Why do you think The Reapers did it?

[Leodiensian]

Gabe, remember that the ending was rushed by Bioware's own admission due to the original script being leaked. In the original, the Reapers DID have a "collective consciousness" reasoning behind their harvesting; that's why they take the most advanced civilisations and make Reapers out of them. They were trying to create Reapers intelligent and capable enough of fixing the dark matter crisis that was originally going to be the main 'bad guy'.

But I disagree that the Reapers should have had their origins explained at all - I think explaining their motives a little is acceptable, but not necessarary. I think leaving the Reapers still partially shrouded in mystery is necessary for them to remain interesting; like Sovereign says, they simply ARE and they don't feel the need to explain or introduce themselves to you. This is really basic storytelling - the answer will never ben as interesting as the question.

 

[SajuukKhar]

@SajuukKhar: Errr... Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, there is no "collective consciousness" in the Reaper bodies. When harvesting, they are just preserving the genetic material of the race, not its thoughts or culture. In that regard, the instrumentality angle kind of falls flat... So yes, cool motive, but not really feasible.

Sovereign states that each reaper is a nation in itself.

Also a single gestalt entity made up of all of humanity wouldn't have the same thoughts as individual humans nor would it particularly care for culture.

 

[GabeZhul]

Gabe, remember that the ending was rushed by Bioware's own admission due to the original script being leaked. In the original, the Reapers DID have a "collective consciousness" reasoning behind their harvesting; that's why they take the most advanced civilisations and make Reapers out of them. They were trying to create Reapers intelligent and capable enough of fixing the dark matter crisis that was originally going to be the main 'bad guy'.

But I disagree that the Reapers should have had their origins explained at all - I think explaining their motives a little is acceptable, but not necessarary. I think leaving the Reapers still partially shrouded in mystery is necessary for them to remain interesting; like Sovereign says, they simply ARE and they don't feel the need to explain or introduce themselves to you. This is really basic storytelling - the answer will never ben as interesting as the question.

Actually, I'm not completely satisfied with the "Dark Matter" twist either (if they don't want civilizations to overuse Element Zero, they why the hell did they give them the ropes by leaving the Mass Relays lying around?), but it's still better than the "To save organic life from the synthetic life it hasn't even created" plot. So... I guess we have to blame the guy who leaked the original script, huh?

As for the Reaper's origins, yeah, I actually have to agree with you. If I think about it, the reapers were a lot more interesting in the first game, where they were just this ominous, incomprehensible force, kind of like some Lovecraftian horror. Much of that were already destroyed by ME2 and ME3, but you are right, explaining their origins would just turn them into "yet another race in the galaxy"...

P.S.: Also, I just realized: In the original "Dark Matter crisis" script, destroying the Relays would have made sense. I mean, what better way is there to cut down on Ezzo usage than shutting down the long-range transport system...? Which begs the question why the Reapers let the operate this far on the first place, but whatever...

 

[GabeZhul]

@SajuukKhar: Errr... Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, there is no "collective consciousness" in the Reaper bodies. When harvesting, they are just preserving the genetic material of the race, not its thoughts or culture. In that regard, the instrumentality angle kind of falls flat... So yes, cool motive, but not really feasible.

Sovereign states that each reaper is a nation in itself.

they are singular entities made up of the minds of countless lifeforms.

The only problem I have with this one is the whole "minds" issue. As we have seen during the suicide mission in ME2, they are turning people into this protein-soup when they make the a new Reaper, and even THAT protein-stew gets turned into the husk-metal when it's built in. Where is the mind in that...?

Yes, your argument is valid, he said that, but empirical evidence shows otherwise, so... I guess we are just missing a step? Once again, a little more info on BWs part might have been nice...

 

[Leodiensian]

Well, if we accept the original scripts motivation for the Reapers (seed the progress of organic life, then harvest when it reaches a pinnacle to make Reaper babies) you could interpret the whole Mass Relay thing as a necessary evil in order to speed along the progression of the civilisations they need to cull. Like Sovereign says, they needed the Mass Relays and the Citadel so that organic life would follow along certain predictable 'paths' to make the harvest possible.

 

[Joccaren]

Their reason was incomprehensible, and I would never understand it.
Would have made it far better IMO if we never learned the Reapers motives. There was no real need to learn that.

 

[GabeZhul]

@Leodiensian:
Hmmm... True. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel like Bioware just wanted to be really-really clever and give the reapers some "depth", but they kind of got entangled within their own story while trying to give the franchise a twist-ending.

You know what I would have loved to see: If it would have turned out the the whole thing was a huuuuuuge xanatos gambit by the Catalyst, and the Crucible was, in fact made to solve the Dark Matter crisis, and the entire cyclic system was created so every 50k years the new species would add new insight and their best technologies to it until one of them succeeds building it and solves everything. How about that for a twist-ending?

@Joccaren: Either that, or give full explanations. The problem is that we got some explanation that makes little sense. Both ends of the spectrum would have been fine, but we are stuck in the middle instead... -.-'

 

[SajuukKhar]

The only problem I have with this one is the whole "minds" issue. As we have seen during the suicide mission in ME2, they are turning people into this protein-soup when they make the a new Reaper, and even THAT protein-stew gets turned into the husk-metal when it's built in. Where is the mind in that...?

Yes, your argument is valid, he said that, but empirical evidence shows otherwise, so... I guess we are just missing a step? Once again, a little more info on BWs part might have been nice...

In NGE all individuals just became goo also, their minds weren't really absorbed in a noticeable way, yet shinji was able to mentally talk to them post-death.

 

[Leodiensian]

@Leodiensian:

You know what I would have loved to see: If it would have turned out the the whole thing was a huuuuuuge xanatos gambit by the Catalyst, and the Crucible was, in fact made to solve the Dark Matter crisis, and the entire cyclic system was created so every 50k years the new species would add new insight and their best technologies to it until one of them succeeds building it and solves everything. How about that for a twist-ending?

That makes WAAAY more sense than what actually happened and has the added bonus of making War Assets matter in the same way that ship upgrades mattered in 2. The best ending is getting the Crucible to the Citadel and Harbinger going "Oh hey, you guys finished it? Okay, we're cool. Sorry about that whole 'glassing your entire civilisations' thing". The other, less-good endings involve the Crucible detonating the relays, or getting destroyed before it can be fully activated..

 

[GabeZhul]

The only problem I have with this one is the whole "minds" issue. As we have seen during the suicide mission in ME2, they are turning people into this protein-soup when they make the a new Reaper, and even THAT protein-stew gets turned into the husk-metal when it's built in. Where is the mind in that...?

Yes, your argument is valid, he said that, but empirical evidence shows otherwise, so... I guess we are just missing a step? Once again, a little more info on BWs part might have been nice...

In NGE all individuals just became goo also, their minds weren't really absorbed in a noticeable way, yet shinji was able to mentally talk to them post-death.

One very small problem with that: That is the NGE universe, this is the ME universe. You cannot make direct parallels between the two like that.
ME is supposed to be relatively hard science fiction ("relatively" being the key word here). Yes, we had some REALLY silly things (resurrected Shepard, space-magic-explosion, etc.) that are only explained in stride, but when I see that a person is turned into goo and dies in front of my eyes, I presume they turn in to goo and die, NOT transcend to collective consciousness. But maybe it's just me.

 

[Strazdas]

Because they knew that organic life forms, given the chance, will create their own doom. They also knew that people work together the best when united agasint a clear enemy and not agasint eachother, therefore a "big outside threat" coming once in a while is what created progress in the universe without the organics destroying themselves. Infact Reapers saved the galaxy, nto destroyed it.

 

[SajuukKhar]

One very small problem with that: That is the NGE universe, this is the ME universe. You cannot make direct parallels between the two like that.
ME is supposed to be relatively hard science fiction ("relatively" being the key word here). Yes, we had some REALLY silly things (resurrected Shepard, space-magic-explosion, etc.) that are only explained in stride, but when I see that a person is turned into goo and dies in front of my eyes, I presume they turn in to goo and die, NOT transcend to collective consciousness. But maybe it's just me.

Given the whole "essence" thing, it seemed like NGE to me always.

 

[GabeZhul]

One very small problem with that: That is the NGE universe, this is the ME universe. You cannot make direct parallels between the two like that.
ME is supposed to be relatively hard science fiction ("relatively" being the key word here). Yes, we had some REALLY silly things (resurrected Shepard, space-magic-explosion, etc.) that are only explained in stride, but when I see that a person is turned into goo and dies in front of my eyes, I presume they turn in to goo and die, NOT transcend to collective consciousness. But maybe it's just me.

Given the whole "essence" thing, it seemed like NGE to me always.

Opinions. You see it that way, I don't, there is nothing wrong with that. We don't have clear evidence for either, so it's up to interpretation, and your is not any more or less valid than mine... Unless of course we are both missing something (like, say, the reapers work like the Geth, and their mainframe is made of people, or that the or they actually copy and download people's minds before turning them into goo or something), but that's another matter entirely.

 

[Leodiensian]

Because they knew that organic life forms, given the chance, will create their own doom. They also knew that people work together the best when united agasint a clear enemy and not agasint eachother, therefore a "big outside threat" coming once in a while is what created progress in the universe without the organics destroying themselves. Infact Reapers saved the galaxy, nto destroyed it.

Except the Reaper's whole MO is to turn the galaxy against itself precisely to PREVENT unity from occuring - that's what indoctrination is for.

 

[WanderingFool]

My theory is that the reapers, are all very advance AIs capable of acting on their own and such, but they are all controlled by a singular AI (the Star Child). The SC however, is more like a VI, while its capable of independant thought and such, its still very simple. Its unable to actually look at a situation and wonder if there is a better way to do it, it just keeps doing what it was programed to do without question. Because it never had a situation where its programing was compromised it kept doing it (it being the genocide cycle). It wasnt until Shepard showed up that it realised something was wrong with its programing. However, it was never given the means to diagnose its error, and could only continue what it was doing. But it did have additional commands should something like this happen, and with Shepard there, Shepard could put into motion one of those plans.

As for why Star Child and the Reapers exist? I would say the Reapers were made by some crazied scientist (bonus points if the scientist lost his family to a massive genocide from a actual synth-organic war), and he made the star child to command them to prevent this from happening again.

 

[Hagi]

Most logical to me is still the Apex Predator doing it for their own survival explanation.

The explanation given in the game really doesn't make sense to me as it assumes some kind of fundamental difference between synthetic and organic life. Even though the entire rest of the series had as one of it's major points that the two weren't so different after all.

That synthetics can 'feel', it's what EDI's entire development is about. Discovering morality, emotion and personality.
That organics can act purely logical, that's basically TIM summed up. Without a care for ethics he goes with what his calculations have shown to give the biggest numbers in the future.

Even in the major plotlines it's heavily represented. The Quarian-Geth conflict is all about the Geth not having acted on pure logic but instead on some emotion they weren't even really aware of. They don't know why they're preserving Ranoch, they just do.

The entire Genophage is an example of organics going with the pure logical train of thought. Yes, it was ethically shady and had a huge emotional impact on the Krogan. But when going purely by the numbers you needed to match the number of Krogans being born to their very long lifespan.

Or take the Rachni as a race. They think in hive minds, like the Geth do. They share memories and knowledge across generations, like the Geth do. When alone their workers and soldiers are basically mindless, like lonely Geth. And they could be redeemed, just like the Geth.

Even in the Protheans. They were a slaver race that ruled the galaxy. They're exactly what people fear Synthetics may become except that they're organic.

And then in the end the Catalyst goes "Nah! That's all wrong. It's simple. Organic = good. Synthetic = evil. Ignore me being synthetic by the way, that's not relevant at all."

 

[GabeZhul]

Question: I don't want to start splitting hairs, but are the Reapers really synthetic to begin with? I think they are more along the lines of bio-mechanical (taken that they need a huge amount of biomass when they are built) and only the starchild is synthetic AI (though again, he could be just an ancient VI...).
Actually, this is the main reason why I think the "Destruction ending" didn't kill all advanced synthetics because of laser-guided space-magic, but because it turned off/shorted out everything based on REaper-tech, like EDI (retrofitted with Reaper-tech by Cerberus), the Geth (using Reaper-algorithms at this point) and Shepard (Cerberus implants based on Reaper-tech). Which would also mean that if Legion did not upgrade the Geth, they would have survived.
Huh. Makes more sense to me...

 

[SajuukKhar]

Question: I don't want to start splitting hairs, but are the Reapers really synthetic to begin with? I think they are more along the lines of bio-mechanical (taken that they need a huge amount of biomass when they are built) and only the starchild is synthetic AI (though again, he could be just an ancient VI...).
Actually, this is the main reason why I think the "Destruction ending" didn't kill all advanced synthetics because of laser-guided space-magic, but because it turned off/shorted out everything based on REaper-tech, like EDI (retrofitted with Reaper-tech by Cerberus), the Geth (using Reaper-algorithms at this point) and Shepard (Cerberus implants based on Reaper-tech). Makes more sense to me...

Actually a Bioware dev hinted that EDI could possibly, and I do mean its super unlikely but they might, be alive in a destruction ending universe for the extended cut DLC, but it isn't confirmed.

Also we know Shepard CAN live, so the "total destruction of synthetics" thing was obviously false information.

willingly false or not, is regardless.

 

[DSK-]

I'm not sure. I mean, those jetpacks and and akimbo handguns must be pretty sweet to use though. Also, I'm pretty sure that they were normally taken from the most hardened, aggressive of criminals in order to be reapers. Don't think they had much of a choice.

 

[370999]

Well we know why they did it. Honestly if it was my decision, I would of had their motivation being kept really simple, they do it for simple self interest, we farm wheat, they farm galactic civilizations. They cultivate them, have them mature and then harvest them. I like the whole inhuman anonymity of it, your culture's greatest works, it's finest monuments and ideas will be stripped and taken and nothing will be left. And this will happen again and again.

Honestly I'm in the camp that we really don't need to know much about the Reapers, just that they have to be stopped. It's not their story, it's the story of Shepherd and this current galaxy.