Why I fight for Caesar's Legion in Fallout

[NeutralDrow]

Even if I were inclined to overlook the official misogyny and completely inhumane slavery (which is absolutely not a necessary evil, but a recipe for economic stagnation; free labor doesn't necessarily mean good labor), I would oppose Caesar on behalf of all anthropologists everywhere. No man who adopts the outward trappings of a culture for his army and governmental policy, while simultaneously ignoring every aspect of that culture that runs counter to his own megalomania (like the aforementioned misogyny and slavery, not to mention his policy of conquest working quite different from historical "romanization") and outright stating that he has no interest in other cultures, can be suffered to live.

Actually, my playthrough is kinda marred by my not liking any of the options. Caesar, I bombed to Hell after confirming his monstrosity. House and I got off on the wrong foot immediately, and I shot him for being a bastard. I have no interest in Yes Man, because I have no interest of any sort in New Vegas, let alone interest in running it. So far, I'm going with the NCR mainly as a "lesser of all evils" option, though I haven't met the Brotherhood of Steel, yet.

All in all, my experience of New Vegas was marred by me not even liking real-world Vegas, and post-fallout Vegas was way worse. I hated most factions, I hated the flora and fauna of the place, I hated that annoying TV-head robot sheriff, I hated quite a lot of the NPCs... Two-Dog seemed like a really nice, diverse and interesting guy in direct comparison.

...you're the first person I've read share my exact experience. Like, down to the word.

Though I tended to just dismiss NPCs offhand unless they actually got in my way, or were monsters on Caesar's level. And for some reason I took a liking to most of the lower-level NCR troopers I met.

 

[Mr.PlanetEater]

I find that a lot of people dislike Caesar's Legion based solely on what they see at the Fort. You guys need to remember that the Fort is an active military installation, not a settled town deep in the Legion heartlands. There's definitely going to be a difference between the way the Fort runs and a regular town runs. Hence why I wish Obsidian didn't have to cut all the planned Legion content to make Bethesda's deadline. :c

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

NCR its the only way. Even the brotherhood, and a good Enclave I won't choose if given the choice. Those two which I sure a lot of people want to side with if it were a choice, were from the American prewar military, and now act like so. Their tech is way too high price to maintain for taxes. They lack numbers, and support. Plus if I choose Yes man or House I doubt Vegas will last if either gets killed while the NCR has numbers, human rights, and won't die if their leader/s dies. Granted I did feel I own house for saving the city, even if I wish he done more, but times change.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

I never thought the Legion was meant to be "evil" and the NCR were the "good guys". I think Obsidian was trying to echo the Old World vibe with the NCR as the civilization closest to the societal normalities we have here in present day. The NCR is essentially meant to represent history repeating itself, and considering how history went in Fallout, that's not meant to be seen as the "right way" to go about rebuilding civilization.

The Legion, I think, was more of a radical crack down on civil liberties for the sake of creating a civilization of order and structure that has more of a guarantee to not tear itself apart--whether you like it or not. Essentially, give up almost all individual rights so that the the civilization as a whole can work and endure longer.

New Vegas, the cause of the conflict, is representative of these opposing ideologies: it's a city of sin and self-destruction, but it's a person's right to do such things to themselves. So what to do? Take away their free will, or let them slowly waste themselves away?

It's actually a very nice moral parallel.

All the same, I still shot Caesar's fucking head off with an anti-material rifle.

 

[Trig0n]

I went for Anarchy. Because annihilating everything works out much better for reasons.

 

[nexus]

The game could have really benefited from actual Legion settlements. We only get to see the worst side of the Legion, and have to take Dale and Raul's word for it on their territory.

But, House FTW.

Agreed. I skipped out on siding with the Legion in both my playthroughs, mostly because there is nothing to them, in the end. They only have the little camp next to the dock, and the fort across the river that really only acts as a story-zone.

If the Legion had been as prevalent in the Mojave as the NCR.. then I would have went with them, despite their crucifixion thing. Why? Well look how f-ing evil everyone else really is.. The strip is run by cannibals, gangsters and a mass-murdering tyrant with a God complex. The NCR is just modern-day Legion, a "nicer" sadistic empire that subverts simple minds. The Legion is just overt as already stated.

The whole game really is "Lesser of two evils", or "The type of evil I'm most comfortable with", or "Don't care"

 

[Chicago Ted]

Personally, I sided with House. My reasons for this are simple. To borrow the "levels" metaphor, if Legion is at level 1, and NCR is trying for level 5, Mr. House claims that with control of New Vegas, he could reach 6 and beyond. Based on what I saw in his story, I believe him. He seems more practical than the NCR, but isn't as brutal as Caesar. Plus, it doesn't look like he's dying anytime soon, so anything he does will last.

I considered siding with Yes Man, but then all of House's knowledge would be lost, and New Vegas would be the same it is now, but with a homicidal, power-mad delivery boy in charge. The Omertas would have killed me by the end of the week.

This.

House is about the only one who can guarantee not only stability in the Mojave, but growth, a prospect that is seemingly lost on all other factions.

One key fact that we're all forgetting about the Legion here also is they actively destroy technology. They will stagnate whatever they come across, and force yet another dark age upon those under them.

Let's look at House for a second here. He is the one that saved New Vegas. There is no denying that. When the bombs fell, he stopped them. When the NCR and Legion came across them, he united three Tribes, and within less than a generation, turned them into efficient workers for him. He is the only one with any real claim to the land. I was working fine with the NCR, up until the point where they told me to go assassinate House. Asking me to kill the leader of the lands in order to help facilitate their own expansion just struck a horrible chord with me. If they want him dead, they don't do it by sending some third party in that they can deny. They'll have to storm the doors, and deal with the shit storm that comes with it themselves.

While the bad side of House is that there will be heavy taxation on those he rules (I believe that was spelled out in one of the endings), ultimately the same comes with the NCR. The benefits for House though are that, as long as he isn't violently overthrown, there will be no power struggle after his death (In the case of both Caesar and Independent), and he will run his territory far more efficiently than any other faction that takes over. And even with this possibility for high taxation, House's rule will pretty much bring a fair amount of equality for everyone involved. The only ones that I would really be sorting out if I were him were the Omertas, but given the war going on around him, it's something that can be done later.

 

[ElectroJosh]

I preferred siding with House; but I went through it again with NCR and, finally, the Legion.

I found the Legion to have the easiest end-game - but that could also be due my experience at playing the game by that point.

Anyway - I am not a fan of the Legion's "conquer and bring to heel" attitude but neither did I appreciate NCR's "we bring civiliation" rationale for taking over. Ultimately I felt good about going the House path because he was about keeping New Vegas independant.

 

[Draken Steel]

Cant understand why you would ever choose the legion as a moral faction. As a self serving survivalist, or any of a number of negative personalities, sure, but as a regular human with something resembling, at least somewhat, the average morality of a modern nation...then no. No way ever.

The legion crucifies anyone they want to, the people with power can do anything they want to the people under them, they enslave and force their will on everyone they come into contact with, destroy families, inflict cruelty, and deem huge swaths of the population as inferior property. These are all things that civilization exists to PREVENT.

Tell me, how is this better then anarchy? A few people argue for it in terms of stability, and keeping out bandits and such, but again, how is it BETTER then bandits? What would bandits do to you that the legion wont? they will take what they want by force, rape and enslave your loved ones, and kill you in horrific ways.

All of the corruption and negative effects of the NCR is the legions entire bloody ideology.

 

[gim73]

I think I'm gonna have to side with the brotherhood of steel. Wait, that's right, they are BETRAYED in this game. Seriously, play house: kill BoS. Play NCR: kill BoS. Play Caeser: kill BoS. The only guy who gives them a break is Yes man, and that's not really much of an ending. Screw ALL the factions that want you to MURDER the noble brotherhood. You can ally with or ignore the crazy people with big guns bombing everyone. Drug dealing fiends, people eating gents or great khans who helped shoot you in the head? Not worth your time, just skip past them. Reclusive group of tech lovers who have locked themselves in a bunker and aren't hurting anyone? could you please break into their base, murder them all and then blow it up? No? Then SCREW YOU, all reputation LOST! House, the NCR and the legion are all PRICKS who won't tolerate you refusing to murder the BoS. Yes man will reluctantly accept your decision, but whatever. Veronica deserves better. The BoS deserves it's own ending.

 

[clippen05]

Sorry, but I rather be ruled by a DEMOCRATIC, poorly run empire than an autocratic one. Even if under the autocratic one there's better protection. What happens even Caesar started to go madman (Well, some would say he already did) and turned into a Hitler. You can't just impeach him... This doesn't take into account much about Fallout lore, but then again, I haven't even beat F:NV once yet, although I do want to.

 

[Riley Holt]

I sided with the NCR for a while, until I too began to see the corruption and weakness you spoke of. Luckily, I'd not -quite- finished up the Wild Card missions. So I went to Hoover Dam with the NCR, who were bewildered by the robots following me and absolutely shredding the Legion. I don't think I killed a single Legionnaire (personally) on the Dam itself. Strolled into the main camp, used my 100 speech to send the big bad running, then told General Oliver to take a hike. I was in charge of the Mojave, and I'd wipe out anyone who wanted to infringe upon it.

Am I the good guy? Maybe. My "alignment" is "good," and I always try and take the peaceful, "right" way out. "Speak softly and carry a big stick," as it were. Were there to be a "Broken Steel"-style DLC for New Vegas, I would do my best to run the Mojave as fairly as possible. Which is to say, exterminate the Fiends, clean up Freeside (leave the Kings in control, since we're on speaking terms), and pretty much leave everything else alone. Maybe set up diplomacy with the Boomers (since, again, on good terms), get Jacobstown integrated a little more (give them Black Mountain and try to reduce Super Mutant discrimination), etc. Continue trends to unify the Mojave under its own banner for the sake of common defense. And no taxes needed, since I'd be sitting atop the Lucky 38 and have the other three casinos as well for revenue. Then when I got on in years, I'd take my Companions (who wanted to go) with me to New Zion and retire there, honoring the memory of "The Survivalist."

At least that's my Utopian dream. And yes, I know there's a hint that you may be soon overthrown, but I'm going with best possible scenarios here.

 

[GildaTheGriffin]

The only thing I love about the Legion is that they understand what builds civilization. They get rid of the corrupt and evil, but as I'm going to say I'm NCR type of person, because... well, I don't mind paying a few taxes or having a few dumbfucks for a government. As long as I get to live freely with my family and build my life, I'll be happy enough. Legion wants people to be... whatever they want you to be. So, sorry, NCR can win in my book.

 

[Frission]

I'm not going to say anything about your choices, but I pretty much sided with the NCR. Although I understand going with Wild Card and Mr.House.

Mr.House while autocratic, offers not only stability but growth. With him, things would actually progress instead of stay more or less in stasis with the NCR or stagnate with the Legion. The downside is we may repeat history.

The wild card is for those who looked at all the other factions and decided they could do better.

EDIT:

***Just in case: SPOILER ALERT***

So far I tried being independent, and I must say, the ending is fairly good, I think that the best option is for NV to be on its own and done with it. Of course, to make that happen, I started Helios sending the energy to Freeside and the Strip. Got rid of the White Gloves and Changed the management of the Omertas and let the Chairmen on their own, except for Benny. I helped the Followers of the Apocalypse in Freeside, and that got me access to the Enclave remnants who most of them wanted to help the NCR, but thought it would be better to be independent, so that I did. I wan to try House next time, I want to see what he has to offer.

EDIT: I forgot the most important part of the topic; I don't support neither Legion or NCR ideas, I think the NCR is what Ulysses said "A group that tries to simulate the former ways of government without learning that it was their way of doing things that ended the old world." Or something among those lines. As for the Legion, I still think they're also in the mistake, right, they unify tribes by assimilating them and killing those who opposes them with no mercy. They think of women as an inferior being, dissing anything that could came from them, allowing any Legion member to abuse of them with no consequences. And probably this is something that they missed out while doing the game, but for some reason, it appears the Legion does not have any scientific department or even group of people that helps them with that, so they have no use of technology from what it seems. But that's probably something they missed while making the game.

So I don't support neither major faction, but I want to try House next time.

The legion are Luddites. There is no scientific department to speak of. It's stated in game that the legion rejects a lot of technology. I don't think that Obsidian missed THAT. Although I wonder where they get the slave collar. Probably from the Institute.

 

[Nieroshai]

So morally ambiguous and dickish is somehow worse than murderous and evil?

 

[solemnwar]

I think I'm gonna have to side with the brotherhood of steel. Wait, that's right, they are BETRAYED in this game. Seriously, play house: kill BoS. Play NCR: kill BoS. Play Caeser: kill BoS. The only guy who gives them a break is Yes man, and that's not really much of an ending. Screw ALL the factions that want you to MURDER the noble brotherhood. You can ally with or ignore the crazy people with big guns bombing everyone. Drug dealing fiends, people eating gents or great khans who helped shoot you in the head? Not worth your time, just skip past them. Reclusive group of tech lovers who have locked themselves in a bunker and aren't hurting anyone? could you please break into their base, murder them all and then blow it up? No? Then SCREW YOU, all reputation LOST! House, the NCR and the legion are all PRICKS who won't tolerate you refusing to murder the BoS. Yes man will reluctantly accept your decision, but whatever. Veronica deserves better. The BoS deserves it's own ending.

"If the player has completed Still in the Dark, stayed on good terms with the Brotherhood, and McNamara remains Elder, a truce can be signed between the Brotherhood and the NCR." -Fallout Wiki

So no, you don't HAVE to kill them, so long as you side with the NCR. Everyone else, however, wants you to kill them dead.

 

[Wafflepunk]

Just imagine if every great discovery or innovation between the fall of Rome and today just vanished. That is essentially what Caesar wants. Ignoring the slavery, or slaughter of tribes, or any of their other crimes, their main goal is to send all the land they control back to a state of living we would consider primative. To use Arcade's example, if a legionnaire found a cheap, easy way to make stimpaks from common plants, Caesar would probably have him crucified. Looking at the war in the Mojave from a long-term, multi-generational viewpoint, the Legion will only harm the inhabitants of the wasteland. As many flaws as the NCR and Mr. House have, none of them compare to forbidding all progress and freezing the Mojave as a caricature of Ancient Rome.

 

[scorptatious]

snip

From what I've heard, you can have the NCR and the Brotherhood form a truce.

Also, considering how the Brotherhood insists on keeping technology away from other people. It kinda makes sense that they wouldn't respond too kindly to anyone having an army of rocket launcher wielding robots on hand. Yes Man himself says that they could be Vegas's greatest enemy in the future if you choose to ignore them. Hell, even House, who's confident that he could defeat them, would rather have them out of the way before hand.

And considering how both the Legion and the NCR want to control everything, it's kinda likely the Brotherhood would prove to be a major obstacle in their goals.

Of course, in my independent playthrough, I kept them alive. Mostly for Veronica's sake. (Of course I was pretty pissed off at them for what they did to her)

It actually would be kinda cool to see the Brotherhood have their own main quest line however. With the Mojave chapter's small numbers, it would probably prove very difficult to acquire the Hoover Dam themselves without help from a third (fourth? fifth?) party.