CriticKitten said:
PS2 still sold over 50 million units since the Xbox 360 came out
http://www.pcworld.com/article/123760/playstation_2_sales_hit_100_million.html
http://www.vgchartz.com/platforms/
Most of that tile it was selling at a rate better than the PS3.
See this is why Wii vs PS3/360 is an apples and oranges comparison. No one cares that PS2 sold better than the PS3 for most of this generation, because it's old outdated and DIFFERNET tech selling for low price and not to the mainstream of the gaming market.
An unsubstantiated claim on wikipedia doesn't have any credibility to discredit. However the hardware stats are accredited and they do attest that Wii is nothing but a gamecube in a fancy new box with a DVD drive. This is not baseless assertion vs baseless assertion. This is reasoned logic with evidence vs your contradictory claims.
"By your logic, PS3 is just a remake of the PS2."
How petty. The PS3 has completely different hardware from PS2. You are playing facile word games and refusing to accept the facts: Wii has gamecube internals.
"Except that the 360's Kinect controls still are a prototype"
Nonsense. Kinect has been a successful retail product since 2010.
I never said it I made I typo, I said I made a mistake mixing up order. A flub.
"Let's meet again in three years, when you've been proven wrong on this subject, okay?"
I hear equivalent things from christians "when we are both dead and I'm in heaven and you are in hell, we'll see who is right"
[Wii sales vs Kinect sales]
Wii is cheaper than Xbox 360 + kinect. But WiiU is confirmed for $350. This is an irrelevant comparison. WiiU won't sell just because there is a "wii" in the title. It is more expensive than the competition!
"No, that isn't what I said. What I said is that no one wants to buy a $400 DVD player if they already have a DVD player"
And I have told you that the Xbox 360 is now selling for $200, not $400. It is an upscaling DVD player, perfect for HDTVs that most DVDs players sold since 1998 are not. It is also a HD media streamer with netflix and now iPlayer.
"Most people looking to "cut the cord" can do so for much cheaper through legal means on the internet"
They'll need a way of streaming that content from their PC to their HDTV. 360 does that and is good at that (integrates with their Wondows operating system) and WiiU isn't touting that.
You think I'm impressed with your very lame attempts at trolling with "you seem upset" macros. I tangle with Neo-Nazi death cults who spam me with death threats and gore images, you are nothing.
"What I've said is that making the extremist claim of "no one will buy this" when historically any console that "no one will buy" has sold several million units is simply a bad statement to make."
OK then, what about Dreamcast? What about Atari Jaguar? What about the Gamecube that also sold extremely poorly at huge losses for Nintendo?
WiiU's failure is it gives more processing power... but at $350 is a bullshit price.
If brand loyalty counts, why did Gamecube hardly sell at all, even at $99?
Look, I'm nostalgic as hell about Zelda, I played every games (except Skyward Sword) to death. But I', not a simpering sycophant who will fork over $350 for the mere possibility of nostalgia.
Wii-mote controller is still relativley more intuitive.
"None of which are selling nearly as well as their Wii counterparts"
Wii sales have tanked but it is much cheaper than 360. WiiU will be more expensive than Xbox 360
"Not many"
Is only 10-20 million units because I don't give a crap about Nintendo's money. I give a crap about platform support and WiiU will not be widely supported with only a couple million versus. Online will suffer as console need higher install bases to get good coverage (PS gets around this with dedicated servers). You cannot polish a turd, no matter how much marketing money you throw at something. WiiU's price is wrong. $350 for hardware that isn't as powerful as an xbos 360 ($199) or PS3 is a bad price. The only good marketing for WiiU is selling it for $150 which nothing suggest will be the case:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-05-nintendo-responds-to-wii-u-power-reports
"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," one developer said of Nintendo's first high definition home console. "The graphics are just not as powerful."
"Where were you buying PS2 games from? You're being ripped off. My brother bought a PS2 and several games for it for much less than that, several years ago."
Ditto for wii games.
Those PC games are taking the fucking piss, like Black Ops 2. Most PC games are less than $50. See this:
You might need one of these cherry picker cranes for all the cherry picking you are doing. I have seen some special Wii games sell for £40, which is the $60 equivalent in the UK.
To care that WiiU doesn't support 2 "tablet" controllers you'd need to care about the overpriced inferior 360 clone in the first place. People will care when there is a HD Zelda game. Metroid Prime franchise is worthless, Zelda is the only thing Nintendo hasn't totally milked dry. Who cares abotu 4 tablets! What is this gimmicky crap!??!
Also, you are bullshitting me here. First you talk about how "everyone has spare wiimotes around" which is number one false, but even assuming they were enough, that is DIFFERENT from how WiiU could use two tablet controllers. First you say "loads of extra Wii-motes" now it's suddenly about extra WiiU tablet controllers. WTF is your game??!?
-The console will only come with one of those tablet controllers
-We have no idea how much extra tablet controllers will cost
-We don't have any reason to want multiple tablet controllers
Multiple NORMAL gamepads I see the appeal, but multiple sub screens?!?! WHY!!!?!?
Stop kidding yourself with these facile and concocted "gotcha" crap.
I give you a source from 2006 and you give me TWO very unreliable and outdated sources from 2005. Who do you think you are fooling? Yourself only.
"Price is a factor, it's just less meaningful the closer the two get in price. A lot of what killed the PS3 was its price, but the 360 was hurt far more by the RROD than by its pricing issues."
Which is why it has outsold the PS3 and has made more money with higher attach rate.
Price is a huge factor as WiiU costs almost TWICE AS MUCH! The Xbox 360 could easily get a price cut and be a full HALF the price of WiiU. Rmemebr, the Nintendo developers have confessed WiiU is no more powerful than Xbox 360.
Me: "Why not tell price?"
You: "I imagine because they haven't picked a price yet"
Nonsense. Nintendo has to have picked a price. Every retailer in the company would flip their ever loving shit if Nintendo still hasn't decided on even a ballpark price. They could say "under X Hundred dollars" but they don't even do that. They could announce a high price and go down. Wallmart it seems have been given the price of $350 and leaked it.
It's very clear the WiiU will be over-$300, that is solidly FIFTY PERCENT more expensive than Xbox 360. This is a fugging horrible rip off a deal.
Wii is still THE SAME GameCube hardware slightly over-clocked. I have done over-clocking like the Wii got, it gives small performance boost. USB2.0 technology is UTTERLY IRRELVANT to the quality of games! Ethernet and SD card slots don't make the games look any better.
"Yes, the guy telling me that the Wii U supports four tablet controllers"
Liar.
Lying for malice.
Who cares where 360 got the concave thumbsticks from, this is not a fugging originality contest, I POINT THIS PUT TO SHOW WHAT KIND OF CONSOLE THE WIIU IS!!! That is is trying to be like the Xbox 360 AS A COMPETITOR!
"You're a PC gamer, according to your own claims, so you're required to like the 360 under executive order from Bill Gates."
Oh god... are you really SO FUGGING IGNORANT of PC gaming to think PC gamers love microsoft?!?!? They HATE AND DESPISE MICROSOFT. Games for Windows Live? They spit at the mention that that name from their lips. Internet Explorers is UNANIMOUSLY considered and abominable browser by PC gamers. Microsoft are tolerated because they have a monopoly on OS. Microsoft provides the operating system for PC gamers AND NOTHING ELSE!
Are you seriously still suggesting the WiiU will sell for $200? Then why not Nintendo even suggest such a thing like "sells for under $250".
You list casual games for WiiU. Now lost casual games for Xbox 360 and PS3. It's easy.
Um, AC3 and Black Ops 2 HAVE been touted for WiiU, but not at their conference as Microsoft got that exclusive reveal for their keynote and Ubisoft had their own announcment. They did show off very non-casual games like Zombie-U and Arkham City.
"Because it looks like an iPad."
Doesn't function like an iPad. No multitouch. Need 1990's style stylus for precision.
" Products don't get sold by telling the truth about them. So instead, you lie in such a way that it can't be easily detected"
By grud, what a hack. You think Microsoft and Sony will let them get away will selling such lies? They WILL call them on such BS.
me: "It's not cheap. It's not intuitive."
You: "I never made those arguments. "
Yeah, I MADE those arguments as key to Wii's success that Wii-U doesn't have either of those.
The same source that correctly revealed Wii's price leaked the Wii-U price.
You HAVE done something wrong. You have used a source you know is outdated and irrelevant to make a deceptive claim. It's irrelevant that 360 sold at a loss for a few of their launch consoles.
"It reminds me of a story in which a man denies that elephants exist, and continues to refute the evidence of their existence until he comes face-to-face with one....at which point he STILL refuses to believe in elephants. Right now, you're ignoring all of the evidence against you, either because you've never bothered to look it up for yourself, or because you'd rather remain in the dark. Either way it's your loss, not mine. I don't have to convince YOU of anything. History will prove me correct."
What did I tell you about using arguments that apply to YOU! I have given fact after fact, you have given me nonsense! You are the one denying.
You deny the WiiU's high price
You deny the WiiU's low power
You deny the WiiU's target market
You deny the equivalence between Wii and Gamecube
You deny the Wii's success from cheap casual appeal (that WiiU lacks)
I never claimed 360 was never sold for a loss. I never said Wii and gamecube were EXACTLY the same. I was obviously not literal when "no one will buy" the WiiU there are some stooges out there.
I know your sort, you will NOT accept you were wrong.
Remember, WiiU might sell very well if:
-Nintendo slashes features and sell WiiU at a price that accepts HUGE losses, trying to undercuts Xbox 360
-implausibly amasses a huge library of hugely desirable exclusive games and features extremely quickly
-Microsoft and Sony suddenly can't sell any more console
-No next-generation consoles are releases for another half decade
-WiiU suddenly has more casual appeal than Kinect with release of an as-yet unseen peripheral for WiiU
Or. Nintendo tells a huge lie that Wii-U is a next gen system and millions stupid enough to buy that lie and no one refutes it. That shouldn't happen, so it shouldn't sell to anyone but utter stooges.
PS: you'll notice every one of your huge paragraph rants can be dismissed with a simple sentence pointing out your bad sources, ignorance and inability to understand, fallacies and petty squirming to avoid the central issue.