why do people like bioware games so much?

[bobmus]

Personally I never got into either series, as I found the balance in Mass Effect horrible - combat was a massive pain. But then this is mainly because I don't like party-based gameplay, so I feel kitting out a team like in these games was never meant to appeal to me!

 

[The Funslinger]

see, i'm seeing alot of people claim interesting stories, but the mass effect games have rather flawed stories, since the entire of mass effect 2 is just being rail roaded, where you work with cerberus because you can't work with the alliance, you can't work with the alliance because you're working with cerberus. and is filled with plot holes, the first is about 10 minutes into the game where a terrorist organization manages to make a better ship than the entire allience could.

and hta characters aren't really that great, overlooking the fact that two of them (miranda and hte justicar) are shamelessly there for sex appeal, alot of them don't actually come in use in the big mission. why did you need 2 biotics experts if you only need one? why not bring more weapon experts?

Not to be a stickler, but it wasn't the entire Alliance, it was the Humans, with help from the Turians.

In any case, it's over the period of two years while Shepherd was out, and they're a somewhat criminal organization. It's obvious just by looking at the ship they'd have somehow accessed the original Normandy's plans, probably via espionage. Once that was done, it wouldn't be difficult to recreate and improve. Thing is, stories that spell out all of this stuff, just spoon feeding it to you aren't good at all. All it bears is a little consideration to how it could have been achieved.

As for the characters, Yeah, someone like Miranda has sex appeal, but in case you didn't notice she also has a fantastic backstory. And besides, you don't play with multiple biotics, and have multiple weapons experts. That doesn't mean others do or don't. It's a game that can be played in many ways, and I sometimes use multiple biotics to cover me with their abilities while I run and gun. Sometimes, I don't. I'm not trying to sound fanboyish, because I'm not. I do like the series, but second to others. It just seems you haven't played devil's advocate and given your argument any due consideration from the other side at all.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Please people everywhere in the world stop making threads such as "why do people like/dislike ". There is no point to such threads really. Basically I will answer all of the above questions with one answer. Not everyone has the same taste as you. Some people may enjoy things for different reasons to you and therefore are able to like something you don't or dislike something you enjoy. So unless you are actually curious as to the negative or positive aspects to a certain entity, which in this case it doesn't appear that you are, the question itself is moot. There will always be some people who like certain games and some who don't.

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say. It's not that hard to understand that people have different opinions, is it?

No, however the OP was asking we fans of the series to be objective and explain what attracts them to BioWare. What you quoted is the cop out answer where people cannot accept any criticism to their beloved game. Were we to accept the aforementioned then theoretically speaking, no one should be allowed to fault Twilight or any form of literature or media based on the supposed claim if someone enjoys it, then we cannot criticize it.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

i understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you enjoyed all of biowares games then good for you, but it seems EVERYONE thinks bioware is one of the greatest game makers of all time

Everything after Jade Empire has been pretty shoddy and I'll stick by that until proven wrong by them.

Dragon Age Origins was a bit of a hit and miss, it reminds me a bit of Duke Nukem Forever (heaven forbid I make that comparison and piss people off) without the development time. Dragon Age (much like DNF) is a modern game with old school elements, in DAOs case its old school RPG elements. Which is great, except that, again, much like DNF the old school elements don't mesh with modern gameplay or even a modern audience. The tactical battle system was great, but many of the classes and characters weren't different or unique enough to make it necessary. I breezed through Nightmare because after one playthrough I'd worked out the ideal party structure.

They you have Mass Effect, which started out as a schizophrenic action-RPG with half baked action and half baked RPG elements and a joke of a morality system. Bioware actually made an improvement by focusing on the action part of the game because at least then one of the elements of gameplay was engaging.

When it comes down to it, it's not about Bioware being superior or good, it's about them being better than competition. Which, when you look at the competition you can't really deny. Bioware's only real opponent is Bethesda and their games are different enough for them to never have to come into direct combat.

I'd really like to see Origin Systems come and put our a modern day Ultima title. At least then you'd get a clear indicator of how many Bioware fans are only Bioware fans because they once made good CRPGs and now make substandard RPGs. To be frank I think Obsidian know how to balance the RPG-Action a lot better than Bioware do. Alpha Protocol was a shining example of this.

 

[Morielen]

I don't 'love' Bioware. I've been disappointed by it countless times, but I can say one thing: Bioware's never failed to give me a story that appealed to me, a world that I wanted to know more about, characters which interested me (or which I plain hated, which is interest enough, really =D)
I really, really enjoyed ME1 and 2, because they just were the type of game with just the content I need to say "woo! that was fun!"
DA:O was meh, but I liked it enoug to finish it and actually run through the game several times. Plus, I still had a deep interest in 'what's going to happen next'. Oh, and the dialogues between your characters... *snicker*
Yes, a lot wasn't all that great, but dispite all bad things, I still think of 'good RPGs, albeit buggy' when I hear Bioware

 

[Felix 'Solomon' Hultgren]

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

i understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you enjoyed all of biowares games then good for you, but it seems EVERYONE thinks bioware is one of the greatest game makers of all time

What plot holes? You haven't mentioned a single one. It's all there. In conversation or in the codex and lore respectively. If you didn't get what was going on in the games, you should probably pay more attention. The writing is the best in the industry hands down. Name one company that produces games with better writing. Pause menu? I guess you mean the lore. The lore is not necessary information, but rather information that will give more depth to the story. Do you know why? Because the game is heavily (and when I say heavily I mean HEAVILY) story based. Not gameplay based. Story based. You don't play BioWare games for the mechanics or the graphics or even the rpg elements (anymore, or so it would seem). You play them because, like me, you love to immerse yourself into a different world where you save the world instead of doing essays and revision. So there. I don't believe you will answer or even notice this, cause it's already been established that you wouldn't know a good game if it hit you in the face but if you do, please name some of the "many, many plotholes" as well as a game developer with a better writing staff.

 

[The Heik]

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

i understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you enjoyed all of biowares games then good for you, but it seems EVERYONE thinks bioware is one of the greatest game makers of all time

For me Bioware games are awesome because of their ability to weave a narrative into the game. Every Bioware game I've played has always been easy to follow but if I dug deep enough I can find out so much more about everything in the game's universe. A lot of this is in the little details, like the idle conversation of people around you or in the manner and dress of the various characters. There's just so much there to be found if you take the time to look through it, and it's almost always rewarding either in terms of gameplay or your understanding of how and why things are happening.

In short, I love Bioware games because they put the extra effort into making your games feel like they're actual places, not just a bunch of ones and zeroes.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I dont really agree with much you said.

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

This doesnt really sound anything like a Bioware game. I am not a big Bioware guy, but writting, epicness feelings, conversations, gameplay, writting and story is what bioware games are most known for. It is alright if you don't like Bioware, but I think much of what your saying is biast.

Its like saying Crysis 2 looks ugly. I may not like the game, but the game looks amazing, and it has very good and intense gameplay

Well, there have been a lot of plotholes. Example: In the Dwarf commoner beginning storyline, a Dwarf rogue who is level 1 beats up canonically great warriors in a straight fight. It was immersion breaking.

In all fairness he/she did live in cut throat slums doing slightly shadey buisness for people. A merc like that would have skills comparable to your average arena participant.

OP: People think differently from you because people have different opinions. Deal with it. I LOVED ME1. Characters, dialogue, story, combat, RPG elements I LOVED TO BITS (thus why ME2 was a bit... meh for me) and brilliant back story. I actually related to characters. I did. Sometimes you cant understand someone else s opinion because... it isnt yours. You cant agree with them. Its not hard to understand.

Also if you say "EVERYONE loves it" I will bet you TEN MILLION DOLLERS in cash (i will provide my pay pall) that i can find someone who doesnt. You are not the only one. You are not special. People have a huge range of opinions.

 

[pspman45]

Characters with human like qualities, flaws and goals ect.
great writing
good set pieces for the action
interesting combat systems
each franchise has a unique aesthetic to it, with matching graphics, sound, and feel.

and just being plain awesome

 

[GigaHz]

I can understand the appeal of why people like Bioware games so much, but I also agree with the OP about a few points.

The first Mass Effect seemed more like a buggy concept demo than an actual polished game. While the campaign certainly had its moments, the awkward side questing, the cut and paste interior environments, and the clunky combat really drew me out of the experience. I never felt immersed in the universe or attached to any of the characters, with the exception of Wrex and Captain Anderson. It felt more like I was going through the motions to either progress the story or level up. While it was definitely better than the average game, it certainly didn't deserve some of the very high scores it received. Mass Effect 2 however, addressed just about everything wrong with the first game. It definitely deserved the praise it received, though it wasn't perfect either.

Dragon Age: Origins is more a matter of personal taste. It's not a game that you can faithfully experience unless you play the PC/Mac version on the hard or hardest difficulty. My gripes with the console version is that there is no overhead view and the difficulty is scaled down considerably. That and I believe that Dragon Age's saving grace is its gameplay and not its story, which is almost the opposite of the first Mass Effect. While the story itself is written pretty well, and some side quests and characters are interesting, the experience as a whole felt very bland. On top of that, your dialogue choices rarely have an impact on what happens in the story as you usually arrive at the same outcome. Plus, it's hard to take whats going on in a conversation seriously if your character is covered in blood or glowing from an aura. If they were trying to go for a realistic approach (for whatever reason), they failed miserably.

Bioware is a company that has earned a reputation for creating solid titles. While they have been guilty of releasing a few stinkers (Dragon Age 2, KOTOR 2) there is a level of consistent quality you can expect when you play a Bioware title. Do I believe that people are a little biased to Bioware? Most definitely, but you could say the same thing about anyone loyal to any developer. It might not be that a particular game they release is 'bad', it might be that the subject matter is not akin to your personal taste.

 

[Sephren468]

Well most of the games are pretty good, but they have not released a good game since Dragon Age: Origins. I am confident that TOR will be good though.

 

[Blackpapa]

In short: They make RPGs and they aren't Bethesda.

 

[AgentBJ09]

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

i understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you enjoyed all of biowares games then good for you, but it seems EVERYONE thinks bioware is one of the greatest game makers of all time

I can see what you mean, but a few other Western games besides Bioware ones have information left out of dialogue. It's to make sure it sounds more natural, rather than someone who should have experience with the subject being told about it once again.

Bethesda does this with their book system of storytelling, so you can read the actual lore in books rather than hearing most of it. Eidos did other things similar to it with Deus Ex 1 and 2. It mostly depends on how the story is being told. That said, I do find the tone and expressions in some Bioware games, mostly the early ones but a few recent ones as well, very lacking in terms of delivery. Mass Effect didn't have very well presented expressions of shock, and the dialogues did get a bit long at times.

As for everyone thinking Bioware is good, that's mostly due to their history, but I have to question some of their recent games and the changes made to them.

 

[Seives-Sliver]

I liked the characters, the lore was a blast when you could get into it, and it was challenging without being facedesk awful.

 

[Windcaler]

I wouldnt say of all time but I might go as far as the best game developer of recent memory. I like being able to make my own character and actually roleplay in a roleplaying game. I can make them grow, develop, and change over the course of the game according to my interpretation of the character and I really like that.

Add to that good writing (writing that is IMO on par with best selling fiction novels) and an easy and adaptive combat system and I have a lot of fun. The games fun for me on a lot of fronts unlike other games that are just kill fests or stories with horrible pacing and/or writing.

 

[RelexCryo]

I dont really agree with much you said.

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

This doesnt really sound anything like a Bioware game. I am not a big Bioware guy, but writting, epicness feelings, conversations, gameplay, writting and story is what bioware games are most known for. It is alright if you don't like Bioware, but I think much of what your saying is biast.

Its like saying Crysis 2 looks ugly. I may not like the game, but the game looks amazing, and it has very good and intense gameplay

Well, there have been a lot of plotholes. Example: In the Dwarf commoner beginning storyline, a Dwarf rogue who is level 1 beats up canonically great warriors in a straight fight. It was immersion breaking.

In all fairness he/she did live in cut throat slums doing slightly shadey buisness for people. A merc like that would have skills comparable to your average arena participant.

OP: People think differently from you because people have different opinions. Deal with it. I LOVED ME1. Characters, dialogue, story, combat, RPG elements I LOVED TO BITS (thus why ME2 was a bit... meh for me) and brilliant back story. I actually related to characters. I did. Sometimes you cant understand someone else s opinion because... it isnt yours. You cant agree with them. Its not hard to understand.

Also if you say "EVERYONE loves it" I will bet you TEN MILLION DOLLERS in cash (i will provide my pay pall) that i can find someone who doesnt. You are not the only one. You are not special. People have a huge range of opinions.

I never said it was a bad game. In the original quote, the poster stated that there were plotholes, and a second poster quoted them stating that they had seen no plotholes. I corrected them.

A) If your character was a heavily experienced mercenary, they would have been higher than level 1.

B) The characters your fought in the arena were warrriors that had experiences that would have made them higher than level 1. And you fought them in a straight fight as a level 1 rogue.

This doesn't even scratch the surface of the plotholes in DA:O however. In the mage tower quest, the templars are overrun by....the very mages they are explicitly trained to fight. Templars have extremely high mental resistance so they can resist mind control, but many Templars get mind controlled. Templars have abilities designed to nullify all magic around them, but they get caught in magic prisons. Aside from which, mages are canonically supposed to be badasses, yet the tower is the first place you go, and consequently, the wizards are some of the weakest NPC's in the game. The fact that dwarves, elves and humans can all interchangeably wear armor makes the game more convenient, but also makes no logical sense due to the differences in size.

 

[Bostur]

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

i understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you enjoyed all of biowares games then good for you, but it seems EVERYONE thinks bioware is one of the greatest game makers of all time

Your post makes me curious about why you think BW games are so bad. More specifically what other games do you compare them to that you think are better? On the PC platform there isn't a whole lot of titles to choose from in the RPG-flavoured genre.

I'm not saying I disagree with your assessment, but it seems to me to be a common description of most modern games.

 

[DustyDrB]

I like BioWare games because they typically have pretty good stories with fantastic characters, wonderful writing, deep and fleshed out worlds (or universes), and great gameplay.

 

[Outcast107]

see, i'm seeing alot of people claim interesting stories, but the mass effect games have rather flawed stories, since the entire of mass effect 2 is just being rail roaded, where you work with cerberus because you can't work with the alliance, you can't work with the alliance because you're working with cerberus. and is filled with plot holes, the first is about 10 minutes into the game where a terrorist organization manages to make a better ship than the entire allience could.

and hta characters aren't really that great, overlooking the fact that two of them (miranda and hte justicar) are shamelessly there for sex appeal, alot of them don't actually come in use in the big mission. why did you need 2 biotics experts if you only need one? why not bring more weapon experts?

I really don't see how the stories are flawed or where the plot holes are. You're working with Cerberus because they're doing something about the abductions. You aren't working with the Alliance because they're not. Also the Normandy SR-2 isn't really better. It just has more already available technology tacked onto the original design. Also the alliance has to worry about an entire species whereas cerberus are free to sink all their money into making one ship.

Not to get into a mammoth of a debate but ME2's main plot is the definition of a plothole riddled mess and lack much required exposition. To use the examples you touched upon, Shepard is forced to work with Cerberus disregarding their past atrocities and simply taking TIM's word at face value. Remember, we only discover after the Alliance and Council are inept we agree to sign up with TIM. This is particularly egregious for those who chose the Sole Survivor angle, wherein Cerberus was wholly responsible for the death of your squad and the horrific experimentation, yet Shepard never even brings it up. Other examples include but are not limited...

Spoiler

- Shepard's body being recoverable
- TIM's logic for reviving Shepard, or lack thereof
- Shepard being a brick
- Mordin pulling the plot device out of his ass
- Everything about Horizon, especially the horrendous VS exchange
- Most of the Collector Ship
- The derelict Reaper coming out of nowhere
- Everyone hilariously leaving the Normandy because the plot demanded it
- Basically the Suicide Mission amounting to "Lets bullrush it!" with no actual plan
- Baby Reaperminator, every little thing
- Destroying the Collector Base

All the above pertains to plotholes, inconsistencies, contradictions and/or lack of exposition in the narrative. Bluntly stated, no ME2's plot is not good. Where this game shines is in the recruitment and loyalty missions. Basically the secondary plots are why ME2 is an enjoyable experience from a narrative perspective. The main plot is damn well rubbish.

My god you are so wrong. Here is some plot hole filler.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2011810

 

[LWS666]

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

i understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you enjoyed all of biowares games then good for you, but it seems EVERYONE thinks bioware is one of the greatest game makers of all time

Your post makes me curious about why you think BW games are so bad. More specifically what other games do you compare them to that you think are better? On the PC platform there isn't a whole lot of titles to choose from in the RPG-flavoured genre.

I'm not saying I disagree with your assessment, but it seems to me to be a common description of most modern games.

it's not so much i feel there are alot of developers better than bioware, although new vegas and FO3 i felt were 10x better, it's that people seem to think bioware games are the shit but i just feel they're above average at best.