It's games like the Tales series that I really hate. It's hard to take a game seriously when the characters are all teenagers pretending to be adults. Japan obviously didn't get nuked enough.
Except the two leads were a ***** and a moron. You can do a fun drinking game with FF13 were you take a shot every time Lightning punches someone with little context or Snow calls himself a hero. And if you really want to get hammered, you can do a shot every time Hope or Vanille grunts or moans. These are terrible characters and are representative of the problem with JRPGs in the last 10 yrs. Awful dialogue + unlikeable characters = I don't care about the story because I'm being given no reason to care about what happens to these people.clockpenalty said:Kurenaino said:Or maybe, after playing a ton of JRPGs, people are just noticing trends and are voicing their opinions on the matter. Saying these accusations, as it were, are uninformed and baseless is, in and of itself, an uninformed and baseless statement. Have you ever played a JRPG? Then you'll know that a lot of them feature similar elements, twat waffle teens and cutscenes galore included. Like any genre, you're going to have common elements that are related to other games in the genre, that's how the genre is formed in the first place. Sure, you get a few that rise above the rest, but as the normal curve so aptly dictated, the vast majority will be nothing short of mediocrity.clockpenalty said:If you read the reasons people are giving (sweeping generalisations about spunky teengers and long cutscenes etc) you'll understand that they are uninformed and baseless. Like any meme, people are just imbibing and repeating what is currently 'cool' without using their brains.
1. You cannot generalise based on the lower 80% of trashy content, or all WRPGs would be dreary DnD nonsense with busty barmaids and heroes called 'th'tharigan the mighty, slayer of the warg'lathran'
2. The upper 20% does NOT fall into this category. Even the much hated Final Fantasy 13 *deliberately* attempted to subvert this by including an emo-teen as the most useless party member of all, and incluing a stoic, absolutely non-bubbly female and an unshaven muscleman as the leads. Yet somehow, the fog of bias cannot look beyond two minor party members. Even the token bubbly girl turned out to have a completely original role as far as those tropes go.
The point is, since the tide has turned against anime and japanese stuff in general, they stand no chance against the screaming horde baying for J-developer blood. Even the gaming press is on this bandwagon right now. My advice to them is to re-align their priorities and work on the domestic market.... the west has nothing but hate for them now
well... ff13 was not held up as an example of the 'good' jrpgs, although the battle system was excellent. It had a crappy story and is pretty annoying because, being the most visible, JRPG haters can easily pick on it and generaliseShagdawg said:Except the two leads were a ***** and a moron. You can do a fun drinking game with FF13 were you take a shot every time Lightning punches someone with little context or Snow calls himself a hero. And if you really want to get hammered, you can do a shot every time Hope or Vanille grunts or moans. These are terrible characters and are representative of the problem with JRPGs in the last 10 yrs. Awful dialogue + unlikeable characters = I don't care about the story because I'm being given no reason to care about what happens to these people.clockpenalty said:Kurenaino said:Or maybe, after playing a ton of JRPGs, people are just noticing trends and are voicing their opinions on the matter. Saying these accusations, as it were, are uninformed and baseless is, in and of itself, an uninformed and baseless statement. Have you ever played a JRPG? Then you'll know that a lot of them feature similar elements, twat waffle teens and cutscenes galore included. Like any genre, you're going to have common elements that are related to other games in the genre, that's how the genre is formed in the first place. Sure, you get a few that rise above the rest, but as the normal curve so aptly dictated, the vast majority will be nothing short of mediocrity.clockpenalty said:If you read the reasons people are giving (sweeping generalisations about spunky teengers and long cutscenes etc) you'll understand that they are uninformed and baseless. Like any meme, people are just imbibing and repeating what is currently 'cool' without using their brains.
1. You cannot generalise based on the lower 80% of trashy content, or all WRPGs would be dreary DnD nonsense with busty barmaids and heroes called 'th'tharigan the mighty, slayer of the warg'lathran'
2. The upper 20% does NOT fall into this category. Even the much hated Final Fantasy 13 *deliberately* attempted to subvert this by including an emo-teen as the most useless party member of all, and incluing a stoic, absolutely non-bubbly female and an unshaven muscleman as the leads. Yet somehow, the fog of bias cannot look beyond two minor party members. Even the token bubbly girl turned out to have a completely original role as far as those tropes go.
The point is, since the tide has turned against anime and japanese stuff in general, they stand no chance against the screaming horde baying for J-developer blood. Even the gaming press is on this bandwagon right now. My advice to them is to re-align their priorities and work on the domestic market.... the west has nothing but hate for them now
... my last thing before going is this. Just because a Canadian made it doesnt mean he didnt draw Scott Pilgrim in Manga...FreelanceButler said:I know we're spiralling horribly off topic here, but Scott Pilgrim isn't manga, it's a comic book. That was written in Canada. By a Canadian. And the game's a side-scrolling beat 'em up.scoober1111 said:FreelanceButler said:I think you'll find the words "love" and "hate" mean two different things.scoober1111 said:alright, you hate JRPG's but you have Scott Pilgrim as your avatar...FreelanceButler said:They're dull, samey, involve a lot of grinding and can drag on for quite a while.
But I love 'em all the same. Well, some of them.
What does a Scott Pilgrim avatar have to do with it, anyway?
well seeing how Scott Pilgrim is Manga and Japanese AND in a JRPG i think it has a lot to do with it.
But as someone else pointed out, Scott Pilgrim does throw out a Japan reference, be it to anime or game, every couple of minutes. I'll admit I forgot about that.
Uninspired art? I thought Western games were the ones that always used sci-fi grey apocalypse or medieval equipment.Archetypal_Maniac said:Un-inspired art and concepts. Over complex story archs making it seem like it was written by a child. Failure to follow the rule set of whatever universe, the immense amount of exceptions and loop holes applied by the characters contribute to the un-needed over complex ideas. In the end they end up being one big messy shit pile, no structure, no inspiration just another off the shelf generic boring waste of time. The cherry on top is the complete lack of charisma every character seems to suffer from.
i agree that type of drawing is shitty, as well as manga/anime/other names for that art style. typically, jrpg art is already vibrant, everyone has purple hair!!! its not that its dark and unhappy, its just that its a bad art style. could i do it well? no, but that doesnt mean its not bad, my cats look so bad its vomit worthy As stated, there are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part they fall into those categories, and i would rather not take risks when the flow of new western rpgs is good enough.Mr.Petey said:Yes I asked for some solid reasoning so here goes.crazyguy668 said:Mr.Petey said:As of late JRPGs have taken a vast amount of alternatives from turn-based combat. Plus I seem to recall a few western RPGS still have the same amount of grind element too. It's something that can't really be taken out of a role playing game, no matter how much we despise itcrazyguy668 said:because they suck ass!!!
seriously though, its the same turn based style, the same badly drawn teenager with purple hair, and the same giant grind every time. why would i play that when i can play an awesome western RPG?
hell,id rather play mw2 for 10 hours than any jrpg for 4 hours
OT however I agree with the subject and would like to see some concrete reasoning behind so many people hating it. I still get laughs and jokes made when I 'fess up to playing some of the lesser known ones "Aw another stoopid anime game!" and such. Not in a while since I've shut 'em up in regards how a good JRPG can be much deeper than a lot of mainstream titles, regardless of where they originate from
i dont mean just a little grind, i dont mind that. i mean the insane repetitive grind of JRPGS
you want concrete reasoning? it's a shitty art style, in nearly all of them a ginormous repetitive grind, in most of them the same crappy turn based gameplay, and if i want to play an RPG, why not play a western one, its everything done better. even a shitty one like two worlds beats nearly all jrpgs hands down.
There is exceptions to every rule, there are some jrpgs without any of those cept the same art style, but why take a risk and see if its true how it has a reasonable amount of grind and good combat, when i can get, for the same price, a western RPG which commonly are already better and not have some crap art?
Ok then, I don't really see a "shitty art" style as you so eloquently put it in some of my titles I own, such as:
Rogue Galaxy
Dark Chronicle
Star Ocean 1 2 and 3
Jeanne D'arc
These games all have variations of appearance and a unique style that makes them their own (apart from the first two that are cell shaded but are still in a class of their own)
What I'd see as "shitty" would be poorly drawn, not enough attention to detail in places where it would somewhat warrant it, badly drawn or out of place.
Even White Knight Chronicles and Final Fantasy XIII has a similar style on to some western RPGs in terms of the landscape and towns and they all look rich in colour and vibrant.
I think you're painting with too wide a brush here as yes Final Fantasy I through to VI did look very similar back in the NES/SNES days but it's come a long way since as I've mentioned earlier