'Why Does Link have to be Female?'

[Canadamus Prime]

I'm sorry, but you're connection between Metroid: Other M and the whole female Link thing is lost one me.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Lets cover this. First I enjoyed Metroid: Other M. It's got it's flaws mind you the biggest being that Samus is kind of submissive. Which if we're being fair springs primarily from the fact that Team Ninja were apparently too good for the ol' Samus gets hit really hard and loses all her power ups but wouldn't you know it those Chozo bastards had duplicates of almost everything strategically placed around the area crap. It needs some work but I'd be happy to see more games in that style.

Further more lets take a quick moment out to ding Nintendo. Because it's not just Metroid: Other M. The one time Princess Peach was finally given the lead role (and lets face it every single one of us had that idea when we were like six years old) Nintendo decided that her super power was PMS.

So we're talking to swings and two strikes from where I'm sitting.

Now onto female Link. Let me preface this statement with I haven't played Skyward Sword but it's my understanding that actually sheds some light on 'why gannon'. I have to separate In-verse from Out of Universe here. Out of Universe the Zelda games were only loosely tied together prior to probably Wind Waker and Nintendo has effectively retconned them together. The reality is that the Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time are essentially like Star Fox, Star Fox 64 and apparently Star Fox Zero (haven't played, only read the reviews). Remakes with new titles. So it makes sense that everybody looks the same, has similar backstories, yadda yadda. In Universe however no explanation has been given (or maybe I missed it) for why the three key players are always the same genders and races. Assuming Gender is roughly a 50/50 coin toss the fact that there is no female Link or Gannon, nor a male Zelda is actually a bit puzzling. Ever since I heard the speech Gannon gives in Wind Waker essentially about how much is sucks to live in a desert while your neighbors have an oasis I've wondered what would happen if the characters swapped around. A King Gannon of Hyrule dominating over the weak Gerudo and their leader Zelda and then Link (gender unimportant.)

TLDR: Unless there is a specific reason why Link, Zelda and Gannon cannot reincarnate as the opposite sex we are well past the point where all of them should have had at least one cannonical genderbend because it's more probable than not. If there is a reason now is definitely the time to reveal why Link needs a penis and it could be as simple as the concept that souls do have genders or at least preferences.

 

[Yoshi178]

I don't like Zero Suit Samus or regular Samus or Nintendo in general.

FTFY.

I also wish they'd stop doing the 3D games in first-person with auto-aim.

you aren't particularly fond of the Metroid Prime games ok that's fair enough.

Metroid is supposed to be in third-person.

Says who?

the majority of third-person metroid games have been mediocre at best, with the only 3rd person games being ACTUALLY good were Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission which was just a remake of the original game with Metroid fusion mechanics and graphics slapped over the top of it.

and on top of that, Super Metroid was the only one of those to be released before any of the Prime games.




saying Metroid is supposed to be in 3rd person is like saying Mario is supposed to be entirely 2D Sprite games. Why is Metroid not allowed to evolve as a series?

I don't think that's an evolution for Metroid. I dislike it in RE7 and I'd be complaining if they did it to Zelda or Mario or Max Payne or MGS. Third-person has a few benefits, like being able to see your surroundings better and see where your body is in relation to the environment (which is a nice alternative to having peripheral vision and a sense of touch), which would make a difference in a platform heavy action-adventure game. I never finished any of the Metroid games, but I understand that in the first game her sex was a surprise at the end. We're not supposed to be in her head.

Metroid Prime was basically a 1st person Super Metroid. and both of games frequently appear high up on "Best Game of All time" lists.

1st person for Metroid makes sense for using things such as Scan Visor and X-Ray visor. it's also much better for the Grapple Beam where in Super Metroid the Grapple Beam controlled pretty awkwardly, in the Metroid Prime games, it feels so natural you basically feel like a Giant Metallic Spiderman swinging through the air. and on top of that shooters are very much suited to both 1st person and 3rd Person as we all know.


the only reason you've given me there for Metroid not being supposed to be in 1st person is

I never finished any of the Metroid games, but I understand that in the first game her sex was a surprise at the end. We're not supposed to be in her head.

and really, that's a pretty weak case against the Prime games.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

I wouldn't mind seeing Linkle out there more. Yeah, her name is iffy, but I like her character, and she's a potent destroyer of asses in Hyrule Warriors with a neat quest series all her own.

I'd like to see more Samus. Shooter, side scroller, or both. I dunno. Maybe make a Space legend of Zelda with Samus as the main character?
I mean the OP is right in one thing. We want our powerful female figure back. At least I do. It doesn't impact my desire to see something shaken up in a LoZ game one way or the other, though.

In a weird way, it might help distract people wanting, well, someone in terms of a strong female figure in games where we traditionally din't get any.

 

[Yoshi178]

I also find having a raised arm with a gun always in my face tiring and unrealistic.

so basically you don't like FPS games period.

 

[Fhqwhgod]

I hate the Prime series. Metroid was great in 2D. Prime ruined it for me. Not because it's a shooter but because shooters don't work on console. Never have, never will.

 

[Gamerpalooza]

What's the fixation with wanting a female Link to begin with anyway?

If you want female leads then support games that bring them to the forefront.

Yet when you have a game like Bayonetta what does the media do? Well it shuts down all the potential for that to happen.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I also find having a raised arm with a gun always in my face tiring and unrealistic.

Didn't you just have a thread where you wanted omnidirectional sprinting, regardless of how unrealistic it was?

 

[happyninja42]

What's the fixation with wanting a female Link to begin with anyway?

Because not everyone wants to play a male protagonist. Namely a large number of female gamers would like to have female protagonists that they could enjoy playing as, for the self-insert quality. It's why I personally prefer games with a male protagonist, because it's easier for me to insert myself into the role when I share the gender of the person I'm playing. Plenty of women and girls are the same way. My 3 god daughters all, if given a choice of characters to play as, (in games like Hyrule Warriors for example), pick a female character, because they enjoy them more.

If you want female leads then support games that bring them to the forefront.

Great idea! ....how many of those are they actually putting out? Not many, and that's part of the problem, especially with Nintendo. They're so petrified to try new IP's, they've been rehashing the same 3 IP's for 30 damn years. So fans of Nintendo (and LoZ in particular), are expressing a desire for them to show some variety. Basically "If you're never going to make a Hyrule game with a female protagonist, because you have decided that the Hero of Hyrule is always Link, then we want a female Link sometimes."

Yet when you have a game like Bayonetta what does the media do? Well it shuts down all the potential for that to happen.

....how did the media shut down the potential for that to happen? We have 2 Bayonetta games. That is the opposite of shutting down the potential for that to happen.

 

[DefunctTheory]

What's the fixation with wanting a female Link to begin with anyway?

It's the natural test ground for the gender flip/increased female representation argument, because Link lives is a very rare spot. Making Gordon Freeman, or Master Chef, or Mario change genders does have some... unfortunate implications. Namely, how do you explain that shit.

Link doesn't have that problem, because while Link has been fairly consistent in appearance over the years, the lore of the game is pretty clear that it doesn't have to be so. Link could be a girl, or technocolored, or a midget. The only limiter, it appears, is that he has to be Hylian.

Honestly, I don't think there's a huge population of people demanding this happen because the Zelda games are special or popular or whatnot. It's just a case of Link being the most easily, least jarring popular video game hero that could make the switch.

 

[happyninja42]

It's the natural test ground for the gender flip/increased female representation argument, because Link lives is a very rare spot. Making Gordon Freeman, or Master Chef, or Mario change genders does have some... unfortunate implications. Namely, how do you explain that shit.

Question. Are you stating this in the context of a character who in-universe has a gender flip? Or just the meta representation of the character? Because in-universe, it's super easy:

Gordon Freeman: Crazy genetic experimentation by the aliens (who already have biotechnology to turn people into crabhead zombies. No reason they couldn't bio-engineer a vagina where a penis is.

Master Chief: Never played these games, but he's already the subject of radical biochemical alteration with the Spartan program, again, no reason he couldn't get a plumbing change. Perhaps he get's royally fucked up like Shepherd does at the start of ME 2, and they have to totally rebuild him, and it's easier for them to rebuild him as female because reasons.

Mario: Super easy, he eats a mushroom/flower and turns into a woman. He's turned into racoons, fire breathing dude, a tanooki (whatever the fuck that is), and any number of bizarre creatures that we totally accept as valid. Why not have a plant that he chomps down on that changes his plumbing (haha! Plumber reference!)

If you mean in the meta-representation, as in a reboot of the franchise with a gender swap, then they don't have to explain it at all. In that scenario, Gordon, Master and Mario have always been female, case closed.

Honestly, I don't think there's a huge population of people demanding this happen because the Zelda games are special or popular or whatnot.

I dunno, the game franchise has been around long enough for several generations of kids to have grown up playing them, and have them be an integral part of their personal culture. The mother of my god daughters is a huge Zelda fan, and she'd love to have a female Link to play, and I know her girls would too. Or at the very least let Zelda actually have center stage in her own damn game line. So I think there is a significant population that want to see this, but I do think it's mostly because, they think like I do (and I could be wrong here), that they're never going to get a spinoff game, because Nintendo is too scared to try that as a business, so they HAVE to play as Link, if they want to enjoy the fun of the world of Hyrule. So if they are forced to play Link, they'd like a female Link at some point. Or at least the option for one at the start, to be able to pick a male/female link.


Though that does remind me, I was discussing this with a friend of mine last night. How much of this hesitation to make a femLink is possibly due to the gender social structures in Japanese culture? I know only vague bits of how it works, but is it possible that a lot of it is just simply due to their culture frowning on representations of women in power? In roles as anything other than a support role/love interest?

It's just a case of Link being the most easily, least jarring popular video game hero that could make the switch.

Given how much blowback they've been getting on this subject, I wouldn't agree that he's the least jarring. He seems to be equally jarring as any other male protagonist they are suggesting changing.

 

[DefunctTheory]

It's the natural test ground for the gender flip/increased female representation argument, because Link lives is a very rare spot. Making Gordon Freeman, or Master Chef, or Mario change genders does have some... unfortunate implications. Namely, how do you explain that shit.

Question. Are you stating this in the context of a character who in-universe has a gender flip? Or just the meta representation of the character?

In universe, and you know damn well all of those 'suggestions' are pants-on-head retarded. As opposed to Link getting flipped, which isn't even a 'proper' gender flip, it's just a gender role reversal with different characters.

Honestly, I don't think there's a huge population of people demanding this happen because the Zelda games are special or popular or whatnot.

I dunno, the game franchise has been around long enough for several generations of kids to have grown up playing them, and have them be an integral part of their personal culture. The mother of my god daughters is a huge Zelda fan, and she'd love to have a female Link to play, and I know her girls would too. Or at the very least let Zelda actually have center stage in her own damn game line. So I think there is a significant population that want to see this, but I do think it's mostly because, they think like I do (and I could be wrong here), that they're never going to get a spinoff game, because Nintendo is too scared to try that as a business, so they HAVE to play as Link, if they want to enjoy the fun of the world of Hyrule. So if they are forced to play Link, they'd like a female Link at some point. Or at least the option for one at the start, to be able to pick a male/female link.

If you say so, I guess.

Though that does remind me, I was discussing this with a friend of mine last night. How much of this hesitation to make a femLink is possibly due to the gender social structures in Japanese culture? I know only vague bits of how it works, but is it possible that a lot of it is just simply due to their culture frowning on representations of women in power? In roles as anything other than a support role/love interest?

Seeing as I get my throat kicked in every time I try to talk about an Asian culture, I'll leave the speculation to you. I'm already in a nasty fight at the moment and don't need seconds.

It's just a case of Link being the most easily, least jarring popular video game hero that could make the switch.

Given how much blowback they've been getting on this subject, I wouldn't agree that he's the least jarring. He seems to be equally jarring as any other male protagonist they are suggesting changing.

I was referring to the least jarring narrative, not to the best fan received possibility. All your examples are eye rollingly stupid, not because of the gender change, but just because those are all things people would rightfully call an ass pull if they were really put into place. Just really stupid. Where as you don't really need to change anything to make Link female - There's a dozen Links already, and there's no lore reason for all of them to be male. Particularly since most Links don't get it on with Zelda (Only the 'first' (NES) Link is implied to become King, as I recall), so there isn't even a 'must be descended from both Zelda and old Link' requirement.

Tl;dr - Most characters, if gender flipped, end up eliciting the question 'But why do it?' When it comes to Link, the question becomes 'Why not?' And as far as I can tell, no one's come up with a reason, besides 'Muh Links.'

Where as I think most people could very rightfully claim that 'Aliens dun gave'em a vajay jay' is a very dumb narrative answer.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yet when you have a game like Bayonetta what does the media do? Well it shuts down all the potential for that to happen.

Yeeeeeah...it wasn't the lack of sales, it was the lack of media approval that really "prevented" fetish fuel from happening.

Given how much blowback they've been getting on this subject, I wouldn't agree that he's the least jarring. He seems to be equally jarring as any other male protagonist they are suggesting changing.

Honestly, as "salty" as the reaction has been over a girl Link, it seems relatively civil by contemporary standards.

 

[Yoshi178]

I also find having a raised arm with a gun always in my face tiring and unrealistic.

so basically you don't like FPS games period.

The genre's overrated and severely overdone. But no, I don't dislike it entirely. There are some standouts.

make up your mind.

you either don't like having a raised arm with a gun always in your face or you do like it.

 

[Samechiel]

Isn't the reason Link is always a boy is because he's the reincarnation of the goddess Hylia's Chosen Hero?