i played mass effect 2 for an hour i was just wandering around places and never could get into anyone and i didnt like the combat either
why do people like bioware games so much?
- Thread starter LWS666
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this coming from the person with a new Vegas avatar? do you like that game, that glitched out, run down game, despite its flaws? because i find it better now, but with bioware, there just great, there the only game dev that i give a crap about anymore, they care for there fans and are great. thats why i like them so much.
Now thats a little more accurate. People have not seen the better games, so they love the highest quality they have personally experienced. For me Dragon Age was enjoyable but it was worst then previous titles while DA2 was even worse. Theres a line some people can go depending on their past experiences.Continuity said:
I know this isn't the same for everyone but I always become emotionally involved in BioWare games simply because the story and characters are so great. The games are also fun and I think BioWare are one of the only companies that actually listen to what the fans, their consumers, have to say. That's a very attractive trait to fans.
It's all about the characters. They're well written with deep backstories.
Bioware isn't perfect, they don't have the best gameplay or the most eye-gorging graphics, but they did hit the nail on story, emotion and immersion. Something that is very rare to find in other games now'a days.
Bioware isn't perfect, they don't have the best gameplay or the most eye-gorging graphics, but they did hit the nail on story, emotion and immersion. Something that is very rare to find in other games now'a days.
Pick your poison.
1) They consist of half of the current big WRPG developers (as in the only one other than Bethesda)
2) Their games are story-driven and include likeable characters
3) People remember their old games (KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, NWN, and Jade Empire) and start nerdgasming all over the place.
1) They consist of half of the current big WRPG developers (as in the only one other than Bethesda)
2) Their games are story-driven and include likeable characters
3) People remember their old games (KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, NWN, and Jade Empire) and start nerdgasming all over the place.
You miss the point. If you own a console no one else is making this sort of game. I make my charecter, shape his/her choices, conversations and abilities. I gather my team with a mix of personalities, abilities and personal abilites. I make choices that affect the game world (and the game world of games made years later). In ME this is mixed with playable shooting and DA:O (havent played 2 yet) gives me tactical strategy.LWS666 said:
What other choices do I have for this sort of game? Bethesda? There games tend to be deeply broken upon release and have no where near the polish or structure. Some people love these games and they sell well. However they are not for me. I put a lot of hours into Morrow wind but never beat it. I played FO but stopped through lack of interest.
For high adventure with lots of choices, story and customisation there is no one else competing.
Since KotOR, they've been going down the "cinematic" route sure, with Jade Empire and Mass Effect as follow ups. KotOR was the last d20 style game they did with JE being a proprietary RP system that was a little too "lite" for my tastes.
BioWare always make well written and polished games. Unlike Troika, Obsidian and other studios renowned for their "flawed gems" of games BW deliver top titles each time. I'll admit that the light/dark, closed first/open palm, paragon/renegade thing is a little tired and uninspired now, but it does work. So what if it doesn't really make any difference in the game whether I play good or evil if I just end up playing the same game anyway? One could argue then that the only difference then is Role-play which is a large part of what RPGs are about.
To make BioWare games closer to perfect again they need to do what they do now, but take some things from their old games too.
- Party based games. Make the character interactions happen during the gameplay, not during the off-duty moments. Give us back 4-6 sized teams instead of 2-3. Have character disputes (remember if you tried having Kheldorn and Korgan in the same team?) and interactions.
- Levelling/Gear - STOP MAKING IT SIMPLE. I like to choose how each person on the team levels up and specialises, I like to choose their armour, weapons and upgrades. It is FUN to find new gear and swap it out for the old and decide who gets what.
- "Unique"/Personal quests - ME1 sorta had this in the way of one quest based on Shepard's origin, but not like BG2. A wizard got the dome, a bard got the theatre, a warrior got the keep and a bunch of related quests along with it. There is *nothing* wrong with having parts of game only available to certain characters and not for others. It encourages further playthrus and makes each character/playthru a little more personal and unique.
- Toolset/modding - DA:O had it but it should be a part of every BioWare game. The ability to tweak, mod, add new items and player made content is impossible to put a value on (even though with everything voiced-over now it's much, much harder).
- You can have too many cutscenes - In JE, it can seem that almost every single fight begins and ends with a conversation. It's frustrating and breaks the flow of gameplay.
BioWare always make well written and polished games. Unlike Troika, Obsidian and other studios renowned for their "flawed gems" of games BW deliver top titles each time. I'll admit that the light/dark, closed first/open palm, paragon/renegade thing is a little tired and uninspired now, but it does work. So what if it doesn't really make any difference in the game whether I play good or evil if I just end up playing the same game anyway? One could argue then that the only difference then is Role-play which is a large part of what RPGs are about.
To make BioWare games closer to perfect again they need to do what they do now, but take some things from their old games too.
- Party based games. Make the character interactions happen during the gameplay, not during the off-duty moments. Give us back 4-6 sized teams instead of 2-3. Have character disputes (remember if you tried having Kheldorn and Korgan in the same team?) and interactions.
- Levelling/Gear - STOP MAKING IT SIMPLE. I like to choose how each person on the team levels up and specialises, I like to choose their armour, weapons and upgrades. It is FUN to find new gear and swap it out for the old and decide who gets what.
- "Unique"/Personal quests - ME1 sorta had this in the way of one quest based on Shepard's origin, but not like BG2. A wizard got the dome, a bard got the theatre, a warrior got the keep and a bunch of related quests along with it. There is *nothing* wrong with having parts of game only available to certain characters and not for others. It encourages further playthrus and makes each character/playthru a little more personal and unique.
- Toolset/modding - DA:O had it but it should be a part of every BioWare game. The ability to tweak, mod, add new items and player made content is impossible to put a value on (even though with everything voiced-over now it's much, much harder).
- You can have too many cutscenes - In JE, it can seem that almost every single fight begins and ends with a conversation. It's frustrating and breaks the flow of gameplay.
I particularly like Bioware games because they build their own history, culture and religion that you can freely read about.
In Neverwinter Nights, you could find and buy books which ranged from short stories of orks, to the documentation of demonic cults and to the recording of great battles.
In Mass Effect 2, you can delve into your codex which is filled with the information on weapons, ships and aliens that you discover on your missions.
It makes the game that bit more interesting and makes your world more substantial and that this world has already been living without you and will continue to when your gone.
In Neverwinter Nights, you could find and buy books which ranged from short stories of orks, to the documentation of demonic cults and to the recording of great battles.
In Mass Effect 2, you can delve into your codex which is filled with the information on weapons, ships and aliens that you discover on your missions.
It makes the game that bit more interesting and makes your world more substantial and that this world has already been living without you and will continue to when your gone.
In BioWare's defense, they're just following the age-old theme of the PC getting a super huge advantage of being the PC. DAO isn't the first game where that's happened, nor will it be the last. Plus it makes you feel like a badass if you can keep your willing suspension of belief in check.RelexCryo said:
Personally I love Bioware and I hated DA after about 5minutes of playing and I haven't played Mass Effect. The reason I love them is because they made the single greatest RPG in the universe, and that is Baldurs Gate 2: Shadows of Amn.
People love Bioware RPGs because pretty much everything you've said about them is exactly the opposite. The story is masterfully written (and nowhere near impenetrable). The background reading material is NOT necessary to understand the story whatsoever, it does add more depth to the universe for those that are interested in it (and as such it is not forced upon you).
The plot of ME2 makes perfect sense: He is forced to work with Cerberus because the Alliance refuses to acknowledge the problem, and as part of the Alliance he would not be able to do anything about the threat. Also you CAN enlist the aid of the Alliance if you so wish.
The terrorist organization build a better ship after years of improvement BASED on the original research of the ship. Also it's worth noting that in the universe all major research companies are Private and not state owned.
Characters are all by far superior to most other games (with very few exceptions popping up here and there) with superb writing, voice acting and design.
Conversation is well done, as well as any other I'd say, nothing overly exciting about it, but not bad either.
Gameplay is indeed average, well executed, but not groundbreaking. It is however a perfectly adequate driving force for the story to unfold, and that's good enough. Some games have very good gameplay, some games have very good settings, some games have very good stories. Bioware are masters of the latter.
As to Bioware being on of the greatest game makers of all time.... Yes, why not? They haven't made a single game I didn't enjoy playing yet, and that's way more than can be said for most developers out there. Blizzard and Valve would be the only exceptions here.
So far I can think of no other developers to make any game series more epic, interesting and well executed than Bioware.
As much as I respect other people's opinions, it's less about opinion here and more about being able to properly appreciate a masterfully done work of art. I wouldn't expect a burger-eating, Nascar-watching redneck to appreciate Vivaldi's The Four Seasons, and I wouldn't expect a twitching, attention-deficit BlackOps gamer to appreciate Bioware.
The plot of ME2 makes perfect sense: He is forced to work with Cerberus because the Alliance refuses to acknowledge the problem, and as part of the Alliance he would not be able to do anything about the threat. Also you CAN enlist the aid of the Alliance if you so wish.
The terrorist organization build a better ship after years of improvement BASED on the original research of the ship. Also it's worth noting that in the universe all major research companies are Private and not state owned.
Characters are all by far superior to most other games (with very few exceptions popping up here and there) with superb writing, voice acting and design.
Conversation is well done, as well as any other I'd say, nothing overly exciting about it, but not bad either.
Gameplay is indeed average, well executed, but not groundbreaking. It is however a perfectly adequate driving force for the story to unfold, and that's good enough. Some games have very good gameplay, some games have very good settings, some games have very good stories. Bioware are masters of the latter.
As to Bioware being on of the greatest game makers of all time.... Yes, why not? They haven't made a single game I didn't enjoy playing yet, and that's way more than can be said for most developers out there. Blizzard and Valve would be the only exceptions here.
So far I can think of no other developers to make any game series more epic, interesting and well executed than Bioware.
As much as I respect other people's opinions, it's less about opinion here and more about being able to properly appreciate a masterfully done work of art. I wouldn't expect a burger-eating, Nascar-watching redneck to appreciate Vivaldi's The Four Seasons, and I wouldn't expect a twitching, attention-deficit BlackOps gamer to appreciate Bioware.
Why do people like Bioware games so much? Well, because people have played them? To be fair, you have your right to your own opinion, but you really have to accept that you fall into the minority on this one, im not saying that bioware is perfect, I just find that they produce games that are in a much higher quality category than most. Not everyone has to like the same thing, but the majority opinion sets trends, current trends say that Bioware produces really great games that you should buy and play. Nuff said.
I agree with you. I played Mass Effect 2 once, completed it, attempted to play it again and realised I was just doing the same shit on a different day. The areas are all blocked in. You can see a massive world of life around you, yet can't touch it. The graphics are good fo'sure, but I just find it boring after 1 play through. Don't even get me started on that mining planets bullshit. If ANYONE enjoyed that, I'd be surprised.
As for Mass Effect one, just as boring, again large worlds you can hardly delve into, graphics were again good, but The only Character I really like is Garrus, the rest could die for all I care, and the only reason I like him is because he looks cool.
I only played the first one twice because my first save messed up and I wanted the Krogan in my Mass Effect 2,expecting to get him on my team... no, he just sat there all on his throne and stuff.
Boring. Beautiful, but boring and not very big.
As for Mass Effect one, just as boring, again large worlds you can hardly delve into, graphics were again good, but The only Character I really like is Garrus, the rest could die for all I care, and the only reason I like him is because he looks cool.
I only played the first one twice because my first save messed up and I wanted the Krogan in my Mass Effect 2,expecting to get him on my team... no, he just sat there all on his throne and stuff.
Boring. Beautiful, but boring and not very big.
Apart from how well the stories are written and applied... I don't get what the big deal with Bioware is.
The only Bioware games I enjoyed where Kotor and Baldur's Gate.
ME managed to make SciFi boring
DA:O managed to make western fantasy mundane.
The only Bioware games I enjoyed where Kotor and Baldur's Gate.
ME managed to make SciFi boring
DA:O managed to make western fantasy mundane.
It is also a tale of three owners as well.
Originally Bioware Corporation was owned and operated internally by the 2 Doctors who founded the company. At that time all great releases.
Then Bono from U2 went and bought the company, (Elevation Partners) and they quickly turned around and sold Bioware and Pandemic to the big bad EA.
So now EA owns it and that is that. (since about the DA1 and ME2 development cycles)
Also I would like to point out that not only is the quality above par, you sure as hell get your dollar value as well. 40+ hours easy if you are going to try both "good/bad" story lines, for almost every game. Sure beats the 5 hour garbage, single player stuff on the market.
Originally Bioware Corporation was owned and operated internally by the 2 Doctors who founded the company. At that time all great releases.
Then Bono from U2 went and bought the company, (Elevation Partners) and they quickly turned around and sold Bioware and Pandemic to the big bad EA.
So now EA owns it and that is that. (since about the DA1 and ME2 development cycles)
Also I would like to point out that not only is the quality above par, you sure as hell get your dollar value as well. 40+ hours easy if you are going to try both "good/bad" story lines, for almost every game. Sure beats the 5 hour garbage, single player stuff on the market.