Wii U to be quickly outdated?

[MetallicaRulez0]

Take note that despite the Wii's lacking power and graphics compared to the 360 and PS3, it still managed to outsell them both.

Correct. However, it also lagged behind in software sales because the majority of the people who bought the console never bought any games other than Wii Sports and maybe Super Mario Bros Wii. It's a Catch 22 for Nintendo, do they go for the hardcore crowd and sell fewer consoles but a higher percentage of software, or do they go for the casual crowd and sell tons of consoles and a low percentage of hardware? This is one of the big reasons they lost 3rd party support for the Wii: the games simply didn't sell very well.

 

[him over there]

Take note that despite the Wii's lacking power and graphics compared to the 360 and PS3, it still managed to outsell them both.

Correct. However, it also lagged behind in software sales because the majority of the people who bought the console never bought any games other than Wii Sports and maybe Super Mario Bros Wii. It's a Catch 22 for Nintendo, do they go for the hardcore crowd and sell fewer consoles but a higher percentage of software, or do they go for the casual crowd and sell tons of consoles and a low percentage of hardware? This is one of the big reasons they lost 3rd party support for the Wii: the games simply didn't sell very well.

Luckily the nintendo wii sold at a net profit while the other two consoles sold at a loss and made their money back on the games, Nintendo will probably pick the first option because they don't need to game sales as much.

 

[BNguyen]

I really hate that so many people forget just how well the Wii actually did and still continues to do so even if they don't hear about it that much
Nintendo actually works hard to produce interesting and exciting products while Microsoft and Sony only make a few pieces of exceptionally large hardware and expect third party companies to pick up the slack of sales. If you were to base the quality of a company solely on its first party games, then Nintendo would win every time
and a console that will out do everything else today will be amazing especially because there's little else to go in terms of hardware strengths

and to the so-called PC gaming master race Nobody but you can afford to buy room-sized computer systems and set-ups just to play games!

besides, how do we even know what the new PS or Xbox will bring to the table, everyone just automatically assumes that they'll be the next messiah of gaming when you fail to remember that when the current generation came out Nintendo actually had good looking games while the first releases for the other two were severely limited and had terrible quality

and on another note, why is everyone looking forward to the next PS when Sony's biggest sales still go towards the PS2?

 

[LilithSlave]

yeah..personally I dont really see who this console is for

It is for me who wants to play play Zelda in 1080p without relying on emulators.

Well that's a good excuse at least. I don't care much for graphics. But I'm sure I'll be pretty mesmerized by graphics being put to a game I actually care about for once, like Zelda.

 

[BNguyen]

Another big point is that most who've posted seem to forget just how flawed the 360 was right from the beginning - it tried to rush out its product to compete with the Wii and ended up making a faulty product which caused its early market losses through having to compensate for its systems failing across the board with the RRoD. The console was quite initially expensive to produce and then having to produce more to keep up with the warranties put on them, and then there was the almost complete loss when the Kinect was brought out that most consumers did not want
so the 360 fanboys are saying the next Xbox will do great even though Microsoft has tried infuriatingly to copy what Nintendo has done at a much cheaper price and while I won't argue, lower quality in terms of hardware and software power

a better marketing ploy for both Microsoft and Sony would and should have been to exclude the DVD and Bluray players in their systems. It should have been obvious that most of the consumers at that point had one of these
the inflated price would have been much lower to exclude these and the systems probably wouldn't have been as bulky as they were

 

[Treblaine]

I have done the research and shown it to Matthew94 and he's accepted it.

You have not shown your research. You've said "look for yourself".
You have not accounted for how all demonstrated WiiU graphics have been on par with Xbox 360 and PS3.
You have not accounted for WiiU's stats unable to render 1080p with anti-aliasing (same capability as Xboc 360)

As for what kind of tech is in the Wii U, let me refer to two videos linked before in this thread, that got unfortunately widely ignored.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcnsG11MRE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIbhzMHzrQU

Add to that that Sony as a company is in deep financial trouble. Building and selling a console on par with a state of the art gaming PC at the price of a console (about 500-600$) is too much of a financial risk for them to actually do it realistically.

I will readily admit that MS could just use all their Windows money to sell something like that at a tremendous loss per unit in an attempt to push the competition out of business. I have no doubt that they have the funds to do that.

I don't accept your research. But this has been posted at least once before, around page 4 or 5, and it has been ignored back then.

Oh you "don't accept" my research? So blind denialism.

I have addressed the subject of those arguments made in those videos and you are the one ignoring what I have to add to them.

There are no arguments made in this video. It's a simple side by side comparison of the console's specs, based on confirmed data. If you believe to know better I'm afraid you are the one in denial here.

But let's just address the above points one by one.

"You have not accounted for how all demonstrated WiiU graphics have been on par with Xbox 360 and PS3."

That's a simple one. Just look at the Xbox 360 launch titles compared to the last Xbox titles. It wasn't a quantum leap by any stretch of the imagination. And even more telling, compare those early Xbox 360 titles to the ones from this year. With time, developers learn to use a console more effectively. It's simple as that.

"You have not accounted for WiiU's stats unable to render 1080p with anti-aliasing (same capability as Xbox 360)"

I have no idea how you can know that. You don't happen to have a dev kit, do you?
I ran a search on that and the only thing I found is that first party games are going to 720p for now, but that the console is perfectly capable of rendering 1080p.

I've explained this to you and you've ignored it.

That video makes false speculation on game hardware that I dispute with examples such as the unable to do both 1080p and Anti-aliasing. If you read the thread and my explanation you will also find my source where I know that.

It's pure apologetics that WiiU will get better after a few years, an ACTUAL next generation is coming in a few years.

You are all practising wishful thinking, take this straight from the Horse's mouth, Nintendo themselves:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-05-nintendo-responds-to-wii-u-power-reports

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," one developer said of Nintendo's first high definition home console. "The graphics are just not as powerful."

 

[odanhammer]

As much as i've said in the past that i hope Nintendo fails at the Wii and now with the Wii U , i don't believe it will happen.
More then likely the ads will roll out in the next few months and people will want a taste of the Wii again , but with something new!
Reality being there is a huge number of people that enjoyed the Wii enough to buy the Wii U having it become a huge success for Nintendo.
As for Core gamers, we know we aren't going to tricked again by Nintendo. Unless of course you want to be.

 

[Treblaine]

snip

PS2 still sold over 50 million units since the Xbox 360 came out

http://www.pcworld.com/article/123760/playstation_2_sales_hit_100_million.html

http://www.vgchartz.com/platforms/

Most of that tile it was selling at a rate better than the PS3.

See this is why Wii vs PS3/360 is an apples and oranges comparison. No one cares that PS2 sold better than the PS3 for most of this generation, because it's old outdated and DIFFERNET tech selling for low price and not to the mainstream of the gaming market.

An unsubstantiated claim on wikipedia doesn't have any credibility to discredit. However the hardware stats are accredited and they do attest that Wii is nothing but a gamecube in a fancy new box with a DVD drive. This is not baseless assertion vs baseless assertion. This is reasoned logic with evidence vs your contradictory claims.

"By your logic, PS3 is just a remake of the PS2."

How petty. The PS3 has completely different hardware from PS2. You are playing facile word games and refusing to accept the facts: Wii has gamecube internals.

"Except that the 360's Kinect controls still are a prototype"

Nonsense. Kinect has been a successful retail product since 2010.

I never said it I made I typo, I said I made a mistake mixing up order. A flub.

"Let's meet again in three years, when you've been proven wrong on this subject, okay?"

I hear equivalent things from christians "when we are both dead and I'm in heaven and you are in hell, we'll see who is right"

[Wii sales vs Kinect sales]

Wii is cheaper than Xbox 360 + kinect. But WiiU is confirmed for $350. This is an irrelevant comparison. WiiU won't sell just because there is a "wii" in the title. It is more expensive than the competition!

"No, that isn't what I said. What I said is that no one wants to buy a $400 DVD player if they already have a DVD player"

And I have told you that the Xbox 360 is now selling for $200, not $400. It is an upscaling DVD player, perfect for HDTVs that most DVDs players sold since 1998 are not. It is also a HD media streamer with netflix and now iPlayer.

"Most people looking to "cut the cord" can do so for much cheaper through legal means on the internet"

They'll need a way of streaming that content from their PC to their HDTV. 360 does that and is good at that (integrates with their Wondows operating system) and WiiU isn't touting that.

You think I'm impressed with your very lame attempts at trolling with "you seem upset" macros. I tangle with Neo-Nazi death cults who spam me with death threats and gore images, you are nothing.

"What I've said is that making the extremist claim of "no one will buy this" when historically any console that "no one will buy" has sold several million units is simply a bad statement to make."

OK then, what about Dreamcast? What about Atari Jaguar? What about the Gamecube that also sold extremely poorly at huge losses for Nintendo?

WiiU's failure is it gives more processing power... but at $350 is a bullshit price.

If brand loyalty counts, why did Gamecube hardly sell at all, even at $99?

Look, I'm nostalgic as hell about Zelda, I played every games (except Skyward Sword) to death. But I', not a simpering sycophant who will fork over $350 for the mere possibility of nostalgia.

Wii-mote controller is still relativley more intuitive.

"None of which are selling nearly as well as their Wii counterparts"

Wii sales have tanked but it is much cheaper than 360. WiiU will be more expensive than Xbox 360

"Not many"

Is only 10-20 million units because I don't give a crap about Nintendo's money. I give a crap about platform support and WiiU will not be widely supported with only a couple million versus. Online will suffer as console need higher install bases to get good coverage (PS gets around this with dedicated servers). You cannot polish a turd, no matter how much marketing money you throw at something. WiiU's price is wrong. $350 for hardware that isn't as powerful as an xbos 360 ($199) or PS3 is a bad price. The only good marketing for WiiU is selling it for $150 which nothing suggest will be the case:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-05-nintendo-responds-to-wii-u-power-reports

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," one developer said of Nintendo's first high definition home console. "The graphics are just not as powerful."

"Where were you buying PS2 games from? You're being ripped off. My brother bought a PS2 and several games for it for much less than that, several years ago."

Ditto for wii games.

Those PC games are taking the fucking piss, like Black Ops 2. Most PC games are less than $50. See this:

You might need one of these cherry picker cranes for all the cherry picking you are doing. I have seen some special Wii games sell for £40, which is the $60 equivalent in the UK.

To care that WiiU doesn't support 2 "tablet" controllers you'd need to care about the overpriced inferior 360 clone in the first place. People will care when there is a HD Zelda game. Metroid Prime franchise is worthless, Zelda is the only thing Nintendo hasn't totally milked dry. Who cares abotu 4 tablets! What is this gimmicky crap!??!

Also, you are bullshitting me here. First you talk about how "everyone has spare wiimotes around" which is number one false, but even assuming they were enough, that is DIFFERENT from how WiiU could use two tablet controllers. First you say "loads of extra Wii-motes" now it's suddenly about extra WiiU tablet controllers. WTF is your game??!?
-The console will only come with one of those tablet controllers
-We have no idea how much extra tablet controllers will cost
-We don't have any reason to want multiple tablet controllers

Multiple NORMAL gamepads I see the appeal, but multiple sub screens?!?! WHY!!!?!?

Stop kidding yourself with these facile and concocted "gotcha" crap.


I give you a source from 2006 and you give me TWO very unreliable and outdated sources from 2005. Who do you think you are fooling? Yourself only.

"Price is a factor, it's just less meaningful the closer the two get in price. A lot of what killed the PS3 was its price, but the 360 was hurt far more by the RROD than by its pricing issues."

Which is why it has outsold the PS3 and has made more money with higher attach rate.

Price is a huge factor as WiiU costs almost TWICE AS MUCH! The Xbox 360 could easily get a price cut and be a full HALF the price of WiiU. Rmemebr, the Nintendo developers have confessed WiiU is no more powerful than Xbox 360.

Me: "Why not tell price?"
You: "I imagine because they haven't picked a price yet"

Nonsense. Nintendo has to have picked a price. Every retailer in the company would flip their ever loving shit if Nintendo still hasn't decided on even a ballpark price. They could say "under X Hundred dollars" but they don't even do that. They could announce a high price and go down. Wallmart it seems have been given the price of $350 and leaked it.

It's very clear the WiiU will be over-$300, that is solidly FIFTY PERCENT more expensive than Xbox 360. This is a fugging horrible rip off a deal.

Wii is still THE SAME GameCube hardware slightly over-clocked. I have done over-clocking like the Wii got, it gives small performance boost. USB2.0 technology is UTTERLY IRRELVANT to the quality of games! Ethernet and SD card slots don't make the games look any better.

"Yes, the guy telling me that the Wii U supports four tablet controllers"

Liar.

Lying for malice.

Who cares where 360 got the concave thumbsticks from, this is not a fugging originality contest, I POINT THIS PUT TO SHOW WHAT KIND OF CONSOLE THE WIIU IS!!! That is is trying to be like the Xbox 360 AS A COMPETITOR!

"You're a PC gamer, according to your own claims, so you're required to like the 360 under executive order from Bill Gates."

Oh god... are you really SO FUGGING IGNORANT of PC gaming to think PC gamers love microsoft?!?!? They HATE AND DESPISE MICROSOFT. Games for Windows Live? They spit at the mention that that name from their lips. Internet Explorers is UNANIMOUSLY considered and abominable browser by PC gamers. Microsoft are tolerated because they have a monopoly on OS. Microsoft provides the operating system for PC gamers AND NOTHING ELSE!

Are you seriously still suggesting the WiiU will sell for $200? Then why not Nintendo even suggest such a thing like "sells for under $250".

You list casual games for WiiU. Now lost casual games for Xbox 360 and PS3. It's easy.

Um, AC3 and Black Ops 2 HAVE been touted for WiiU, but not at their conference as Microsoft got that exclusive reveal for their keynote and Ubisoft had their own announcment. They did show off very non-casual games like Zombie-U and Arkham City.

"Because it looks like an iPad."

Doesn't function like an iPad. No multitouch. Need 1990's style stylus for precision.

" Products don't get sold by telling the truth about them. So instead, you lie in such a way that it can't be easily detected"

By grud, what a hack. You think Microsoft and Sony will let them get away will selling such lies? They WILL call them on such BS.

me: "It's not cheap. It's not intuitive."
You: "I never made those arguments. "

Yeah, I MADE those arguments as key to Wii's success that Wii-U doesn't have either of those.

The same source that correctly revealed Wii's price leaked the Wii-U price.

You HAVE done something wrong. You have used a source you know is outdated and irrelevant to make a deceptive claim. It's irrelevant that 360 sold at a loss for a few of their launch consoles.

"It reminds me of a story in which a man denies that elephants exist, and continues to refute the evidence of their existence until he comes face-to-face with one....at which point he STILL refuses to believe in elephants. Right now, you're ignoring all of the evidence against you, either because you've never bothered to look it up for yourself, or because you'd rather remain in the dark. Either way it's your loss, not mine. I don't have to convince YOU of anything. History will prove me correct."

What did I tell you about using arguments that apply to YOU! I have given fact after fact, you have given me nonsense! You are the one denying.

You deny the WiiU's high price
You deny the WiiU's low power
You deny the WiiU's target market
You deny the equivalence between Wii and Gamecube
You deny the Wii's success from cheap casual appeal (that WiiU lacks)

I never claimed 360 was never sold for a loss. I never said Wii and gamecube were EXACTLY the same. I was obviously not literal when "no one will buy" the WiiU there are some stooges out there.

I know your sort, you will NOT accept you were wrong.

Remember, WiiU might sell very well if:
-Nintendo slashes features and sell WiiU at a price that accepts HUGE losses, trying to undercuts Xbox 360
-implausibly amasses a huge library of hugely desirable exclusive games and features extremely quickly
-Microsoft and Sony suddenly can't sell any more console
-No next-generation consoles are releases for another half decade
-WiiU suddenly has more casual appeal than Kinect with release of an as-yet unseen peripheral for WiiU

Or. Nintendo tells a huge lie that Wii-U is a next gen system and millions stupid enough to buy that lie and no one refutes it. That shouldn't happen, so it shouldn't sell to anyone but utter stooges.

PS: you'll notice every one of your huge paragraph rants can be dismissed with a simple sentence pointing out your bad sources, ignorance and inability to understand, fallacies and petty squirming to avoid the central issue.

 

[J Tyran]

iPhones and iPads are NOT going to stream HD movies and on-demand premium-TV shows to your HDTV. Xbox 360 will. This is great for people on alternate cable packages who want to buy other cable shows or to "cut the cord" entirely.

Already outdated, TVs no longer need any external device for internet streaming. Give it 12 months or so and more and more people will have these TVs in there home. Some of them also have Xbox Kinect style motion controllers built in too.

 

[triggrhappy94]

The Wii's already outdated.
Nintendo's never really seemed to care about having the beefiest consoles.
They are normally the most indestructable though. Well they used to be.

 

[Davroth]

I have done the research and shown it to Matthew94 and he's accepted it.

You have not shown your research. You've said "look for yourself".
You have not accounted for how all demonstrated WiiU graphics have been on par with Xbox 360 and PS3.
You have not accounted for WiiU's stats unable to render 1080p with anti-aliasing (same capability as Xboc 360)

As for what kind of tech is in the Wii U, let me refer to two videos linked before in this thread, that got unfortunately widely ignored.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcnsG11MRE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIbhzMHzrQU

Add to that that Sony as a company is in deep financial trouble. Building and selling a console on par with a state of the art gaming PC at the price of a console (about 500-600$) is too much of a financial risk for them to actually do it realistically.

I will readily admit that MS could just use all their Windows money to sell something like that at a tremendous loss per unit in an attempt to push the competition out of business. I have no doubt that they have the funds to do that.

I don't accept your research. But this has been posted at least once before, around page 4 or 5, and it has been ignored back then.

Oh you "don't accept" my research? So blind denialism.

I have addressed the subject of those arguments made in those videos and you are the one ignoring what I have to add to them.

There are no arguments made in this video. It's a simple side by side comparison of the console's specs, based on confirmed data. If you believe to know better I'm afraid you are the one in denial here.

But let's just address the above points one by one.

"You have not accounted for how all demonstrated WiiU graphics have been on par with Xbox 360 and PS3."

That's a simple one. Just look at the Xbox 360 launch titles compared to the last Xbox titles. It wasn't a quantum leap by any stretch of the imagination. And even more telling, compare those early Xbox 360 titles to the ones from this year. With time, developers learn to use a console more effectively. It's simple as that.

"You have not accounted for WiiU's stats unable to render 1080p with anti-aliasing (same capability as Xbox 360)"

I have no idea how you can know that. You don't happen to have a dev kit, do you?
I ran a search on that and the only thing I found is that first party games are going to 720p for now, but that the console is perfectly capable of rendering 1080p.

I've explained this to you and you've ignored it.

That video makes false speculation on game hardware that I dispute with examples such as the unable to do both 1080p and Anti-aliasing. If you read the thread and my explanation you will also find my source where I know that.

It's pure apologetics that WiiU will get better after a few years, an ACTUAL next generation is coming in a few years.

You are all practising wishful thinking, take this straight from the Horse's mouth, Nintendo themselves:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-05-nintendo-responds-to-wii-u-power-reports

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," one developer said of Nintendo's first high definition home console. "The graphics are just not as powerful."

Ah.. I went through everything that article led to, and nothing in there either named a specific developer who made that statement, or showed the source of that so called official Nintendo statement. I did find them saying that they wont comment at that point, and that's not indicative of anything really.

If you don't have anything better to offer, I'm afraid that doesn't sell it to me.

Anyway let's see what I have as far as testimonies goes.

http://uk.gamespot.com/aliens-colonial-marines-2012/videos/aliens-colonial-marines-interview-with-randy-pitchford-6377485/

Gearbox's Randy Pitchford (who is not afraid to put his name to his statement) claims that the Wii U is a true next generation console.

But hey, if anonymous sources are more your speed, how about this?

http://www.develop-online.net/news/39593/Wii-U-twice-as-powerful-as-Xbox-360

An anonymous source said the Wii U is "twice" as powerful as the Xbox 360.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/01/24/xbox-720-will-be-six-times-as-powerful-as-current-gen

Another anonymous source claims that the next Xbox will be "six times" as powerful as the current gen, yet only 20% more powerful then the Wii U.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wii-u-is-actually-50-more-powerful-than-ps3---report/

Here we have a statement from a one year old report claiming that the Wii U is 50% more powerful then the current generation consoles.


Actually, I haven't seen one official Nintendo statement about the technical specs of the Wii U aside from what they have on their website, which is very unspecific. But hey, obviously your anonymous sources are better then mine, since they reflect more closely what you are willing to believe.


As for games on a system looking better late in a console's life cycle compared to launch titles, compare screenshots from GUN, a Xbox 360 launch title:

http://uk.ign.com/images/games/gun-xbox-360-758695

to Red Dead Redemption, which released in 2010:

http://uk.ign.com/images/games/red-dead-redemption-xbox-360-14320288

Are you gonna tell me that there hasn't been an improvement in graphic fidelity?


And finally, are you telling me that IGN is just blatantly lying about the Wii U's specs on their website?

http://uk.ign.com/wikis/wii-u/Wii_U_Tech_Specs

Let me answer that for you. No. They give sources for all the information they have, about what CPU and GPU is going to be in the Wii U.


I don't really understand why it's so hard to believe that a console based on technology from 2009/2010 is going to be far more potent then a console based on technology from 2005/2006.

 

[MaxiP62]

I was thinking that it would be outdated, but apparently there isn't another Xbox planned for at LEAST 2 years from now, and a new Playstation won't be arriving for about the same amount of time. So I would say they will have about 3 years of being relevant, 2 maybe 3 years of being outdated like the Wii.

The playing field has changed, the success of the Wii shows that, I think the Wii U will be successful, people said the Wii was going to flop, but it clearly didn't. But you can't predict these things, we will have to wait and see.

 

[Treblaine]

I have done the research and shown it to Matthew94 and he's accepted it.

You have not shown your research. You've said "look for yourself".
You have not accounted for how all demonstrated WiiU graphics have been on par with Xbox 360 and PS3.
You have not accounted for WiiU's stats unable to render 1080p with anti-aliasing (same capability as Xboc 360)

As for what kind of tech is in the Wii U, let me refer to two videos linked before in this thread, that got unfortunately widely ignored.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcnsG11MRE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIbhzMHzrQU

Add to that that Sony as a company is in deep financial trouble. Building and selling a console on par with a state of the art gaming PC at the price of a console (about 500-600$) is too much of a financial risk for them to actually do it realistically.

I will readily admit that MS could just use all their Windows money to sell something like that at a tremendous loss per unit in an attempt to push the competition out of business. I have no doubt that they have the funds to do that.

I don't accept your research. But this has been posted at least once before, around page 4 or 5, and it has been ignored back then.

Oh you "don't accept" my research? So blind denialism.

I have addressed the subject of those arguments made in those videos and you are the one ignoring what I have to add to them.

There are no arguments made in this video. It's a simple side by side comparison of the console's specs, based on confirmed data. If you believe to know better I'm afraid you are the one in denial here.

But let's just address the above points one by one.

"You have not accounted for how all demonstrated WiiU graphics have been on par with Xbox 360 and PS3."

That's a simple one. Just look at the Xbox 360 launch titles compared to the last Xbox titles. It wasn't a quantum leap by any stretch of the imagination. And even more telling, compare those early Xbox 360 titles to the ones from this year. With time, developers learn to use a console more effectively. It's simple as that.

"You have not accounted for WiiU's stats unable to render 1080p with anti-aliasing (same capability as Xbox 360)"

I have no idea how you can know that. You don't happen to have a dev kit, do you?
I ran a search on that and the only thing I found is that first party games are going to 720p for now, but that the console is perfectly capable of rendering 1080p.

I've explained this to you and you've ignored it.

That video makes false speculation on game hardware that I dispute with examples such as the unable to do both 1080p and Anti-aliasing. If you read the thread and my explanation you will also find my source where I know that.

It's pure apologetics that WiiU will get better after a few years, an ACTUAL next generation is coming in a few years.

You are all practising wishful thinking, take this straight from the Horse's mouth, Nintendo themselves:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-05-nintendo-responds-to-wii-u-power-reports

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," one developer said of Nintendo's first high definition home console. "The graphics are just not as powerful."

Ah.. I went through everything that article led to, and nothing in there either named a specific developer who made that statement, or showed the source of that so called official Nintendo statement. I did find them saying that they wont comment at that point, and that's not indicative of anything really.

If you don't have anything better to offer, I'm afraid that doesn't sell it to me.

Anyway let's see what I have as far as testimonies goes.

http://uk.gamespot.com/aliens-colonial-marines-2012/videos/aliens-colonial-marines-interview-with-randy-pitchford-6377485/

Gearbox's Randy Pitchford (who is not afraid to put his name to his statement) claims that the Wii U is a true next generation console.

But hey, if anonymous sources are more your speed, how about this?

http://www.develop-online.net/news/39593/Wii-U-twice-as-powerful-as-Xbox-360

An anonymous source said the Wii U is "twice" as powerful as the Xbox 360.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/01/24/xbox-720-will-be-six-times-as-powerful-as-current-gen

Another anonymous source claims that the next Xbox will be "six times" as powerful as the current gen, yet only 20% more powerful then the Wii U.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wii-u-is-actually-50-more-powerful-than-ps3---report/

Here we have a statement from a one year old report claiming that the Wii U is 50% more powerful then the current generation consoles.


Actually, I haven't seen one official Nintendo statement about the technical specs of the Wii U aside from what they have on their website, which is very unspecific. But hey, obviously your anonymous sources are better then mine, since they reflect more closely what you are willing to believe.

As for games on a system looking better late in a console's life cycle compared to launch titles, compare screenshots from GUN, a Xbox 360 launch title:

http://uk.ign.com/images/games/gun-xbox-360-758695

to Red Dead Redemption, which released in 2010:

http://uk.ign.com/images/games/red-dead-redemption-xbox-360-14320288

Are you gonna tell me that there hasn't been an improvement in graphic fidelity?


And finally, are you telling me that IGN is just blatantly lying about the Wii U's specs on their website?


http://uk.ign.com/wikis/wii-u/Wii_U_Tech_Specs

Let me answer that for you. No. They give sources for all the information they have, about what CPU and GPU is going to be in the Wii U.


I don't really understand why it's so hard to believe that a console based on technology from 2009/2010 is going to be far more potent then a console based on technology from 2005/2006.

Randy says WiiU is next gen in the same way they said people used to say Original Wii was same generation as PS3/360, i.e. without any explicit statement of hardware capability. Being 50% more powerful isn't enough. He was careful with his words "best console version". It can't be next-gen if it doesn't lap the latest PC capability even when it launches. Being a "bit better" is NOT NEXT GENERATIONAL! In the previous generation the Xbox consistently had the "best console version" that doesn't mean the Original Xbox was a generation ahead of PS2 and Gamecube.

Generation =/= iteration

Gun was developed for PS2/Xbox and ported to Xbox 360 late in the development. Not the best example. Compare Call of Duty 2 to the latest CoD games. Very similar graphics. Compare like for like, the same engine. GTA4 was developed for PS3 and 360 since they were first available compare that to Red Dead Redemption that used the same engine but they just got "better at coding for it". Look at the GTA5 trailer, it's a similar story there using the same engine. This is not denial. This is me refuting your argument with logic and examples. Comparing like for like, games using the same engine being of very similar quality from beginning of a console's cycle to more recent.

The main progress has not been in coding for particular engines but developing newer better engines that pass on those benefits to all similar systems, and WiiU seems to have very similar hardware to 360 (IBM cpu, AMD graphics chip, unified video/system memory, unified shaders) that mean today's xbox 360 games look better than those of 2006. Yet you aren't seeing that huge generational leap with WiiU in terms of graphical capability. CoD from then to today looks so similar because it's the same engine but just modified.



Amazingly similar between WiiU and Xbox 360. WiiU is NOT next gen hardware.

IGN is probably right about the vague aspects but they were careful in saying where they were taking a blind unreasoned guess. The leaked data is only as vague as AMD R7xx series which is a WIDE range of graphics chips and is probably not the HD 4800 from how the same source indicates the graphics chip cannot handle 1080p output AS WELL as anti-aliasing. I have explained this already, HD 4800 should be able to output 1080p with up to 8xAA, yet WiiU cannot do 1080p AND anti-aliasing. Also the HD4800 is a very expensive chip while there are much cheaper chipsets from the R7xx series.

IGN and You are unsafe to conclude it is a HD 4800.

"I don't really understand why it's so hard to believe that a console based on technology from 2009/2010 is going to be far more potent then a console based on technology from 2005/2006."

Because Nintendo has insufficient influence in manufacturing and patent licencing compared to Microsoft and Sony who are the richest companies in the world owning tens of thousands of patents, Nintendo cannot get the same tech as cheap as those two big companies can. It may be able to be a little bit more powerful or on parity but for a much higher cost, as indicated by the price. Look how Nintendo spent $160 to manufacture each Nintendo Wii when Microsoft spent only $275 per Xbox 360 (both compared without HDD) for a system hugely more capable.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20061120132150.html

Nintendo can't get as good bang for their buck in manufacturing. Evidence is mounting so high of WiiU being significantly more expensive than the $199 price tag of Xbox 360 while not being that much better.

Also Nintendo Wii hasn't demonstrated any more than subtle graphical advancement like you've seen already on games like Uncharted 3.

Consider when Xbox 360 launched, Call of Duty 2 looked a whole order of magnitude better than anything on PS2, Original Xbox or Gamecube. You didn't have the same excuses back then of "ooh give it a few years, then Xbox 360 will start looking better than that old Playstation 2." No. Right out the gate no one could deny that Xbox 360 looked way better than anything on PS2, Original Xbox or Gamecube.

 

[Davroth]

-snip-

Would you mind pointing me exactly to were it say that the console isn't able to display 1080p and AA? I can't find that.

 

[him over there]

-snip-

Would you mind pointing me exactly to were it say that the console isn't able to display 1080p and AA? I can't find that.

Rumoured tech specs are floating around.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/352365/full-wii-u-specs-allegedly-leaked-at-e3-tri-core-cpu-15gb-ram-8gb-flash/

"32MB high-bandwidth eDRAM, supports 720p 4x MSAA or 1080p rendering in a single pass."

I will say this. Don't try to argue specs until we get official specs, we don't know what GPU or CPU this will have apart from vague names like "IBM PowerPC" CPU and "AMD GPU".

Just wait for the real specs.

Waiting for the real specs is obvious, at least I hope it is before we start arguing about them. Though I admit I'd feel a lot more comfortable talking about them if I had any idea of what you just posted meant.

 

[him over there]

-snip-

Would you mind pointing me exactly to were it say that the console isn't able to display 1080p and AA? I can't find that.

Rumoured tech specs are floating around.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/352365/full-wii-u-specs-allegedly-leaked-at-e3-tri-core-cpu-15gb-ram-8gb-flash/

"32MB high-bandwidth eDRAM, supports 720p 4x MSAA or 1080p rendering in a single pass."

I will say this. Don't try to argue specs until we get official specs, we don't know what GPU or CPU this will have apart from vague names like "IBM PowerPC" CPU and "AMD GPU".

Just wait for the real specs.

Waiting for the real specs is obvious, at least I hope it is before we start arguing about them. Though I admit I'd feel a lot more comfortable talking about them if I had any idea of what you just posted meant.

The rumoured specs say that the console will only be able to use AA at 720P, at 1080P it won't be able to do it.

I find this doubtful as games are different and you could easily pull off 1080P with AA on a low powered game even on the PS3 and xbox.

Okay from my extremely layman knowledge AA is anti-aliasing correct? I know that it's one of the many points brought up when comparing pcs to consoles but what exactly does it do?

 

[Treblaine]

-snip-

Would you mind pointing me exactly to were it say that the console isn't able to display 1080p and AA? I can't find that.

Rumoured tech specs are floating around.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/352365/full-wii-u-specs-allegedly-leaked-at-e3-tri-core-cpu-15gb-ram-8gb-flash/

"32MB high-bandwidth eDRAM, supports 720p 4x MSAA or 1080p rendering in a single pass."

I will say this. Don't try to argue specs until we get official specs, we don't know what GPU or CPU this will have apart from vague names like "IBM PowerPC" CPU and "AMD GPU".

Just wait for the real specs.

Waiting for the real specs is obvious, at least I hope it is before we start arguing about them. Though I admit I'd feel a lot more comfortable talking about them if I had any idea of what you just posted meant.

The rumoured specs say that the console will only be able to use AA at 720P, at 1080P it won't be able to do it.

I find this doubtful as games are different and you could easily pull off 1080P with AA on a low powered game even on the PS3 and xbox.

Yes some PS3 games were 1080p, but those were comparatively basic PS3 games like Wipeout HD that was a narrow and spartan racing game. Also the likes of Gran Turismo 5 didn't actually have 1080p output which is precisely 1920x1080, the native resolution was 1280x1080 anamorphic, so it was stretched horizontally when upscaled, so horizontal resolution was same as 720p (1280x720).

That point of "1080p no AA" really does point to graphics almost identical to PS3/360 in actual rendering capability. Maybe 360 has some unique pathways but ditto for PS3 and 360 relative to each other.

Remember how when PS3 was coming out there were sporadic claims that "ooh, PS3 Is 50% more powerful... no, TWICE as powerful" but turns out they were talking about just one small aspect that was twice as powerful and it didn't have it where it counted in graphics power. You could tell looking at the PS3 before launch it wasn't actually more powerful than Xbox 360. And you can see the same today with the WiiU. No excuses about "it'll get better with time". That didn't work for PS3, it won't work for WiiU. The difference is PS3 was 1 year late. WiiU is SEVEN years too late.

PS3 got sorted by cutting price to parity with Xbox 360 and recruiting a huge number of talented developers to work exclusively on their system, like:
-Naughty Dog
-Insomniac
-Media Molecule
-Santa Monica Studios (God of War)
-Sucker Punch
-Guerilla Games
-Evolution Studios (Motorstorm)
-Ready at Dawn Studios
-Polyphony digital

Nintendo has Miyamoto and anything he isn't working on loses all creative drive or even basic quality: Look at Metroid Other M. Wii had a very slow drip-feed of worth-while exclusives, one per year then giving up for this year. Yes it's building a new R&D building, but that's after they just demolished a building in America.

 

[Treblaine]

snip

Yeah, I don't really care.

I'm just saying. You cannot say "the console cannot do AA at 1080P", that's bullshit. It can do it, I don't care if it is just for Pong. That's what takes credibility from the source. And I am well aware of the tricks they used for Wipeout and the like.

Well if it was a credible source it wouldn't be as banal as saying "yeah it can do 1080p and 8xAA, but only with pong" it is talking about that resolution with at least the current standards of graphic fidelity.

But if this subject is exhausting you it's draining me. Having to explain the same things over and over again and still some people (even the same person) then asks the same thing I just refuted as if it's a "gotcha" question.

Well I'm fed up. Nintendo got undeserved credit for taking on PS3 and 360 as if it had a better product... when all it had was a cheaper one that was competing more with PS2 by its temporal price point and capability.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

Look at tech specs for every other console. They never mention anything like that, only the output resolution.

I'm not tired of this, I have just stopped caring. I mean, someone (I won't use the word I am thinking of) thinks the PS4 will have a 7970 in it despite the quoted power in GFLOPS being less than half of the 7970 and lower than the 7850. Never mind the fact that having a 7970 would mean a huge pricetag or a late 2014 release date and it would massive power and heat issues.

Wait for actual tech specs.

Though, I am feeling in a generous mood so I'll give you some ammo just to keep you arguing with people. (You can enlarge the image)

You could argue PS3 has the edge here. This must means so much! Go wild.

Wow, the WiiU actually looks a bit smoother then the PS3 version, though that might be my eyes, and it might be because the Batman is now wearing stomach armor.

 

[Grygor]

The Wii's already outdated.
Nintendo's never really seemed to care about having the beefiest consoles.
They are normally the most indestructable though. Well they used to be.

That's funny, because I seem to recall basically every Nintendo console prior to the Wii being sold specifically on their "beefiness", most particularly the SNES and especially the N64.