Why do PC Gamers Oppose Using a Controller?

[fwiffo]

I've got a xbox controller for my pc. Also have an arcade style joystick, along with a cheap flightstick (for tie fighter).

Do I win something? Please, say I win something.

 

[Mausthemighty]

I'm not used to playing with gamepads, but can play with them. The games I play however, like RTS's, RPG's and FPS's are best when played with a mouse and keyboard. Sports games and racing games are better to play with a gamepad. For Space sims and flight sims I use a HOTAS config.

 

[SquidSponge]

Use the right tool for the right job. I don't try to knock a nail in with a spanner, I pick up the hammer. Therefore:
Flight sim -> Joystick & keyboard
Racing -> Gamepad (or steering wheel if you've invested)
Anything else -> K&M

And it just so happens that I hate racing games so I never bothered with a 'pad.

From a historic point of view, truly old games were often simpler and didn't need many controls (see Earthbound & FFVI era - 4 direction buttons, "use", "back", "menu" - anything else is gravy).

In modern games K&M is considered the superior choice for FPS in particular due to the twitch-aim responsiveness (which isn't to say 'pads can't twitch aim, but it's much easier with a mouse). It is also better for top-down strategy 'cuz mouse (duh), and clearly anything where a lot of different keybinds would be useful benefits from a keyboard too. Saves on ridiculous crap like Mass Effect 2 having "sprint", "take cover", "break cover", "vault cover" and "use" all bound to one button (which wouldn't have been so bad if they'd allowed PC users to separate at least some of these). This, incidentally, is the main source of my resentment towards gamepads - PC ports' interfaces are horribly clunky and dumbed down "streamlined" because devs can't be bothered to fix the interface to fit the much more powerful and versatile K&M setup. Which, admittedly, is more an issue of lazy devs ports than a legitimate problem with 'pads themselves.

The only real advantages of a 'pad is that it is compact (which is why they're used for consoles) and the analog sticks/buttons are good for variable accelerator control and fine steering. These, in my opinion, do not begin to make up for the loss of versatility, twitch responsiveness, number of keybinds, etc. save in a very small selection of games (ie the relatively small racing genre, which I don't enjoy anyway). In short, gamepads are a necessary evil of consoles, but PC users aren't forced to put up with them.

 

[GoaThief]

Right, because if you design a multi platform game you're going to base it around a k/m input method? Err, no. Also, if you believe game design and implementation into a build is exactly the same for each input method, and is as simple as flicking a switch you really need to get educated.

Try this in my little example of Metro 2033; move the mouse along the X axis a few times. Stop and move it up and down the Y. Now move it diagonally, notice anything odd? You should. This is because the game was designed around a controller input and m/k an after thought which was never implemented correctly. Compare that to something like Quake Live and having direct input selected, do the same there. The difference is huge.

I don't believe I mentioned any kind of auto aim or assist anywhere, would you like to point it out please? Ditto mouse smoothing.

Interesting aside you're probably not aware of either, there are quite a few console shooters that don't have any kind of aim assist. Shocker, I know. :O /roll eyes

I'm sorry, I was under the impression you knew what you are talking about. What you are describing in Metro 2033 is mouse smoothing or mouse interpolation. Used by developers that support a wide range of hardware some of which may be older input devices (ball mice) such as say the Ukraine where most of 4A games developers are from. It's in your own mind you are creating this fantasy that what you are seeing is pure support for controllers, which is laughable. Especially from the likes of 4A you know the former GSC employees. I guess you are right though, you didn't mention mouse smoothing, but only because you didn't know what it was, or how to turn it off apparently.

Also nice assumptions but I am a multi-platform gamer, I don't think I have ever encountered a console FPS that didn't have auto aim or aim assist on by default, and most often with no option to even turn it off or lower the intensity of the aim assist. So how about some examples from your massive list?

The problem with Metro is certainty not mouse smoothing, which essentially averages the input of a ball mouse out as we both agree, right? The problem with Metro is the odd ratio between the X and Y sensitivity, which exists for controllers not mice, and how the game applies huge negative acceleration especially when moving in a diagonal plane. Common practice when designing around a controller and you need to make sure your algorithms handle it properly and disable/correct for mice. Metro was never going to be a PC exclusive at any point in it's existence so I'm not sure why you're inferring that to be the case either. There is absolutely no way to change it to boot unless you know something it seems the entire internet does not? Feel free to share.

As for a list of games with no or switchable assist (and I didn't say it was massive for the record, "Quite a few" - a noteable amount but not the majority);

Crysis
Turok
Quake 3
Bad Company
Socom
Metroid Prime
Black Ops
MAG
Quake Arena Arcade
Left 4 Dead
Team Fortress 2
Counter Strike
Half Life 2

Is that enough?

 

[klaynexas3]

I don't understand why some people say that a mouse and keyboard are more precise. I mean, yes, the mouse on its own is, but an analog stick is much more precise than any WASD movements. Sadly, it'd be kind of impossible to combine an analog stick for movie, keyboard for all your different macros, and the mouse for aiming and whatnot.

But yeah, it depends on the genre. It'd be awful trying to play something like Kingdom Hearts or God of War on a mouse and keyboard, but it'd also be awful to use a controller to play an RTS.

 

[kasperbbs]

I use s controller for fighting games, slashers like dmc and sometimes for racing games when i'm not too lazy to plug it in, because it's more comfortable that way, but everything else works better with M & K. And it's not because i was brought up using only m & k, i started gaming with a playstation and got my first PC several years later. It took me a while before i got used to playing fps with a mouse, but once i did playing them with a joystick felt like a pain in the ass.

 

[Greg White]

Can't say I dislike using a 360 controller. Some games just handle better with it for whatever reason(especially platformers) while others work better with a mouse and keyboard.

Adapt and overcome is the name of the game.

 

[GoaThief]

/lots of stuff

I think the easiest thing to do is reconsider who it is I'm exactly addressing in that post. I probably have not conveyed that exactly well, so I can only hold up my hand and apologise for quite possibly wasting your time as well as mine. I was making the points within the context of this thread, and at a particular group who hold open contempt and oddly unbridled hatred for anything other than a mouse and keyboard. It is not addressed at people who simply prefer a m/k and have no qualms with what other people choose to use as an input method. I have no objections to that whatsoever and why should I? Hope that clears it up.

.

Anyone who thinks a controller is better for FPS by the way... aim assist. Enough said.

I play the vast majority of FPS with a controller these days as they're made with them in mind. Borderlands, Metro, Mirror's Edge, Bioshock, Duke Nukem Forever, the list goes on... most are borderline broken, some even outright like Metro with a mouse and keyboard due to weird sensitivity issues and odd XY ratios. I use a HDTV too so there's that also.

Sure, I'm much better with a mouse and keyboard and wouldn't play a hardcore multiplayer title without one but for the rest of the time a controller is the better option for multiple reasons. To be brutally honest I'm put off if a game doesn't support a controller and will think hard over if it's worth it

With sensitivity and x/y ratios games should typically have settings so you can customise them. I get what you mean though. Also in regards to Mirror's Edge, I prefer a controller for that game. It's based more on movement than aiming and the actual shooting isn't the main aspect of the game.

I sometimes will use a controller for FPS too (e.g. playing local split screen games). I don't think it's unplayable, just not as good and not an optimum scheme for aiming. For movement it's great.

Just as well for you controller support is kind of a standard these days.

"Should" being the operative word! Haha, if only those options were available but the vast majority do not, we're lucky to have ansio options in some games so I don't hold much hope for things to change.

I actually find advanced movement from a first person perspective easier with a m/k, love me some defrag, jump maps and first person platforming:


Nearly all that stuff would be impossible with a controller, except for the double jumps but they'd be very linear and without bunny hop.

holy shit, dat FOV, hugeeee. normally i can't stand fps platforming but that isn't as dreadful as some games i've played. still that person is pretty good. also i agree with your first post about a lot of things adding up in that equation


OT: personally i believe most "twitch" shooters and just MMO's and RTS's in general are better with KB + M on computer, you're probably going to get your shit rocked if you use a controller online vs other KB + M users, and those genres/games are pretty fucking huge on the PC, therefore, unneeded superiority issues.

I have a wired 360 controller that works great for some games that i prefer a controller for, and i don't see the problem with using whatever is most comfortable for you.

Haha, that's me by the way and the fov is 110. Have binds on 1, 2 and 3 that change it on the fly. 110 is my preferred/default for movement and general fraggery and is on 2, 1 is for maps with long range requirements or I'm being all sneaky and playing under an alias as my movement and fov kind of give the game away to some. 3 is 140 or 135 IIRC which can be useful when moving fast, especially on corners and you need to keep an eye on someone camping their sorry arse off. That one is probably my least used but it can come in handy.

Possible useless exposition ahoy! Maybe I should have said that before the paragraph, never mind as it's too late now.

 

[Zipa]

Generalizing a bit aren't we OP? I use a controller for some games (Skyrim to name one) on the PC but the mouse + KB for other games (FPS , RTS ect) . That and big picture mode exists for Steam so there must be more than a few people who do the same, after all Valve wouldn't of bothered if it wasn't worth it.


Its just personal preference.

 

[AnthrSolidSnake]

I don't know. I made a very similar topic on this not too long ago. Everyone's answers amounted to "Because it's better to aim with. But use what you want." I hated that answer to be honest. It's not a matter of what is supposedly better, it was a question of "Yeah, so why does that mean I HAVE to use a mouse." If you feel it gives you an advantage, why would you go around telling everyone to use it? Wouldn't you want that supposed advantage? I even mentioned that I used a gamepad with Planetside 2 when my keyboard was broken (I used an on screen keyboard to search the web), and I noticed very little to not distinct advantage with using a mouse over the controller. I've used both controllers and KB/M for years, so I'm pretty skilled at using both.

Anyway, I use both. Every single player game that supports it, I go controller, but if I choose to play that game online or another game online, I use KB/M.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Periodically I see people taking about using a controller to play PC games. Sometimes I see people who prefer to use a controller but more often, I see people complaining about the fact that they need a controller to play in correctly. I never really understood why so many PC gamers have a problem with playing their games using a controller. I remember back in the early to mid 90s, when owning a joystick was practically a requirement for PC gaming. Owning a usb controller seems to be the modern day equivalent of a joystick, in the sense that so many games (mostly ports) require once for the best gaming experience. So why do you feel/think there's more opposition from PC gamers to using a controller, than there was to using a joystick?

This question was answered when the Shadowrun FPS game was released. It had servers that had cross platform 360/PC play. PC players stomped out 360 players every single time. For online shooters on the PC using a controller is a moronic thing to do. Any other kind of game, even shooters that don't have online play, PC gamers don't really mind using a controller.


Its a bit of a misconception that PC players HATE controllers. We don't. Look at a lot of PC games coming our recently. Besides strategy and shooter games, more and more PC games are borderline requiring a controller to play. Guacamelee and Mercenary Kings are just 2 examples. Sleeping Dogs and Dark Souls, etc.

It's just the logical choice to use keyboard and mouse for online shooters on the PC.

 

[Strazdas]

I am a PC gamer.
I tried using controller. I will never use controller. Keyboard and mouse is far superior control device. It is also the native control device, so if you port the game, port it correctly and make it work with mouse and keyboard. and i WILL scorn you for making a half assed port that ins uncontrollable.
Controller is an extra option some people like. but thats all it is, an extra option and you should never need it. Like kinect.

Also how dare they not allow me freely control the camera with a mouse while i am driving. This stuff was dead in 2004 when san andreas did it pretty much perfectly. and yet some games still lock you out of camera controls.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

Controllers are awful, that's why.

There's a reason almost every single console game has aim assist. There's a reason why all the cross platform server experiments were never put into effect. Even average PC players were able to beat some of the best console players in the world. Because keyboard/mouse is pin point accuracy and perfect control whereas a controller has ironically practically no actual fine control to it. Why anyone would want to hobble themselves, is beyond me.

 

[wetfart]

It entirely depends on the game type. RTS or FPS? Give me a mouse and keyboard. It's what I'm comfortable with, know and love.

However, there are some games, like Saints Row, where I find the controls just work better with the controller. Maybe it's because the controls work best with using a controller because they weren't intended for a keyboard. Maybe it's because I'm just horrible at driving (Break? Nah, I'll slow down by ramming into other things!) But I prefer to use a controller.

So I don't have anything against controllers. It just depends on what I'm doing.

 

[R3dF41c0n]

I have more experience gaming on PC and I prefer a mouse and keyboard. However, if the game clearly controls better with a controller (like platformers and fighting games) I will user a controller. This is the same reason I use a joystick for flight games and space combat titles.

I'm not opposed to using a controller I just prefer one input over the other.

 

[Rattja]

Hm this again eh?

First think about this: What can you do with a KB+M that you CAN'T do with a controller?

Then think about this: What can you do with a controller that you CAN'T do with a KB+M?

Make two lists, compare them and I think you'll have your answer.

 

[Omnicide]

This level of precision is not possible with a controller.

Mouses in any game that require precision (shooters, RPGs, etc) have the advantage of there being some kind of direct ratio between mouse movement and reticle movement. Controllers in such titles, instead of having a movement ratio instead have a reticle acceleration, which is a problem if you at scoping into that headshot and overaccelerate the target, hence why aim-assist exists.

I played through Skyrim, Mass Effect, Saints Row, etc on my computer with a mouse, and I thought the experiences there were stellar.

I also bought the Assassin's Creed series on a steam sale, and no matter how I mapped the keys I found the first game unplayable. That's when I plugged in a 360 controller and had a much better time. Considering the changed control schemes of later games, they may be playable with a keyboard but I haven't tried.

Platformers (2D and 3D) and fighters would be better with a controller. Someone mentioned driving games as well. Anything else, though, would just be a better and more in-depth experience with a mouse and keyboard.

 

[identifier]

Mouse trumps stick. Stick trumps WASD. Keyboard has more buttons! Extra pair of arms would be handy. Then I could use all of them, all the time, at the same time.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Controllers do unpleasant things to my hands and I find them very imprecise. Beyond that I don't give a fuck.

 

[thehermit2]

I'm a PC gamer, almost exclusively nowadays, and I have a definite bias against console controllers. I can think of three ways PC controls are "better" than a console controller:

1) The mouse lets you control both direction and sensitivity to a high level of precision. Not many people run Photoshop with a controller instead of a mouse, and I know which one I want aiming my sniper scope in-game.

2) The keyboard keys can in most cases be rebound as needed, which is a little less important now than it was a decade ago before keyboard layouts became more standardized, but still comes up frequently.

3) The comparatively limited number of controls on a console controller versus that of a keyboard means that PC game controls do not have to serve multiple functions. This is most noticeable with games that have been ported from console to PC, although as developers put more thought into simplifying controls for simultaneously console/PC developed games, this has also become less of a problem.

Ultimately these biases mean that I just don't spend much time with a console controller in my hand, and using one is awkward and unintuitive. I can own the field playing Left 4 Dead on a PC; on a console I just embarrass myself.