Why do you think The Reapers did it?

[GabeZhul]

Question: I don't want to start splitting hairs, but are the Reapers really synthetic to begin with? I think they are more along the lines of bio-mechanical (taken that they need a huge amount of biomass when they are built) and only the starchild is synthetic AI (though again, he could be just an ancient VI...).
Actually, this is the main reason why I think the "Destruction ending" didn't kill all advanced synthetics because of laser-guided space-magic, but because it turned off/shorted out everything based on REaper-tech, like EDI (retrofitted with Reaper-tech by Cerberus), the Geth (using Reaper-algorithms at this point) and Shepard (Cerberus implants based on Reaper-tech). Makes more sense to me...

Actually a Bioware dev hinted that EDI could possibly, and I do mean its super unlikely but they might, be alive in a destruction ending universe for the extended cut DLC, but it isn't confirmed.

Also we know Shepard CAN live, so the "total destruction of synthetics" thing was obviously false information.

willingly false or not, is regardless.

Ugh. I rather prefer is she did not survive. I've heard some "leaked info" about an epilogue where, after the Destruction ending, Shepard's half-dead body is taken over by the Catalyst without anyone noticing, and to repair his implants they use EDI's components, and the whole thing ends in this weird cacophony of stupid where Catalyst Shepard flies away on a Reaper (you know, one of the things that should have been DESTROYED) while having a mental battle with EDI whether or not he should keep working on destroying civilization once again...
If the choices are EDI dying or this, I choose the former, thank you very much... -.-'

 

[370999]

Question: I don't want to start splitting hairs, but are the Reapers really synthetic to begin with? I think they are more along the lines of bio-mechanical (taken that they need a huge amount of biomass when they are built) and only the starchild is synthetic AI (though again, he could be just an ancient VI...).
Actually, this is the main reason why I think the "Destruction ending" didn't kill all advanced synthetics because of laser-guided space-magic, but because it turned off/shorted out everything based on REaper-tech, like EDI (retrofitted with Reaper-tech by Cerberus), the Geth (using Reaper-algorithms at this point) and Shepard (Cerberus implants based on Reaper-tech). Makes more sense to me...

Actually a Bioware dev hinted that EDI could possibly, and I do mean its super unlikely but they might, be alive in a destruction ending universe for the extended cut DLC, but it isn't confirmed.

Also we know Shepard CAN live, so the "total destruction of synthetics" thing was obviously false information.

willingly false or not, is regardless.

Ugh. I rather prefer is she did not survive. I've heard some "leaked info" about an epilogue where, after the Destruction ending, Shepard's half-dead body is taken over by the Catalyst without anyone noticing, and to repair his implants they use EDI's components, and the whole thing ends in this weird cacophony of stupid where Catalyst Shepard flies away on a Reaper (you know, one of the things that should have been DESTROYED) while having a mental battle with EDI whether or not he should keep working on destroying civilization once again...
If the choices are EDI dying or this, I choose the former, thank you very much... -.-'

that ending was a fabrication made up on 4chan which spread throughout the internet. It has been officially denied.

 

[GabeZhul]

Question: I don't want to start splitting hairs, but are the Reapers really synthetic to begin with? I think they are more along the lines of bio-mechanical (taken that they need a huge amount of biomass when they are built) and only the starchild is synthetic AI (though again, he could be just an ancient VI...).
Actually, this is the main reason why I think the "Destruction ending" didn't kill all advanced synthetics because of laser-guided space-magic, but because it turned off/shorted out everything based on REaper-tech, like EDI (retrofitted with Reaper-tech by Cerberus), the Geth (using Reaper-algorithms at this point) and Shepard (Cerberus implants based on Reaper-tech). Makes more sense to me...

Actually a Bioware dev hinted that EDI could possibly, and I do mean its super unlikely but they might, be alive in a destruction ending universe for the extended cut DLC, but it isn't confirmed.

Also we know Shepard CAN live, so the "total destruction of synthetics" thing was obviously false information.

willingly false or not, is regardless.

Ugh. I rather prefer is she did not survive. I've heard some "leaked info" about an epilogue where, after the Destruction ending, Shepard's half-dead body is taken over by the Catalyst without anyone noticing, and to repair his implants they use EDI's components, and the whole thing ends in this weird cacophony of stupid where Catalyst Shepard flies away on a Reaper (you know, one of the things that should have been DESTROYED) while having a mental battle with EDI whether or not he should keep working on destroying civilization once again...
If the choices are EDI dying or this, I choose the former, thank you very much... -.-'

that ending was a fabrication made up on 4chan which spread throughout the internet. It has been officially denied.

I hope so, but can you really blame me for considering this as an option after the "official" ending...?
But I digress, this thread is about the Reapers' motivations, not the ending. I should not derail it any more than this.

 

[Kiardras]

You know what I would have loved to see: If it would have turned out the the whole thing was a huuuuuuge xanatos gambit by the Catalyst, and the Crucible was, in fact made to solve the Dark Matter crisis, and the entire cyclic system was created so every 50k years the new species would add new insight and their best technologies to it until one of them succeeds building it and solves everything. How about that for a twist-ending?

What if a side effect of stopping the dark matter problem was the destruction of the reapers when the crucible fired?

Harbinger learns of this, and rebels (that theme again) against godchild, wiping out all life before they are advanced enough to finish the crucible (although each cycle makes a little more progress).

The reapers were originally designed to be the shepards of civilisation, uplifting those that reached a certain advancement by leaving the relay and mass effect technology in their path so they could advance to a level where they could solve the dark matter problem.

But gazillions of years ago, Harbinger learns that solving the crucible will destroy the reapers, so he resolves to alter his programming, instead of sheparding races into advancement, once they reach a certain point they descend to wipe them out, so they can never finish the crucible and never (inadvertantly) destroy the reapers.

Their only real motivation was survival.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I hope so, but can you really blame me for considering this as an option after the "official" ending...?
But I digress, this thread is about the Reapers' motivations, not the ending. I should not derail it any more than this.

I am actually talking about something besides the 4chan thing.

http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/Unofficial-Interview-with-Patrick-Weekes-conducted-by-a-fan-at-Pax---UPDATED-11154234-1.html

I find it funny when some people *cough*370999*cough* act like they know what other people are talking about when they dont.

just messin with ya 370999

 

[GabeZhul]

@Kiardras:
That... wouldn't really work out. After all, if Harbringer could just "change his programming" like that, why doesn't he change it so that he can destroy the citadel and the Catalyst? Or why doesn't he just wipe out ALL organic life so that they can never make the Crucible?

My theory would work a little better, since it would explain the biggest plothole leading up to the final battle: Why did the Reapers move the Citadel to Earth. They KNOW that the Crucible can, and if the opportunity is given, will destroy them, and that it needs the Catalyst to work. If they didn't do that, the council-races would never have been able to move that big-ass structure to the Citadel themselves.
However, if we presume that the Crucible was actually the final goal of the Reapers and that they actually wanted it to be joined with the Citadel to see if it would actually work, then yes, it would make a lot more sense...
Hmmm... Someone should totally turn this into a retconning fan-fic.

 

[Kiardras]

@Kiardras:
That... wouldn't really work out. After all, if Harbringer could just "change his programming2 like that, why don't he change it so that he can destroy the citadel and the Catalyst? Or why doesn't he just wipe out ALL organic life so that they can never make the Crucible?

My theory would work a little better, since it would explain the biggest plothole leading up to the final battle: Why did the Reapers move the Citadel to Earth. They KNOW that the Crucible can, and if the opportunity is given, will destroy them, and that it needs the Catalyst to work. If they didn't do that, the council-races would never have been able to move that big-ass structure to the Citadel themselves.
However, if we presume that the Crucible was actually the final goal of the Reapers and that they actually wanted it to be joined with the Citadel to see if it would actually work, then yes, it would make a lot more sense...
Hmmm... Someone should totally turn this into a retconning fan-fic.

I'm not a writer, it kind of just spilled out lol.

But yeah, your idea sounds a hell of a lot better than what we got.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Well The citadel also has a bunch of guns on it and is made of the same uber-metal both The repaers and The Relays are made out ot of, which as I recall is stated in the codex to be nearly indestructible.

I wouldn't be surprised if The Reapers were trying to use the citadel as a weapon.

 

[GabeZhul]

@Kiardras:
That... wouldn't really work out. After all, if Harbringer could just "change his programming2 like that, why don't he change it so that he can destroy the citadel and the Catalyst? Or why doesn't he just wipe out ALL organic life so that they can never make the Crucible?

My theory would work a little better, since it would explain the biggest plothole leading up to the final battle: Why did the Reapers move the Citadel to Earth. They KNOW that the Crucible can, and if the opportunity is given, will destroy them, and that it needs the Catalyst to work. If they didn't do that, the council-races would never have been able to move that big-ass structure to the Citadel themselves.
However, if we presume that the Crucible was actually the final goal of the Reapers and that they actually wanted it to be joined with the Citadel to see if it would actually work, then yes, it would make a lot more sense...
Hmmm... Someone should totally turn this into a retconning fan-fic.

I'm not a writer, it kind of just spilled out lol.

But yeah, your idea sounds a hell of a lot better than what we got.

Fufu... Sorry if I came off as a little patronizing. I am actually a writer (sort of, long story, don't ask...), so I have this stupid habit of tearing everything I read apart looking for inconsistencies and plotholes, be it forum-post or a video game about the space-cuttlefish apocalypse.

Speaking of which, why cuttlefish...? I mean, yeah, I brought the whole Lovecraftian angle up a few times already, but seriously, why would a species design a sentient battleship with appendixes like that...?
Unless of course, if the species that made the original Reapers were actual giant cuttlefishes floating around like the Hanar... The Suul'ka, [http://swordofthestars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Suul%27ka] anyone?

 

[370999]

I hope so, but can you really blame me for considering this as an option after the "official" ending...?
But I digress, this thread is about the Reapers' motivations, not the ending. I should not derail it any more than this.

I am actually talking about something besides the 4chan thing.

http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/Unofficial-Interview-with-Patrick-Weekes-conducted-by-a-fan-at-Pax---UPDATED-11154234-1.html

I find it funny when some people *cough*370999*cough* act like they know what other people are talking about when they dont.

just messin with ya 370999

cheers, didn't know about that until now.

Sorry GabeZhul, I did honestly think you were talking abotu another permutation fot he 4chan thing.

 

[Acton Hank]

Why wouldn't they get "a chance at life" if the reapers didn't kill them? Humans didn't go extinct when they first discovered the relays, they just joined the ranks of other older space traveling races...

The logic is a stupid solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Have you even played the game? The gist is that Organics, once advanced enough, will inevitably create a race of synthetics which will rise against them and WOULD exterminate all organic life WERE IT NOT FOR THE REAPERS. You see, the reapers harvest the organic races that are advanced enough to create synthetics, while leaving those more primitive alone. Its all to guarantee that life will continue, instead of being completely exterminated by the Synthetics.

I have no idea what your comment was trying to prove or put forth.

Except it doesn't inevitably happen because I brokered a peace between the Geth and the Quarians...

And why would synthetic life exterminate ALL organic life in the galaxy? Even pre space flight organic life? Organic life that doesn't have anything to do with them and poses no direct threat? The Geth isolated themselves from other races for hundreds of years and had no interests attacking organics, and they only acted in self defense after the quarians attacked them, so why does the catalyst say that it's inevitable? And why don't I have the option to bring up the Geth and the Quarian peace in the conversation since synthetics vs organics supposedly plays a big role? Did no one think this ending through?

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Because what alse do you do when you're an ancient immortal species of giant super squids? Play football and drink wine with you're friends?

 

[rigabear]

Let's consider a period of infinite time (the time frame the Reapers operate in).

If you accept that there is the TINIEST possibility at any point that synthetic life will wipe out organic life at some point it WILL happen (considering the infinite time period). And of course there is the possibility; it almost happened to the Reapers.

Now once organic life is wiped out, there is no reason for it to come back, so that's it: organic life is over forever.

Consider the 'equation':
Organic life existing for an indefinite time period (or cycles) > organic life existing for a fixed period (i.e. however long before being wiped out)

This applies even if it's organics' existence is much happier/enlightened/whatever during that fixed period(and this is not a given) if you are valuing organic life just for the sake of it (which the Reapers clearly are).

Now the higher the odds of this extinction, the shorter the time period on the right of that equation and the shorter the Reaper arbitrated time that is preferable. And if the Reapers have seen it happen before (almost) then perhaps the time frame is very short indeed.

The only way to stop this happening is to eliminate any possibility; i.e. keep organics (the creators of synthetics) backwards. This is surer than being a synthetic police, for reasons thoroughly covered.

Seems like suitably machine-like logic to me.

Note that the absorbed organics' consciousness' may exist in the Reaper body in some sort of virtual heaven. It may even be a happier, better existence - who knows, but if their sole purpose it to preserve organic life they are not going to treat their guests like crap.

Qualifiers:
However I suppose this breaks down where you accept the possibility that both organic and synthetic life may transcend such definitions and become gods or what have you. Or some other event that I cannot imagine at which the extinction of organic life is impossible or irrelevant.
Alternatively you might think life is life, and synthetics are the next step of evolution and so preserving organic life at the cost of synthetic is unjustifiable. But I guess that is something else entirely.

 

[Zealous]

Well according to pre ME3 story changes, the Reapers were supposed to be working on solving that dark energy problem like the one on that planet where you recruit Tali in ME2. They wanted to harvest humans because our species was versatile (in terms of genetic diversity and inherent botic ability or something and we could somehow help them solve the dark energy problem.
Of course all that went out the window in ME3 with the addition of the Crucible, Catalyst and all that other shit...

 

[Anti Nudist Cupcake]

The reapers did it because the Catalyst was a dumbass and told them to do so because apparently it couldn't stick an augmented organic into its magic light beam to cause the synthesis BILLIONS OF YEARS AGO and thus create eternal peace between organics and synthetics. Instead it decided to go with the whole complicated cycle thing, because killing is justifiable by more killing.

 

[Emiscary]

Reproduction, pure and simple. The extinction cycle? Literally the Reapers chain fucking the galaxy.

 

[Sanguinedragon]

It's funny. ALL of these, including the joke ones, are better explanations than what we got.

just this