Why do you think The Reapers did it?

[MomoElektra]

snip

Actually the movie end Of Evangelion is considered to be "the outside of Shinji's head" events of the shows ending.

Relevance?

No I am not being ridiculous because you claim Sovereign said he an The Reapers hate organic life, yet they never did and you have failed to bring up any examples of them saying they did.

Pearls before swines. I'm just lazy.

You are making a claim, yet offering no evidence to support it. Ironic that you are hating on The Catalyst for the same thing.

also hypocritical.

Interesting. You had no problem with it when you did it.

And yet you have provided nothing to prove that ISN'T fact either.

Ehm, sure I did. There is still organic life in the galaxy. What more proof do you need?

If you cant prove it isn't a fact you cant say it isn't, and cant tell people they are wrong for saying it is.

It's impossible to prove a negative. But I can say that your position is only approved by the star child and disproved by game lore.

Wonder if your tactic works the other way around, too:

You can't prove I am wrong, so you must accept that I am right.
Does it work yet?

And again the aryin race is ONE SPECIFIC SUBSET of life, the Reapers DONT TARGET ANY SPECIFIC SUBSET and instead KILL ALL LIFE.

Ehm, I believe you made a little error here that will bite you in the butt.
The Reapers kill all technologically advanced organic life, which is a subset of all life.
And if, as you say, the Reapers kill all life you cannot at the same time have them saving all (organic) life. Choose wisely.

Your inability to tell the difference between protecting only a specific subset of life and all life is frankly astoundingly pathetic and frankly scary.

I have no problem with that thought as such, I mean it's not difficult. I consider it barbaric and uneconomic, and stupid and what not. But I can tell the difference. So what?

If by "common knowledge" you mean, "your own twisted views of how anything that resulting in genocide MUST be Nazi related" sure.

Where do you pull the "related" from? I never said it was related to the Nazis. I said there are similarities, in thought and action.

The Reapers having a unfalsifiable hypothesis doesn't not make them wrong. It makes them impossible to prove wrong.

Yes, no objection. It also makes you defending an unfalsifiable hypothesis that leads to genocide. You defend genocide (if fictional). Now who's scary?

There is a very large difference which you seem to be unable to understand

Name it.

I could easily point to all of humanities past that proves lasting peace in impossible, and synthetics lack of needs for organics, and the eventuality of war to show that a organic synthetic war is inevitable.

If you could you would have done already and you have been pointed out for the flaws in your logic many times, by several people. So I don't think you can.

Furthermore the lack of need of Organics by Synthetics makes is exceedingly possible that they might just decide to whie us out.

Synthetics need organics to invent them. Why should they hate their creator?

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reapers
first line
"The Reapers, known by the geth as the Old Machines, are a highly advanced machine race of synthetic/organic starships"

Ah, well. So the only group wiping out organic life is not the synthetics, but a synthetic/organic hybrid? Interesting way to still prove my point that the Reapers are the problem, not organics or synthetics.

 

[Unsilenced]

The only thing that even comes close to evidence in favor of the Reapers is statements from the Reapers.

This would not hold up in court.

Think about it, you're about to shank an entire civilization in the gut for it's shoes. What do you tell it?

"Oh yeah. We, like, need to do this. Totally. All sorts of destiny and shit up in here. You wouldn't understand."

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

It is relevant because you tried to make out the movie as being a different ending to the shows ending, which it wasn't. Or have you forgotten what you yourself typed?

Hypocrite

Except I haven't done it

Only because The reapers have prevented synthetics from killing all organics between then and now. So the fact that organic life still exists can be used to prove the reaper's cycle works.

Excet nothing in the games lore proves the Catalyst wrong. Making peace with the geth does not ensure the peace will last, that the geth wont kill all organics one day, that future synthetics can be reasoned with, that future synthetics wont try to kill everything. there is literally NOT A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE that proves the reapers wrong.

The difference is that the reapers do not pick their targets based on hate, or a belief that they are somehow worse then The Reapers, or a belief that primitive organic life is better then advanced organic life. Which is something the Nazis did

You seem to not be able to tell the difference based on your repeated assertions that Reapers = Nazis

dont even try to claim you didn't say the Reapers were like nazis or that their ideals weren't related to them, because you did.

Defending genocide in fiction shows nothing about my beliefs of it, or things related to it, IRL, so I dont see how it would make me scary. Beyond that all options in the Me series lead to some genocide eventually, its what level of severity you want that is in debate

Being able to prove someone wrong means you can debunk their statement as being not true. For a unfalsifiable hypothesis it is impossible to prove it not true, thus you cannot prove them wrong, and thus you can't claim that they are. The fact that it realizes on a fallacy is irrelevant. If someone were to say there is a invisible, intangible horse that cant be observed by any means in the middle of a room you cannot prove them wrong and cant say that they are wrong, and you cant say someone who believes that they are right is wrong.

Except no one has disproved my statement of lasting peace being impossible is wrong, no one has disproved my statement that there would eventually be some reason, be is resources, a hate crime, or something else, that would eventually cuase a war, and no one has disproved that even if THAT war is one there wouldn't be a war in the future organics lose. NOTHING has been disproved.

Because organics are naturally intolerant of anything that isn't them, and said intolerance leads to hate and violence against things they dont like, and given enough violence synthetics may eventually conclude that despite being created organics, said organic aggressions is too dangerous and unpredictable for synthetics to be able to reasonably secure their kind from violence

Except I haven't proved your point at all. If anything the fact that organics still live could be used as evidence for the Reapers cycle working, and thus them being right.

 

[MomoElektra]

snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.

 

[Acton Hank]

snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.[/quot

snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.

The ending actually made something good come out of Jack and Jill...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ald_TeYZDw

 

[Something Amyss]

Because Ponies.

Would make sense, maybe their bio-synthetic material tends to degrade and they need organics to "buff up" and stay intact.

Which is fine, provided you ignore canon.

But quite frankly they don't need a reason, least one they feel the need to share with us.

Which is fine as long as you're not telling a story with intended answers.

That made the Reapers both mysterious and terrifying, like they existed on a plane of thinking that we couldn't comprehend and were so much more powerful than us, like they treated us how we treat ants.

Or they just made us think "Fridge Logic," because that's what it was.

Even worse when the God-Child was introduced, because it indicates they are designed by someone who is ostensibly superior, yet both illogical and willing to deem you worthy of communication and explanation.

EDIT: You know what made the Reapers mysterious and terrifying? A lack of information and BIG HONKING SPACE SQUIDS. Higher thinking was unnecessary and poorly done.

 

[kasperbbs]

For sport of course! See who can squash more tiny humans!

 

[Killertje]

The reapers did it because they were programmed to. By the startwat. Because he is the VI of a 5 year old with flawed logic.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

They are more like collectors, except they collect whole races and make them reapers. I guess they see it as saving older races although they have yet to say if races agreed to it or are able to communicate freely as a reaper. Can a reaper speak for the race its made of? Or is the race just the bricks and mortar and nothing else?

 

[Suomimaster]

We, as organics, cannot understand nor comprehend the reason for why Reapers do it.

We are nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident.
The Reapers simply are[i/].
The pinnacle of evolution and existence.
They have no beginning. They have no end.

WE CANNOT EVEN GRASP THE NATURE OF THEIR EXISTENCE!

It would have been interesting if they hadn't told the reason why Reapers go kill frenzy every 50k years. To me, the Citadel could have been the Reaper collective, and when Citadel is blown apart Reapers would just shut down or be critically weakened.

 

[Ricky 49]

it takes the reapers 50,000 years to fully calculate Pi.....they don't like the answer so they harvest all advanced civilizations that are aware of Pi to see if they have got a better answer. with the new cycle harvested the reapers think they may now have key to a good answer to Pi. so they spend 50,000 years calculating with the new harvested civilizations. they return each cycle thinking maybe this time we will find the key to our problem.

 

[VoidWanderer]

To me it is like I, Robot.

Assigned to protect a particular system, their programing tells them to cull any threats. After doing this for millenia, they come to a pattern.

10 Kill all advanced civilizations
20 Sleep
30 GOTO 10

 

[MrFalconfly]

Easy.

They want to exterminate all life that has developed to the point of being capable of creating AI.

They do this to give other life a chance in the galaxy (NOT to make sure YOUR kind of life survives, just ANY kind of "intelligent" organic life).

But why destroy I hear you ask? Well technically they aren't as much destroying as they are storing the information.

 

[Sirron Kcuch]

I thought the Reapers came from some elder race which overcame an Instrumentality [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AssimilationPlot?from=Main.Instrumentality], just as the one in Evangelion, but in a spaceship instead. Then, since that Reaper was the only one of its kind it started to feel lonely (weird, since it is actually billions of minds fused together) and tried to create itself some company. Thus, the Reaper "race" began to develop, being their life cycle a 50k year long harvesting of spacefaring races.

 

[Hyper-space]

Why wouldn't they get "a chance at life" if the reapers didn't kill them? Humans didn't go extinct when they first discovered the relays, they just joined the ranks of other older space traveling races...

The logic is a stupid solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Have you even played the game? The gist is that Organics, once advanced enough, will inevitably create a race of synthetics which will rise against them and WOULD exterminate all organic life WERE IT NOT FOR THE REAPERS. You see, the reapers harvest the organic races that are advanced enough to create synthetics, while leaving those more primitive alone. Its all to guarantee that life will continue, instead of being completely exterminated by the Synthetics.

I have no idea what your comment was trying to prove or put forth.

 

[Asita]

Really? show me the words were he states "We The Reapers hate organic life"

In as many words? Reading between the lines sheds some light on the Reapers attitudes.

"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident"
"You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it"
"We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotton, we will endure"
"The time of our return is coming. Our numbers will darken the sky of every world. You cannot escape your doom"
"Your words are as empty as your future. I am the vanguard of your destruction"

Really, the attitude presented doesn't exactly mesh well with the idea beings which value organic life. One of the introductory lines for them flat out trivializes it, and the later ones come out as outright antagonistic towards it. At best, the Reapers come off as an abusive boyfriend who hits you and then tells you its for your own good. At worst, it comes off as something from one of George Carlin's standup routines about God[footnote]You know. The bit where he goes on about how 'religion' (his phrasing, not mine) claims that God's looking down at everyone all the time waiting for them to screw up so that he can send them to Hell for an eternity of torture, and then comes the punchline "But he loves you". If it's not ringing a bell, you can find the routine here[/footnote]

Harbinger doesn't come off much better and its dialogue very much suggests that the Reapers don't care about organic life, they care about useful organic life.
"Quarian. Considered due to cybernetic augmentation. Weakened immune system too debilitating."
"Drell. Useless. Insufficient numbers."
"Human. Viable possibility. Aggression factor useful if controlled."
"Human. Viable possibility. Impressive genetic malliability."
"Human. Viable possibility. Impressive technical potential."
"Human. Viable possibility if emotional drives are subjugated."
"Human. Viable possibility. Great biotic potential."
"Asari. Reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness."
"Salarian. Insufficient lifespan. Fragile genetic structure."
"Krogan. Sterilized race. Potential wasted."
"Turian. You're considered...too primative."
"Geth. An annoyance. Limited utility."
"We are limitless. You are bacteria."
"Your worlds will be our laboratories."
"You are vermin."
"They are vermin."
"Take what is useful. Destroy the rest."

Again, not exactly presenting the Reapers as if they're concerned with organic life in a general sense, just the ones they can use.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

The Reapers do it for fun. Shepard's just a party pooper.

 

[Leodiensian]

After thinking about it, my theory is this:

Rather than being the creations of a "First Race", the proto-Reapers were the creations of a First-Race-contemporaneous "Second Race" as weapons of war to be used against the more powerful First Race. (For this theory to work, suppose for the sake of argument that the First Race is somehow more militarily powerful without necessarily being the most technologically advanced; think about the difference between the turians and the salarians) However, as the Reapers are true AI's and thus capable of independant decision-making, the Second Race needed to 'indoctrinate' their Reaper creations to believe that it was necessary to cull the First Race; the First Race were too advanced, they were keeping other species and civilisations from being able to naturally evolve and flourish. This was made core programming to the Reapers, something so fundamental to them that they have never considered changing it - that we know of, at least. We know they upgrade their hardware, but we've never really seen the Reapers upgrading their own software.

The Reapers followed their creators programs and sure enough devastated the First Race, giving the Second Race freedom. How do they do this? Indoctrination. The First Race was too mighty a force to fight directly, so the Second Race created the Reapers to turn the First Race against themselves; this strategic pattern will go on for millions of years, softening up the target with internal strife before a decisive strike against population and political centres, adapting First Race technology (biology and mentality) into themselves to ensure victory in all theatres, as well as allowing them to make up for any losses suffered in the war. The Mass Relays are seeded to distribute Reaper units across the Galaxy, piggy-backing one to the next with the Citadel/Catalyst acting as a central 'co-ordinator'.

Fifty thousand years pass. The Reapers go hibernate, their mission accomplished; they're the ultimate WMD, capable of galactic genocide and thus no-one wants them to get used. The descendants of the Second Race (for the sake of this theory, let's call them the Third Race) have spread across the galaxy, having taken prime position. Which is when the Reapers wake up again. Their programming has started up again; the Third Race is no longer identifiable as the Second Race (culturally and perhaps biologically) that created the Reapers in the first place. But they've set themselves up as the target now; they're the most advanced civilisation in the galaxy, keeping others from developing. So the Reapers do what comes naturally to them; indoctrinate, assimilate and destroy. Then retreat to Dark Space and start scanning the universe for signs that it's time to get back to work.

As the Reapers assimilate organics, the existential fear of synthetics they were feeling at the time imprints upon their collective consciousness; while retaining intelligence and independence, they can't quite gel this with their core ideology/programming, as well as their self-aware status as synthetics, causing them to suffer a kind of cognitive dissonance. Their self-justification for their own existence changes to become simultaneously organic cultural and evolutionary equality AND the prevention of AI-genocide. It's like the ghost of a murder victim possessing the murderer, but neither quite being aware of the true identity of the other. I don't think the Reapers are aware of the paradoxes they've been building right into themselves. Their core programming, their entire raison d'etre, remains and they have no reason to change it because they don't see why it doesn't really fit with what's happening now.

In this theory, I don't think fifty thousand years actually is a hard and fast 'rule' the Reapers have for when the next Harvest begins. I think it's just a sufficient amount of time to guarantee that a civilisation advanced enough to trigger the Reaper's programming; they wait for galactic civilisation to reach a certain standard, perhaps something to do with the amount of space occupied by a small number of species, or how often the races are using the relays. I think it's a rule of thumb rather than something written into them. After all, I don't think they'd risk the possibility of some particularly fast-developing species (such as humanity) popping up and getting to such a point that when the 50K mark comes around, the Reapers find themselves completely outclassed.

My interpretation at least.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.

I dont change the meaning of words at all.

And I do get what you saying because you try to force feed it at every turn "The reapers using genocide is not an acceptable option and makes them like Nazis"

Funny becase Lost had a ending I actually enjoyed.

I thought the Reapers came from some elder race which overcame an Instrumentality [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AssimilationPlot?from=Main.Instrumentality], just as the one in Evangelion, but in a spaceship instead. Then, since that Reaper was the only one of its kind it started to feel lonely (weird, since it is actually billions of minds fused together) and tried to create itself some company. Thus, the Reaper "race" began to develop, being their life cycle a 50k year long harvesting of spacefaring races.

that would have been a cool motive.

Although in instrumentality individuality doesn't eixst, those billions of mind become one, so there could be loneliness.

 

[GabeZhul]

@Leodesian. Fascinating theory, though it becomes a little jumbled as it goes on. However, you know what would have been even better? If Bioware would have actually explained anything in the ending so we didn't need to make theories on the first place... I mean, seriously, they dumped an exposition-fairy (starchild) right into the middle of the ending, they might as well made him, you know, explain things...? -.-

Seriously, I have seen a dozen or so really creative and sometimes even ingenious explanations about the Reapers' origins and motivations, but in the end they are all just theories, and even though one can piece together a somewhat satisfying explanation to the "Wait, you kill organics to stop the killing themselves?" question, they are still not canon and we have no idea what really was going on. I really hope the "Epilogue DLC" will shed some light on these questions as well...

@SajuukKhar: Errr... Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, there is no "collective consciousness" in the Reaper bodies. When harvesting, they are just preserving the genetic material of the race, not its thoughts or culture. In that regard, the instrumentality angle kind of falls flat... So yes, cool motive, but not really feasible.