Why is everyone talking about how WOW is dying? Can you even imagine 11.1 million people? I can't. It may be on the way down but that's kind of like stating that our Sun is on it's way to burning out.
World of Warcraft Subscriptions Continue to Slide
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
I joined up in late Vanilla but actually started playing in late BC upon joining an RP realm, quitting a few months before Cata came out. Didn't know it would turn out that bad, but the community kept on getting worse and worse, hence I was saved from the horribleness.
Well, I don't know about old poor design choices, but from what I've been hearing they've been making a few poor design choices recently....synobal said:
I only played a little of the beta, but from what I saw Rift was pretty much just a WoW clone, I'm not saying it definitely is(not trying to irk fans, just my experience), but from the few days I played it really only seemed to have a few perks that made it much different than WoW.
Also, I really don't think WoW can hold on forever, it's still a great game overall (11.1 million subscribers is nothing to sneeze at) but people just can't stay interested in the same game forever. Stuff happens, other games come out, their lives move on, etc. and I don't think adding another dungeon or two is gonna make much of a difference.
Vanilla still was the best, stopped halfway TBC because 25 man raids didnt do it for me and it was to easy. Instead of cheers all over vent when we downed a boss it was: Meh, we downed him/her onto the next.
Picked up cata for 3 months, came back to see the new changed "old" world, that part was fun though but then i got at raid content, got bored again, left again.
And killing Deathwing? Killed your son and daughter a gazillion times, so no thanks. (nef, ony)
And killing Ragnaros AGAIN? You really dont care anymore do you?
Blizzard has grown to big and fat imo, time to look for another developer willing to push the boundries like Blizzard once did. Safe bets dont make heroes.
Blizzard haven't had new IP for the last 10 years....
Picked up cata for 3 months, came back to see the new changed "old" world, that part was fun though but then i got at raid content, got bored again, left again.
And killing Deathwing? Killed your son and daughter a gazillion times, so no thanks. (nef, ony)
And killing Ragnaros AGAIN? You really dont care anymore do you?
Blizzard has grown to big and fat imo, time to look for another developer willing to push the boundries like Blizzard once did. Safe bets dont make heroes.
Blizzard haven't had new IP for the last 10 years....
Gee if subscriptions going down causes this kind of panic imagine what will happen when WoW actually does really start to die. It may be months, years or decades but all things come to an end and someday WoW will end too. (I wonder what will come next?)
"No king rules forever, my son."
If you watched the Fall of the Lich King, you know what this means.
Now I relentlessly hate WoW's samey, boring grinding and price (YOUR SOUL) for end-game (a price I refuse to pay), but I still respect the GUI for being THE best I've ever seen in every MMO I've played so far (EverQuest, Global Agenda, Vanguard and many more).
If you watched the Fall of the Lich King, you know what this means.
Now I relentlessly hate WoW's samey, boring grinding and price (YOUR SOUL) for end-game (a price I refuse to pay), but I still respect the GUI for being THE best I've ever seen in every MMO I've played so far (EverQuest, Global Agenda, Vanguard and many more).
Really Blizzard? More dungeoning and raiding content? The dungeoning has already been ruined because of how formulaic it is to form a group. More dungeons just means more of the same non-talkative, achievement-bashing pick up groups. It's not as social as it once was, when the dungeons actually catered to those groups that had a specific line up of roles (i.e tanks, heals, dps, cc, etc)
The leveling has been made too easy and it was the primary reason for why I left. The graphics itself is starting to show its age and the new user interface just seems like it's pandering to me.
The leveling has been made too easy and it was the primary reason for why I left. The graphics itself is starting to show its age and the new user interface just seems like it's pandering to me.
I don't like to be that guy but, please show us link with heroic achievements if its all "too easy" and what mounts are they making you pay for? They don't MAKE you pay for anything. If you're talking about ingame its all entirely optional and the Blizzard Store, you don't have to buy that crap.kingcat1 said:
OT I know.
Well, the game feels lonely. Even with populated servers. You rarely see ANYBODY outside of Stormwind/Ironforge/Orgrimmar. If you're not in the new zones its pretty much a ghost town and you wander around questing all alone. Back in Vanilla it was so fresh. You would make a new toon, see tons of people running around you, killing boars, wolfs etc.
The leveling wasn't as faceroll as it is now and you made friendships through general chat and forming groups. Joining lame guilds (and not just elite raid guilds) and screwing around. Raiding towns to PvP, you get no reward but it was fun just getting owned by the guards or killing one or two enemies.
Back when battlegrounds and doing dungeons was all WITHIN the server. You formed strong communities and had a great time. BC comes around and was a blast as well. They changed some things up and it was new and fresh. We loved it.
Wrath. Eh. Too many gearscore elitists and not enough fun. Zones started to get abandoned and the game started to spiral downward. Now with Cata you sit in a city and do dungeons with people you don't know. You PvP with people you don't know. The PvP is super unbalanced, Fireland quests get boring real fast. Raiding is somewhat difficult so thats a plus, but unless you're in a super uber raid guild. You're stuck to grinding out 5 mans.
inb4 nostalgia or whatever. Not saying vanilla and BC were amazing, they had lots of faults. But in my OPINION. After those two, the game just started to feel lonely. Which is my main point. Blizzard wants everybody to interact when I was just happy only interacting with people on the server, a lvl 60 cap and some fun and challenging raids/PvP.
Wall of Text Alert!!!!
A bit off topic, i suppose, but i am actually really impressed how mature most posts have been. After reading through all, yes all though i admit i skimmed, the amount of "Lol WoW sucks!" seems to be confined mostly to the facebook comments on the front page.
OT: Me and my wife quit WoW recently, just out of sheer boredom. To get into any raids would require grinding out five mans in the DF just to meet the Gearscore requirement for anyone to glance at you, and upon learning we hadn't actually done them yet... Well fuck you buddy.
Before anyone screams "Oh look the casual wants shit handed to him" No. What i want is for there to be fun and varied things to do. Not hit the DF and wait ten-fifteen minutes to get into a group, have the tank snap at a DPS and leave, or even better, get screamed at because someones health dipped below fifty percent, not die mind you, but apparently I am crappy healer for that.
My wife flat out stopped trying to do dungeons anymore. She just can't take people treating her like shit over floating numbers in a video game, and since raiding is all WoW has going for it's end game...
(Shit I am getting off topic... Where was i going with this... Right...)
One of the nice things about the Vanilla game was that there was a place for both the hardcore raider and the casual player. The casual player didn't mind not having the shinies, we had other shit to amuse ourselves with. There were massive, labyrinth like dungeons to explore, Undead to slay for the argent crusade, sillithid to beat down... Me and my friends Loved Black Rock Depths. It was awesome just crawling around that place, looking for shit to discover and explore.
Now look at dungeons.. sequences of hallways... Dungeons used to be the place for Casuals like me to fuck around in and have fun. Scholomance, Lower Blackrock Spire, Blackrock Depths, Stratholem.... Go look at those maps. Do it. Do it now. Those were what casuals did for fun... Raids, Raids were for the people who wanted them... We didn't spend all that time in BlackRock for gear. We spent it there because the place was immense and confusing (No maps bitches, my buddy still has his hand drawn ones in a binder)
Now it's all about Ilvl and achievements and getting the purple and I wasn't much into that... I stayed for awhile because Wrath still had some fun shit for me to do in it... But Cata just.. doesn't... So we left. No MMO yet has anything like what i Wanted, and I likely won't pick up another one. The closest thing to an MMO I am interested in is Dust514, and many will argue that doesn't count as an MMO at all.
This is just the way I see things. I remember logging into WoW and never, ever spending more then four minutes without seeing another soul (and usually, it was a bunch of souls. An adventuring party you could almost say!). I remember Dungeons worthy of that fucking Word. It. Was. A. Dungeon. A maddeningly long twisting turning dungeon.
For Me. BC was the sign of the end. Because after BC i started to stop seeing anyone. People started to disappear from the game world. Dungeons started to be much, much smaller and less confounding. Rarely was I seeing faction brawls breaking out in the middle of Zones because two groups happened across each other.
Now a days the only reason why a field of skeletons litters the barrens is because some 85 prick got bored, and he will turn tail the second another 85 appears. Wrath sealed the coffin on Dungeons, being nothing more then hallways meant to give loot (One being a thing i hated, the other, couldn't give a shit about).
While the quests were still fun and zones interesting dungeons were no longer soemthing for me. I was expected to view them as a means to an end, and not the end to my means. Everything started being geared towards raiding, the zones emptied out, everyone sat in Dal to form groups, then with the DF, people never left.
Then.. Cata... Honestly, i felt a stronger sense of community freezing my balls off waiting for the game then i ever did playing it... More fun to...
You can call alot of what i have said nostalgia... And christ, your probably right. The thing is though... I only dropped my Sub once back in vanilla, and that was when my family moved to a place with no internet for two months. When i came back, i wasn't suddenly leagues behind in what i wanted to do. I logged in, and my buddies were there waiting for me, ready to kick the shit out of dragons and what not.
Now, as an adult, the game makes me feel so... god.. impotent. Like there is all this great shit to do (maybe) but first i got to grind out repetitive dungeons i have no desire to do so i can grind out the raids... So i can do what? Make them easier because of the better gear?
No...
I want to dick around in a labyrinth with my friends.
I want to run into a group of people caught in a faction turf battle, send a whisp and join the raid to be fighting alongside my strange allies agaisnt the Xenophobic alliance. For no other reason then "Well FUCK them."
I want to see the words "THRALL IS BEING ATTACKED!" and watch everyone drop what they are doing to lend a hand in repelling the invading scum.
I want to bump into a random priest fighting for the argent crusade in the EP, join up, shoot the shit while taking them down, and part ways having made a new friend.
Vanilla had it's shared of flaws, problems, and stupid shit that I am positive i am blocking out due to these rosy red goggles i have on right now.
But damn... It was a fine game... I hope that Titan tries to capture the spirit of vanilla while bringing something new to it...
This is just the way i see things, and if you feel completely opposite then me, well that is totally one hundred percent valid. As said, i am sure much of this is nostalgia...
In closing... People keep saying WoW is made 'easier' or that it has been given to 'the casuals'. I suppose in part, your right. However before you cry that shit think of it like this.
There are two playgrounds. One for the third graders and one for the fifth graders. Then one day, the school shuts down the third grader playground and demands they go play with the fifth.
The third graders are unhappy because the fifth grader playground is not fun for them, at all. It's rewarding in a way they are not interested in at all. So the school begins altering it trying to make them happy.
Now the fifth graders are pissed, because the challenges are made more 'accessible' and the rewards they used to work and push themselves so hard for are now in every second kids hands and required half the thought.
Now, as said, i don't doubt most players nowadays really are the bitchy whiny "I want everything handed to me" type.
But remember... For every few dozen.. or hundred... or thousand guys whining because they want things easier... There is a guy like me... Who just wants his fucking playground back...
{This opinion brought to you by Kagim. You are welcome to think I am wrong in every single particular way. It's just how i feel, So relax.)
A bit off topic, i suppose, but i am actually really impressed how mature most posts have been. After reading through all, yes all though i admit i skimmed, the amount of "Lol WoW sucks!" seems to be confined mostly to the facebook comments on the front page.
OT: Me and my wife quit WoW recently, just out of sheer boredom. To get into any raids would require grinding out five mans in the DF just to meet the Gearscore requirement for anyone to glance at you, and upon learning we hadn't actually done them yet... Well fuck you buddy.
Before anyone screams "Oh look the casual wants shit handed to him" No. What i want is for there to be fun and varied things to do. Not hit the DF and wait ten-fifteen minutes to get into a group, have the tank snap at a DPS and leave, or even better, get screamed at because someones health dipped below fifty percent, not die mind you, but apparently I am crappy healer for that.
My wife flat out stopped trying to do dungeons anymore. She just can't take people treating her like shit over floating numbers in a video game, and since raiding is all WoW has going for it's end game...
(Shit I am getting off topic... Where was i going with this... Right...)
One of the nice things about the Vanilla game was that there was a place for both the hardcore raider and the casual player. The casual player didn't mind not having the shinies, we had other shit to amuse ourselves with. There were massive, labyrinth like dungeons to explore, Undead to slay for the argent crusade, sillithid to beat down... Me and my friends Loved Black Rock Depths. It was awesome just crawling around that place, looking for shit to discover and explore.
Now look at dungeons.. sequences of hallways... Dungeons used to be the place for Casuals like me to fuck around in and have fun. Scholomance, Lower Blackrock Spire, Blackrock Depths, Stratholem.... Go look at those maps. Do it. Do it now. Those were what casuals did for fun... Raids, Raids were for the people who wanted them... We didn't spend all that time in BlackRock for gear. We spent it there because the place was immense and confusing (No maps bitches, my buddy still has his hand drawn ones in a binder)
Now it's all about Ilvl and achievements and getting the purple and I wasn't much into that... I stayed for awhile because Wrath still had some fun shit for me to do in it... But Cata just.. doesn't... So we left. No MMO yet has anything like what i Wanted, and I likely won't pick up another one. The closest thing to an MMO I am interested in is Dust514, and many will argue that doesn't count as an MMO at all.
This is just the way I see things. I remember logging into WoW and never, ever spending more then four minutes without seeing another soul (and usually, it was a bunch of souls. An adventuring party you could almost say!). I remember Dungeons worthy of that fucking Word. It. Was. A. Dungeon. A maddeningly long twisting turning dungeon.
For Me. BC was the sign of the end. Because after BC i started to stop seeing anyone. People started to disappear from the game world. Dungeons started to be much, much smaller and less confounding. Rarely was I seeing faction brawls breaking out in the middle of Zones because two groups happened across each other.
Now a days the only reason why a field of skeletons litters the barrens is because some 85 prick got bored, and he will turn tail the second another 85 appears. Wrath sealed the coffin on Dungeons, being nothing more then hallways meant to give loot (One being a thing i hated, the other, couldn't give a shit about).
While the quests were still fun and zones interesting dungeons were no longer soemthing for me. I was expected to view them as a means to an end, and not the end to my means. Everything started being geared towards raiding, the zones emptied out, everyone sat in Dal to form groups, then with the DF, people never left.
Then.. Cata... Honestly, i felt a stronger sense of community freezing my balls off waiting for the game then i ever did playing it... More fun to...
You can call alot of what i have said nostalgia... And christ, your probably right. The thing is though... I only dropped my Sub once back in vanilla, and that was when my family moved to a place with no internet for two months. When i came back, i wasn't suddenly leagues behind in what i wanted to do. I logged in, and my buddies were there waiting for me, ready to kick the shit out of dragons and what not.
Now, as an adult, the game makes me feel so... god.. impotent. Like there is all this great shit to do (maybe) but first i got to grind out repetitive dungeons i have no desire to do so i can grind out the raids... So i can do what? Make them easier because of the better gear?
No...
I want to dick around in a labyrinth with my friends.
I want to run into a group of people caught in a faction turf battle, send a whisp and join the raid to be fighting alongside my strange allies agaisnt the Xenophobic alliance. For no other reason then "Well FUCK them."
I want to see the words "THRALL IS BEING ATTACKED!" and watch everyone drop what they are doing to lend a hand in repelling the invading scum.
I want to bump into a random priest fighting for the argent crusade in the EP, join up, shoot the shit while taking them down, and part ways having made a new friend.
Vanilla had it's shared of flaws, problems, and stupid shit that I am positive i am blocking out due to these rosy red goggles i have on right now.
But damn... It was a fine game... I hope that Titan tries to capture the spirit of vanilla while bringing something new to it...
This is just the way i see things, and if you feel completely opposite then me, well that is totally one hundred percent valid. As said, i am sure much of this is nostalgia...
In closing... People keep saying WoW is made 'easier' or that it has been given to 'the casuals'. I suppose in part, your right. However before you cry that shit think of it like this.
There are two playgrounds. One for the third graders and one for the fifth graders. Then one day, the school shuts down the third grader playground and demands they go play with the fifth.
The third graders are unhappy because the fifth grader playground is not fun for them, at all. It's rewarding in a way they are not interested in at all. So the school begins altering it trying to make them happy.
Now the fifth graders are pissed, because the challenges are made more 'accessible' and the rewards they used to work and push themselves so hard for are now in every second kids hands and required half the thought.
Now, as said, i don't doubt most players nowadays really are the bitchy whiny "I want everything handed to me" type.
But remember... For every few dozen.. or hundred... or thousand guys whining because they want things easier... There is a guy like me... Who just wants his fucking playground back...
{This opinion brought to you by Kagim. You are welcome to think I am wrong in every single particular way. It's just how i feel, So relax.)
Never really got into WoW. However, I will add this: I would HATE to work at Blizzard. Can you imagine...?
"OMG MOAR CONTENT"
"Subscriptions are going down! D8"
"More sales! More sales!"
"ANOTHER WoW knockoff? Ghah!"
"FFF-- Holidays are coming up! We gotta deliver something good!"
"People hate the new content?!"
Or something like that. Dunno, that's the way I see it.
"OMG MOAR CONTENT"
"Subscriptions are going down! D8"
"More sales! More sales!"
"ANOTHER WoW knockoff? Ghah!"
"FFF-- Holidays are coming up! We gotta deliver something good!"
"People hate the new content?!"
Or something like that. Dunno, that's the way I see it.
You know, the way you describe the old WoW kinda intrigues me. Like I said, I never really got into Wow, but it sounds like it's something I would enjoy and, in fact, it's what I'm looking for in a game:S Something that simulates (But doesn't replace) real life: You run into someone, you talk, some guy runs in and asks for help, you drop everything and help the guy, you save the day, you part ways and you do whatever. Who knows what might be around the corner?Kagim said:
But I've only heard about the "new" WoW from my friends. The WoW where if you're a newb, you suck and therefore you must suffer intolerable hours of grinding just so you can level up and play with the cool kids.
See, I hate that. That's why I don't join WoW. So that sucks for you, buddy. I know it sucks when a game is changed just to fit "everyone's" needs. You know, they start to forget about their loyal fans, about those who were there from the beginning and about what originally made the game fun and instead (At the risk of sounding like a hipster..), they go mainstream.
So I'm sorry about your case. Sounds like I learned about WoW a bit too late.
So does that mean we'll get to see an ACTUAL Warcraft 4? You know, an RTS Warcraft like the last three games before it?
True. One just need to look at SWG. Despite the game well and truly went down the toilet after CU and NGE, there are still people subbing. There will always be people who must be forcefully evicted, I think that to be true for all MMOs.McNinja said: