Wii U to be quickly outdated?

[Treblaine]

It didn't leach off their reputation.

Back then the PS3 had a reputation for being overpriced and having no games while the xbox had a reputation for melting at anything above 0K.

Just accept that the Wii did well and the Wii U will probably do well too.

Nonsense, 360 was not JUST known for "that device that does nothing else but break". It was known because the Xbox 360 was so well liked that it was an personal travesty that one spontaneously breaks. A lot of gossip on forums but to spite all the people I know who have played Xbox 360 for years I don't know any who have had any RROD problems.

PS3 was very expensive on launch but dropped in price and manufacturing costs relatively quickly, $399 with a large hard-drive in mid 2008, a little over a year since it was launched in Europe.

PS3 and 360 were know for their graphical capability and general reputation as established by the last several console generation leaps that the next generation is in every way better.

"Just accept that the Wii did well"

I accept that it made quite a bit of money and technically sold the most units, I don't accept that it did that by merit or that it took on PS3/360. You are ignoring almost EVERY effective argument I use. I am refuting EVERYTHING you say.

 

[Davroth]

You treat that one article like it's infallible.

What I said about Nintendo is my opinion, and that's not up for discussion. Not as long as we don't have reliable data. We don't.

Other M is an abomination.

There's only 2 types of people who believe Other M is an abomination. People who have an unhealthy attachment to the Metroid "mythos", and people who listen to the people in camp one. Other M is not an objectively bad game, people need to stop selling it as one.

 

[Danzavare]

It'll be as strong as its gimmick. Wait, that doesn't sound right. It'll be go as well as the initial hype for the gimmick lets it.

Not that I hate it. I just don't think anyone is going to be buying it for similar reasons they'd by an Xbox or Playstation. Sure it offers gaming, but it'll be a different kind of gaming (for better or worse).

 

[Riff Moonraker]

I think the success of the Wii can almost wholeheartedly be attributed to the casual gamer crowd. Yes, before someone chimes in, I know there are hardcore nintendo gamers that bought the Wii. But I think a vast majority of the console sales for the Wii came from those that bought it, played it a little, and shelved it. They are out at midnight releases waiting for the next shooter, or RPG, etc. etc. Maybe in Japan, but thats about it.

Thats fine, it worked for them, and they sold boatloads.

However, NOW they are going to try and come out with something capable of running the current gens more graphically enhanced and complex games. Guess who will not be buying said games? The casual soccer mom and grannie crowds that bought the Wii in droves. Sure, the diehard Nintendo folks will, but I predict they wont be enough to help it hold its own against the two consoles who specialize in these type of games. Not to mention, the crowds the 360 and the PS3 cater to are NOT going to drop those consoles and start doing all their shopping on a WiiU. At least, not the majority... of that I feel pretty certain.

In short, I think the Wii was so successful because it offered something that could go hand in hand with the 360 and the PS3 without putting anyone in a position where they had to choose one or the other, because it has a basic different appeal and niche than the 360 and the PS3. Now, they are going to change that strategy, and put themselves squarely against the other big two, and I dont think its going to result in a big payday for them.

I could be wrong, but thats how I see it happening.

 

[Treblaine]

You treat that one article like it's infallible.

What I said about Nintendo is my opinion, and that's not up for discussion. Not as long as we don't have reliable data. We don't.

Other M is an abomination.

There's only 2 types of people who believe Other M is an abomination. People who have an unhealthy attachment to the Metroid "mythos", and people who listen to the people in camp one. Other M is not an objectively bad game, people need to stop selling it as one.

Look, it's easy to make mistakes misjudging the market. They have done so before. That's not unreasonable expectation of fallibility.

But it's totally implausible that gamesindustrybiz would make such a mistake as misquote two separate developers that corroborate each other. What YOU are suggesting is a huge and malicious lie. Gamesindustrybizz could not get away with such a lie and they have not lied before and have no reason to lie in the first place. Nintendo uses double talk and deceptive implication, but not actual bare faced lies. Nintendo was quoted by eurogamer dodging the issue of being specific on relative graphical capability. I'm fed up of all your superficial arguments that you KNOW are not relevant but do nothing but cast hollow aspersions.

PS: attachment to the mythos is the entire reason people are attracted to the series. Otherwise why bother with the Wii if not for the franchises? There is a case of nintendo's fallibility, they had to chose a developer for Metroid, admittedly a hard choice, but they gave it to the guys who made Bikini Beach Volleyball AFTER their star talented lead designer left the company.

 

[Treblaine]

Stop replying to Treblaine, he's just a troll or an ignorant(, dunno which is worse.) saying 100 times Wii compete with PS2 lol.

Btw one of the reasons for PS2 high sales was because it's a weak console, literally weak, it breaks easily, I bought two of them, fortunantly one of them was second hand, meaning it doesn't count on sales numbers. I bet everyone knows friends that ended up buying 2 PS2, maybe even 3.
And there was a strong rumour GTA breaks the console, I can't say it's confirmed, but my ps2 got fucked up while playing GTA Vice City and my second PS2 was getting fucked up while playing GTA SA so I stopped playing it.

"And there was a strong rumour GTA breaks the console,"

Really? You call me an ignorant troll backing on rumours like this!?!

Don't insult people's intelligence acting like I am just "saying" Wii competed with PS2, as if I never gave any reason or rationale. You call me ignorant or a troll when you don't even consider my reasoned arguments?

So you are saying everyone should ignore me... because I'm ignorant. That is wilful ignorance. That is hypocrisy. That is fallacy. That is denial.

If you don't want a discussion, what are you doing on a discussion forum?

 

[Treblaine]

My PC in 2001 (or maybe before, it was a PIII) had an HDD the same size as the PS3, wow how advanced. Only about half a decade to reach parity.

They also dropped all BC hence why they could lower the price. No one seems to remember all the shit they removed like BC, memory card readers etc. In the newest revision they lowered the power usage by about a measly 2W yet made the heatsink smaller, that's just going cheap.

I know tons of people who encountered the RROD. I know a few people who are on their 4th xbox, I am on my 3rd PS3.

You are refuting everything I say? If you believe that, ok. Just keep using anonymous sources and using arguments like "I like the games on the PS3 better, therefore the Wii is a scam and a failure". When you said the "I'm arguing because I don't like that people like the Wii", you lost all credibility in my eyes. My thoughts were "sure is N4G in here" after you said that.

Yeah, how much did your PC cost in 2001 and how many files did you have to store on it compared to the comparatively few on PS3? All you've made is an irrelevant apples and oranges comparison.

360 never had full Backwards-compatibility, just a few games through "emulation profiles". Wii's backwards compatibility is a joke, there is no emulation IT USES GAMECUBE HARDWARE! Slightly over-clocked, with other stuff bolted on, but the same stuff.

Tons of people eh? I know tons of people who have not touched their Nintendo Wii in years as there is NOTHING worth playing on it. It couldn't break from use, it is hardly ever used.

I have gone through everything you've said point by point and you've just accepted or ignored almost every thing but a few that you add an irrelevant point to, like your rule that the weakest cosnole wins every generation.

gamesindustrybiz is not anonymous. They know who they are talking to. You have IGNORED this part.

"using arguments like "I like the games on the PS3 better, therefore the Wii is a scam and a failure""

Liar.

Never said anything like that, not anything remotely like that or implied in any way to that. You have the nerve to even use quotation marks in supposedly quoting me though I NEVER SAID THAT!

" you lost all credibility in my eyes."

You LIE about what I say and you say that causes ME to lose credibility?!? You know credibility means "not lying" right?

 

[Davroth]

You treat that one article like it's infallible.

What I said about Nintendo is my opinion, and that's not up for discussion. Not as long as we don't have reliable data. We don't.

Other M is an abomination.

There's only 2 types of people who believe Other M is an abomination. People who have an unhealthy attachment to the Metroid "mythos", and people who listen to the people in camp one. Other M is not an objectively bad game, people need to stop selling it as one.

Look, it's easy to make mistakes misjudging the market. They have done so before. That's not unreasonable expectation of fallibility.

But it's totally implausible that gamesindustrybiz would make such a mistake as misquote two separate developers that corroborate each other. What YOU are suggesting is a huge and malicious lie. Gamesindustrybizz could not get away with such a lie and they have not lied before and have no reason to lie in the first place. Nintendo uses double talk and deceptive implication, but not actual bare faced lies. Nintendo was quoted by eurogamer dodging the issue of being specific on relative graphical capability. I'm fed up of all your superficial arguments that you KNOW are not relevant but do nothing but cast hollow aspersions.

PS: attachment to the mythos is the entire reason people are attracted to the series. Otherwise why bother with the Wii if not for the franchises? There is a case of nintendo's fallibility, they had to chose a developer for Metroid, admittedly a hard choice, but they gave it to the guys who made Bikini Beach Volleyball AFTER their star talented lead designer left the company.

I'm fed up with you selling rumors as certainty. You know what? Maybe Nintendo doesn't know yet how powerful the system is going to be. The Xbox 360 received a last minute ram upgrade prior to launch after taking developer feedback into account. The has been talk that there is more then one dev kit around, too. Once they give us the specs, we will know. Not before.

That article convinces me of nothing, no matter how hard you want to push it. Because guess what? if it turns out the Wii U is more powerful then they give it credit for, they can just turn around and say "Looks like they upgraded it from when we saw it", and just shrug. It doesn't dent their reputation in the least. Every reputable newspaper has to make corrections once in a while. You know what a story like this does, though? Generate astounding amounts of hits.

I see you don't understand what makes a franchise like Metroid attractive. And I'm not really surprised. Nowadays it seems to be enough to slap a new coat of paint on a thrid/first person shooter and sell it as an exciting, new IP. If you take the Metroid series as a whole, the uniting aspect is not the story, it's the feel. And even if you change the gameplay, which they did with the Prime games, the feel still is the same. A sense of exploration and isolation in a completely hostile enviroment, with upgrades gradually unlocking more and more of the world. That's what's great about the Metroid franchise, not the mythos.

 

[Treblaine]

Calm down, you seem irritated.

Anyway. I mentioned how they took out BC from the PS3 as a cost cutting measure (amongst other things) and you talk about how the 360 BC was shit and the Wiis was flawless, I thought you were against the Wii? Sounds like a point in it's favour.

You mention people who say it is underpowered, some say it is fine. Potato potato.

I'm not a liar. 1/2 of your argument is "look at the games on the other consoles", you copied that list in about 5 times.

Hey, if you are going to resort to insults then I won't go on. You could at least be civil.

Jeeeeeez

I don't like people lying about me then denying my credibility - calling me untrustworthy. And don't lie about not being a liar. I just told you where you lied and what you say in your defence does not refute your lie. It is not an insult to call out lies told against myself. Lying about fellow forum users to prop up your position is NOT civil.

How hypocritical to call for me to be civil after how you have been.

PS: how can you interpret me saying "Wii's BC is flawless" from me actually saying "Wii's backwards compatibility is a joke"?

 

[MrGseff]

Of course its going to be quickly outdated. I love Nintendo and all but even I don't think I will be buying this console unless it can persuade me with solid new Zelda's and a Metroid Prime... and Banjo Threeie (I know Microsoft own Rare now, but god darn I want Banjo Threeie)

 

[Treblaine]

I'm fed up with you selling rumors as certainty. You know what? Maybe Nintendo doesn't know yet how powerful the system is going to be. The Xbox 360 received a last minute ram upgrade prior to launch after taking developer feedback into account. The has been talk that there is more then one dev kit around, too. Once they give us the specs, we will know. Not before.

That article convinces me of nothing, no matter how hard you want to push it. Because guess what? if it turns out the Wii U is more powerful then they give it credit for, they can just turn around and say "Looks like they upgraded it from when we saw it", and just shrug. It doesn't dent their reputation in the least. Every reputable newspaper has to make corrections once in a while. You know what a story like this does, though? Generate astounding amounts of hits.

I see you don't understand what makes a franchise like Metroid attractive. And I'm not really surprised. Nowadays it seems to be enough to slap a new coat of paint on a thrid/first person shooter and sell it as an exciting, new IP. If you take the Metroid series as a whole, the uniting aspect is not the story, it's the feel. And even if you change the gameplay, which they did with the Prime games, the feel still is the same. A sense of exploration and isolation in a completely hostile enviroment, with upgrades gradually unlocking more and more of the world. That's what's great about the Metroid franchise, not the mythos.

No. Rumours have an UNKNOWN source, no one knows where they came from. You don't seem to understand the fundamental tenement of journalism of protecting identity of reliable sources. The article I cited is reliable as cited by gamesindustrybiz. This is no rumour.

"if it turns out the Wii U is more powerful then they give it credit for, they can just turn around and say "Looks like they upgraded it from when we saw it", and just shrug."

This is not me saving face, this is about making a sound assessment of this new platform. It would be GREAT if the Wii U was made more powerful but you cannot assume that is going to happen. It's spurious logic to assume this problem will be solved as nothing points to that yet. You are making the claim that something will happen without evidence and the burden of proof is on you.
What makes this unlike the Xbox 360 is the developers are not talking about a RAM shortage where it is easy to add more, they are explicit that the problem is limited shaders and you CANNOT simply add more of those. You'd need to scrap half the project and start again.

"The has been talk that there is more then one dev kit around,"

THAT is a rumour. What you say you are fed up with me doing. Got a source?

The feel of Other M is entirely the problem. I can deal with a bad plot, I can't deal with feeling like a constrained broken thought-slave of a woman who won't user her powers THAT SHE HAS INSTALLED IN HER SUIT without permission from her unworthy patriarch. The fun is ACTUALLY losing your powers and ACTUALLY fighting to get them back. You don't get the sense of exploring and isolation with the motley crew of men who seem far more capable than Samus often saving her because she is literately petrified of an enemy she defeated with ease before. That IS the mythos! Other M crapped all over it.

It's pure apologetics as Nintendo only has a few great franchises that make their consoles worth while and Other M spells a death knell for one of those franchises.

 

[Treblaine]

It's not a joke though. I'm pretty sure it's the best seeing as the xboxs is patchy, the PS3s is gone in favour of overpriced "Remasters" and the Wiis uses the gamecube chip. I'd call that a win for the wii. That helps justify some of the cost that you love to go on about. It's 2 consoles in 1!

If you would stop being so aggressive we could have a much better conversation.

You are untrustworthy in this debate as you are annoyed due to a minor opinion that people hold so you are likely to have massive confirmation bias, thus why you take an anonymous source as more credible than a known one.

The "joke" is from how the gamecube and Wii are not really distinct platforms by hardware, Wii is a mere iteration on the gamecube with a few tweaks and other trivial stuff bolted on, like SD card slot. The problem is acting like Wii is any huge leap from the gamecube when it isn't. It's not 2 consoles in one, it's ONE CONSOLE IN TWO! (Gamecube in a gamecube, gamecube also in Wii). Justifying the cost is crazy, gamecube sold for $99 and the near identical chipset Wii sold for $250. That cost cannot be rationally and honestly justified.

I am annoyed for your incessant circular logic, fallacies, even lies and denigration against me. Yet you say I am annoyed because people have merely a different opinion. Not because you ignore my arguments over and over and post trollish gifs of Nintendo making loads of money after what I just described as dishonest presentation.

Yet you come from "annoyed" to "conformational bias" to "no credibility/untrustworthy" which means I will LIE, not have a biased opinion. Lie.

And you think this is why I trust gamesindustrybiz and you don't, a reputable journalistic source that YOU don't trust yet it is myself who has the conformational bias and dishonesty?

Let's go over this ONE MORE TIME:

anonymous source in newspaper =/= unknown source

Gamesindustrybiz know who these developers are, they have only passed on the relevant information that they are WiiU developers. We don't need to know their names. Only Nintendo needs to know that so they can sue them for violating any likely non-disclosure-agreement (NDA) that let the cat out of the bag.

A known source can be less useful as they are bound by NDA to not say anything negative about the system they are working on. This is not a conformational bias, this is following the evidence. I'd love to see evidence that DIRECTLY and EXPLICITLY contradicts the gamesindustrybiz report, not vague encouraging comments from people who have an incentive to embellish. Concluding greatness from that, THAT is conformational bias.

 

[Davroth]

I'm fed up with you selling rumors as certainty. You know what? Maybe Nintendo doesn't know yet how powerful the system is going to be. The Xbox 360 received a last minute ram upgrade prior to launch after taking developer feedback into account. The has been talk that there is more then one dev kit around, too. Once they give us the specs, we will know. Not before.

That article convinces me of nothing, no matter how hard you want to push it. Because guess what? if it turns out the Wii U is more powerful then they give it credit for, they can just turn around and say "Looks like they upgraded it from when we saw it", and just shrug. It doesn't dent their reputation in the least. Every reputable newspaper has to make corrections once in a while. You know what a story like this does, though? Generate astounding amounts of hits.

I see you don't understand what makes a franchise like Metroid attractive. And I'm not really surprised. Nowadays it seems to be enough to slap a new coat of paint on a thrid/first person shooter and sell it as an exciting, new IP. If you take the Metroid series as a whole, the uniting aspect is not the story, it's the feel. And even if you change the gameplay, which they did with the Prime games, the feel still is the same. A sense of exploration and isolation in a completely hostile enviroment, with upgrades gradually unlocking more and more of the world. That's what's great about the Metroid franchise, not the mythos.

No. Rumours have an UNKNOWN source, no one knows where they came from. You don't seem to understand the fundamental tenement of journalism of protecting identity of reliable sources. The article I cited is reliable as cited by gamesindustrybiz. This is no rumour.

"if it turns out the Wii U is more powerful then they give it credit for, they can just turn around and say "Looks like they upgraded it from when we saw it", and just shrug."

This is not me saving face, this is about making a sound assessment of this new platform. It would be GREAT if the Wii U was made more powerful but you cannot assume that is going to happen. It's spurious logic to assume this problem will be solved as nothing points to that yet. You are making the claim that something will happen without evidence and the burden of proof is on you.
What makes this unlike the Xbox 360 is the developers are not talking about a RAM shortage where it is easy to add more, they are explicit that the problem is limited shaders and you CANNOT simply add more of those. You'd need to scrap half the project and start again.

"The has been talk that there is more then one dev kit around,"

THAT is a rumour. What you say you are fed up with me doing. Got a source?

The feel of Other M is entirely the problem. I can deal with a bad plot, I can't deal with feeling like a constrained broken thought-slave of a woman who won't user her powers THAT SHE HAS INSTALLED IN HER SUIT without permission from her unworthy patriarch. The fun is ACTUALLY losing your powers and ACTUALLY fighting to get them back. You don't get the sense of exploring and isolation with the motley crew of men who seem far more capable than Samus often saving her because she is literately petrified of an enemy she defeated with ease before. That IS the mythos! Other M crapped all over it.

It's pure apologetics as Nintendo only has a few great franchises that make their consoles worth while and Other M spells a death knell for one of those franchises.

I'm not fed up with rumors. I'm fed up with you reusing the same article over and over again. And if a console isn't in production yet, upgrading the CPU and GPU isn't that big of a deal, either.

And there is no evidence, that's why I'm so fed up with that article. Or more precisely, I'm fed up with you treating this article like it contains conclusive evidence. It doesn't.


As for Other M, let me address your points one by one. When Samus agreed to join the squad to find out what happened in the Bottleship, she agreed to follow Malkovich's command. Like a soldier. That also means that she has to wait for authorization before she can use her shit. You better believe that real soldiers need to be authorized to use their equipment. If anything, it makes her more honorable of a character then I'd have given her credit for, seeing how she disregards direct orders in Metroid Fusion. The only reason people harp on this is because she's female, and I'm sick and tired of hearing it. If she was male, people would most likely say "Give him a bloody medal for facing a superheated lava chamber without his heat protecting suit, even though it's a clear oversight by his superior not to clear usage of that upgrade."

The excuses why Samus looses her Suit upgrades are flimsy at best, with probably the only one I liked being the end of Metroid Prime 1, where the final boss rips her upgrades literally out of her (Fusion did it alright, too). At least this excuse has a narrative background.

That Ridley scene, ever heard of post traumatic stress disorder? She's beaten that monster to a bloody pulp how many times now? And still the monster from her childhood keeps tormenting her over and over. Again, what if it was a male galactic bounty hunter? I find it sickening how OF COURSE Samus is less of a badass now that she showed a surprising, unprecedented moment of weakness.

 

[Threeseventyfive]

Is anyone here concerned that we still don't have a price, release date or true specs?

Good things don't usually need to be hidden.