"Why not just watch porn?"

[sageoftruth]

Some videogames are pretty pornograhic in an exploitative kind of way, though that doesn't necessarily make them porn.

Case in point: Just about every game by Team Ninja (except DOA Extreme Volleyball)

 

[sageoftruth]

Personally, I think the way in which erotica is introduced is really important. Just like in-game transactions, having random erotica dumped on you in a manner that doesn't make sense (in the context of the story) can kick you out of your engagement with the story just as quickly as an online transaction can break your gaming immersion.

After recently getting into western comics, I read Empowered. The thing I loved about that comic was that it's use of fanservice was so ingrained in the story that it could not be removed without ruining the story itself. As a result, when I ran into fanservice, I didn't suddenly feel like I was being pandered to.

 

[prpshrt]

I used to watch the anime fairy tail ever since it was released and I didn't seem to have a problem just casually watching it on my laptop when I had the time. Now I have to sit in a locked room when I read the manga and watch the newer episodes just in case people don't look at my screen during an unfortunate page or scene and end up thinking I'm addicted to hentai. I still really like the story but the amount of "fan service" is just stupid.

 

[Wickatricka]

But nope. According to the Internet, its just that these people apparently know enough to work Youtube or a PS3 but can't figure out how to work Google.

You do realize that to properly utilize Google, and any other search engine for that matter, that you have to use proper spelling, don't you? That immediately disqualifies at least half (rough, generous estimate) of the internet users.

No you don't lol it gives you suggestions or spell checks your search for you. Therefore pretty much any illiterate person can use the internet as long as they get close to the word they were trying to write.

 

[CplDustov]

But nope. According to the Internet, its just that these people apparently know enough to work Youtube or a PS3 but can't figure out how to work Google.

You do realize that to properly utilize Google, and any other search engine for that matter, that you have to use proper spelling, don't you? That immediately disqualifies at least half (rough, generous estimate) of the internet users.

I admit ignorance of current search engine practices. However, I remember being explained that it trawls the net for pages with strings of characters that match those the user inputs. (and now variations in past or plurals or those e.g. cat will also search cats) As in real, existing material written in part by that 50% and not the theoretical spellings.

If this is the case then proper spelling either won't matter as it searches what's really on the internet (half of what's on the internet will be badly spelled anyway thus cancelling itself out because both the original text and search parameters are equally incorrect)

OR.... like you say it ends up being even more useless than predicted as 50% of everyone tries to guess in what particular way the word is badly written by the rest of the 50%. katz? kats? cats? catz? C475?

EDIT:

No you don't lol it gives you suggestions or spell checks your search for you. Therefore pretty much any illiterate person can use the internet as long as they get close to the word they were trying to write.

Ok. True. You got me there. My distopian vision of people unable to communicate has come undone.

 

[wulf3n]

It's their place to include it? Yes... they make it. And it's my place to critique their decisions. As someone who critiques professional and peer work alike, someone whose in an academic setting to pick apart works to see what enables the piece and what detracts from it on a daily basis, I don't think that my opinion is inane.

It's not criticism that's the issue here, it's the thinly veiled attempt at censorship in the form of "Just watch porn".

What experience? If you add something just because "it's pretty" and no other reason, then you don't know what you're doing as an artist. If you don't want me to dismiss you, then expand on "Because it's nice to look at."

Why is "it's pretty" not enough? We're not talking about something exploring the human condition etc, we're talking about a something purely designed for entertainment.

In which case any addition that increases the enjoyment for the target audience needs no other justification.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

It's their place to include it? Yes... they make it. And it's my place to critique their decisions. As someone who critiques professional and peer work alike, someone whose in an academic setting to pick apart works to see what enables the piece and what detracts from it on a daily basis, I don't think that my opinion is inane.

It's not criticism that's the issue here, it's the thinly veiled attempt at censorship in the form of "Just watch porn".

Excuse me for singling you out. I was going to make a massive quote block and make snarky comments to a half-dozen different people, but then I didn't. Your post is a good enough jumping off point for the two points I wanted to make.

It's not an attempt at censorship with any kind of veiling. At least I don't think so. I mean, I'm fairly sure we did that book-burning just so we could toast some marshmallows...

Anyway, here's how I see it. Stories, in any medium, are basically emotion machines. The narrative makes me have various kinds of feels, and the quality, quantity, and nature of these feels determines my overall viewing experience. When a given scene gives me mixed emotional messages, my enjoyment goes down.

Somebody in the comments of one of Red Letter Media's Star Trek reviews summed up the concept of tone in a really simple and brilliant way, so brilliant I saved it for times like these. Here it is:

"Yeah its weird, like when Im having a bowl of chicken soup, it really upsets me when it smells like gasoline and oil, and feels like icy cold air blasting me in the face and I'm barely able to stay on my seat, you figure since I love those things about snowmobiling that I should love them when Im eating soup."

Which, by the way, is why even though I don't like High School of the Dead, I don't have a problem with it. It has a consistent tone. That tone just happens to be "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LOLOLOLOLOL BANG BANG PEW PEW KABOOOM VROOOOOOOOOOM WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".

What experience? If you add something just because "it's pretty" and no other reason, then you don't know what you're doing as an artist. If you don't want me to dismiss you, then expand on "Because it's nice to look at."

Why is "it's pretty" not enough? We're not talking about something exploring the human condition etc, we're talking about a something purely designed for entertainment.

In which case any addition that increases the enjoyment for the target audience needs no other justification.

Actually, we are talking about exploring the human condition etc., my bar is just lower than most people's. Naruto is about loyalty and revenge. Bleach functions extraordinarily well as a critique of obsolete Japanese culture. Death Note and Gurren Lagann are so obvious as to not need explaining. Code Geass's theme is...well, pretty much everything. Bakemonogatari is about language, anime culture, and relationships. Star Driver is about sex and philosophy.

What I'm saying is, when I say, "Why can't you be more like Bleach?"

And you say, "Not everybody can be that sophisticated."

Then it might, if you'll pardon me paraphrasing Hell Girl, be time to give a death a try.

 

[wulf3n]

It's not an attempt at censorship with any kind of veiling. At least I don't think so. I mean, I'm fairly sure we did that book-burning just so we could toast some marshmallows...

It's saying something shouldn't exist, or should only exist in certain forms, how is that not verbalizing the want for censorship?

What I'm saying is, when I say, "Why can't you be more like Bleach?"

And you say, "Not everybody can be that sophisticated."

I think it's closer to "Not everything has to be Bleach".

"Yeah its weird, like when Im having a bowl of chicken soup, it really upsets me when it smells like gasoline and oil, and feels like icy cold air blasting me in the face and I'm barely able to stay on my seat, you figure since I love those things about snowmobiling that I should love them when Im eating soup."

What if I like my chicken soup smelling like gasoline and oil? Then people come along and say
"Chicken soup shouldn't smell like Gasoline, If you want the smell of gasoline go snowmobiling"

 

[IamLEAM1983]

The thing is, Anime has several subgenres that cater to sexual urges in ways that the Western market doesn't appear to extensively require. The culture of repression is stronger there than here, so stronger and perhaps weirder paraphilias surface as a result. These specific shows might not be outright deviant, but the OP's argument doesn't really hold water. If High School of the Dead contains this much fan service, it'e because there's a "schoolgirl" fetish culture in Japan and ergo, there's a demographic WITHIN the demographic for the show itself that inevitably will be watching the show for its T&A content. It's unavoidable.

So, why not just watch porn? I'd retort to the hypothetical asker of said question that this is very much porn for a segment of the population.

Just look at the Furry culture, for instance. Gadget, Fat Cat, Monterey Jack et al. might be some of the least sexualized characters out there, but that doesn't change the fact that there is such a thing as Gadget + Fat Cat Rule 34... Add to that cross-pollination between paraphilias and you get a cornucopia of potential casual fetishes.

An orgy scene involving the antagonists from some kids' show that's fallen into obscurity? It's there.

Morbidly Obese Discord getting both aroused and weighed down by ingesting a gargantuan amount of chocolate milk and cookies? I'm sure that's out there somewhere.

So, OP - you might be able to watch a given show for its content and not find your bits to be tweaked by it, but someone else out there doesn't have that luxury. With that in mind, don't be too shocked when someone brings up erotic angles to things you'd have assumed to be tame.

 

[Bocaj2000]

It's their place to include it? Yes... they make it. And it's my place to critique their decisions. As someone who critiques professional and peer work alike, someone whose in an academic setting to pick apart works to see what enables the piece and what detracts from it on a daily basis, I don't think that my opinion is inane.

It's not criticism that's the issue here, it's the thinly veiled attempt at censorship in the form of "Just watch porn".

Censorship? I never said that. You're getting defensive and putting words in my mouth. I'm saying expect criticism.

What experience? If you add something just because "it's pretty" and no other reason, then you don't know what you're doing as an artist. If you don't want me to dismiss you, then expand on "Because it's nice to look at."

Why is "it's pretty" not enough? We're not talking about something exploring the human condition etc, we're talking about a something purely designed for entertainment.

In which case any addition that increases the enjoyment for the target audience needs no other justification.

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion. You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion. You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

To imply that everyone who doesn't think like you when creating their vision is not taking their medium seriously is more insulting.

The entertainment industry has room for all kinds of works, not only the ones that you find acceptable.

 

[Boogie Knight]

I'm gonna take a great personal risk by being totally honest: Overwhelmingly, I prefer fanservicey and ecchi stuff over hentai because the former doesn't make me die a little inside as I watch it. The first time I saw a rape scene in a hentai, I damn near cried like a baby. And there is so much goddamn rape in hentai!! There is something seriously wrong with hentai and how ubiquitous rape is. It's repulsive how hard you have to look to find hentai where the characters have sex for fun, and I just gave up because it's too damn depressing to look and I don't like where I have to take myself mentally in order to wade through the sewer just to find the occasional gem.

As for pornography with flesh and blood women... it's not very satisfying because I don't know who these women are and what they do tends to come off as lazy. Personally, I find the swimsuit issue of Sports Illustrated far more stimulating because I see aesthetic sensibilities which is in sharp contrast to outright porn where a woman will stick her crotch in front of the camera and practically yell, "Look at my stuff, LOOK AT IT!"

This in part plays into why I prefer anime that tries to give us characters and has a little fanservice for shameless titillation. It's just more fun when you're getting to see something which a character would rather have guarded than just getting an anatomy lesson. Admittedly, I've found plenty of fanservicey anime to be very terrible with no redeeming qualities. Case in point, I hate anime like Freezing and Eiken with a passion. I especially hate Eiken as it is the most soulless and condescending thing I have seen passed off as a romantic comedy.

 

[wulf3n]

Censorship? I never said that. You're getting defensive and putting words in my mouth. I'm saying expect criticism.

I didn't say you did say Censorship. Merely that the issue isn't Criticism, the issue is "Just watch Porn" which is not criticism, but an attempt at censorship.

So the argument "It's my place to critique their decisions." is true, but not what I have issue with.

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion.

No, I'm saying not all works in a given medium have to be serious. Not that the medium itself is not serious.

You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

So because I suggest a single piece of work is not intended to be taken seriously, that somehow means I'm dismissing the entire entertainment industry?

 

[Bocaj2000]

What experience? If you add something just because "it's pretty" and no other reason, then you don't know what you're doing as an artist. If you don't want me to dismiss you, then expand on "Because it's nice to look at."

Aestheticism dude. Popped up around the 19th century, Oscar Wilde and a lot of other artist's jumped on board the "Art for art's sake" train. It doesn't need to be expanded, art doesn't need to justify itself. "I wanted to make something pleasing" is justification enough.

From the Encyclopedia Britannica:

Aestheticism, late 19th-century European arts movement which centred on the doctrine that art exists for the sake of its beauty alone, and that it need serve no political, didactic, or other purpose.

Good to see you've done your research ^-^
The problem is that aestheticism still promotes mood and tone through the beauty that it creates. Empty beauty is still empty.

Also, do you honestly think that out of place ecchi is a statement based in aestheticism?

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

I especially hate Eiken as it is the most soulless and condescending thing I have seen passed off as a romantic comedy.

It's funny you mention that. Eiken is a parody.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Censorship? I never said that. You're getting defensive and putting words in my mouth. I'm saying expect criticism.

I didn't say you did say Censorship. Merely that the issue isn't Criticism, the issue is "Just watch Porn" which is not criticism, but an attempt at censorship.

So the argument "It's my place to critique their decisions." is true, but not what I have issue with.

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion.

No, I'm saying not all works in a given medium are serious. Not the medium itself is not serious.

You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

So because I suggest a single piece of work is not intended to be taken seriously, that somehow means I'm dismissing the entire entertainment industry?

Good to see your points in this discussion. Now it's more than mud slinging back and forth haha.

Of course censorship isn't the answer. But if there was a purpose behind the sexuality, it wouldn't be an issue to begin with.

Also, all works deserve a serious and critical eye, no matter how schlocky it is. If there is a mood or tone that is trying to be delivered, serious or not, then it should get a critical eye on how to improve that tone. Out of place sexuality disrupts the atmosphere and creates a new one. This new atmosphere usually detracts from the piece as a whole.

 

[Bocaj2000]

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion. You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

To imply that everyone who doesn't think like you when creating their vision is not taking their medium seriously is more insulting.

The entertainment industry has room for all kinds of works, not only the ones that you find acceptable.

I'm sorry for implying that, but that's not what I said. I said that if you want to be part of a serious discussion about animation, you have to take animation seriously. If you see it as inane entertainment, then you have no part in a serious discussion about the medium.

Also, I never said that my opinion is the correct one. I only said my opinion.

 

[wulf3n]

But if there was a purpose behind the sexuality, it wouldn't be an issue to begin with.

But there is a purpose, usually titillation, with HSotD I would argue comedy to some extent.

 

[Bocaj2000]

But if there was a purpose behind the sexuality, it wouldn't be an issue to begin with.

But there is a purpose, usually titillation, with HSotD I would argue comedy to some extent.

I mean in reference to the rest of the piece. For example, titillation during an action sequence is an awkward way to handle an action sequence and detracts from the action.

Also, is HSotD a comedy? An action thriller? Is the sexuality used effectively to compliment these themes? Or is it there on its own merits without reference to the rest of the piece's mood and tone?

EDIT: In my opinion, HSotD is a complete mess when it comes to tone. The creator said that it was supposed to be "straight up horror" but added ecchi so over the top that the anime is impossible to take seriously. Contrast that to Desert Punk, which uses ecchi in the anime as the punchline to several jokes.

 

[SinisterGehe]

I been to striptease show and I can tell you it is way classier than any anime. And I have watched anime and I can tell you 99% of it has no class or rank.

According to quantum superposition theory I have seen everything that can, is, will be, might, can't be, would be, might not be. Therefor I have seen all anime and I have drawn a conclusion from it.

Let's just say it like this. I spent 8 months doing part time as sensor for a TV channel that aired lot of foreign stuff. It meant watching a whole series, then marking down a tick list about them. And since I was "young hip kid" I got a quarter of standard nautical metric ton of Anime.

4-6 hours a day that to pay living so I could have money that was not my parents while studying.
Worst 8 months of my life.

Also. "To be entitled for a subjective opinion you do not need a objective study of the subject."
In my opinion everything that is pastel colored looks ugly and horrible, because I hate pastel color range. I also hate the year 1234 and the incoming 4321.

But yeah - what I have seen when I had to and when I was arsed to, 99% of anime has nor class. But please: do list that same fucking list of bebob, souldrinker, boobs and big swords and neon conclusion mechabollocks... etc to convert my opinion.

Which mainly is - I don't or respect 99% of anime. There are few movies I happen to like, because they are diamond encrusted finger smearing cool cream on your brain compared to rest of mass media that gets bombarded from all 1½ and 2/3rd corners of the world.