Windows 8, Tablets Blamed For Record Drop In PC Sales

Da Orky Man

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Apr 24, 2011
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Kumagawa Misogi said:
Alfador_VII said:
The said:
Yikes. Is Windows 8 really that bad? I may be getting a gaming PC this summer, so I don't know whether or not to just go for Windows 7. Suggestions?
I just bought a new laptop myself, and specified Windows 7, never considered the alternative.

And no Windows 8 isn't actually BAD, and may be very stable, it just offers no benefit for a conventional PC, has worse games compatibility than Win7, and has a whole new interface to learn, which is designed for touchscreens and poorly optimised for Mouse and Keyboard.

Basically if you have the choice, get Windows 7

"has worse games compatibility than Win7"

This is a lie stop spreading FUD, Windows 8 is fine it's a more stable windows 7 with a homescreen and no start button.
I can quite safely, truthfully and unequivocally say no, Windows 8 is currently less compatible than Windows 7. Not by much, but it certainly has problems that 7 does not.
I bought a brand new Windows 8 laptop in January in preparation for uni. It isn't quite as bad as many make it out to be, but its not good. I'm currently typing this on Ubuntu 12.10 because 8, for some reason I can't understand, occasionally decides to stop every website except for Google search from working. No clue why, it just does, and it takes a good day or so to fix itself.
 
Feb 24, 2011
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Entitled said:
I'm wondering if the PC as a gaming platform will survive the loss of the PC as the default home computing system.

It would be interesting to see what the old desktop machine+monitor+keyboard+mouse setup would evolve into, if only a few million gamers would keep them out of tradition.
with the rise of kickstarter, i think that the PC as a gaming platform will do the exact oposite.
 

Entitled

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Aug 27, 2012
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Laurents van Cauwenberghe said:
Entitled said:
I'm wondering if the PC as a gaming platform will survive the loss of the PC as the default home computing system.

It would be interesting to see what the old desktop machine+monitor+keyboard+mouse setup would evolve into, if only a few million gamers would keep them out of tradition.
with the rise of kickstarter, i think that the PC as a gaming platform will do the exact oposite.
The opposite of... what?
Of losing it's leading position? Of surviving? Of evolving? Of tradition?
 

Rastien

Pro Misinformationalist
Jun 22, 2011
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xXSnowyXx said:
The said:
Yikes. Is Windows 8 really that bad? I may be getting a gaming PC this summer, so I don't know whether or not to just go for Windows 7. Suggestions?
No...in fact it's one of the best Windows releases I've ever encountered (at least from a stability standpoint). People are just mad that it has a new start menu and don't want to adjust to something slightly different (even though it's easily replaceable).
Da Orky Man said:
Kumagawa Misogi said:
Alfador_VII said:
The said:
Yikes. Is Windows 8 really that bad? I may be getting a gaming PC this summer, so I don't know whether or not to just go for Windows 7. Suggestions?
I just bought a new laptop myself, and specified Windows 7, never considered the alternative.

And no Windows 8 isn't actually BAD, and may be very stable, it just offers no benefit for a conventional PC, has worse games compatibility than Win7, and has a whole new interface to learn, which is designed for touchscreens and poorly optimised for Mouse and Keyboard.

Basically if you have the choice, get Windows 7

"has worse games compatibility than Win7"

This is a lie stop spreading FUD, Windows 8 is fine it's a more stable windows 7 with a homescreen and no start button.
Windows 8 upon release was incompatible with games for windows live... you know GFWL Micro$oft$ own bloody DRM software didn't work with windows 8!

I think this may have been patched now but to get a friends GFWL working with street fighter 4 or sfxt we had to download a 3rd party home brew patch.

So I kinda disagree with your statement.

Personally I won't be touching windows 8 until I'm forced to the only reason I jumped from windows xp to 7 was I needed a higher version of direct X to run Bioshock 2
 

Rastien

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Jun 22, 2011
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Monsterfurby said:
Kumagawa Misogi said:
"has worse games compatibility than Win7"

This is a lie stop spreading FUD, Windows 8 is fine it's a more stable windows 7 with a homescreen and no start button.
Take it from a Win8 user who is all too happy to still have a Win7 desktop PC around: It doesn't even run Skype (which is OWNED AND PUBLISHED by Microsoft now) properly. Several games do not fare much better.
This I think has been patched now but yeah another bloody issue me and my friend encountered, really not good at all :(
 

SnowyGamester

Tech Head
Oct 18, 2009
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Rastien said:
Windows 8 upon release was incompatible with games for windows live... you know GFWL Micro$oft$ own bloody DRM software didn't work with windows 8!
Since when did GFWL work with anything though?
 

Rastien

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Jun 22, 2011
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xXSnowyXx said:
Rastien said:
Windows 8 upon release was incompatible with games for windows live... you know GFWL Micro$oft$ own bloody DRM software didn't work with windows 8!
Since when did GFWL work with anything though?
Havn't had any issues with windows 7 personally i'll admit it's a crap piece of DRM takes ages to update but it works on windows 7, it just flat our errored on windows 8.

Whilst I admit it's crap no 2 ways about it, should still work on windows 8 if it works on 7 considering it's M$'s own software.
 

Dryk

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Dec 4, 2011
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Whoracle said:
And yes, you can circumvent ALL problems with win8 with the odd extra tool and such. But to repeat the gripes people always have with Linux in such discussions: Why should I have to? If I have to modify the system heavily just to get it working like the predecessor (sp?) was, then why upgrade?
Well I guess the short answer is because Microsoft decided to tell you what you're going to like, and be damned if they let you customise it natively. Surprising no-one the attitude seems to be backfiring.
 

nexus

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May 30, 2012
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There is nothing wrong with Windows 8.

It's optimized very well, and to me that's all that matters. The performance is way ahead of my experience with 7. Otherwise, very little has changed for the average user from 7, except for the Tablet functionality, which I don't need or use -- but the Start screen has grown on me.

I have had literally zero issues with 8 -- that I didn't have with 7 or Vista. No compatibility issues.. everything that I want to run, runs fine. You don't even have to use the "Tablet UI" at any point, if you don't want to. But don't let that get in between you and your tirade...

Also, it only cost ~$40 for a full install.. being the cheapest Windows OS I've ever seen.
 
Feb 24, 2011
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Entitled said:
Laurents van Cauwenberghe said:
Entitled said:
I'm wondering if the PC as a gaming platform will survive the loss of the PC as the default home computing system.

It would be interesting to see what the old desktop machine+monitor+keyboard+mouse setup would evolve into, if only a few million gamers would keep them out of tradition.
with the rise of kickstarter, i think that the PC as a gaming platform will do the exact oposite.
The opposite of... what?
Of losing it's leading position? Of surviving? Of evolving? Of tradition?
the oposite of what you said, derp
 

SnowyGamester

Tech Head
Oct 18, 2009
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Rastien said:
Havn't had any issues with windows 7 personally i'll admit it's a crap piece of DRM takes ages to update but it works on windows 7, it just flat our errored on windows 8.
Eh...I've had nothing but trouble with it in the past, though I haven't used it since the early days.

My friend had to use it recently to replay bioshock 2 on Windows 8 and it worked fine afaik, though it didn't auto install like it should've (probs old broken version included in the redists). Really there aren't that many complaints to be had when it comes to compatibility.
 

Entitled

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Aug 27, 2012
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Laurents van Cauwenberghe said:
Entitled said:
Of losing it's leading position? Of surviving? Of evolving? Of tradition?
the oposite of what you said, derp
But I didn't say any definitive statement, just listed alternative options! I wondered whether the PC platform will disappear, or it will remain a niche for gamers, or evolve into something new.

What is the "opposite" of that, that Kickstarter will cause?
 

flarty

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Apr 26, 2012
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Kumagawa Misogi said:
Just a question but how many people on the escapist actually own an OEM PC? because to be honest everyone I know either assembles their own or gets one from a one-man-shop which wouldn't be on sales figures anyway. Hell I've never bought a PC from an OEM even my grandparents always bought from those little computer shops that self assembled.

I know that it's anecdotal but I grew up always hearing about how terrible OEM customer service was and how much a rip-off they are. So really outside of business sales I wonder how much HP or Dell sales really mean inregards to PC gaming.
I've been saying this for a longtime. i would really love to see the sales figures of components in comparison to complete builds. It would give a clearer picture of what is happening in the PC market.
 

Hargrimm

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Jan 1, 2010
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The said:
Yikes. Is Windows 8 really that bad? I may be getting a gaming PC this summer, so I don't know whether or not to just go for Windows 7. Suggestions?
I suggest you go with Windows 7.

As for Windows 8, well... here are two videos explaining some it's problems:
 

faefrost

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Jun 2, 2010
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nexus said:
There is nothing wrong with Windows 8.

It's optimized very well, and to me that's all that matters.
The performance is way ahead of my experience with 7. Otherwise, very little has changed for the average user from 7, except for the Tablet functionality, which I don't need or use -- but the Start screen has grown on me.

I have had literally zero issues with 8 -- that I didn't have with 7 or Vista. No compatibility issues.. everything that I want to run, runs fine. You don't even have to use the "Tablet UI" at any point, if you don't want to. But don't let that get in between you and your tirade...

Also, it only cost ~$40 for a full install.. being the cheapest Windows OS I've ever seen.
Well good for you. I'm glad your happy with it. But here's the thing. Gamer's don't really drive OS or PC sales all that much. We are what is best considered a somewhat profitable "niche". There are two groups that actually drive PC sales numbers. "Standard retail consumers", people like your Mom and Dad. People who use a basic off the shelf PC for e-mail, facebook etc. A not very demanding group. And "Business Users" Those who use their PC's in a business production environment be it large or small.

For the Retail Consumers, Windows 8 is a complete failure, because those users are quite simply gravitating towards smart phones and tablets. Those that do encounter Win 8 tend to hate it. This is a group that likes a certain degree of familiarity from their Operating System. When forced to a decision point with Win 8, they are far more likely to simply get a Mac or switch to a Tablet. There was a great Youtube video during Windows 8's beta, where a beta tester sat his father down in front of the new OS. It was one of the most telling analysis's of the systems flaws, very simply presented. MS failed to pay attention.

For the Business users it is as I said earlier, a true abomination. Business environments do not care about "optimization", at least not the same way that you do. For them optimization is reflected in ease of navigation or use, minimizing training and support costs, and overall costs of ownership. Right now the costs of ownership of Win 8 for a business are truly obscene. With no perceivable production benefit to actually switching to the new OS. Small businesses have been particularly burned by MS's business practice decisions with Win 8. Often in a business of less than 20 employees a down or failed computer is something that must be dealt with very quickly. In the past they could easily simply dispatch someone down to the local Office Supply Store or Best Buy to grab an off the shelf PC to meat their needs. With Win 8 they cannot do this. The retailers are restricted to Win 8 only, no options. So the small business has to endure days of downtime waiting on a custom built/business class system from Dell or HP, etc. It's had a few of my small clients switching to Mac's.
 

PuckFuppet

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Jan 10, 2009
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This has probably been said:

These figures represent "unit" sales, a unit is considered to be a complete device (monitor included) with an OS installed etc. This isn't representative of component sales, which include devices with no OS installed or those that ship sans a monitor.
 

Zipa

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Dec 19, 2010
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lithium.jelly said:
Zipa said:
Oh and for those that don't like the start screen there are add ons out there that restore the traditional task bar and start button and disable native metro boot. (I use Start8 from Stardock but there are others to)
I don't like the Start screen but I can deal. What really bugs me about TIFKAM (The Interface Formerly Known As Metro) on a desktop device are the frickin' "Hot Corners" and the godawful "Charms Bar". Plus the weird disconnect between Control Panel for the desktop interface and the equivalent for TIFKAM. Why are some items available only on one or the other, but there is no single location from which I can control everything? Terrible, terrible design. And apart from all the functional issues there is the simple fact that it is just so ugly.

Do you have fixes for those problems? Something that replaces the hot corners with plain old clickable icons and fucks off that stupid "Charms Bar" entirely, putting its contents back into sensible places?
Start8 by Stardock solves the problem, the charms bar and hot corners are there but you can just ignore them, it re adds the search bar and old start button and menu so you can just type Control panel into search or hit the windows button and go straight to control panel as per win 7 .

It also disables Metro booting, it boots straight to desktop so its well worth the 5 bucks.


This is what my desktop and start menu look like.
 

Elvis Starburst

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Aug 9, 2011
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Seeing as Windows 8 is hardly a good choice for desktop computers, and people are making downloads like Start8 to work around the Windows 8 OS to keep it like 7, I think that shows a massive problem here. Windows 8 is meant for tablets, it's not very good for PCs, so I can understand the decline
 

Groenteman

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Ah Windows 8, the graphicaly dressed down windows 7 which sticks tablet in your face. Cuz tabluts arr teh fjusure! Least it runs a bit faster. Leats its not VISTA. Realy, the tablet stuff is annoying, but nowhere near as much of a gawddamn... (words) vista.

Seems like a great time for smaller OEMs to make a killing by offering Win7 machines though.

And I dont realy buy it that Win8 is causing that kind of shift in sales. Its likely the casual computer using consumers switching over to something easier to understand and carry around, as well as the desktop computers now going obsolete actualy still being functional with todays software.

It will probably stabalize in a while. Tablets are fun playthings, can do basic computery stuff, BUT are still complete rubbish when it comes to input speed and accuracy, typing and working with anything that needs to display large amouths of information at the time (excel, adobe acrobat, photoshop, whatnot). Not to mention the games on them are... well lets just say inherentely pretty limited.

There will be a pretty solid market laptops and desktop computers untill we invent telepathic interface.

faefrost said:
Small businesses have been particularly burned by MS's business practice decisions with Win 8. Often in a business of less than 20 employees a down or failed computer is something that must be dealt with very quickly. In the past they could easily simply dispatch someone down to the local Office Supply Store or Best Buy to grab an off the shelf PC to meat their needs. With Win 8 they cannot do this. The retailers are restricted to Win 8 only, no options. So the small business has to endure days of downtime waiting on a custom built/business class system from Dell or HP, etc. It's had a few of my small clients switching to Mac's.
And this is why we keep a number of our decomissioned XP machines around. Realy, dont throw all of those out.