Wind Waker is Still the Best Zelda, and You're Surprised?
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Majoras Mask is the best Zelda game
Link was just in the wrong place at the wrong time...he was looking for Navi when this skull kid jumps him, takes his stuff and rides his horse away. Link chases him to get his stuff back and gets turned into a Deku Scrub. Now his motivation is to fix himself and the Happy Mask Salesman just so happens to know a way to do this but you have to do something for him, get Majoras Mask back to him.
The 3-day cycle was perfect as you can see how all of the characters in clock town live their lives over the final 3 days. They all have their own stories, problems and motivations and Link helps them not because he is asked to but because he wants to. Also Stone Tower Temple is amazing.
Link was just in the wrong place at the wrong time...he was looking for Navi when this skull kid jumps him, takes his stuff and rides his horse away. Link chases him to get his stuff back and gets turned into a Deku Scrub. Now his motivation is to fix himself and the Happy Mask Salesman just so happens to know a way to do this but you have to do something for him, get Majoras Mask back to him.
The 3-day cycle was perfect as you can see how all of the characters in clock town live their lives over the final 3 days. They all have their own stories, problems and motivations and Link helps them not because he is asked to but because he wants to. Also Stone Tower Temple is amazing.
I like the idea of Link having a learning curve when he gets new items and abilities instead of mastering everything instantly. Though like all games, you can't have the player character fumbling around with everything he/she is not used to, it would break the flow of the game.
Yatzee's idea for a Zelda game is...interesting to put it best. His weird ideas for games are always fun to read, but I'm not sure if they would be fun to play. XD
Yatzee's idea for a Zelda game is...interesting to put it best. His weird ideas for games are always fun to read, but I'm not sure if they would be fun to play. XD
Wow, it's like you didn't read the article at all! Quite fascinating. Here we are discussing whether or not Zelda games should be judged on their adherence to the formula and you come in with "Wind Waker isn't the best because it doesn't have the best [Zelda element 1], or [Zelda element 2], or [Zelda element 3]."Full Metal Bolshevik said:
Anyway, as others have said, Majora's Mask is the best Zelda game.
To be fair, he's not judging the game by how many Traditional Zelda Elements? the game has, but by how well it succeeds at them. I won't judge a Zelda game for breaking formula, but if it's going to do things other Zelda games do, it had damn well better be good at it.NoeL said:
I mean, I disagree with him anyway, especially regarding dungeons (how anyone can prefer OoT's block-pushing puzzles to WW is beyond me), but I don't think it's fair to say his reasoning was about adherence to the formula, but about attempting to adhere and making mistakes.
P.S. Thanks
Pretty much everything you said here is not objective. I thought the majority of Skyward Swords dungeons were mundane, and I thought the combat was awful. I'm not opposed to the concept of motion controls, but in my opinion it was very clunky. Having to fist pump to bring up your shield and having stabbing never worked in combat for me (out of combat I was able to do stabbing everytime, in combat when i did the exact same movement he would do something else) were two major problems. SS and Spirit tracks are my least favorite, but all of this is just opinions. There is no objectively best zelda just everyones subjective opinion of which one they like the best.Full Metal Bolshevik said:
I gotta say Majoras Mask and Minish Cap are my favorite. Need to replay a few though, including Wind Waker.
I like both types of stories and I think both can definetaly work if done right. What I like about stories where the hero is just an ordinary person, is the idea of acquiring one's skills through hard work and determination. Not because it was foretold by some prophecy.
At the risk of being unhip, I'm one of those crusty old farts who will resort to the more-dungeons argument, frankly because I find all of the item-collecting and exploring elements in Wind Waker brain-deadening-ly boring and devoid of challenge. As I stated on the original video's thread, what sunk the experience of Wind Waker (as well as Twilight Princess) for me was the idea that Nintendo was, more recklessly than ever, just dumbing things down too much, to a point that the gaming experience drew ever closer to the dull, consequence-free, action-RPG territory of something like a Tales game (on normal difficulty, to be accurate). As much as I enjoy those kinds of games in and of themselves, I enjoyed Link's Awakening and both N64 titles more because they had solid base-line difficulties mixed in with the usual puzzle-solving and exploring. Wind Waker, by comparison, was too padded-out, leaving me with a mixed reaction. In ranking Zelda games, I would put Majora's Mask, Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, and Minish Cap above this game, begrudgingly so because the Wind Waker's graphic design and sound is remarkable.
I'm a huge Zelda fan, and even I have to admit there's great potential in a sequel where the gods are conspiring to keep the conflict going. If I remember correctly, each third of the Triforce comes from one of the goddesses, so what if they're deliberately allowing Ganondorf to have the Triforce of Power?
I mean, I get Yatzee's point but I always felt like the Zelda games did a good job of being pretty different.
Not bucking the status quo just doesnt fit the series for me. I feel like each 3D zelda game is designed around exploring different themes.
You have impending doom and the weight of time in Majora's Mask, represented with the literal moon on your shoulders.
You have exploration and the thrill of discovery in Wind Waker, brought home by being a care free child making many small discoveries as opposed to a few huge dungeons.
Then, somewhat problematically, you have loneliness and loss in Twilight Princess. The darker theme made the game seem up its own ass story wise, but the main villain Zant is a refreshing take, even if it does take the whole game to realize why, and the game reserves time for some fun interactions and weird characters.
In fact, by Yahtzee's logic, he should have Skyward Sword, it being a return to the more lighthearted freindship and shenanigans of Wind Waker. Well he would, if it werent for awful controls and restrictive environments.
I feel like Yahtzee got Link's personality confused with the personality of the whole game. In Wind Waker, Link is a character who emotes, making him likable but making him less of a blank slate. Maybe the other Links werent made to be characters but rather blank slates for the player. Just a thought.
Not bucking the status quo just doesnt fit the series for me. I feel like each 3D zelda game is designed around exploring different themes.
You have impending doom and the weight of time in Majora's Mask, represented with the literal moon on your shoulders.
You have exploration and the thrill of discovery in Wind Waker, brought home by being a care free child making many small discoveries as opposed to a few huge dungeons.
Then, somewhat problematically, you have loneliness and loss in Twilight Princess. The darker theme made the game seem up its own ass story wise, but the main villain Zant is a refreshing take, even if it does take the whole game to realize why, and the game reserves time for some fun interactions and weird characters.
In fact, by Yahtzee's logic, he should have Skyward Sword, it being a return to the more lighthearted freindship and shenanigans of Wind Waker. Well he would, if it werent for awful controls and restrictive environments.
I feel like Yahtzee got Link's personality confused with the personality of the whole game. In Wind Waker, Link is a character who emotes, making him likable but making him less of a blank slate. Maybe the other Links werent made to be characters but rather blank slates for the player. Just a thought.
My favorite is still A Link to the Past though I missed out on Wind Waker. I still regret my initial reaction to it's art style. At the time I remember a tech demo of an adult Link fighting Gannon and was hyped for that style of Zelda to be released.
... I wish I could kick my teen self for not seeing the beauty in Wind Waker.
... I wish I could kick my teen self for not seeing the beauty in Wind Waker.
I don't think Din, Nayru, and Farore are doing aught to keep the cycle going. Far as I know from Ocarina and Skyward Sword, they just made the world, left the Triforce behind, and put a restriction on it so that gods can't use it.
If anyone is keeping the cycle going it is, or rather was, Demise. He cursed those with the "blood of [Zelda] and the spirit of the hero" to fight incarnations of his hatred for eternity with his dying breath, so that's why we keep getting our Ganondorfs and Vaatis and Maladuses. Or, more specifically, why the universe seems o always wrangle a Link into fighting them.
By the way, I agree that Link is the most expressive he's ever been in Wind Waker. I'd put Skyward Sword link as a rather distant second, and all he others tied for an even more distant third.
If anyone is keeping the cycle going it is, or rather was, Demise. He cursed those with the "blood of [Zelda] and the spirit of the hero" to fight incarnations of his hatred for eternity with his dying breath, so that's why we keep getting our Ganondorfs and Vaatis and Maladuses. Or, more specifically, why the universe seems o always wrangle a Link into fighting them.
By the way, I agree that Link is the most expressive he's ever been in Wind Waker. I'd put Skyward Sword link as a rather distant second, and all he others tied for an even more distant third.
I still hold the opinion of Majora's Mask being the best Legend of Zelda game, but I will admit that Wind Waker is still very good.
I could actually really get behind something like this. Like, Link's washed up, and not nearly as endearing as when he was younger, and just before the fact that he saved the world is leaving the peoples' minds to be replaced by what a bland guy he is when there's no evil to slay, shit suddenly gets real again, and a man who's all but forgotten how to be a hero is now once again the world's only hope.ImBigBob said:
Even when he finally succeeds he's still a bit awkward and washed up, but darn it, you've learned to like him because he's actually a pretty decent guy. And that tired, stubble-ridden half-smile has grown on you.
Eh, problem is that Gannondorf has always has been a power hungry man bent on world domination. Even if he was just an unwitting pawn in some grand scheme his ambitions and choices are still all his own, and all the goddess did was provide him the means/tools. He may be a victim, but not exactly a sympathetic one. Sure he and Link may team up to defeat the higher power in charge, but once that's finished they'll just go back to fighting each other, and the only difference is that it'll be for the last time since there is no one around to start the cycle anew.Veylon said:
Hmm, I like the fate plotline. Maybe Link runs away from Kakariko village to escape his fate, and on the way to Hyrule Castle he gets into an altercation with an old man and kills him. Then it turns out it was the king, and the people make him the ruler, forcing him to marry the kings daughter, Zelda. Then Link discovers that he isn't really a kakariko child, the king was his father, and he's married to his own sister! Then everyone dies.
Or, conversely, Link and Ganon storm the gates of video game heaven only to find a kind elderly Japanese man tending his garden...
Or, conversely, Link and Ganon storm the gates of video game heaven only to find a kind elderly Japanese man tending his garden...
Look, it doesn't have to be a rerun of OoT for it to be great. Not at all. The thing with that game is that it's really turning into a period piece of sorts. A lot of people say the game doesn't play well nowadays. Well, of COURSE it doesn't. It was made like, what, 10+ years ago? Yeah. Kinda old, guys. So before you start dissing the game, remember the time in which it was made: when Perfect Dark was once thought of as the high point of console graphics.