We don't mock! We just point out their little errors in... thinking and stuff, lol.Baradiel said:
Why Homosexuality Should be Banned
- Thread starter Snowy Rainbow
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Personally, I think the only real answer to the gay marriage question in the long term will be to simply completely detach the legal and religious concepts of marriage, and the only way to do that is going to be to separate the verbage.Shikua said:
So give gays civil unions, and do so as part of a process of calling "legal marriage" civil unions, and making it clear that legal marriage is a separate "thing" from religious marriage. If your church then wants to claim that any given couple isn't *really* married because they are gay, interracial, belong to a different faith, or whatever -- more power to them; it has no effect on how they are treated by the law. Likewise, it's fundamentally protected by the free practice clause to deny any persons any religious rituals in any religious organization for any reason. For if you evangelical protestant church doesn't want to marry gays, that is very much their right.
Well what can I say except I am a bit evil. ; )Snowy Rainbow said:Evil! I like it...Broken Boy said:I might be trying to do just that.Snowy Rainbow said:Are you trying to tease me?
[sup]It's working XD[/sup]
Broken Boy said:
That it most certainly is sadly. I tried to curb my urges sorta or at least appear what I thought of as "normal" at the time over masculine only dated girl's & even got married for 14 yrs & had children. My wife found out she would snoop through my emails and found that I was flirting with boy's and such. So my bisexuality was exposed early to her at least, later she found out I was trans & well was supportive that time, after the blow out we had when she found out I was Bi. I thought well this is going to really get bad but no she said she had suspected for a long time. Now I am out and proud sorta ( the sorta is because i would be prouder if i was the right gender) but I like boy's & girl's pretty much equally & yes I find trans people attractive to. or as I tell people " I like boy's & girl's & anything in between".Snowy Rainbow said:
Ok I will stop with my life story now my bad. ; P
I saw troll thread. I saw 100+ replies. I was confused, and looked at troll thread.
Troll thread did not exist. Instead, I was amused by a cleverly sarcastic video. Well played, sir. Well played.
Troll thread did not exist. Instead, I was amused by a cleverly sarcastic video. Well played, sir. Well played.
dvd_72 said:At first I thought it was a troll, then I watched the video and smiled.
Alexlion said:
Well living in the southern parts of the U.S.A is kinda hard for gay's & such. Gay bashing & I mean that in the physical parts of bashing still happen. At least here in Tx it's kinda scary thinking that someone might beat or kill you just for the way you act or who you are with.
I might be highjacking the thread here, but I'm going to dive in at the end & skip the beginning, hehe.
Anyway, I wanted to comment on the "Is homosexuality a choice?" video someone posted earlier.
Here's the thing: you can NOT rely solely on the "homosexuality is natural" argument to solve our situation for a couple of reasons.
Herein begins the tl:dr
1. Just because something is natural, doesn't make it "good."
2. Just because something is natural, doesn't we shouldn't try to "fix it."
For example, Downs Syndrome is entirely natural, yet we spent billions of dollars each year trying to cure this condition. Some homophobes are proposing the same be done to homosexuality.
3. Human emotions are complicated and it's been a while since I researched this, but from what I recall human emotions relating to sexuality are seated in the hippocampus organ within the brain. Irrational emotions like hate and fear are also governed by that same organ. I didn't actually see any studies related to this, but it seems to me that if you validate "homosexuality is natural, therefore it's good," you must also validate "homoPHOBIA is natural, therefore it's good."
4. (And this is the big one) You are HUMAN. You have REASON. You have SELF CONTROL. Your sexuality is NOT a disease and you are NOT diseased. To surrender to the idea that your sexuality is a force of "natural" that dominates you, reduces you to nothing but an animal in heat. This is what the homophobes believe: you are a rabid dog who must be put down for the good of the civilization. By chorusing the homosexuality-is-natural line, you're AGREEING with them.
All this being said, it is good that the homosexuality-as-physiological-entity is being made, because there are obvious connections to physiology. More importantly, the history of race relations in the U.S. has set an excellent precedent for our modern day LGBTQ legal and political situation (look up Jim Crow laws... particularly miscegenation).
It is also important to consider the idea of homosexuality-as-a-choice. Yes, a choice. Specifically, a lifestyle choice.
If you want to defeat the homophobes, you have to hit them head on. Let's go.
The typical anti-gay argument you hear is, "homosexuality is a choice, therefore it's wrong." But, there's an obvious logical misstep here. Christianity, by definition, MUST BE A CHOICE. But, Christianity isn't "wrong" despite being a choice, so why is homosexuality?
This is where you get people trying to expand & say that homosexuality is a "lifestyle" choice, & therefore it's wrong, but we hit the same logical wall. Christianity is nothing if not a lifestyle, therefore being Christian is also a lifestyle choice & must therefore be "wrong."
Christians obviously do NOT think lifestyle choices are "wrong," otherwise they wouldn't've chosen to make a lifestyle choice and pursue a Christian lifestyle. So what is the real kernel of the homosexuality-as-choice argument?
If you really look at it, really, REALLY examine the homosexuality-as-choice idea, the argument must actually SUPPORT homosexuality.
Because Christianity is a lifestyle which you can only enter by choosing to do so (read up on baptism ;P), then organized religion is a lifestyle choice. This actually sets a wonderful legal precedent for homosexuality, as any "lifestyle choice" must also benefit from the same protections Christians receive.
On a purely personal level, you get that "Who would choose to be gay?" thing. I HATE THIS. Because the argument begs the question "Who would choose to be gay (because being gay is a terrible thing)?" Aside from being a horrible, horrible idea filled with self-loathing & homophobia of the highest order, it's logically terrible. From start to finish, there's nothing redeeming about this argument.
Who would choose to be gay? I would. I did. BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING GAY.
I'm not saying it was easy. And I'm not saying that everyone can do it. But for a person who has the opportunity, there's no reason not to choose to be gay. Just like there's no reason not to choose to be straight.
I've been studying the homosexual lifestyle for fourteen years now. I have never found anything negative or harmful about homosexuality, ever. The only harmful or negative experiences I have discovered studying the homosexual lifestyle come from heterosexual attacks.
The source of harm in the homosexual lifestyle is the heterosexual lifestyle.
Yes, my choice to be gay took alot of work. Yes, it was YEARS before I started seeing real results. But that just makes me all the more PROUD of what I have accomplished as a homosexual person.
So, when someone says, "Homosexuality is a choice!" I say, "Thanks for noticing!"
Anyway, I wanted to comment on the "Is homosexuality a choice?" video someone posted earlier.
Here's the thing: you can NOT rely solely on the "homosexuality is natural" argument to solve our situation for a couple of reasons.
Herein begins the tl:dr
1. Just because something is natural, doesn't make it "good."
2. Just because something is natural, doesn't we shouldn't try to "fix it."
For example, Downs Syndrome is entirely natural, yet we spent billions of dollars each year trying to cure this condition. Some homophobes are proposing the same be done to homosexuality.
3. Human emotions are complicated and it's been a while since I researched this, but from what I recall human emotions relating to sexuality are seated in the hippocampus organ within the brain. Irrational emotions like hate and fear are also governed by that same organ. I didn't actually see any studies related to this, but it seems to me that if you validate "homosexuality is natural, therefore it's good," you must also validate "homoPHOBIA is natural, therefore it's good."
4. (And this is the big one) You are HUMAN. You have REASON. You have SELF CONTROL. Your sexuality is NOT a disease and you are NOT diseased. To surrender to the idea that your sexuality is a force of "natural" that dominates you, reduces you to nothing but an animal in heat. This is what the homophobes believe: you are a rabid dog who must be put down for the good of the civilization. By chorusing the homosexuality-is-natural line, you're AGREEING with them.
All this being said, it is good that the homosexuality-as-physiological-entity is being made, because there are obvious connections to physiology. More importantly, the history of race relations in the U.S. has set an excellent precedent for our modern day LGBTQ legal and political situation (look up Jim Crow laws... particularly miscegenation).
It is also important to consider the idea of homosexuality-as-a-choice. Yes, a choice. Specifically, a lifestyle choice.
If you want to defeat the homophobes, you have to hit them head on. Let's go.
The typical anti-gay argument you hear is, "homosexuality is a choice, therefore it's wrong." But, there's an obvious logical misstep here. Christianity, by definition, MUST BE A CHOICE. But, Christianity isn't "wrong" despite being a choice, so why is homosexuality?
This is where you get people trying to expand & say that homosexuality is a "lifestyle" choice, & therefore it's wrong, but we hit the same logical wall. Christianity is nothing if not a lifestyle, therefore being Christian is also a lifestyle choice & must therefore be "wrong."
Christians obviously do NOT think lifestyle choices are "wrong," otherwise they wouldn't've chosen to make a lifestyle choice and pursue a Christian lifestyle. So what is the real kernel of the homosexuality-as-choice argument?
If you really look at it, really, REALLY examine the homosexuality-as-choice idea, the argument must actually SUPPORT homosexuality.
Because Christianity is a lifestyle which you can only enter by choosing to do so (read up on baptism ;P), then organized religion is a lifestyle choice. This actually sets a wonderful legal precedent for homosexuality, as any "lifestyle choice" must also benefit from the same protections Christians receive.
On a purely personal level, you get that "Who would choose to be gay?" thing. I HATE THIS. Because the argument begs the question "Who would choose to be gay (because being gay is a terrible thing)?" Aside from being a horrible, horrible idea filled with self-loathing & homophobia of the highest order, it's logically terrible. From start to finish, there's nothing redeeming about this argument.
Who would choose to be gay? I would. I did. BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING GAY.
I'm not saying it was easy. And I'm not saying that everyone can do it. But for a person who has the opportunity, there's no reason not to choose to be gay. Just like there's no reason not to choose to be straight.
I've been studying the homosexual lifestyle for fourteen years now. I have never found anything negative or harmful about homosexuality, ever. The only harmful or negative experiences I have discovered studying the homosexual lifestyle come from heterosexual attacks.
The source of harm in the homosexual lifestyle is the heterosexual lifestyle.
Yes, my choice to be gay took alot of work. Yes, it was YEARS before I started seeing real results. But that just makes me all the more PROUD of what I have accomplished as a homosexual person.
So, when someone says, "Homosexuality is a choice!" I say, "Thanks for noticing!"
This is an open attack on homosexual nature, and I firmly believe that you are simply trying to troll, sir. I disrespect your attempt, and will not be swayed by the words in that most hurtful video.
. . . Nope, couldn't keep a straight face writing it. Freedom to jump on beds for the win! I'll go do that now.
On another note, I'm amazed the dude in the video could keep a straight face.
. . . Nope, couldn't keep a straight face writing it. Freedom to jump on beds for the win! I'll go do that now.
On another note, I'm amazed the dude in the video could keep a straight face.
It's in Leviticus, like most of the Law of Moses and Aaron. Also included are rules on how long one can keep slaves (which depends on their being a Jew or not), how much they can be sold for, and an amazing array of dietary rules (which were probably smart to follow in an Iron-age society with no refrigeration and poor food preparation).Baradiel said:
In fact, the same word is used to describe what "lying with mankind as with womankind" is as is used to describe "eating creatures that swim in the water but hath not fins nor scales". It's translated in KJV as "abomination" (and every place that word is used in Leviticus the same Hebrew word is used) more precisely the word is a much stronger form "unclean".
Speaking of, it always seemed to me that Leviticus doesn't really claim anything wrong with homosexuality, but rather with bisexuality -- a gay man or lesbian certainly doesn't lie with mankind as they lie with womankind (instead they lie with mankind as a straight person of their gender lies with womankind and vice versa). It always seemed to me to be in exactly the same logic as one of those verses about not mixing things -- do not sow a field with two different kinds of seed, do not wear cloth made from two types of thread, etc, etc, etc.
The thing is, marriage isn't a religious fair in any way. It simple gets seen that way by many people. So the term marriage is fine here and I don't think people should bow to others and their hate just to make them shut up, lol.Schadrach said:
That's one aspect of transgender that's completely alien to me - being the 'wrong gender'. Wanting to be a gender you're not seen as makes sense. But seeing yourself as the wrong gender is odd to me, as I've never seen myself as a gender. Not to say either of us is weird or wrong, mind.Broken Boy said:
Not at all. People are beaten and murdered every day and many more driven to suicide in the Western world. In a lot of parts of the world being gay is a great way to get yourself thrown in prison and executed.Alexlion said:
