Women: Do you consider yourself superior to men?

[Cephei Mordred]

As a radical egalitarian, I tend to define 'misogyny' and 'misandry' more broadly than most.

This will never end until we have Instrumentality.

Until then, well, just stop thinking in terms of the "gender war."

 

[Mouse_Crouse]

I think tha all these threads saying "OMG feminism is bad" make one common mistake; they apply the ideals of radicals of a small minority of members and apply them to the whole group.

You can apply this to almost everything on the internet. Islam, Christians, Conservatives, Liberals. It's what people do. Take the worst parts of a group and apply it to the whole.

 

[orangeban]

It really is feminism week on the Escapist huh? Ah well, it's a topic that deserves discussion.

I whole heartedly support feminism and I'm genuinally shocked when I meet someone who isn't a feminist (not counting those who say, "I'm not a feminist, I believe in equalitarianism" or some variation of that theme.) Feminism was the pursuning of equality between women and men in terms of rights and official law. This has generally been acquired so I think feminism has evolved into a movement about eroding societies ridiculous ideas about gender roles and about what consitutes a man and a woman (answer: Incredibly little, mainly just feeling like you are one (genitals is not an acceptable answer, it is ignorant to transgendered people.)

 

[thenarth]

Again, if chivalry is wrong, I don't want to be right.

I take your "chivalry" and raise you "manners". If I'm not in a hurry I'll hold doors open for people who seem to be in more of a hurry than me, and if I go through a door with people following, I'll try to keep it open as much as I can while I pass so they can do the same for the next person with minimal effort. If I don't have to fight I won't hit people. If I absolutely have no resort but to hit people fine but hitting people when it's needless is bad.

You see where I'm coming from? By extending courtesies that every human being should recieve only to women you are infact being sexist, even if you mean well.

Of course it's been found in various studies that people respond more favourable to people if they're female.

An earlier poster discussed women being oppressed for milennia and men have to suffer a bit while this evens out and that's fair. At the moment, western society has reached the point where both sides need to fight for themselves now. Things are pretty close or close to equal in a lot of ways but both genders are suffering. Women presently have to work hard to get to the top, but the bottom of society is also disproportionately male, with men being more likely to go to jail or work a job which kills them. You can argue that men, are also let down by society. I was raised by my father, I am a masculist as a result of things that happened, but I am also a feminist.

The gender wage gap issue is a complicated one, because it's extremely arguable that most of it doesn't infact stem from actual sexism but a variety of corporate practices and also the preferences of men and women (this doesn't mean that it doesn't need fixing but that shouting at men more won't fix it). On top of that oppression of both men and women is often not about gender politics at all but rather just maximising profits. Many women are paid less because they'll accept less, of course they're also more likely to get the job by virtue of being cheap. Talk of a "patriarchy" keeping women down is utter nonsense, there's no cabal of men working to harm women. There is however a lot of ruthless corporate executives who see keeping women down as a means to profit. I have a lot more to say on the subject but I'm already more than a little off topic.

The problem is that both genders are equal but not necessarily the same. But despite that we have to ensure that people can do whatever they want without their gender holding them back. Or we should aim for that. I'd argue in some cases we have to give more rights to women, sometimes, helping men will even things out. I agree that men have to put up with some quirks for now, but I also feel that we should be fighting for our rights. However the problem is women (aside from a few feminazis) are not the enemy, they too have their problems, and a lot of our issues need unravelling from both sides. I also suspect that ironically both men and women are held back at least as often by their own gender as others. Women work harder to keep other women down in the workplace and the judges who hand out sexist verdicts in parental court cases are often men.

As for the issues of "male culture" I saw an excellent video that summed it up pretty well on SMBC of all places. Growing up as a male you have to avoid macho BS and physical violence (or at least weather it) as a woman you weather emotional violence instead. Truth is, we're all a bit crap.

As ever the ideal solution lies in the working together of women and men, perhaps doing different things (but also quite possibly not doing different things), but they are of equal importance and deserving of equal respect in doing their role, because to loop back to the start of my post, we're all people.

 

[iRevanchist]

Yes, most definitely. Then again, I consider my self superior to all women as well.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

I think the thing that feminists (radical or 'normal') need to realize is that lack of empathy is a thing that can be learned. That old trite saying about "When fighting monsters, don't become one yourself?" That's exactly what it means, that once you're accustomed to thinking of your enemies as monsters, it's hard to see them as human beings.

And yes, I have seen some strongly defend their right to verbally abuse people who disagree with them, not just the misogynists but anyone who doesn't believe their narrative. Apparently they forget that there's a reason that Well Intentioned Extremists are called Extremists. Treating anyone who is not 100 percent on your side as a monster who doesn't deserve civility is not well intentioned behavior.

 

[Rex Fallout]

In my opinion this is a stupid question. It seems to indicate you think all men are exactly the same, when that isn't true at all. Just like all women are not the same. Roughly 90% of men I know are idiots. Roughly 90% of women I know are idiots. Gender has nothing to do with it. I consider myself superior to most other guys just because I'm not a meat head. I also consider myself superior to a lot of women I know. With that said, I also know several women and men that I consider superior to me... in some ways. I'd hope most women would see this in a similar light.

I'm a guy by the way. So, you may not care what I think.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

No not really.

I actually sometimes wish I was a guy so I would be more accepted within the things that I love ie Comics and Video Games. I am kind of unusual where I live, I think I would have an easier time of it if I lived in a city or something. As it is I much prefer the company of men but of course I'll never be one of the guys...

If a woman hasn't got make up caked on or 3 kids by the time you are 30 people tend to think you are a wierdo round here...It's kind of depressing. I just don't have any interest in that stuff.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

Well Rex, the thing of it is, to a certain extent, femininity is treated as a good in and of itself, whereas the male principle is not. At least, I've never been told that I should wake up every morning feeling proud of myself for being born male.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Woman are not superior to men, and vice versa. Both men and woman are better at certain tasks than the other gender....and again their are oppersites in that rule as well. Just what being human is about. Although, what i do know is that woman have better breasts than men....regardless of size. Is that sexist? Or a fact? I say fact.

So i guess the rule is everyone is equal, but some are better at stuff than others regardless of gender. If you look down on the opporsite sex as being below you - then you are an arsehole.

 

[_tinned_magpie_]

I think we're superior in some ways, but I think men are superior to us in other ways. It's just how we're made.

 

[Beliyal]

You use a lot of generalitivity (if thats a word) but I agree. =p

Also love the avatar. Wish I had those dance moves.

If it isn't a word then it should be =P

And my avatar thanks you for your compliment. (I like to pretend it's Garrus dancing. ... ... What? >_>)

(I'm with you on the pretending.) And I like your posts!

Anyway, do I consider myself superior to men? What kind of a question is that? Of course not. Nothing I do or think or consider has anything to do with my or the gender of other people. In most cases, I refrain from using the term "male" or "female" and just use "person", because if some PERSON irritates me, it's because he/she is an annoying person, not an annoying male/female.

I'm fairly interested in why do a lot of people here constantly make threads about women, women's rights, feminism and such. Seriously, guys, we're not some endangered species, 50% of the world's population is female. It is extremely ridiculous to think that either 50% of the world's population is <insert some stereotype, prejudice, ancient beliefs that don't hold any water, social norms not applicable on today's society>. Men and women are not the same biologically, and we have certain differences, but to point out those differences is completely unnecessary (for example; men are better at orientation, women are better with colours. So what? If I can't find my way, I'll buy a GPS. It would be a problem two thousand years ago, but it is not a problem today. Can we move away from it?). Personality, interests and hobbies have nothing to do with what I have between my legs. Because society has not yet worked out on the whole equality thing (although, things are better than before, of course), we still educate boys and girls differently and end up reinforcing the stereotypes that are simply unnecessary. Mostly, it ends up like this "feminazism" and sexism.

So, superior to men? I hope you haven't actually heard women saying this, in a serious manner, because those women are deluded just as their chauvinist male counterparts. Which is sad, really. Just ignore those people, they are not worth your time. And don't associate feminism with those people. They can claim they are feminists, but misandry and female superiority is not and will never be feminism. If some women think women are superior and act all holier than thou while claiming they're feminists, just tell them to go and read the definition of feminism from the dictionary. Or, even better, ignore them, they'll probably attack you for telling them to go read the dictionary and call you sexist.

 

[Ympulse]

However, women are infinitely better at leading and managing. I personally believe that they make better managers than men do.

Purely anecdotal evidence, so take this with a grain of salt, but my experiences have shown the opposite. The vast majority of female supervisors I've come in contact with have been by and large less effective than the male supervisors. This is, I'm sure, due to the nature of the work involved, but there it is. and by less effective, I mean overall less productivity, team solidarity, and in one extreme case outright failure to complete the job. (Although I would blame that on the individual, not the gender)

 

[RomanceIsDead]

Nobody hates feminism (well, except misogynists).

People hate femi-nazism.

And the whole "use your feminine wiles to control his puny male brain" is just a joke. Nothing to be taken seriously.

No different than the whole, "more importantly, why isn't she in the kitchen making me a sandwich?" jokes.

We like to poke fun at the old gender stereotypes.

Well, girls freak out at the sandwiches, so why can't I freak out over the punieness of my inferior male brain?

All that matters is whether you think they are superior or not.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

So, superior to men? I hope you haven't actually heard women saying this, in a serious manner, because those women are deluded just as their chauvinist male counterparts. Which is sad, really. Just ignore those people, they are not worth your time. And don't associate feminism with those people. They can claim they are feminists, but misandry and female superiority is not and will never be feminism. If some women think women are superior and act all holier than thou while claiming they're feminists, just tell them to go and read the definition of feminism from the dictionary. Or, even better, ignore them, they'll probably attack you for telling them to go read the dictionary and call you sexist.

Just like you don't have to be an avowed cross burning klansman to be a racist, you don't have to be blatant about it to be a misandrist. If it were that easy, there would be no problems.

In fact, the problems come precisely because it's sometimes hard to distinguish genuine concern for complete equality in society, as opposed to acting like victims (and therefore presumably morally superior to the oppressor). The internet can compound the problem, because all we have is text and we have to read other stuff into it.

 

[Jennacide]

Nobody hates feminism (well, except misogynists).

People hate femi-nazism.

Good, someone beat me to it.

I don't put myself over men in general, but I do when I discover if any man I encounter is just a misogynist and no longer worth my time. I hate femi-nazis as much as anyone else, they don't do anything for stopping the ill concieved beliefs about women, they just help them along and make us look stupid.

Not all women believe porn is wrong for instance, I certainly don't. It's one of those femi-nazi things that people believe all women view porn as exploitative. The truth of the matter is that you men are the ones being exploited, women make twice the money as male porn stars and have the better contracts and working conditions. I wouldn't star in porn personally, but I do have a friend that does it for a living and she's perfectly sane and very well off in life.

 

[Beliyal]

So, superior to men? I hope you haven't actually heard women saying this, in a serious manner, because those women are deluded just as their chauvinist male counterparts. Which is sad, really. Just ignore those people, they are not worth your time. And don't associate feminism with those people. They can claim they are feminists, but misandry and female superiority is not and will never be feminism. If some women think women are superior and act all holier than thou while claiming they're feminists, just tell them to go and read the definition of feminism from the dictionary. Or, even better, ignore them, they'll probably attack you for telling them to go read the dictionary and call you sexist.

Just like you don't have to be an avowed cross burning klansman to be a racist, you don't have to be blatant about it to be a misandrist. If it were that easy, there would be no problems.

In fact, the problems come precisely because it's sometimes hard to distinguish genuine concern for complete equality in society, as opposed to acting like victims (and therefore presumably morally superior to the oppressor). The internet can compound the problem, because all we have is text and we have to read other stuff into it.

True, I agree. I guess that the only way to solve the problem would be some good education and gradually removing the harmful traditions from the society. As in, there's nothing wrong with being the "typical" man or a woman, but it's wrong for those things to be imposed on people since early childhood. Of course, some problems will always exist, and some people will always play the gender card to get out of certain situations, but I do hope it will be less so in the future. Of course, there's always been more concern for women (thus, the movement was named "feminism") because, due to historical reasons, women were the ones who were oppressed so society is still touchy about the subject. Although the name is still the same, feminism now fights for all gender related problems, female and male ones (at least, real feminism does), but I guess some people don't really know what the term stands for and use it, wrongly, to justify some of their thoughts and acts (which ends up being harmful to everyone).

 

[Sariteiya]

Uh, I judge people individually on a sliding scale of preference in reaction to many interactions over a period of time. Call me crazy but whether or not they have a wang very rarely factors into this process.

Honestly, We're all just people. Terrible, wonderful, complicated people. To blanket judge a whole gender just limits yourself, and hurts others.

And yes, I'm a woman.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

True, I agree. I guess that the only way to solve the problem would be some good education and gradually removing the harmful traditions from the society. As in, there's nothing wrong with being the "typical" man or a woman, but it's wrong for those things to be imposed on people since early childhood. Of course, some problems will always exist, and some people will always play the gender card to get out of certain situations, but I do hope it will be less so in the future. Of course, there's always been more concern for women (thus, the movement was named "feminism") because, due to historical reasons, women were the ones who were oppressed so society is still touchy about the subject.

And this is one of the first things that must stop, in my view. We aren't going to be able to move ahead until we quit focusing so much on the past and using it to make those in present feel guilty.

Although the name is still the same, feminism now fights for all gender related problems, female and male ones (at least, real feminism does), but I guess some people don't really know what the term stands for and use it, wrongly, to justify some of their thoughts and acts (which ends up being harmful to everyone).

Agreed completely. In addition, I think maybe part of the problem is that the genuine, non man shaming, equality instead of female focused feminism tends to not be as controversial and therefore gets ignored in favor of the louder and more partisan ones.

That said, the real problem is that humans are bastards, and some women use the reality of past oppression and present less than perfect circumstances to feel morally superior and use it to club over the heads of men.

On a related tangent, I'm finding more and more that 'internet feminism' as I now call it seems to basically be defined as "The fear that somewhere, somehow, a guy with Nice Guy Syndrome* feels vindicated." Perhaps that's a bit silly, but I came up with it in the wake of the controversy about that magic champion guy and that woman who blogged mean things about their date.

The more partisan feminist party line seemed to be "Sure she went too far with her post, but don't you DARE feel vindicated, Nice Guy Syndromers! Women are still perfectly entitled to haughtily turn their nose up at you for being geeky losers who play video games all day but men are still almost singlehandedly responsible for the near universal situation of body image issues in women!"

* - Defined as the passive aggressive "women should love me just for existing and being so nice, they prefer bad boys and jerks instead" types.

 

[Beliyal]

True, I agree. I guess that the only way to solve the problem would be some good education and gradually removing the harmful traditions from the society. As in, there's nothing wrong with being the "typical" man or a woman, but it's wrong for those things to be imposed on people since early childhood. Of course, some problems will always exist, and some people will always play the gender card to get out of certain situations, but I do hope it will be less so in the future. Of course, there's always been more concern for women (thus, the movement was named "feminism") because, due to historical reasons, women were the ones who were oppressed so society is still touchy about the subject.

And this is one of the first things that must stop, in my view. We aren't going to be able to move ahead until we quit focusing so much on the past and using it to make those in present feel guilty.

Although the name is still the same, feminism now fights for all gender related problems, female and male ones (at least, real feminism does), but I guess some people don't really know what the term stands for and use it, wrongly, to justify some of their thoughts and acts (which ends up being harmful to everyone).

Agreed completely. In addition, I think maybe part of the problem is that the genuine, non man shaming, equality instead of female focused feminism tends to not be as controversial and therefore gets ignored in favor of the louder and more partisan ones.

That said, the real problem is that humans are bastards, and some women use the reality of past oppression and present less than perfect circumstances to feel morally superior and use it to club over the heads of men.

On a related tangent, I'm finding more and more that 'internet feminism' as I now call it seems to basically be defined as "The fear that somewhere, somehow, a guy with Nice Guy Syndrome* feels vindicated." Perhaps that's a bit silly, but I came up with it in the wake of the controversy about that magic champion guy and that woman who blogged mean things about their date.

The more partisan feminist party line seemed to be "Sure she went too far with her post, but don't you DARE feel vindicated, Nice Guy Syndromers! Women are still perfectly entitled to haughtily turn their nose up at you for being geeky losers who play video games all day but men are still almost singlehandedly responsible for the near universal situation of body image issues in women!"

* - Defined as the passive aggressive "women should love me just for existing and being so nice, they prefer bad boys and jerks instead" types.

Yup, I agree. Especially this last thing about the geeky stuff. Though, it seems to me that geeks in general get a lot of "hate" from others, and people just assume that we'll deal with it without being insulted or something. Like, "So what, he/she is a geek, who cares?". And much more teasing goes to male geeks, as everyone immediately assumes they are all basement-dwelling asocial virgins and that's, for some reason, funny (because, "real people" go out and get drunk and stuff). What that woman did with that blog was really disrespectful and awful, although the guy didn't seem to care that much (but hey, what do we know how he really felt? And while we're at it; it's not "manly" to show that you're sad or disappointed so for all we know, he had to pretend to be dealing with it in order not to end up looking like a wimp or something). We're just in this tricky times where the whole equality fight is still relatively fresh enough, but we also strive to go much further without properly educating people. It'll balance out eventually though.

Oh and yeah, I agree on the focusing on the past and all; while it's certainly not good to forget it, it's not good to constantly live through the past either. We should learn what happened and how it happened, but shouldn't use it all the time as some justification to do shit right now. Nobody here lived in the times when women didn't have the right to vote and while we all see some sort of discrimination during our lives, we certainly can't go and justify misandry or superiority complexes by saying "Well, we were inferior for thousands of years, now it's our turn to be on top". Especially women shouldn't be doing that, because we know (from history) how it feels to be inferior; why would anyone want to do that to others? I know I wouldn't wish that to happen to anyone else, ever (just thinking about the fact that you are simply not allowed to attend school or to do anything else but give birth to children frustrates me, despite never experiencing it).