'Why Does Link have to be Female?'

[Angelblaze]

So wait, Angel, you just found out that Team Ninja might not be responsible for your favourite heroine's and series' fall from grace and find out who actually is in the same instance, and you don't even care enough to do a damn Google search or Wikipedia the guy? Rather you immediately ignore it 'cus you hate Team Ninja, even though they aren't responsible for the writing you hate so much? I don't think you care about Samus or Metroid all that much Blaze.

Here, lemme help you out: http://bfy.tw/6SP6

nothing got in the game without his say-so.

Saying this is totally meaningless.

Saying that is the truth, nothing more. Team Ninja's "involvement in the creative process" extended as long it was to Sakamoto's liking. There is literally no more to it. I hope the concept of 'person who is in charge of something' isn't lost on you. Seeing the rest of your post I'm not so sure.

But hey, it's nice to see you pretend facts mean nothing, only to then act as if your half-baked conjecture about how the game was written, "ungh, he wrote something in THEIR style" and how you "think" everyone is a baddy carries more value then easily verifiable information. And then you have the gall to throw at me that I'm making shit up? When all you've been doing is broadcasting your ignorance with "likely"es, "probably"s, "feel's like"s and my favourites "would and wouldn't"s about stuff you clearly have nary a clue about? Please.

Unless you can provide a source saying that Sakamoto ruled over the development with an iron fist, what you call "easily verifiable information"... You got nothing. The difference is that I happily admit that I'm going off what I assume based off of what I see. You, apparently have 'dat truf doe'.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Wait, I'm confused...are we talking about Link, or Samus?

 

[Maze1125]

Wait, I'm confused...are we talking about Link, or Samus?

Plot twist: They're the same person!

 

[Pseudonym]

In my honest opinion, its because Team Ninja FUCKED the Metroid fanbase and they want their Link back. Link doesn't have to be female, but it'd nice to, you know, have OUR ORIGINAL FEMALE SPACE Link back. But I'd like a few second opinions; why you do think people are asking for a female Link?

Ehm. Don't you think metroid fans just want another, better metroid game? It seems to me like you are ignoring what people who want a female link are saying (I have not heard any mention of metroid so far in this recent discussion, your post being the first to bring this perspective to my attention) and ignoring what metroid fans are saying and are making up a rather convoluted reason for people to want certain things. If this is the reason people want a female link they'd have said it, I think. But most people whom I've read or watched about this didn't mention metroid at all. Maybe some people think like you said they do. You have a quote in the OP, I don't know where from or whether this is something you think someone might say.

Now, people were indeed annoyed by other M, partially because of the way a female charactar was threathed. That game had a story with a theme of motherhood and various moments which gave some insight in Samus' charactar and most people agree that this was handled very poorly, possibly sexist depending on who you ask, and contradicting Samus' charactar and plain common sense according to most people I've heard complaints of. I'd also argue that there were at least some gameplay and presentation issues which would have been a concern in any game, but the major complaints about other M concern the story for most people.

But other M on its own is too small an incident for large groups of people to want a female link because of just that. There has in recent years been more intensive and broad discussion about the place of women in society. This has had its effect in gaming, and because of that many people now feel there should be more women in leading roles in video games. And now it has specifically been suggested by a far larger group than usual that one of the links could be a girl. I don't believe Other M alone could have spurred that on if only because the specific thought, "a female main charactar has been ruined, we need another female main charactar" would be bizarrely specific and a very weird jump if there wasn't years of context for it and even then is still a weird jump.

Your explanation seems far more convoluted than it needs to be. There are on the one hand, years of broad heated discussion about women in gaming, and on the other hand, a dissapointing game in another nintendo series with a female lead. Which of these is more likely an explanation for discussion about the gender of link?

 

[JohnZ117]

Link was actually named because the character is intended as a "link" between the player and the game world. As gaming becomes more and more popular, the woefully under-acknowledged female player base is becoming more vocal about representation (something I agree with). By the character's very nature, Link's gender is the most logical (and, not just for Nintendo games) to be up to the player's decision. It has nothing to do with "Other M."

 

[Phasmal]

I dunno, maybe because Link actually could be female because he's not always the same guy, he's a reincarnation?
But apparently the Hero just won't reincarnate if it's not into a cis dude. Because reasons. And like, fine, it's a bit flimsy but what-the-fuck-ever.

And to be honest, I'd be interested in a female Link (I'd be more interested in a playable Zelda, but I'll take what I can fucking get), and I don't even like Metroid.

I know, I know, it's a Nerd Sin, but I'm just not keen.

 

[Saltyk]

I dunno, maybe because Link actually could be female because he's not always the same guy, he's a reincarnation?
But apparently the Hero just won't reincarnate if it's not into a cis dude. Because reasons. And like, fine, it's a bit flimsy but what-the-fuck-ever.

And to be honest, I'd be interested in a female Link (I'd be more interested in a playable Zelda, but I'll take what I can fucking get), and I don't even like Metroid.

I know, I know, it's a Nerd Sin, but I'm just not keen.

Considering that Nintendo is a Japanese company, isn't it more likely that Link in Japanese? Sort of like Cloud, Goku, Sailor Moon, and most characters in Japanese properties...

Edit: Wait. I misread your comment. Thought you said "cis white dude". Because I literally always see that combination of words.

It really doesn't matter you me, though. I haven't played a Nintendo game in freaking decades. If anything, I'd rather see Zelda as the protagonist. I even stated a good was for that to happen in an earlier thread.

 

[K12]

I think it's extremely simplictic to argue that a shit game with an iconic female protagonist needs to be karmatically balanced by making a game with a female version of an iconic male character. It'd make more sense to just ask for a new, and much better, Metroid game right?

I'm totally on board with having a female Link (or a Link with a selectable gender) since he's the most audience-avatar-like of nintendo's classic protagonists and (more importantly) virtually every game is a completely separate story with a new incarnation of Link.

 

[Yoshi178]

I don't like Zero Suit Samus or regular Samus or Nintendo in general.

FTFY.

I also wish they'd stop doing the 3D games in first-person with auto-aim.

you aren't particularly fond of the Metroid Prime games ok that's fair enough.

Metroid is supposed to be in third-person.

Says who?

the majority of third-person metroid games have been mediocre at best, with the only 3rd person games being ACTUALLY good were Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission which was just a remake of the original game with Metroid fusion mechanics and graphics slapped over the top of it.

and on top of that, Super Metroid was the only one of those to be released before any of the Prime games.




saying Metroid is supposed to be in 3rd person is like saying Mario is supposed to be entirely 2D Sprite games. Why is Metroid not allowed to evolve as a series?

 

[rcs619]

Just cheap and lazy enough to feel good about it being different while also being exactly the same.

To be fair, that's basically the Legend of Zelda series as a whole.

Individual games are fun and all, but as a franchise, it's been telling the exact same story just with shinier graphics for 20 years now. The only games in the series that really tried to diverge from the norm were Wind Waker and Majora's Mask (this is also why they're arguably the two best, if not the two most interesting, games in the franchise).

I say make Link a girl for a change because Link isn't even really a character. He's a voiceless, emotionless player-avatar. He's just kinda... there, and winds up getting drawn into the exact same story every time. Hell, give players a choice at least. Link never actually has any sort of romance with anyone, so letting people choose whether or not this era/timeline's incarnation of Link is a guy or a girl wouldn't even affect ingame interpersonal relations any.

Mostly it'd be something slightly different in a franchise that has been beyond stale for about 10 years now. If they're going to make a point about different timelines and the primary cast being reincarnated across eternity again and again, go whole-hog with it. Go full-on Quantum Leap or Sliders and have some of the timelines *really* diverge

Also... badass, heroic ladies are fun. Always down for more of them.

 

[Vigormortis]

Why does Link have to be female? Well, he doesn't. He also doesn't have to be male.

He's the definition of a blank slate. He has no distinct personality. He doesn't really speak through his actions. Those around him barely acknowledge him as anything but a tool. He doesn't have a voice. He doesn't even really have any history or lore to build a character on beyond "the hero of , reincarnated". He's rarely even referred to as male by most of the NPCs.

Link can be female for the same reason he's male. Because he's literally nothing but a walking, generic hero stereotype. A plain avatar for the player. You would lose nothing within the story or lore if he were female.

In fact, Nintendo could do something profoundly compelling and inclusive with a Zelda game. Give the player the option to choose the sex of Link and Zelda. That way, everyone wins and nothing is lost.

Win/win. The only losers are the whiny bigots.

and I don't even like Metroid.

I know, I know, it's a Nerd Sin, but I'm just not keen.

Sinner! Heathen! Blasphemer!

How dare you commit such heresy? I hereby banish you to the deepest, darkest, dankest pits of SJW Hell!

Spoiler

Consequently, before you, you know...go to SJW Hell, I just wanna add that I agree with your prior point. I think a Zelda-centric Legend of Zelda game would be neat. And, dare I say, apt, given the series title...

 

[Musou Sadie]

1st off: Metroid Other M is a good game, everyone who hates on it has no idea what they are talking about, probably sexists and racists too.
2nd: Link is a man, always was, always will be, how it should be, play ReCore if you're so much of a sexist that you think females need special treatment. Stop being racist also.
3rd: Never ever.
4th: Cool Cat Loves to Boogy Woogy
5th: huh?

 

[Something Amyss]

Edit: So apparently I'm crazy for thinking that people wanting a female link are people who want a female action lead video game, which we would have if we had another Metroid game. My bad. Deepest apologies.

I wouldn't call you crazy, but as someone who will likely not play another Metroid game, and thus don't really care about Samus' fate one way or another, I'd still like a female Link or selectable gender option. I don't tie the two together. I'd like more female action leads, period. I don't think having a couple of big names will change that for most of the people asking for a female Link anyway.

We're half the population. It's weird that a couple drops in the bucket are such an extraordinary ask in the first place.

For the record, Team Ninja has never been credited as the writers for Mother. That blame rests solely on the shoulders of Yoshio Sakamoto, one of the co-creators of Metroid in the first place.

Oh crap. Does that mean the people who hate the game are censoring his creative freedom?

One thing that shocks me is that the game is almost six years old, yet this still has to be explained. I know Team Ninja is an easy scapegoat, but come on, you'd think people would stop lying to themselves after six years.

You should be familiar by now with the number of things people accept, uncritically, as fact.

For the record, this is the first time I've actually heard this. People have always complained about Team Ninja., 100% of the time I've heard this discussion come up at all. And, TBH, I don't have enough investment in the Metroid series anymore to care enough. Sorry, shrekfan, but I despise 3D Metroid. So it was "good enough."

I imagine a lot of people don't really care about writing credits on games. I know I don't.

T
I think people are asking for a female Link because they think that that amount of creative bankruptcy is perfectly fine and dandy, especially if they are of the deluded mind that it's somehow balancing out arbitry discrepancies.

"Creative bankruptcy" has been Nintendo's bread and butter for decades. I have trouble imagining people are going into the 135th Zelda game expecting a complete reinvention of the wheel, no. I mean, Mario, Pokemon and Zelda are some of the biggest franchises in gaming. You've basically described all three of them with:

Just cheap and lazy enough to feel good about it being different while also being exactly the same.

Hell, I'm not even sure why Zelda as the protagonist would qualify as something different. Or a new character. In fact, the outrage over a new character for a side game that was only rumoured at the time is less than a year old.

Also, when the official line from Nintendo is "what would Link do?" if Zelda was the hero, I'm pretty sure they're not even hiding their creative bankruptcy, so can we really expect more?

And to be honest, I'd be interested in a female Link (I'd be more interested in a playable Zelda, but I'll take what I can fucking get), and I don't even like Metroid.

The weird thing is, I've always viewed a female Link as a compromise. There was so much outrage and bile at the notion that Zelda being the lead in her own game made me think "okay, fine. Why not a canonically female Link then?" and now that people are asking for that, the response is "why not make Zelda playable?"

So now I'm confused.

Also, my Link already has a girl's name. Link's already a rather effeminate boy in a dress with a girl's voice, so I don't get that this is the line that must be drawn.

 

[shrekfan246]

Sorry, shrekfan, but I despise 3D Metroid.

You wound me.

Admittedly, part of the reason I like Metroid Prime and can't get into the 2D Metroid games is because I just can't stand the feeling of movement and momentum in the 2D games. I don't like how Samus controls in the 2D games, while I can easily handle how she moves in the Prime games.

 

[Something Amyss]

You wound me.

As the Green Goblin said, first we strike at your heart.

...that worked out for Gobby, right?

Admittedly, part of the reason I like Metroid Prime and can't get into the 2D Metroid games is because I just can't stand the feeling of movement and momentum in the 2D games. I don't like how Samus controls in the 2D games, while I can easily handle how she moves in the Prime games.

I just really don't like anything about the Prime series. Admittedly, I probably wouldn't have even played the games if they didn't have the Metroid name on them, so that might have biased me some.

 

[chocolate pickles]

Link doesn't need to be female, and I honestly don't see the point. There seems to this big thing about gender swapping at the moment. Here's an idea - why not just create new female protagonists, rather than trying to rewrite old ones?

Besides, if gender is supposed to be irrelevant in modern society, then it shouldn't actually matter if Link's male. Making him female should add nothing to the character.

 

[shrekfan246]

You wound me.

As the Green Goblin said, first we strike at your heart.

...that worked out for Gobby, right?

Do you want to be Willem Dafoe or James Franco?

...

Ironically, the option that seems worse at first is probably the better choice.

Admittedly, part of the reason I like Metroid Prime and can't get into the 2D Metroid games is because I just can't stand the feeling of movement and momentum in the 2D games. I don't like how Samus controls in the 2D games, while I can easily handle how she moves in the Prime games.

I just really don't like anything about the Prime series. Admittedly, I probably wouldn't have even played the games if they didn't have the Metroid name on them, so that might have biased me some.

Aw. I mean, I won't try to convince you otherwise, but damn, I've been pining for more first-person shooters that crib level design from Prime because I find it way more interesting than the slightly curvy linear corridors that tends to make most of them up (I mean that from an overall world design perspective rather than individual room design, since Prime is, of course, made up of a lot of curvy corridors).

 

[MysticSlayer]

At this point, I honestly believe that some people simply don't know. I mean, it's pretty easy to find, but it's still something you have to actually look up because it's not like he's credited as the writer on the box or anything. People know that Team Ninja developed it, and they know that Team Ninja developed Dead or Alive, so clearly that must be why the story of Metroid: Mother sucked, right?

I would accept that for people who don't care that much about Metroid. I find it hard to accept when I've been in conversations with Metroid fans who, after having Sakamoto's role pointed out, do their best to dismiss the idea that he was responsible.

I just wondering: So forgetting Other M, Samus is also a mute, blank slate character. So what do you think would be the reaction if people asked that Samus be male in the next game, or at least there be a male option? After all, Other M was such a failure Nintendo are most likely going to reboot Metroid at some point and going off the fact they pretty much live off of the nostalgia sale, they'll return to the mute, blank slate Samus of old.

Since the problem here is that they ruined Samus's character, doing anything but going back to the pre-Other M Samus would just make things worse.