Why Derivative Game Design Doesn't Matter

BrawlMan

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mechanics take off the AAA-industry comes in and perfects them.
That rarely ever happens. The AAA either only barely polishes it or makes things worse. Yahtzee talked about this when it came to Returnal being a rouge-lite AAA game.

The AAA sector should be safe, but polished. Where you are basically pretty sure you'll get a decent experience at worst when picking up a AAA game. If you want to try something new, try an indie.
Most indie games are more polished than a majority of your standard AAA games.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Most indie games are more polished than a majority of your standard AAA games.
I mean more polished in terms of how the innovation works. The way Blizzard used to take ideas from other games, and refine them to be easier to play and more refined in how they work.
 

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I mean more polished in terms of how the innovation works. The way Blizzard used to take ideas from other games, and refine them to be easier to play and more refined in how they work.
The AAA doesn't even get that anymore. That stopped being a thing around late 7th generation. The indie and AA have been more innovative by either going back to the old-school fundamentals and refining them better or further. Or when they are doing something completely new, most of the developers make sure the game is fun (which is usually the intent but now always) and has some type of replay value, or moving the medium forward in terms of art design, character, storytelling, or all of the above.
 

CastletonSnob

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Adding to my last post, derivative game design isn't anything new either. Remember the 90s, when Doom clones were everywhere? The mid to late 2000s, when God of War clones were everywhere? (A lot of the older ZP reviews have Yahtzee say, "Like God of War but"). Or the 2010s, when Dark Souls clones were everywhere?
 

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Adding to my last post, derivative game design isn't anything new either. Remember the 90s, when Doom clones were everywhere? The mid to late 2000s, when God of War clones were everywhere? (A lot of the older ZP reviews have Yahtzee say, "Like God of War but"). Or the 2010s, when Dark Souls clones were everywhere?
We already covered this back on the first two pages. Kind of redundant at this point.
 

BrawlMan

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Yeah, failing to see how more and more live service shit shutting down is a problem.
I get where Nick is coming from where these projects could have been repurposed for a single player game or a better multiplayer. The fact that the people on the lower end of the totem pole may lose their jobs, because the service of shutting down sucks. Yet, I'm not going to cry much for these losses. Aside from the lower end people losing their developer job. That's a problem that's still big within this industry and needs to stop.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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I get where Nick is coming from where these projects could have been repurposed for a single player game or a better multiplayer. For the fact that the people on the lower end of the totem pole may lose their jobs, because the service of shutting down. Yet, I'm not going to cry much for these losses. Aside from the lower end people losing their developer job. That's a problem that's still big within this industry and needs to stop.
They can be hopefully scooped up by studios that don’t practice gaas crap.
 
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BrawlMan

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A character design trend that's been happening for quite a few years now is copying Gwen Stacy's (unintentional) haircut from Spider-Verse (2018). You know what I'm talking about. The hairstyle ain't exactly new, but lots of games aimed at the younger crowd usually give bad ass hero girls this type of hair style. Sometimes villains get them too. I don't exactly have a problem with it, but I do know one VTuber is already sick of this design trend. She was livestreaming Hi-Fi Rush at the time. Goes to show you how strong of an influence Spider-Verse has across through a lot of media.

Spider Gwen (2018)




Tawana Bandicoot (2020)




Diva (2020)




Peppermint (2023)

 
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BrawlMan

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Another thought just occurred to me. I find it strange and ironic, that Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z, is the last Greek era God of War clone to come out. All the way back in 2014.

 

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With another genre in oversaturation and on its way out, "live services". This is another case of when derivative game design does matter. Especially when they're all the same bland and scummy bullshit. Speaking of which...

 

ralfy

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I read somewhere that there are only a few types of games, and new ones involve these and reskinned.
 

CriticalGaming

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A character design trend that's been happening for quite a few years now is copying Gwen Stacy's (unintentional) haircut from Spider-Verse (2018). You know what I'm talking about. The hairstyle ain't exactly new, but lots of games aimed at the younger crowd usually give bad ass hero girls this type of hair style. Sometimes villains get them too. I don't exactly have a problem with it, but I do know one VTuber is already sick of this design trend. She was livestreaming Hi-Fi Rush at the time. Goes to show you how strong of an influence Spider-Verse has across through a lot of media.
I don't know if I would say this is a Spider-Verse specific thing. I think it's simply a testament to how powerful good character design can be as a whole. There are reasons why characters are so instantly recognizable, to the point where nobody has to really know what Pokemon is to know what Pikachu is, or who Mario, or Link, or Kratos, or even the characters from Mortal Kombat that are the exact same guy with a different color.

Spider-Gwen just happened to hit that young-hip-look that triggered a massive response. But on the flip side of that, those other characters you posted merely copy the hairstyle without understanding good character design. Those follow ups are a mess of color mismash, or a lack of character in itself as if they think the hairstyle alone can make a character.
 

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I don't know if I would say this is a Spider-Verse specific thing. I think it's simply a testament to how powerful good character design can be as a whole. There are reasons why characters are so instantly recognizable, to the point where nobody has to really know what Pokemon is to know what Pikachu is, or who Mario, or Link, or Kratos, or even the characters from Mortal Kombat that are the exact same guy with a different color.
It's most definitely is a Spider-Verse specific thing, and Gwen herself especially. Like I said before, the hairstyle ain't exactly new, but before that movie came out, almost no video games had that hairstyle aside from certain characters in League of Legends or in their alternate costumes. The Tawana Bandicoot you see right before you, isn't even the same one. She's from an alternate dimension. Guess what? Multiverse shenanigans occur in Crash Bandicoot 4. There's definitely that influence.


Spider-Gwen just happened to hit that young-hip-look that triggered a massive response. But on the flip side of that, those other characters you posted merely copy the hairstyle without understanding good character design. Those follow ups are a mess of color mismash, or a lack of character in itself as if they think the hairstyle alone can make a character.
Tawana's design is okay, but they went too extra on it. Though most Crash fans don't have a problem with her looks. I will defend Diva's and Peppermint's design. At least with Streets of Rage 4, it had been in development since late 2017. So that case is more of a coincidence.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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Asking studios to stop chasing old, worn-out trends in the hopes of miraculously usurping the market leader? Might as well ask the ocean to stop making your feet wet.
 
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