely (and in one sentence - truth in advertising!):

One Sentence Reviews said:
Dragon Age II
An embodiment of lazy, aim-for-the-middle design with uneven writing and the most hilarious illusion of choice in an RPG to date; this made me double check to make sure this branch of BioWare won't come anywhere near Mass Effect 3 or Star Wars: The Old Republic. 4/10


The Witcher 2
If you were wondering where all the heart, creativity, painstaking detail, variety, and meaningful dialog that was supposed to be in Dragon Age 2 wandered off to, it's here, only without any of the useful UI or clearly communicated gameplay concepts. 9/10
 

Loonerinoes

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SuperChurl said:
It's Dragon Age 2's hilarious negative overreaction in reverse.

Remember: opinions must be polarized! There's no such thing as under-par game with moderate improvements, or an ambitious game with mild flaws. Everything is either an unprecedented disaster slapped together by uncaring media conglomerates and goddamn Satan; or the magnum opus of a generation, zenith of quality and integrity--so ingenious that to not appreciate it means there must be something wrong with you.
Spot...freaking...on!
 

infohippie

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Because if those of us who liked it stay quiet, CD Projekt may only hear the criticism, and the next Witcher game will turn out like Dragon Age 2. And that would be a travesty.


Lizmichi said:
LordRoyal said:
It was lore from the novels. In the novels monsters are damaged properly with silver and humans with steel.
Yea but how many have read the books? The context is gone from the game if you haven't read the books. It wasn't like that in the first game so why add it now? What works with books might not work with a game.
Um... Huh? It absolutely was like that in the first game. You didn't get a silver sword at first, only a steel one, so the relatively weak monsters you fought were rather hard to kill. When you finally get a silver sword it makes fighting monsters so much easier! Plus it allows depth - in TW2 you lose your silver sword as part of a certain scene, and you have to be really careful about monsters until you can manage to replace it.