Wouldn't say i hated them but i just can't be arsed with the teenage angst in them anymore & the controls just feel dated to me.
Why do people hate JRPGs?
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I enjoy the fact that a Bioware writing director is making this case that FFXIII is not an RPG: "You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character..." xDGrey Day for Elcia said:
Because 99% of games calling themselves JRPGs are animated movies that limit player interaction to clicking X on an attack. No player agency in the world, no affect on the story, no player made decisions in dialog, no player influence on the story, no character development beyond exactly what the developer wants--these are all things diametrically opposed to the roleplaying experience.
Final Fantasy: not an RPG.
Planescape Torment: an RPG.
(FFXIII has mechanics derived from P&P RPGs. It's an RPG. Whether it's a good one is up for debate haha.)
To me most of them are full of cliche/ sterotypes follow by the dull story and combat system. Before you tell me how like FPS or other gernes are also full cliche at least the gameplay or something else has some appeal to them but for most Jrpg there is nothing to back it up enough to make it a overall a good game.
The only RPG I've ever played is Civilization IV. On God Mode.
Role playing has never been my thing. :/
Role playing has never been my thing. :/
Going by the made up facts OP has presented, I would assume the main reason people hate 'JRPG's' is because they assume they're all the same as Final Fantasy which has, in my opinion, enjoyed a gradual decline in quality since...what was the really good SNES one? Is it III or VI? Anyway, they've got shittier through a combination of increased cutscene to gameplay ratios and the fact that Square Enix only seems capable of telling one story over and over again.
There are a lot of JRPG's I loved that no one ever really seems to talk about anymore, such as Illusion of Gaia, Tales of Symphonia and the .Hack series. Eternal Sonata was at least an interesting idea and probably would have been a good game, too, if it let me play for more than five minutes without wrestling the controls away from me to show another cutscene.
And all the people talking about how it's just watching a bunch of numbers slowly increase, how is that any worse than the majority of Western RPG's that are just 'Collect X amount of Y' ad infinitum?
There are a lot of JRPG's I loved that no one ever really seems to talk about anymore, such as Illusion of Gaia, Tales of Symphonia and the .Hack series. Eternal Sonata was at least an interesting idea and probably would have been a good game, too, if it let me play for more than five minutes without wrestling the controls away from me to show another cutscene.
And all the people talking about how it's just watching a bunch of numbers slowly increase, how is that any worse than the majority of Western RPG's that are just 'Collect X amount of Y' ad infinitum?
I'm probably going to get heat for this but whatever, after the PSOne era, every JRPG I've tried has had a whiny hero, or a crap story or battle mechanics I disliked.
It's really annoying to see a guy flipping off every wall spinning a big sword about like it's not there only to get all 'distant' and say something retarded like "I'm ...no hero". And you think oh maybe it'll be some sort of deep plot thing, then you find out he couldn't save someone once so therefore he can't save anyone ever again. That doesn't sell me, that means try harder not give up.
Wall of text about how JRPGs are emo:
Or the game is just obsessed with making teenagers do incredibly awesome things and lack any form of decent story. It's all about visuals and over the top animation.
I don't know call me dumb for saying so but back in the PSOne era with games like Breath of Fire 4 where everyone wants to push on with their mission, there's some struggle but they know they need to do it, they show fear or dislike of the situation but it's not dragged on, they know it needs to be done. There's actual personality to the characters and they're not dressed like they fell through laundry drying outside of apartment buildings. FFVII where there's tons of issues and some breakdowns but the characters stay on track. Xenogears where the main character does 'something bad' mopes about for a short while but finds purpose.
Edit:
vs
Seriously who are you going to take more seriously?
/Edit:
To sum up: What I like seeing is a party that goes through struggle but comes out on top, maybe loses something or someone. There's more emotion and character in the 24megabit Phantasy Star 4 when you see in pixelated un-voice acted form:
TL
R: I love old JRPGs but new JRPGs need less whiny/unbelievable characters and more actual heroes who aren't emo for no freaking reason. I like JRPGs! Just not any recent ones at all.
It's really annoying to see a guy flipping off every wall spinning a big sword about like it's not there only to get all 'distant' and say something retarded like "I'm ...no hero". And you think oh maybe it'll be some sort of deep plot thing, then you find out he couldn't save someone once so therefore he can't save anyone ever again. That doesn't sell me, that means try harder not give up.
Wall of text about how JRPGs are emo:
Persona series has been a bit emo in tone but still incredibly upbeat and 'yeah we can do this!'. It started for me seeing Squall in FF8, this really able guy and he kept being some distant minded jackass. The most believable character in that game was Zell. And if it's not that the characters are just so strange/silly they're not believable. Tidus in FFX was just a whiny little child(though I hear this was something they did in the translation to english), I get his issues but they couldn't have portrayed the guy any more whiny. All the other characters were more interesting, then there's blitzball and the religion agh. Last JRPG I saw was White Knight Chronicles, while the characters were somewhat interesting, they were still dumb. Oh and I'll never get over how stupidly emo they made Cloud AFTER Final Fantasy VII, despite him crumbling in the middle he still had "let's mosey!" attitude" he was never bloody emo and now he's everything I hate outside the game "I'm ...no hero!".
Or the game is just obsessed with making teenagers do incredibly awesome things and lack any form of decent story. It's all about visuals and over the top animation.
I don't know call me dumb for saying so but back in the PSOne era with games like Breath of Fire 4 where everyone wants to push on with their mission, there's some struggle but they know they need to do it, they show fear or dislike of the situation but it's not dragged on, they know it needs to be done. There's actual personality to the characters and they're not dressed like they fell through laundry drying outside of apartment buildings. FFVII where there's tons of issues and some breakdowns but the characters stay on track. Xenogears where the main character does 'something bad' mopes about for a short while but finds purpose.
Edit:
To sum up: What I like seeing is a party that goes through struggle but comes out on top, maybe loses something or someone. There's more emotion and character in the 24megabit Phantasy Star 4 when you see in pixelated un-voice acted form:
Alys dying in bed after she took an attack for you and it got worse when you pressed on to try and save her and defeat the enemy. She died, everyone cried, your character was miserable but picked his ass up quickly and did what he had to. It pulled your heart strings and made you feel for the character, it truly sucked to see but it made you FEEL for the main character.
TL
R: I love old JRPGs but new JRPGs need less whiny/unbelievable characters and more actual heroes who aren't emo for no freaking reason. I like JRPGs! Just not any recent ones at all.
HAY! I like watching the timer on windows media player go up thank you very much.Zhukov said:
On topic if people would quit asking me I would quit saying I don't like them. It's just as it stands about once a week someone asks me why I don't like Jrpgs. I guess I will say what I always say then I then to not like the combat and the story of most of the I know that not all of them are like that but I am not going to go looking for an Ice cream shop in the sewer.
It was III in the west and VI in Japan the first 3 where not released imminently in the west it was only until FF7 that they standardized it. You might wonder how I know that despite the fact that I don't like Jrpgs, I use to watch Icons a lot before G4 started to suck.rob_simple said:
I don't judge games based on genre. I will play games that I enjoy and those are usually games with a deep, involving story and characters and that also give the player lots of freedom* - although I still enjoy games which don't attempt to give the player freedom. Story is the most important thing for me
[footnote]*And by freedom I do not mean: creating a character based on thousands of sliders and having to deal with menus which are essentially Microsoft Excel Spreadsheets[/footnote]
[footnote]*And by freedom I do not mean: creating a character based on thousands of sliders and having to deal with menus which are essentially Microsoft Excel Spreadsheets[/footnote]
Compared to how ever accepting this community is to military shooters?TehCookie said:
To the OP:
Every genre gets mocked.
I would imagine people who "hated" JRPGS did so out of the beleif they were archaic, full of anime stereotypes and generally boring. Which has a degree of truth, same as saying shooters cater to "brain dead jingoistic idiots"
Whatever.
Accept that fact that some people will not enjoy what you enjoy OP and move on.
Unless it's a Bioware game haha. Can't let player decisions getting in the way of the story they want to tell!Bhaalspawn said:That's a distinction not a lot of people seem to notice. JRPG's are roleplaying games in their gameplay, but not so much in their story. Where Western RPG's are roleplaying games in the DnD sense where the story progresses at your own pace.Kahunaburger said:I enjoy the fact that a Bioware writing director is making this case that FFXIII is not an RPG: "You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character..." xDGrey Day for Elcia said:
Because 99% of games calling themselves JRPGs are animated movies that limit player interaction to clicking X on an attack. No player agency in the world, no affect on the story, no player made decisions in dialog, no player influence on the story, no character development beyond exactly what the developer wants--these are all things diametrically opposed to the roleplaying experience.
Final Fantasy: not an RPG.
Planescape Torment: an RPG.
(FFXIII has mechanics derived from P&P RPGs. It's an RPG. Whether it's a good one is up for debate haha.)
This is why Black Isle and the alumni thereof rock. They understand the importance of a large world, the importance of that world being reactive, and the importance of telling a story in that world. Bioware and Bethesda at best understand the importance of one of these each.Bhaalspawn said:Honestly, I like it better that way. Western RPG's focus on open worlds with not much substance to them, and JRPG's focus on a specific storyline and their own characters.Kahunaburger said:Unless it's a Bioware game haha. Can't let player decisions getting in the way of the story they want to tell!Bhaalspawn said:That's a distinction not a lot of people seem to notice. JRPG's are roleplaying games in their gameplay, but not so much in their story. Where Western RPG's are roleplaying games in the DnD sense where the story progresses at your own pace.Kahunaburger said:I enjoy the fact that a Bioware writing director is making this case that FFXIII is not an RPG: "You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character..." xDGrey Day for Elcia said:
Because 99% of games calling themselves JRPGs are animated movies that limit player interaction to clicking X on an attack. No player agency in the world, no affect on the story, no player made decisions in dialog, no player influence on the story, no character development beyond exactly what the developer wants--these are all things diametrically opposed to the roleplaying experience.
Final Fantasy: not an RPG.
Planescape Torment: an RPG.
(FFXIII has mechanics derived from P&P RPGs. It's an RPG. Whether it's a good one is up for debate haha.)
BioWare games have lots of side content to them, but progression is actually rather linear with the illusion of open world gameplay. Baldur's Gate 2 sets you with the task of gathering 20,000 gold to rescue Imoen, and says there's lots of adventuring out there to gather it. Like The Elder Scrolls, but with a clear goal in mind and a reason to do most of not all of the side content.
KOTOR gives you a clear destination of the Star Maps, but lets you pick the order on your own and fills every planet with side missions and party member storylines.
SWTOR has the typical MMO questing system, but with your class story actively giving your a reason to be on whatever planet you're on.
I really prefer that in a sense, and while many would not agree with me, I think games like The Elder Scrolls and Fallout could do with having a clear destination worked into their side content, rather than setting you in a big world and saying "Alright, here you are, I'm gonna go take a nap."
There's nothing particularly bad about a linear game, or even a game that gives the player little to no freedom. There's also nothing bad about open world sandbox games like Skyrim or GTA, and nothing wrong with 6-hour gratification games like Call of Duty.
I love them, some of the best games EVER are them, and most of my favorite games of all time are in there too, (FFVI, Valkirie Profile, Vagrant Story, Cnrno Trigger, Dragon Quest V, VIII) is american RPGs that i dont swallow, brown, boring, no personality, i know im alone in this but i rather play FFXIII than Skyrim (i didnt even finish Skyrim to damn boring) and no im NOT joking or trolling this is my honest to god opinion
I've actually been playing more JRPG's than other types of games recently. Just finished Tales of Graces F, which was pretty standard as far as JRPG's go but worth a play if you like the tales games.
Just cracked open Xenoblade Chronicles, which so far is amazing and I'm only a few hours into it.
Hell even FF13-2 wasn't terrible, and was a massive improvement overall on FF13.
Then there's Dark Souls, which although modeled after a WRPG in terms of gameplay, is still technically a JRPG and it was a contender for GOTY.
If you want some more Atlus goodness there's Radiant Historia, a somewhat recent but commonly overlooked game. It's probably one of the best RPG's I've seen on a handheld.
Now that I'm done fanboygasm'ing all over the place, OP, JRPG's may not be huge on the escapist but the genre is doing fine. You just have to look a little bit harder to find the good ones than you used to.
Just cracked open Xenoblade Chronicles, which so far is amazing and I'm only a few hours into it.
Hell even FF13-2 wasn't terrible, and was a massive improvement overall on FF13.
Then there's Dark Souls, which although modeled after a WRPG in terms of gameplay, is still technically a JRPG and it was a contender for GOTY.
If you want some more Atlus goodness there's Radiant Historia, a somewhat recent but commonly overlooked game. It's probably one of the best RPG's I've seen on a handheld.
Now that I'm done fanboygasm'ing all over the place, OP, JRPG's may not be huge on the escapist but the genre is doing fine. You just have to look a little bit harder to find the good ones than you used to.
My issue is that (other that Atlus, who are always reliable for a good JRPG with mother-fucking TURN BASED COMBAT - hell yeah! - ahem) there just haven't been many JRPGs coming out lately. And those that do... just haven't had the power of previous games.
I still hold up Xenogears as the best game ever made of any genre, and it is a JRPG. But really, it's been forever since anyone tried anything like that - an Epic and well written story with turn-based combat that relied on light, medium, and strong based attacks used in combos. In no other game is grinding random enemies so damn fun!
Even the Xenosaga trilogy, whose story I loved to pieces, couldn't recapture the intricacies and interest of the Xenogears combat system. Compared to Xenogears, in Xenosaga you stand around dully doing the exact same thing every battle (Boost KOSMOS on the x2 EXP round, X-Buster everything to death, repeat). I won't even mention Xenosaga 2, the combat of which is the video game equivalent of those monks who whip themselves.
Anyway... I, on occasion, will try poking a PS3 era JRPG, but most of them either don't have turn-based combat (I enjoyed FF 13, but, while fun, if it isn't turn-based, it isn't rubbing that JRPG happy spot for me) or, if they do have turn based, they're badly written or boring (again, aside from Atlus games, who seem to have their efforts focused directly on that turn-based nostalgia sweet-spot).
So... yeah, just haven't seen much lately that does the trick. I guess I'll be stuck waiting for Persona 5. Oh well, I'll just go play P3P or Xenogears again.
Edit: On Xenoblade Chronicles - I do not own a Wii. IF the game actually took place in the established Xenogears/Xenosaga chronology, I would have bought a Wii to play that game. It, sadly, does not - it is just written by the same person. Does it sound awesome? Yes. But it is not turn based (the combat sounds rather like FF 12, which I disliked) and Xenoblade has no impact on the existing Xenogears storyline, so... not worth buying an entire console for.
I still hold up Xenogears as the best game ever made of any genre, and it is a JRPG. But really, it's been forever since anyone tried anything like that - an Epic and well written story with turn-based combat that relied on light, medium, and strong based attacks used in combos. In no other game is grinding random enemies so damn fun!
Even the Xenosaga trilogy, whose story I loved to pieces, couldn't recapture the intricacies and interest of the Xenogears combat system. Compared to Xenogears, in Xenosaga you stand around dully doing the exact same thing every battle (Boost KOSMOS on the x2 EXP round, X-Buster everything to death, repeat). I won't even mention Xenosaga 2, the combat of which is the video game equivalent of those monks who whip themselves.
Anyway... I, on occasion, will try poking a PS3 era JRPG, but most of them either don't have turn-based combat (I enjoyed FF 13, but, while fun, if it isn't turn-based, it isn't rubbing that JRPG happy spot for me) or, if they do have turn based, they're badly written or boring (again, aside from Atlus games, who seem to have their efforts focused directly on that turn-based nostalgia sweet-spot).
So... yeah, just haven't seen much lately that does the trick. I guess I'll be stuck waiting for Persona 5. Oh well, I'll just go play P3P or Xenogears again.
Edit: On Xenoblade Chronicles - I do not own a Wii. IF the game actually took place in the established Xenogears/Xenosaga chronology, I would have bought a Wii to play that game. It, sadly, does not - it is just written by the same person. Does it sound awesome? Yes. But it is not turn based (the combat sounds rather like FF 12, which I disliked) and Xenoblade has no impact on the existing Xenogears storyline, so... not worth buying an entire console for.
Was I not clear enough when I typed "I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW THEY WOULDN'T APPEAL TO SOMEONE"? People like different things, I would never expect everyone to agree with me. Also I already pointed out all genres are mocked, and asked why it's more frequent with JRPGs. Most people dislike sports games, but they're just ignored. Why don't people treat JRPGs the same way?370999 said:
A lot more common than say COD bashing? Or EA bashing? Or the flavor of the week bashing (like ME 3 lately)?TehCookie said:
I think the fans who are defending (AKA the ones forcing their likes down other people's throats) are just as much to blame here. Here is an example. I don't like COD. I didn't like 4 and I never even bothered with the rest. Yet if I tell a hardcore fan that I am going to be subjected to a rant about how I am a lesser person and blah blah blah changing my opinion from not liking to absolutely despising COD not because I hate it because I am forced to choose a side and not any middle ground. To a fan it is either love or hate. I am not allowed to simply not enjoy.
I personally don't see this 'hatred' that you are constantly viewing.
I personally enjoy JRPGs. I don't play them often however, because now my primary platform is the PC. JRPGs are almost always released on console.
Honestly though, even if I did oftentimes purchase games on console, I don't really see myself buying JRPGs for a different reason.
The reason is I am not really a big fan on the fact that JRPGs have taken a different turn from the old RPG route, compared to what the WRPGs have done.
Despite JRPGs having the same roots that modern WRPGs have (Mainly Wizardry and Ultima), JRPGs concentrated on simplifying the experience. They did it, (VERY well. I do enjoy JRPGs, especially when I was younger), but WRPG developers continued with developing on PC. Now that WRPGs are being released regularly on console, they have definitely gotten a different result out of it. One that I prefer.
I honestly think the line between western and japanese RPGs have blurred a little now. They still play differently and are narrated differently (beyond the aesthetics between these games) but in the end, western RPGs have a level of character personalization and personal involvement that I don't really notice in japanese RPGs.
This isn't the only reason, personally. But it's the simplest one I can come up with as to why they aren't as appealing to me nowdays.
I personally enjoy JRPGs. I don't play them often however, because now my primary platform is the PC. JRPGs are almost always released on console.
Honestly though, even if I did oftentimes purchase games on console, I don't really see myself buying JRPGs for a different reason.
The reason is I am not really a big fan on the fact that JRPGs have taken a different turn from the old RPG route, compared to what the WRPGs have done.
Despite JRPGs having the same roots that modern WRPGs have (Mainly Wizardry and Ultima), JRPGs concentrated on simplifying the experience. They did it, (VERY well. I do enjoy JRPGs, especially when I was younger), but WRPG developers continued with developing on PC. Now that WRPGs are being released regularly on console, they have definitely gotten a different result out of it. One that I prefer.
I honestly think the line between western and japanese RPGs have blurred a little now. They still play differently and are narrated differently (beyond the aesthetics between these games) but in the end, western RPGs have a level of character personalization and personal involvement that I don't really notice in japanese RPGs.
This isn't the only reason, personally. But it's the simplest one I can come up with as to why they aren't as appealing to me nowdays.
You are right, I was limited to the threads I've seen and I don't visit many hate threads. I just hate it when you are having a pleasant thread and someone like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.366654-Need-a-good-JRPG-for-Xbox#14302067] shows up. Trolls and the internet I know, but on the occasions I did go into other game specific threads it seemed to be less common or at least a better troll.squid5580 said:
Holla' atcha' boy! Between the personality test at the beginning and the ability to customize every characters role in your party (dare I say it, allowing you to play multiple roles?) that game probably had the most lasting appeal to me of any JRPG. Even though it was a lot more simple in terms of gameplay and story than most others I've played.Aircross said:
The only thing I really like about JRPG's is that they're allowed to exist in some really out-there settings. I actually really liked the later FF's for this, but they're the only JRPG's I've played in the last few years.
What I don't like is when they go "style over substance". I think some of the outfits, machines, etc. are pretty creative, but sometimes everything is so over-stylized that there's literally nothing to connect to. Did anyone see the FFXIV trailer where a guy is fighting a monster in a fantasy setting, then all the sudden this giant sideways-helicopter rifle thing comes blasting in? It's so bananas I can't relate to anything that's going on. FFXIII seemed to have a lot of that too before I just outright quit. A lot of pretty visuals that mean nothing.
Then there's the bargain bin of character archetypes, none of which act remotely how a character would behave in real life. For Final Fantasy specifically, a series of games I still genuinely enjoy, I didn't notice how bad this was until I played Dissidia, and realized there isn't a single main character that had an interesting personality (except Zidane, kind of). I'm okay with a linear narrative as long as it provides an interesting framework for a story, but in most of these games I tend to wish I could follow the villains around instead, since their crew at least seem to have pulses.
same reason people hate anything ignorance (not total ignorance of course as you do need to know of somethings existence to hate it) and or conflict (real or imagined) of some sort or another usually its a mix of the two, then people just start making their own reasons to justify their hatred.
well actually you can have hatred without ignorance and just conflict although I would say this is rare but you cant have hatred just from ignorance.
well actually you can have hatred without ignorance and just conflict although I would say this is rare but you cant have hatred just from ignorance.