why do people like bioware games so much?

[BiscuitTrouser]

I dont really agree with much you said.

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

This doesnt really sound anything like a Bioware game. I am not a big Bioware guy, but writting, epicness feelings, conversations, gameplay, writting and story is what bioware games are most known for. It is alright if you don't like Bioware, but I think much of what your saying is biast.

Its like saying Crysis 2 looks ugly. I may not like the game, but the game looks amazing, and it has very good and intense gameplay

Well, there have been a lot of plotholes. Example: In the Dwarf commoner beginning storyline, a Dwarf rogue who is level 1 beats up canonically great warriors in a straight fight. It was immersion breaking.

In all fairness he/she did live in cut throat slums doing slightly shadey buisness for people. A merc like that would have skills comparable to your average arena participant.

OP: People think differently from you because people have different opinions. Deal with it. I LOVED ME1. Characters, dialogue, story, combat, RPG elements I LOVED TO BITS (thus why ME2 was a bit... meh for me) and brilliant back story. I actually related to characters. I did. Sometimes you cant understand someone else s opinion because... it isnt yours. You cant agree with them. Its not hard to understand.

Also if you say "EVERYONE loves it" I will bet you TEN MILLION DOLLERS in cash (i will provide my pay pall) that i can find someone who doesnt. You are not the only one. You are not special. People have a huge range of opinions.

I never said it was a bad game. In the original quote, the poster stated that there were plotholes, and a second poster quoted them stating that they had seen no plotholes. I corrected them.

A) If your character was a heavily experienced mercenary, they would have been higher than level 1.

B) The characters your fought in the arena were warrriors that had experiences that would have made them higher than level 1. And you fought them in a straight fight as a level 1 rogue.

This doesn't even scratch the surface of the plotholes in DA:O however. In the mage tower quest, the templars are overrun by....the very mages they are explicitly trained to fight. Templars have extremely high mental resistance so they can resist mind control, but many Templars get mind controlled. Templars have abilities designed to nullify all magic around them, but they get caught in magic prisons. Aside from which, mages are canonically supposed to be badasses, yet the tower is the first place you go, and consequently, the wizards are some of the weakest NPC's in the game. The fact that dwarves, elves and humans can all interchangeably wear armor makes the game more convenient, but also makes no logical sense due to the differences in size.

Theres a difference between "learning to stab with a dagger right" and practicing a true profession with tutors along the way and skills that you pick up from party members. You are level one because ALL level ones start with knowledge and basic instruction on how to fight with their chosen weapon. Heavily experienced in knife use. Not heavily experienced in being a rogue/mercenary with little tricks and skills.

B:And you know this howwww? These are nobles son. Tutored perhaps with riches but ZERO field experience. I think that matches up nicely.

The mage tower can be the last place you go. Its open world and levels with you, you pick the order you do quests. That was blood magic. The EXPRESS reason it is banned so forcefully is because the mind control is insanely powerful. Templar's are not immune to magic. The idea is that all of them can swiftly destroy a single abomination, perhaps a few if a ritual goes bad. Its about an even fight if the ENTIRE tower erupts into revolt which none of them predicted it would. Abominations are far more powerful than regular mages, its freaking daemon possession. Ill grant you this one, however ill counter with the fact that since the thread is about BIOWARE games, Mass effect accounted for this fact.

 

[Hamish Durie]

the whole masseffect is awesome through me at first and dragon age origins was........alright
but the reason i love bioware games is the writing

 

[RelexCryo]

I dont really agree with much you said.

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

This doesnt really sound anything like a Bioware game. I am not a big Bioware guy, but writting, epicness feelings, conversations, gameplay, writting and story is what bioware games are most known for. It is alright if you don't like Bioware, but I think much of what your saying is biast.

Its like saying Crysis 2 looks ugly. I may not like the game, but the game looks amazing, and it has very good and intense gameplay

Well, there have been a lot of plotholes. Example: In the Dwarf commoner beginning storyline, a Dwarf rogue who is level 1 beats up canonically great warriors in a straight fight. It was immersion breaking.

In all fairness he/she did live in cut throat slums doing slightly shadey buisness for people. A merc like that would have skills comparable to your average arena participant.

OP: People think differently from you because people have different opinions. Deal with it. I LOVED ME1. Characters, dialogue, story, combat, RPG elements I LOVED TO BITS (thus why ME2 was a bit... meh for me) and brilliant back story. I actually related to characters. I did. Sometimes you cant understand someone else s opinion because... it isnt yours. You cant agree with them. Its not hard to understand.

Also if you say "EVERYONE loves it" I will bet you TEN MILLION DOLLERS in cash (i will provide my pay pall) that i can find someone who doesnt. You are not the only one. You are not special. People have a huge range of opinions.

I never said it was a bad game. In the original quote, the poster stated that there were plotholes, and a second poster quoted them stating that they had seen no plotholes. I corrected them.

A) If your character was a heavily experienced mercenary, they would have been higher than level 1.

B) The characters your fought in the arena were warrriors that had experiences that would have made them higher than level 1. And you fought them in a straight fight as a level 1 rogue.

This doesn't even scratch the surface of the plotholes in DA:O however. In the mage tower quest, the templars are overrun by....the very mages they are explicitly trained to fight. Templars have extremely high mental resistance so they can resist mind control, but many Templars get mind controlled. Templars have abilities designed to nullify all magic around them, but they get caught in magic prisons. Aside from which, mages are canonically supposed to be badasses, yet the tower is the first place you go, and consequently, the wizards are some of the weakest NPC's in the game. The fact that dwarves, elves and humans can all interchangeably wear armor makes the game more convenient, but also makes no logical sense due to the differences in size.

Theres a difference between "learning to stab with a dagger right" and practicing a true profession with tutors along the way and skills that you pick up from party members. You are level one because ALL level ones start with knowledge and basic instruction on how to fight with their chosen weapon. Heavily experienced in knife use. Not heavily experienced in being a rogue/mercenary with little tricks and skills.

B:And you know this howwww? These are nobles son. Tutored perhaps with riches but ZERO field experience. I think that matches up nicely.

The mage tower can be the last place you go. Its open world and levels with you, you pick the order you do quests. That was blood magic. The EXPRESS reason it is banned so forcefully is because the mind control is insanely powerful. Templar's are not immune to magic. The idea is that all of them can swiftly destroy a single abomination, perhaps a few if a ritual goes bad. Its about an even fight if the ENTIRE tower erupts into revolt which none of them predicted it would. Abominations are far more powerful than regular mages, its freaking daemon possession. Ill grant you this one, however ill counter with the fact that since the thread is about BIOWARE games, Mass effect accounted for this fact.

Actually, you fight experienced champions, and soldier veterans in the Dwarf Commoner storyline. Templars are not immune to magic, but they can dispel all magic around them- which would make it impossible to imprison them in a magic circle- and they do have extremely high mental resistance, which would make it hard to mind control them.

And you can't just go whereever you want to go. Each area actually has a set level, but Bioware never actually tells you this.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Main_quests_(Origins)

Check out "Ideal Order" on the wiki page I just linked. The Circle Tower has the lowest level of the pre-set levels. Abominations are supposed to be amazing horrors...but they are quite literally some of the weakest things in the game.

 

[BenzSmoke]

Well, I like them for the colorful characters and dialogue that I actually didn't want to skip. Though I did want locations to be larger and more open, and combat gets really boring and repetitive in almost all Bioware games. As for plotholes, every game has those.

Spoiler: Plothole Example: (Fallout 3 Spoiler!)

In Fallout 3 additional super-mutants are created by taking captured humans to Vault 87 and exposing them to FEV. However, in the game world, the surface entrance to the vault is bathed in deadly levels of radiation. So how do the super-mutants get their captives into the vault without them dying of radiation sickness?

That said, I still didn't like how Cerberus became the faction in ME2. In the first one they were just cannon-fodder that only posed the same threat as the mercenary groups.

 

[Haagrum]

Bioware games generally have good writing. They have interesting characters, and usually a lot of humour. They're generally low on the gorn factor and aim to draw players in with actual gameplay and story. One of the most memorable things about Bioware games like Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age is the party banter. Just about every dialogue involving Minsc, or Zevran, has me laughing because I can visualise a character, not just a meatbag who's potentially valuable for their statistics and combat skills.

Furthermore, not every scene or dungeon needs to be "epic". Hell, some of their best work is in positively grim, nasty situations which are remarkable only because they're a race against time (in story). Not every scene has to end with the hero and his friends outrunning the detonation of a cave/corridor/ship/colony made of explodium. Not every discovery has to be interrupted by a dragon/boss fight/biotechnological terror.

As for the plot holes... well, I don't want to get drawn into this argument. I'll just settle for saying that if we presume we know everything relevant to the backstory of an imaginary world which is another person's intellectual property, and expect it to conform precisely to the information that we have been given, we're not being reasonable.

People dig the romances for a variety of reasons. Take ME2 as an example. Yes, Miranda is blatantly there as a third-person seductress for Shepard in ME2 (and Jacob's pretty much the same), but so what? It's the three-ring-circus strategy. If you like stories about profoundly damaged people finding comfort or peace, you'll probably gravitate towards Jack/Thane. If you're more intrigued by the "friends becoming lovers" archetype, you'll likely end up with Tali/Garrus. Or, you could just ignore that sub-plot and all its potential depth and just play the game.

I haven't played DA2, but I haven't been disappointed with any of Bioware's other efforts. I think that's a solid basis for liking their games. Opinions may legitimately differ on what makes a game good, and to the extent that anyone disagrees with me, that's fine.

 

[OpticalJunction]

Bioware is one of the few devs that can actually write a decent story and likeable characters. There's a HUGE lack of this in the game industry. I'm truly surprised other devs haven't copied their technique.

 

[redeemer09]

an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story

have you been doing beth young man?

 

[redeemer09]

plot holes are nearly non existent in bioware games.thats obsidians job

 

[Kahunaburger]

plot holes crashes to desktop are nearly non existent in bioware games.thats obsidians job

Bioware's quite capable of bringing the plot holes.

TIM: Hello, Shepard
S: Hello, Bond villain voiced by Martin Sheen.
TIM: Do you want to work for my hilariously evil terrorist organization despite the fact you have no reason to do so?
S: You are probably going to stab me in the back the first chance you get. But I'll work for you, because the writers decided to avoid branching plotlines in this game. (+2 Paragon.)

 

[Cyrax987]

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

i understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you enjoyed all of biowares games then good for you, but it seems EVERYONE thinks bioware is one of the greatest game makers of all time

Just like it seems everyone likes every Call of Duty game. Minority is the loudest and most of the time when I see a huge following of people that love all the Bioware games is on their forums. Its the internet so of course its easier to find more people that like a certain company's games.

In real life I have about actually three friends total that even know who Bioware is and two that actually like Bioware's games. Call of Duty on the other hand it seems everyone at my work loves the games since I get asked every year if I'm buying the new Call of Duty game.

 

[legendp]

so, i've been trying to figure htis out for a while about why people think the mass effect trilogy and dragon age 1 were such great games. whennever i think about them i think they have bad locations that don't feel as epic as they're trying to be made out, an impenetrable story with many, many plot holes, bad writing where alot of the background is in the pause menu rather than weaved into the story, akward conversation options and bland, boring gameplay.

i understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you enjoyed all of biowares games then good for you, but it seems EVERYONE thinks bioware is one of the greatest game makers of all time

Have you played mass effect 2 from begging to end?

Your opinion, I disagree with you, mass effect 2 in my eyes has the best story in any video game ever (portal 2 and halo reach close behind) and the soundtrack is epic. as for menues, I like how they basically removed that from mass effect 2. and location, mass effect 2 is based around the galaxy, not just one location and it manages to make you feel immersed in a potentially real environment. I don't really like dragon age and mass effect 1 was a bit slow (if you only played the first half hour of it you probably will not have liked it)

 

[legendp]

plot holes crashes to desktop are nearly non existent in bioware games.thats obsidians job

Bioware's quite capable of bringing the plot holes.

TIM: Hello, Shepard
S: Hello, Bond villain voiced by Martin Sheen.
TIM: Do you want to work for my hilariously evil terrorist organization despite the fact you have no reason to do so?
S: You are probably going to stab me in the back the first chance you get. But I'll work for you, because the writers decided to avoid branching plotlines in this game. (+2 Paragon.)

he worked for cerebus because they gave him valuable Intel

 

[redeemer09]

plot holes crashes to desktop are nearly non existent in bioware games.thats obsidians job

Bioware's quite capable of bringing the plot holes.

TIM: Hello, Shepard
S: Hello, Bond villain voiced by Martin Sheen.
TIM: Do you want to work for my hilariously evil terrorist organization despite the fact you have no reason to do so?
S: You are probably going to stab me in the back the first chance you get. But I'll work for you, because the writers decided to avoid branching plotlines in this game. (+2 Paragon.)

oh yeah totaly ignore hes surrounded by CEREBRUS operatives 24/7,totaly ignore they brought him back to life. gave him a ship, crew,dossiers to the toughest team ever brought together.there absolutely no reason any person to accept help from tim.its called a mutual relationship. you kno when two people decide for the best of both partys to join teams. to tel you the truth, in shepard shoes i wouldv'e done the same thing

 

[legendp]

he worked for cerebus because they gave him valuable Intel (sorry for double post)

 

[Kahunaburger]

he worked for cerebus because they gave him valuable Intel

Yeah, no other way Shep could have got that information.

oh yeah totaly ignore hes surrounded by CEREBRUS operatives 24/7,

That's a solvable problem, especially if you're Shep.

totaly ignore they brought him back to life. gave him a ship, crew,dossiers to the toughest team ever brought together.

And it would actually make more sense if Shep basically said "thanks for the stuff, suckaaaaa!" and went back to the Alliance.

there absolutely no reason any person to accept help from tim.its called a mutual relationship. you kno when two people decide for the best of both partys to join teams. to tel you the truth, in shepard shoes i wouldv'e done the same thing

Well, no reason other than the whole "bond villain" thing. And the "hilariously evil terrorist organization" thing. And the "for some origins, wiped out Shep's entire unit on Akuze" thing.

 

[Rodrigo Girao]

Bioware only made two good games: Shattered Steel and MDK2.

 

[Tien Shen]

Because Bioware games have memorable engaging characters and stories, meaningful plot-altering choices (except DA2) and better gameplay depth than the slew of generic shooters that have flooded the market. Admittedly I was a big fan of shooters in the past, but after COD:BO I got very bored because very little has changed with pure shooters in the years since COD4. I say pure shooters to distinguish them from RPGs like Fallout 3 and NV that can be played like shooters but are RPGs for the most part.

Also Bioware have stood out as one of the best WRPG makers out there. My great fear is that they are starting to streamline their games more to appeal to a broader market, ie casual gamers who IMO aren't exactly avid RPG fans to begin with. I cringe when I hear BW say they are taking cues from Gears of War and Halo when they talk about what they are working on for ME3 when I don't want anything to do with those overrated series. Also with DA2 they goofed badly and I could only ever stomach one playthrough, compared to the 5 playthroughs I did on DA1.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Spoiler: Plothole Example: (Fallout 3 Spoiler!)

In Fallout 3 additional super-mutants are created by taking captured humans to Vault 87 and exposing them to FEV. However, in the game world, the surface entrance to the vault is bathed in deadly levels of radiation. So how do the super-mutants get their captives into the vault without them dying of radiation sickness?

Not really a plot hole, but I can think of an inconsistency that appears much earlier on in the game, during the tutorial as a matter of fact...the PIP-Boy glove.

It's mentioned numerous times that the glove and PIP-Boy cannot be taken off right? So how does the Lone Wanderer manage to put on various gloves from different armour pieces (like Power Armour) without removing the PIP-Boy or glove? Not to mention the whole idea of never being able to take it off is just stupid.

OT: Why is that whenever someone mentions not liking Bioware they only mention the Dragon Age and Mass Effect series? They have made other games you know?

 

[F4LL3N]

I don't like Bioware games at all.

-Boring and cliche storylines, which wouldn't be a problem if they were actually good.
-Bland characters. Not terrible, but nothing at all special about them.
-Below average graphics.
-Crap choice making.
-Completely horrible and awkward gameplay. This is their biggest sin of all.

 

[legendp]

yeah he may have found out that info on his own but then he probably would have been too late to horizon and at the end of mass effect 2 (spoiler) if you be a full paragon sheperd walks away from cerebus.