Wind Waker is Still the Best Zelda, and You're Surprised?

[Zeraki]

My favorite is still A Link to the Past though I missed out on Wind Waker. I still regret my initial reaction to it's art style. At the time I remember a tech demo of an adult Link fighting Gannon and was hyped for that style of Zelda to be released.


... I wish I could kick my teen self for not seeing the beauty in Wind Waker.

I was the same way back then(I was about 14). I remember how hyped I was about that tech demo, so when they announced Wind Waker I(like many others) responded with a collective "what the hell, this is horrible!". Wind Waker was kind of the black sheep of the series when it first came out.

Fast forward a decade and that tech demo looks hideous, while Wind Waker(especially the HD version) looks absolutely gorgeous. Time makes fools of us all.

 

[xPixelatedx]

You know, people can like whatever it is they like, and it's pretty cool everyone's favorite Zelda is usually so varied. But I got to say, I really hate the "we must re-invent the pizza every time we eat one" attitude. I always thought it was a dumb argument to make in defense of Wind Waker, or anything else formulaic that people happen to like. Something being different or breaking formula doesn't automatically make it better. Probably explains why I personally wasn't impressed at all with Wind Waker. I was one of the few people actually excited for it, originally. I liked the art style, and gave it a fair shot. I thought it was ok, but aside from the saving grace of simply being different, it was just pretty boring to me. The whole game seemed like nothing but a bunch of fetch quests. I just wanted to explore, go in dungeons, find secrets... all with interacting with as few people as possible. Thank god for Twilight Princess, aside from laughably easy combat, that game was a step up in every way. Only the Gannon fight at the end of Wind Waker sparked any kind of fulfillment in me after the experience was over.

If removing all the particular things about Zelda is now the only way to make "a good Zelda" to you, then chances are you just didn't like Zelda to begin with. That last statement isn't directed at Yahtzee, either, but everyone i usually discuss this with.

 

[xdiesp]

Mario Galaxy 2 running out of ideas? A game which every level is an innovative, and incredibly fun breakthrough can hardly be like that. If only Yahtzee didn't put down games after half an hour when he's in a bad mood.

 

[Jezzy54]

I'm a huge Zelda fan, and even I have to admit there's great potential in a sequel where the gods are conspiring to keep the conflict going. If I remember correctly, each third of the Triforce comes from one of the goddesses, so what if they're deliberately allowing Ganondorf to have the Triforce of Power?

In some sense, then, Gannondorf is a victim, a dupe. He's never going to win, but is just being strung along. Maybe what's needed is a Link empathic enough to want to save Gannondorf rather than destroy him.

Eh, problem is that Gannondorf has always has been a power hungry man bent on world domination. Even if he was just an unwitting pawn in some grand scheme his ambitions and choices are still all his own, and all the goddess did was provide him the means/tools. He may be a victim, but not exactly a sympathetic one. Sure he and Link may team up to defeat the higher power in charge, but once that's finished they'll just go back to fighting each other, and the only difference is that it'll be for the last time since there is no one around to start the cycle anew.

I was thinking more along those lines, that Ganondorf is still the character we know but the goddesses are complicit in his crimes. But you could compromise and reveal that the harsh environment the Gerudos endured, that made Ganondorf want to conquer the more stable Hyrule, was planned by the goddesses to make Ganondorf a threat.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Did someone mention okami?? That was truly one of the greatest surprises that graced my wii. The passion for zelda was oozing out of every corner of that game, but more authentic with the Japanese print style and lore. Thankfully you never needed to really dodge in any specific direction though, considering the numchuck like to decide what direction you were really flailing in. Part of me wants a sequel, but the other part disbelieves that any attempt could beat the original...so another remake maybe? Ugh, i dunno.

Both the mario galaxies were incredibly addictive...Im one hell of a cynical bastard but those games just show how little story needs to be told when you're flying around everywhere enjoying every seemingly pointless activity in lands that work best when they make no sense whatsoever. Makes you feel like a platforming god when you get those really challenging levels and coins.
Though, digressing, I remember not liking Majoras mask as much as OOT due to it undoing all my hard work to make areas of the map all nice and flowery when i had to go back in time before the world ends. Looking back though, that seems like a good compromise and system. Damn my impatient child-brain! And am i the only person that didn't have any trouble with the skyward sword motion detection? My flat mate was a completely incompetent ballsack at it and only blamed the controller then gave up and never played it again. However, i got through game with no trouble. Apart a certain boss that refused to give any hint as to whether i was doing anything at all to hinder him.

Lastly, i for one do like big boss battles. Something where use of intelligence and bravery can help you take down some mammoth creations. It would be sad to have no more of those from zelda titles. Was playing mass effect 3 recently, not sure if anyone remembers a mission inside a geth computer program...but all through that stage i was expecting some nasty boss to rearrange your anatomy and mental state at any point through there. There was tension in my mind, but then as i left the level i came to the slow realisation that there will be no scary alien virus boss battle to brown the trousers. Havent had an anti-climax like that since the last visit to the clinic

 

[kevboard]

Did someone mention okami?? That was truly one of the greatest surprises that graced my wii.

the original PS2 version was better tho... they somehow totally fucked up the drawing controls on the Wii... but its still amazing ^_^

 

[Dragonbums]

Did someone mention okami?? That was truly one of the greatest surprises that graced my wii.

the original PS2 version was better tho... they somehow totally fucked up the drawing controls on the Wii... but its still amazing ^_^

I never had problems with the brush controls on the Wii.

Unless of course your talking about slashing. Which in that case you have to hold down the "B" (or was it L it's been a while) to automatically make it straight.

 

[Enlong]

I second the usability if the Wii drawing controls.

Yeah, it's got its share of problems, but it really does work soundly most of the time.

But you know what we need? Okami HD U. What better way to do the celestial brush than with a drawing tablet?

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Did someone mention okami?? That was truly one of the greatest surprises that graced my wii.

the original PS2 version was better tho... they somehow totally fucked up the drawing controls on the Wii... but its still amazing ^_^

Never got to compare the PS2 version due to my only finding the game when i only had a wii console. Heard they had a filter on the PS2 version too which they took off for the wii. The only control complaint i have is still that dodge move, which works fine...but not necessarily in the direction you thought you wanted

 

[Krantos]

I'm still holding out hope for this:

http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/47724463171/inspired-by-anita-sarkeesians-video-game-tropes

The characters seem more interesting, the gameplay more fluid, the magic focus would be a nice change, the world seems more interesting, esspecially politically and it even has a female protagonist, because why not at that point?

Holy shit. A Zelda Game where Zelda is actually the protagonist? Would Buy!

Seriously, this needs to happen. Nintendo, I'll do it. I will buy a Wii U if you just make this damn game already. DOOO IIIT!

 

[Dak_N_Jaxter]

Reading this is reminding me a lot of Poacher.
Derek was a good sport that 'literally' fell into the role of hero. Well, Gamey fell anyway.
And I finally got round to beating that damned all-controlling deity the other day.
A check point would have been nice... then again the adrenaline rush from the sheer frustration indused focus was kind of cool.

This may all seem a tad off-topic, but I've never actually played a Zelda game.
My room-mate has a copy. Maybe I should.

 

[Micalas]

Wow...I really like the idea of a game that explores Link and Ganondorf having an existential crisis.

And who doesn't particularly like the princess much because she seems to have a rather generic personality.

As for this, I think it would be more interesting if it was because he was morally opposed to the monarchy.

 

[marioandsonic]

No love for the original Link to the Past in this thread? For shame...

And even though it's hard as fuck and considered the black sheep of the franchise, I really enjoyed Zelda 2 on the NES.

 

[retrochimp]

That wish of yours, Mr. Yahtzee, is basically the plot of "The Bard's Tale" for Xbox, Gamecube, and PS2. Cary Elwes plays The Bard who is constantly being heralded as The Chosen One and he always refuses to be addressed as such. Along the path, you encounter other Chosen Ones who are each slain in short order followed by a trio of halflings spontaneously entering and engaging in a follow-the-bouncing-ball sing-along about how stupid that person was to think they were the Chosen One. And then the plot continues. It's a pretty good game overall. Not amazing, but well-constructed.

 

[ImBigBob]

When I heard about Link to the Past 2, my first thought was "This should have been about a middle-aged Link who's out of shape and jumping at the opportunity to reclaim his former glory."

I could actually really get behind something like this. Like, Link's washed up, and not nearly as endearing as when he was younger, and just before the fact that he saved the world is leaving the peoples' minds to be replaced by what a bland guy he is when there's no evil to slay, shit suddenly gets real again, and a man who's all but forgotten how to be a hero is now once again the world's only hope.

Even when he finally succeeds he's still a bit awkward and washed up, but darn it, you've learned to like him because he's actually a pretty decent guy. And that tired, stubble-ridden half-smile has grown on you.

This guy gets it.

 

[Ghored]

we have always been at war with Eurasia, blah de blah de blah.

Fixed that one for you.


Also, that Zelda pitch Yahtzee mentioned sorta sounds like The Stanley Parable, or The Zelda Parable anyways.
"When Link came to set of two open doors, he entered the door on his left and continued on his quest to save Hyrule."

Y'know?

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

I like either Wind Waker or Majora's Mask as my favorite Zelda game depending on my mood, but I like them both the best for the same reasons - the worlds are large and open with side-quests abound and has characters far more memorable for it. Wind Waker also grants far more freedom than any other Zelda game has before, and like Skyrim, I spent ages wandering around and exploring while ignoring the main plot.

Zelda really has become a bit too formulaic for it's own good and each game is more predicatble than the last. The trouble with this is that ever since Ocarina of Time, people felt the Zelda world needed to be this 'dark', 'gritty' world; hence why a lot of people didn't appreciate Wind Waker at the time and why so many people loved Twilight Princess despite it being a fairly boring game. Until Nintendo released their 'timeline' (which Zelda's own fanbase argued was flawed), it was mostly fan conjecture tying the series together. I always looked at the games as being set in their own universes unless they directly addressed a past game, so I think the epitome of Zelda being up it's own ass came with the advent of Skyward Sword - a prequel to a series that didn't need a prequel or 'origins' story.

Frankly, I'd like to see the next Zelda game star the titular character. I know, she's already had her own games, but those games are terrible. I mean that I want to see something on the level of Skyward Sword's production. Maybe Link's in the game, but you actually control Zelda. It'd be a good way to shake up the series, maybe draw a new audience, and they could put off changing their gameplay formula for one more installment, because playing as Zelda would be different enough for most people to not notice that you're still playing the same Zelda game you've been playing only with whatever gimmick Nintendo has installed in their new system.

 

[Draconalis]

I wonder if Yahtzee ever played Link's Awakening for the GameBoy way back when....?

That game had such a good story with nice twist right near the end, it makes you wonder after you beat the final boss if you're the "hero" or the "villian". I'd really like to hear his perspective on that.

I had the same thought, so I messaged him about it. I'll let you know if he answers. (I.E. You'll never hear from me again)

But yeah... Link's Awakening is by far, my favorite Zelda game. The plot was surprising deep, especially when you consider it was basically a fan project, put together after hours simply from a love of making games.

OT: I couldn't get passed the cell shading art style of Windwaker, after teasing us with what the next Zelda would look like for so long, so I never gave the game a try.

I still have no desire to play it, either.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I don't fully understand all of the Twilight Princess hate of late. :-/ That game was awesome.

I never played Wind Waker on the Gamecube so I'm especially excited for when I get an opportunity to try the HD version.