Woman robs man on side of road, Two "samaritans" help her because she's a woman

targren

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Eri said:
Erana said:
And how do you know that? Can you read minds from a distance through time?
Pretty simple really. Because as I've said multiple times now, they immediately restrained the man. No questions, no nothing, just immediately jumped him.
Pretty much this. The only other option is that they did know what was going on, and decided the help the thief because she's a thief.

I swear, the equivocation in this place is really ridiculous sometimes. It's like that thing where the drunk women were bullying that disabled guy last month.
 

-|-

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Aug 28, 2010
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Moonlight Butterfly said:
-|- said:
Erm

Even if the majority of people who buy Borderlands 2 are male that IN NO WAY proves that their significant other is bad at video games.

That is the worst piece of reasoning I have ever seen.

In other news I practice reflex tests online to improve my skill at fps games. I got 98% yesterday. Woo.
Another one who missed the point. Did you even read the rest of that post (although I'm not sure which post you are quoting - so maybe you didn't spot my explanation, if so please go and read it)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.385877-Woman-robs-man-on-side-of-road-Two-samaritans-help-her-because-shes-a-woman?page=8#15361636
 

Sneezeburger

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Its probably sexist but i think if i saw a man assaulting a woman i wouldn't think 'i wonder who REALLY started this' i'd rush to help her. That said, i'd do the same if it was the other way around. I've known of drunk girls beating 7 bells of shit out of guys before.
 

DementedSheep

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Blablahb said:
Pyramid Head said:
Um... who started WHAT? It looked like a man was assaulting someone who was trying to flee, not an open fist fight. If you want to argue anti-male discrimination you need to find a better article, this happened very fast and it looked like the victim was the aggressor.
Then still, if the woman runs off while holding the thing the two were fighting over, something's not right. At that point they should've realised their mistake.
Well he did chase after her but didn't manage to catch up so perhaps they did let him go. Regardless this probably happened in a few minutes; not long enough for them revaluate what going on. They were likely still reacting based on the first impression of the conflict. Sexism may have had something to do with it (the whole woman are weak and gentle and guys are strong and aggressive thing) but you don?t know that it did and it probably wasn?t the main reason.

I?ve seen this happen with two guys as well. There was one nasty case where a guy had shit beaten out of him by a group of people because they thought he was the thief when he was actually the victim and the theif was male aswell. Mix ups like this seem to common. It's why you should not rush in and let the police handle it if possible.
 

Madgamer13

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Eri said:
...Snip!...
Greets!

This is an awfully long thread, I didn't read much beyond the first page, so apologies for skimming. This is a direct response to your OP, Eri.

I think you are reading too far into the set of circumstances that allowed this man to be robbed. Sexism never matters in the face of criminality, regardless of ability of any side. What matters in crime is what you can do and everyone is able to do something. The man who was being robbed in your report had the strength to struggle with the robber, who was eagar to get away.

The robber had the benefit of making herself look weaker, which would be easy to do when engaged in a struggle with a drunken male speaking limited english. This doesn't mean that her gender would give the impression that she was a victim, but that the actual victim was struggling with her intentionally, in order to stop her from fleeing. To onlookers, this would appear that she was the victim, since she was trying to flee while he was seemingly intending harm.

The actuality of the circumstances surrounding this doesn't matter, since the robber in this case used the victim's choice to struggle to her advantage, using onlookers to aid in the robbery.

If they had called the police instead, there would have been a better outcome, but unfortunately, they instead committed a crime themselves by aiding the robber.
 

NotALiberal

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peruvianskys said:
Apologies, I will admit my misinformation regarding wolf whistling and sexual harassment laws.

My other points still stand, and tbh, you do come off as extremely irrational and femnazi-ish.

Still, props to you for being an upstanding citizen that does their part with such issues like male prison conditions. I live in Australia, where the prisons aren't nearly as bad.
 

Shadie777

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peruvianskys said:
The problem is that when men complain so loudly about occasionally experiencing what it's like to be a woman (i.e. subject to random violence, disempowerment, and misrepresentation), they are the ones who implicitly "underestimate [another's] pain" and "treat anyone's hardship like its nothing." When you act with incredible indignation and rage and hurt because you have to endure what women endure every day, then there is a clear implication that somehow it is worse for you simply because you are a man. If you don't frame every possible discussion regarding the problems you may face due to your sex with, "Despite the obvious benefits my sex grants me in every social, economic, and political situation, and despite the fact that I suffer due to my gender far less than women ever do, this particular situation shows me what the disempowered live like every day" then you are denying another's pain and treating another's hardship like its nothing."


I cannot make this more clear; when a man complains that he is occasionally harassed, exploited, or in this situation, subject to violence due to his gender, what they are really complaining is that they had to experience for one day what it is like for all women every day. Remember that.
You seem to not understand what I'm saying. I dislike it when anyone underestimates someone suffering. And thats what you're doing. You're are dismissing a man's suffering as less important as a woman's due to the fact that he doesn't experience a certain pain enough. That is abhorrent and it makes me sick. Notice, most people who do point out a male's suffering do not dismiss the amount of pain a crime of, lets say rape, hurts a woman. No, most of these people simply point out the issues that males also deal with aren't getting enough attention. You're the only person I have seen dismiss and/or underestimate these issues due to gender and "statistics".

peruvianskys said:
A good example of this is prison. Even in a high-security correctional facility, where inmates live their lives with a perpetual fear of violence and sexual exploitation, a man is less likely to be raped than a woman is EVERY DAY ON THE OUTSIDE. Prison life is better for men than regular life is for women when it comes to safety from violent crime, sexual or not. Think about that. The horror and fear that men experience going to prison, where our culture tells us that rape and humiliation and abuse are only inches away at any time, is not as great as the horror and fear that most women have walking home at night.
You're doing it again! You're brushing aside the seriousness of male rape in prison because that they have a small chance of experiencing the fear/pain of it outside of prison. Lets not miss the fact that your statement regarding the general quality of health and amount of male rape in prison and is flat out wrong. I have seen you sprout statistics out your ass, yet you don't even provide a source. Even if it is true, how does that dismiss the importance of stopping and bringing attention to the amount of male rape? Seriously, it is hardly covered within our culture when it should be and it is a serious issue, even if males in general experience it less than women.

peruvianskys said:
Here's a more personal story: Have you ever been abused? I have. I had a girlfriend who on many occasions was physically violent, not to mention verbally abusive and cruel. I thought she might actually seriously hurt me. This is a true story. I went to a domestic abuse counseling place in town and guess what? They couldn't do anything for me because they had over 40 women lined up behind their already full to capacity regular schedules. They were just telling people to call 911 because so many women were being beaten and abused that they couldn't physically help anyone else, male or female. There were just too many. And it was right there that I realized that I had gotten a glimpse, through my completely unacceptable and horrible and wrong abuse, into the fear and shame and hurt that literally hundreds of women in my town knew as facts of their daily lives. In the end, in the most basic terms, I wasn't being abused as a man so much as I was being forced to experience life as a woman. And I'll never forget that.

So please, don't treat another's pain like it means nothing by complaining when you have to experience one tenth of it.
So you experience abuse first hand, yet you dismiss the seriousness of male abuse because women experience it more? I don't even understand. The issue of abuse is damaging to both genders and it should be treated as such, even if males experience it less. Do you see a pattern with my thoughts?

Also, I just want to show you something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

The first person to open women's refuges and the first person to do something about this abuse that is caused to women.

(Also, I advise you to read the overview)

This is a study which she personally researched:
http://dvmen.org/dv-132.htm

She understands that abuse can happen to males and females. She understands that a lot of men do suffer from emotional and in some cases,physical abuse (it is thankfully getting more attention). She does not dismiss the seriousness of these crimes due to statistics and neither should you.
 

MrPanafonic

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Oct 4, 2011
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Boudica said:
SeanSeanston said:
- Male circumcision (unnecessary surgery performed in rather few places in the world which can and does cause problems such as death but is hardly discussed in such a light)
WOAH. Male circumcision in a hospital =/= women having their genitals mutilated in a hut.
Are you saying that men don't have the same thing done to them? Or that all women who are circumcised are done in a hut and not EVER in a hospital?

Boudica said:
SidheKnight said:
Going by that logic, you would side with a white person over an African American or Hispanic because of statistics, too?
Depends on the crime. For example, last I checked, white Americans are more likely to commit rape than African Americans.
Those statistics are shit because i know how many cases go unreported, it sickens me, i believe that those statistics need a backup or be thrown out of argument

IceStar100 said:
This is why people should not play hero. If two people are fighting let them. Last time someone tried to get between me and a buddy fight we turn and both kicked his ass.

Lesson of the day kiddo if you don't know what happening stay out of it.

I hope the guy take them both to court and get a HUGH payout stupity should be punished.
I agree with you there

Piecewise said:
Also Boudica is the worst type of sexist. The kind that hides behind the issues of other women to try and make her own sexism seem rational.

"Woman in (insert thirdworld shithole) have it bad! Men there have it slightly less bad! Men are violent, terrible people!"

And vegan. If she lives in California she's officially a stereotype.
Says Australia
 

ArnRand

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Mar 29, 2012
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neonit said:
oh ffs, what are you people discussing.

IT IS SEXISM. THEY MADE A DECISION BASED ON GENDER(and their, apparently false assumptions about genders), THEREFORE - SEXISM.

that there are people who would even argue about that is mind-boggling!

saying "oh, but men are more likely" is EXACTLY the same as saying that Black people, Hispanics, Chinese or what you want are more likely to be criminal.

it is sexism by very friggin definition.
OR it's not sexism, it's that the man was restraining the woman and to the inoccent bystander it looked as if he was the aggressor. Not because he was a man, but because shit happens and people get stuff wrong.

When you only have a split second to react it's easy to make the incorrect decision.
 

-|-

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Moonlight Butterfly said:
-|- said:
I don't understand how that is different to what I thought you said but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Somewhere at the start of this thread Boudica claimed the action wasn't sexist because statistics says men commit most violent crime. That reasoning is unsound, something that becomes apparent when you consider the implications of the samaritans accidentally helping a white criminal escape from an innocent black man because statistically speaking it's more likely to be the black man committing the crime. Something that I, personally, would class as racism.

Again, I don't think the people helping are sexist in any meaningful way - you could, at a stretch, make a case that their actions reflect wider systemic and cultural views of gender and if you are a certain type of individual go further and describe it as anti-male sexism. This wouldn't be the viewpoint of a reasonable person though - this is the view of people that use phrases like feminazi.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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Bentusi16 said:
"Well if I wanted to be facetious I could say it's sexism towards the woman because the men 'helping' couldn't possibly think she was a robber."

That's not facetious at all, that's exactly what sexism is.
Yeah but I figured it was quite humorous as people are trying to argue that the two guys were sexist against men saying 'Oh it must be the man who is the aggressor'

whereas I'm humorously saying they thought:

'Well shit women are weak she can't possibly be the aggressor'

Sexism ALL OVER THE PLACE bros!
 

saintdane05

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Common myths and misconceptions about feminism include:

All feminists are women.[/B]
Just as it's possible for straight people to be in favor of same-sex marriage, or for non-Jews to be against anti-Semitism, it is very much possible for men to identify as feminist. Some well-known men who identify as feminists or have expressed feminist ideals include Alan Alda, Joss Whedon, Kurt Cobain, John Lennon, Hayao Miyazaki, Henrik Ibsen, John Stuart Mill, Linkara and most of his male colleagues, Frederick Douglass, and L. Frank Baum.
It's worth noting that there's a minority school of thought that says while men can (and should) support feminism, they shouldn't identify themselves as feminists, because they think feminism is fundamentally about women solving their own problems without looking to men to do it for them. Men sympathetic to feminism who agree with this point of view generally describe themselves as "pro-feminist."

All feminists are lesbians.[/B]
Lesbians have been an important part of the feminist movement pretty much from day one ? prominent lesbian or bisexual feminists include Andrea Dworkin, Valerie Solanas, Simone de Beauvoir, Judith Butler, Julia Serano, Camille Paglia and Mary Daly. However, many (probably most) feminists are straight women. There are also male feminists (straight, bisexual, gay and asexual), asexual feminists, transgender feminists, and feminists of any other sexuality and gender identity you can think of.
There have been a few feminist writers ? especially during the 1970's, before the movement had made as many gains as it had today ? who suggested that it might not be possible to have a truly egalitarian heterosexual relationship as long as sexism remained pervasive in society. This was fiercely debated even at the time, though, and it was never mainstream feminist dogma that women had to swear off sex with men to become feminists.

All feminists are hairy-legged, makeup-shunnin', boot-wearin' brutes.[/B]
As much as feminists dislike the "women must be dainty and pretty" messages that society/media blast at them, for most, it's the must part that they object to. Some feminists choose to avoid or reject mainstream beauty ideals as a statement of protest, and there are even some who adhere to a Real Women Never Wear Dresses philosophy ? but it's increasingly argued that valuing traditionally masculine behavior (like being unconcerned about looks) over traditionally feminine behavior (like wearing dresses and makeup) is ultimately pretty anti-feminist in itself. Most feminists just think men and women should be equally free to decide for themselves how much effort they care to put into their appearance.

Feminism was invented in the 1970s.[/B]
Go back to any place and time where there has been widespread discrimination against women, and you will find feminism. (Or at least something that looks like feminism if you squint hard enough.) The word "feminism" dates back to 1895, and Christine de Pizan was writing feminist works as far back as the early 15th century. If you believe that men can be feminists and that identifying with the movement isn't essential, then according to some interpretations of his work feminism may go all the way back to Euripides. That would make Feminism Older Than Feudalism. (On the other hand, some of his contemporaries called him misogynistic even by Ancient Greek standards.)

Feminists think men and women are 100% identical.
Most feminists would agree that there are slight, overall differences between the sexes. While sentiments like "men tend to be slightly physically stronger than women" can lead to arguments if stated/interpreted wrongly, the majority of feminists would concede that, yes, males generally have females beat in raw strength. What really grinds a feminist's gears are suggestions that:

*Something that applies to one sex is universal and cannot apply to the other sex. ("Any man is physically stronger than any woman, ever, period.")

*Differences between the sexes are an excuse for sexual discrimination. ("Women are not as physically strong as men, and thus no women should ever be allowed to have jobs that require lifting heavy objects.") (Or, even worse, "Women are not as physically strong as men, and thus no woman should ever be allowed to have jobs.")

*Failure to adhere to expectations about one's sex is an excuse for ridicule. ("Any man weaker than a woman is a loser; any woman stronger than a man is a freak.")

Likewise, feminists often wonder how much of certain purported differences - say, girls being better at reading and boys being better at math - are actual innate differences, versus how much they might be a result of socialization (e.g., girls are scared away from pursuing math/boys refuse to spend time reading because they don't want to behave "inappropriately" for their gender and/or they're already convinced they'll be bad at it due to their gender). Most feminists don't deny that it's possible there are some real, innate psychological differences between the sexes ? they just think those differences are probably pretty small, and that it's better to just treat people to as individuals.
Feminists also have a problem with attributing to gender individual character traits that could have originated from other sources, like natural human reactions. For example, Jenny is crying because her father died ? which surely warrants a good cry ? but people observing her assume that she's emotionally distraught because she's a giiiiirl. (If you're about to protest that this sort of behavioral mis-assignment could happen to anyone, well, you're right: it's a known psychological bias called the fundamental attribution error.)
And just to complicate matters further, there's a whole school of thought (though, again, not the mainstream these days) called Difference Feminism, which argues that there are real, significant, biological differences between men and women, and that feminism should be not about treating men and women as the same, but about making sure feminine traits aren't devalued in comparison with masculine ones.

Feminists are frigid, hate sex, and want to stop anyone from enjoying porn or fanservice.[/B]
Feminists have a problem with porn tropes that promote a degrading or hateful view of women (Victim Falls For Rapist, Not If They Enjoyed It Rationalization, Sex Slave, etc.), and with the ways the porn industry exploits a lot of the women who work for it. Some (again, this was a more popular position in the 1970's than it is today) do think porn inherently objectifies women and is therefore always misogynistic; other feminists, though, think what the world actually needs is better porn ? porn that presents sex as something where both partners' desires should be equally important. There's more of a consensus on fanservice: feminists are generally not against seeing sexy ladies in media, but don't like how often the ladies' Character Development is pushed aside in favor of looking at their, err, other developments. In any case, most feminists enjoy sex just fine, and those who don't are typically at least okay with the idea of it. There's even a whole faction of the movement, called Sex-Positive Feminism, that focuses on working to promote positive and empowering views of sexuality.

Feminists hate men, think women are better than men, and think women should have more power than men.[/B]
Women who seriously blame men for everything are known to readers of this wiki as Straw Feminists and to mainstream feminists as "wrong." Most feminists don't think sexism is primarily something all individual men do to all individual women ? the problem is patriarchy, which is the name for the whole system of cultural ideas and institutions that function to oppress and control women. Women can ? and frequently do ? act in ways that support patriarchy, and men can ? and do ? fight patriarchy. The point of feminism (as much as such a vast and highly fragmented movement can be said to have a point) is to raise women to the level of rights/respect that men have had for centuries, not to drag men down to subhuman levels as some cosmic act of revenge.

Feminists think women are the only ones who are hurt by sexism, and don't care about men's problems.[/B]
It's pretty uncontroversial in feminist circles to point out that patriarchy hurts men in plenty of ways. (Some would argue that it hurts women more on the whole, but others think the whole question of whose oppression is worse is a pointless distraction from actually working to fix things.) A lot of feminists specifically focus on the ways men's oppression and women's oppression are linked ? for instance, many argue that companies need to start granting paternity leave both so that fathers can have the chance to bond with their kids, and so that women aren't always assumed to be the ones who are automatically responsible for child care.

Feminists burn bras.[/B]
Back in The Sixties, there were some public demonstrations in which feminists threw bras, high heels, and other fashion-related items into trash cans to protest unrealistic standards of beauty. A newspaper headline compared these actions to men burning draft cards during The Vietnam War. The two ideas got jumbled together in the public consciousness, and the myth of bra-burning continues to this day.
Feminists are angry, bitter harpies.[/B]

Most feminists will have certain Double Standards they especially loathe; however, they don't go around being cranky all the time, any more than atheists do. (Besides, don't we all have certain double standards we especially loathe? Fundamental attribution error at work again, ladies and gentlemen.)
 

Eri

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Feb 21, 2009
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will1957 said:
You take one stupid incident and make a shit load of assumptions about it without any real evidence to back it up, then bask in the hordes of people that will come in and bark complaints
Isn't this the very definition of what you just did?

This thread is not about "lady-hating". Both sexes have wrongs that need righting, double standards that need fixing and that's really where the conversation should end, but some people come into conversations and try to deny any sexism against males is valid because it's so much worse when it happens to women or they have had to deal with it longer, etc.

It shouldn't be tolerated for either female or male, and there's where it should stop.
 

Calibanbutcher

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Nov 29, 2009
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Calibanbutcher said:
peruvianskys said:
NotALiberal said:
Calibanbutcher said:
+ MEN IN PRISON have it better than WOMEN NOT IN PRISON? Are you nuts?
In terms of probabilities of sexual violence, yes.
Care to back that up with some statistics? Or other facts?
EDIT:
Sorry, meant "sources"
Well, I did some digging around: According to some major studies, about 16% of all women are raped and/or subjected to sexual assaults, whilst about 20% of all male prison inmates are raped and/or subjected to sexual assaults. Now, seems like there really is not much of a difference...
Of course, these are only based on reported cases, but my guess would be that the number for women in freedom and men in prison not reporting rape is about equal.
Source: Wikipedia and some studies.