more like, sexist doesnt matter one bit, what matter if its a good character or notLifeCharacter said:So what you're saying is it depends on the context? That thing I just said? And that, apparently, you get to judge whether a game is improved by something or not.
EVA has a lot of traits that are considered sexist, but it only makes her character better
Message:LifeCharacter said:Not intentionally including a message doesn't mean there's no message. That developers might (somehow) just be unintentionally designing women with sexualization as a top priority says plenty.
And, not having seen or read Twilight, maybe? I mean I've heard it has plenty of horrible messages, but I can't speak towards whether it objectifies its characters.
A message is a discrete unit of communication intended by the source for consumption by some recipient or group of recipients.
Communication:
is the activity of conveying information through the exchange of ideas, feelings, intentions, attitudes, expectations, perceptions or commands, as by speech, non-verbal gestures, writings, behavior and possibly by other means such as electromagnetic, chemical or physical phenomena.
Communicating with others involves three primary steps:
Thought: First, information exists in the mind of the sender. This can be a concept, idea, information, or feeling.
Encoding: Next, a message is sent to a receiver in words or other symbols.
Decoding: Lastly, the receiver translates the words or symbols into a concept or information that a person can understand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication
if the sender has no intent or thought of the message you say their are trying to convey, it violates the first step of communication, is not communication, and if there is no communication, theres no message
so unless you can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that developers are sexist and they intent to communicate this sexism in their games, you are literally complaining over nothing
again they convey no messageLifeCharacter said:Okay? Congratulations on being able to look at a pretty picture and say it's pretty. You do know that there's more to art than that though, right? And I doubt all the people who dislike the sexualized female designs just dislike it because of the messages they convey.yes i actually think its possible to judge a piece of art separe from its message, thats why people can appreciate something like the birth of a nation
and if you hate games with sexualized characters for reasons that have nothing to do with sexualization and more to do with the merits of the game AS A GAME, thats all fair criticism
bad criticism:
this character wears a skimpy suit
good criticism:
the character that wear a skimpy suit is poorly developed and his/her dialogue is a joke
i treawomen equally in real life all the time, that doesnt mean i support your point of view does it?LifeCharacter said:You seem pretty confident that anyone daring to say "hey, let's treat women better/equally" will be regarded in the same way as prohibitionists.i bet prohobitionists argued something similar, dont assume history will be fond of you, none of us knows how we will be remembered
is not the message, is the actions that could generate contempt in the future
you havent but you have insulted developer for how they decide to portray fictitious beingsLifeCharacter said:I'm not rallying for the rights of non-existent people. I'm rallying for my preferences in entertainment and my right to criticize what I don't like and ask for what I want. When have I ever said "virtual women have rights too!" or anything in that regard?heres the thing, the fundamental flaw in your argument, you are rallying for the rights of virtual, non-existent women, remember how everyone laughed at PETA when they were protesting agaisnt Pokemon and Super Meat Boy?
thats fine and amazing, please understand, im not agaisnt you as a customers, ive told you many times now to give your feedback to develoers, im only critizing the shaming and insulting of developersLifeCharacter said:How about asking artists to compromise their work because I'm their damn customer and I don't give money to people who make something I don't want? If they feel like they can disregard my patronage then good for them, but I'm still not giving them my money and I'm going to tell them why in case they feel like making something I'll want later on.women IN REAL LIFE, in most western countries are treated roughtly the same, they have the same rights and duties as men, if you see some actual injustice where real life women are treated poorly based only on their gender, fantastic, protest agaisnt that, i will stand by your side, but asking artists to compromise their work so they fit your political views? no, absolutely not
sharing your tastes without insulting people is a thing you can do
are you honestly saying that a character is good or bad depending on what they are wearing?LifeCharacter said:And you've still not told me who gets to decide what makes a piece of art better. I think designing men and women to have equal levels of sexualization (either they all get real armor or they all get sexualized armor) would make a work better. It'd better fit whatever style they're going for to have everyone dressed similarly and it'd look fucking interesting for once. So... hooray for my worthwhile criticism.in my opinion any criticism that wont make a piece of art better is a silly and worthless criticism
you find a different piece of art, there are games that have miraculously evaded the political correctness hurricane, play those if the other games offend you so much, im not shaming the creator of piss christ why should you?LifeCharacter said:And what happens when you're not entertained because you don't like seeing an entire gender (possibly your own gender) reduced to helpless eyecandy? Oh, right, you shut up because your opinion doesn't matter for some reason.i think you are confused, feminism overall is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion of video games, very few people use games to make a political statement, most people design games to entertain, to indulge in the escapism, to create any number of fantasies in any sort of abstract or contrived universes
you are attempting to shame someone into submission and threaten his/her freedom of speechLifeCharacter said:If they behave like sexists I'll call them sexists and whatever else I feel fits. Granted I usually don't. I usually just say that something seems pretty sexist and that I dislike the design on its own, but got to keep my incredibly important freedom of speech open.fine, dont buy the freakin' game, is that easy
or you know, show them your opinion without shaming them, insulting them, calling them sexist, any stuff like that
also consider the following: the creator and his work are 2 separate things
holy cowLifeCharacter said:Kind of. There's a reason I added the whole "he designs women to appeal to the shallow male gaze just makes his sexism contemptible" part."The creator treats men and women differently, that makes him pretty sexist."
so, if im attracted to women, but im not attracted to men, am i a sexist?
are you honestly freakin' implying heterosexuality is inherently wrong?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.860239-Core-Gamers-Mostly-Male-Casual-Gamers-Mostly-Female-Says-NPDLifeCharacter said:Got it, so it's perfectly okay to disparage a group of people so long as they're a minority. What a wonderful sentiment. I can certainly see why the percentages aren't any different though, considering how adamant people seem to make women as uncomfortable as possible playing "non-casual" games.if you are going to use the "audience" argument then your whole point dies there, since around 75%-80% of all non-casual gamers, atleast on PC, are male
those are not my words
im saying, if you are going to argue art should be made to please the market, isnt it doing so already?
well yes shaming people for the content of their art and not their merits is a bad thingLifeCharacter said:That backlash was criticism and people saying they didn't like something. His boss, deciding that the opinions of potential customers was more important than one artist's barely-existent integrity and desire to design women as sexy first, took the criticism to heart and chose to change it. How horrible that people managed to change someone's view of something.the reason why his boss ordered him to change the design was because of the pointless backlash it generated, again from people who just want to censor what they dont like