Would Americans play a game in which the United States is the bad guy?

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

While not super pertinent to this line of thought, I remember a culture survey asked of a whole bunch of gamers online from multiple nationalities, and it was discovered Americans are the least likely to play an evil character/complete bastard. Apparently Australians and French were the most likely to play the part of an unambiguously evil character.

Of course this was merely sentiments on a generic idea of evil. Basically boiling down all qualities to a D&D style alignment chart, and that's been causing fights since character alignment was made ever more stringently important to character builds.

 

[ManutheBloodedge]

I'm neither German or Russian, but I'm always annoyed that Germans in WWII area usually called nazis. Newsflash, most of them weren't.

Wow, nice to seem someone else care about that. I gave up that battle a long time ago. I am just happy if no one is called a Nazi TODAY without reason.

 

[Ryallen]

Seeing as how most of the people I have on Facebook hate the country they reside in, I'd say that it isn't too foreign an idea. But I guess that's not what you're looking for. You're looking for the same kind of evil that most modern shooters depict Germany, Russia, and whatnot as. The problem with that is we've never been on the losing side of a World War. We've most certainly been "Hoo-ah, guns apple pie and MURICA GIMME OIL" and so on, but we've never been known as anything other than just really really excitable. If we DID end up being the bad guys, it would either be over oil or out of fear of whatever the populace thinks is out to get them. And, if I can be completely honest for a second, there's a reason why those people aren't in charge. You'd have to stretch at least MY suspension of disbelief to make me think that someone so stupid as to believe that all foreign countries are out to get us is gonna have enough power to wage war on literally everyone else. Or, at least, someone that ISN'T considered a bad guy, like Britain or even Germany at this point.

 

[Riddle78]

Personally? I'd play the shit out of any game where 'Murica was Grade A evil. Although,I'm Canadian,not American. I'm sick and fucking tired of the whole "America Saves the Day" trope,and every other piece of fiction that thrusts America in the driver's seat. There are countless other nations out there,almost all of them with far fewer black marks on their history. Like Canada,per exemplar.

I'm a little miffed that Canada ALWAYS gets the snub in fiction. We either never exist,or get the shitty end of the stick. Lookin' at you,Fallout.

 

[Jute88]

I'm neither German or Russian, but I'm always annoyed that Germans in WWII area usually called nazis. Newsflash, most of them weren't.

Wow, nice to seem someone else care about that. I gave up that battle a long time ago. I am just happy if no one is called a Nazi TODAY without reason.

It depends which timeframe people talk about. Back then, it meant that you were a member of a certain political party. These days it means you have short hair, anger issues, and your iq is probably lower than your shoe size.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I bet they don't. They live in a culture that teaches them since an early age that 'Murica is the best country and is never wrong and their soldiers are good guys.

I would play the heck out of such game, tho.

...*Cough*

Spoiler

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/2/2a/Fallout2front.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081229142345

A game where the main villain is the remnants of the US government, who kidnap the population of main character's village, the inhabitants of Vault 13, massacre a settlement of peaceful and intelligent Deathclaws, and want to kill all mutants. (Which to them is every single person that isn't them and people in Vaults) I don't recall anyone having a problem with this.

I'm surprised it took so long to bring up Fallout. With the exception of Fallout 3's BoS, all of the US remnants are mustache twirling masters. Perhaps even worse was the actual United States, who only gets a pass in universe because every other government was run by jerks as well.

America does have potential for an enemy in a war game. Huge military, national pride etc. But the game would probably end in a situation where the evil, American leaders are overthrown and peace and love will win the day. How about instead of returning to a status quo (and rebuilding), USA is divided into different areas governed by "the good guys?" Like what happened to Germany after WWII? The possibility for sequels would be great.

The problem there is it really stretches your ability to suspend disbelief. The US as a bad guy? Sure. Beating them on your turf? Tough, but ok. Beating them on their turf? That's... ok, maybe. Actually controlling the US through military force? No fucking way. It's Homefront all over again.

Then again, I was in the US Army, so I guess maybe I have a special perspective. Current events have shown that many militaries, like the Russians, can be taken on by a lesser force and at least hold out for a bit. The US military doesn't work that way when it's all in. You can't take a pot shot at a US soldier (Unless he's a marine) without the world suddenly turning into a Bible story and the sky catching on fire.

Which I guess would be a neat game, but you obviously couldn't be playing as some regular guy for that.

 

[Dalisclock]

Like Bioshock: Infinite?

Both yes and no. On one hand, Columbia is quite the stand-in for American society Obsessed with American Exceptionalism, Worship of the Founding Fathers(except Lincoln, because he ended Slavery), Unrestrained Capitalism, Racism and Interventionist Foreign Policy. And to drive it even more home, their Mascot is Columbia, the old feminine symbol of the US(who has since been replaced by Uncle Sam) who has also been given Angelic Properties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_%28name%29

OTOH, they basically broke away from the US because it wasn't Racist and Interventionist enough(which in the late 19th century is saying something).

To answer the OP, I'd be interesting in playing a game like that, if it were done right. Hell, it's not like they have to make anything up if they play their cards right. Have the game set in a historical scenario where the US acting shitty and the PC is on the opposing side. Any number of CIA operations from the past 60 years could fit the bill.

Just do it right. One of my big issues with the 2nd Battle Royale movie is that about halfway through the film all of a sudden the US shows up and starts bombing for no adequately explained reason. Seriously, I can buy the US doing nasty shit, but at least justify it somehow.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Hell, Modern Warfare 2 alone ends with two British dudes (assisted by a Russian) wiping out an entire American special forces company and then killing its general.

Small nitpick ...

Taskforce 141 was an multinational group, so that doesn't really count. And it was way bigger than a company.

--------------

Though I feel you've left out a really awesome game....

Spycraft: The Great Game deserves a place on the list ... basically if you murder Yuri (a guy you've been working with to get to the bottom of the mystery), who simply wishes to see justice done and arrest both the presidential candidate and his campaign manager due to their transgression against common law, you get a medal and a paid vacation to Fiji.

The ending was kind of bullshit and utterly underwhelming, completely undermining the entire point of the game that was the moral weight that comes with influencing world politics through secret martial actions. Hey, you shot Yuri ... be rwarded with world-fucking-peace and a martini, the World CIA surveillance state is awesome aint it!?

Would have had a far more biting edge to it if it reflected a more President Diem-style reality of what usually happens when you try to instigate regime change. Not necessarily good or bad, just that the means and methods likely lead to something worse happening. But to be fair to the game ... it still does hammer home the point that the pursuit of moral relativism in how a country acts is serious issue.

 

[SirSullymore]

As an American, I would have no problem. But I was never raised with the "best country evar" mentality people seem to think all Americans are raised on, more an "Americans are bad and everybody hates you and you're evil" sense, then again, I live in a more liberal area.

 

[BodomBeachChild]

I feel like I've played dozens of games over the course of 20 years where we are the bad guy, no?

 

[Ryotknife]

Hell, Modern Warfare 2 alone ends with two British dudes (assisted by a Russian) wiping out an entire American special forces company and then killing its general.

Small nitpick ...

Taskforce 141 was an multinational group, so that doesn't really count. And it was way bigger than a company.

--------------

Though I feel you've left out a really awesome game....

Spycraft: The Great Game deserves a place on the list ... basically if you murder Yuri (a guy you've been working with to get to the bottom of the mystery), who simply wishes to see justice done and arrest both the presidential candidate and his campaign manager due to their transgression against common law, you get a medal and a paid vacation to Fiji.

The ending was kind of bullshit and utterly underwhelming, completely undermining the entire point of the game that was the moral weight that comes with influencing world politics through secret military actions. Hey, you shot Yuri ... be rwarded with world-fucking-peace and a martini, the World CIA surveillance state is awesome aint it!?

Would have had a far more biting edge to it if it reflected a more President Diem-style reality of what usually happens when you try to instigate regime change. Not necessarily good or bad, just that the means and methods likely lead to something worse happening. But the ending was like; "Hooray, you commited murder! And the world lived happily ever after under the itchy trigger fingers of CIA assassins everywhere."

I thought Taskforce 141 was wiped out by Sheppard? I actually didnt know it was multinational (sans Soap and Price. Price was kinda drafted into the group and i figured Soap was in it because it was the only non-russian group going after makorov). Multiracial, sure, but i thought it was american.

Truth be told, I have no idea how big a company in the military is, all i know is that Sheppard's troops was called Shadow Company.

 

[Allspice]

Would I play a game with America as the villain? Probably not. Not because I have any real issue with it, I just don't generally play games where that would be relevant. Not a fan of military shooters. Then again, if the Fallout series counts...I have played FO3 and NV and enjoyed them. IDK.

As an American, I would have no problem. But I was never raised with the "best country evar" mentality people seem to think all Americans are raised on, more a "Americans are bad and everybody hates you and you're evil" sense, then again, I live in a more liberal area.

Pretty much this. I don't know anyone who is particularly patriotic.

 

[Erttheking]

I bet they don't. They live in a culture that teaches them since an early age that 'Murica is the best country and is never wrong and their soldiers are good guys.

I would play the heck out of such game, tho.

...*Cough*

Spoiler

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/2/2a/Fallout2front.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081229142345

A game where the main villain is the remnants of the US government, who kidnap the population of main character's village, the inhabitants of Vault 13, massacre a settlement of peaceful and intelligent Deathclaws, and want to kill all mutants. (Which to them is every single person that isn't them and people in Vaults) I don't recall anyone having a problem with this.

Well, to be fair, national identity looses some relevance after the nuclear apocalypse. I think what the OP meant where games in the style of Call of Duty from the viewpoint of a nation that faces America as an enemy. You know, fullfilling heroics while shooting american soilders en masse and ending the game with defeating Obama in his star-spangled bald-eagle mech. You have to admit, this kind of game is missing. If that is a good or bad thing is something everyone has to decide for themselves...

Does a game where you spend a good part of the game killing US Marines count? If so I think a have something.

Spoiler

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fa/Half-Life_Cover_Art.jpg

 

[TheMigrantSoldier]

So, Metal Gear Solid?

Didn't bother me when I played it.

And for all peoples' whining about them, the Modern Warfare games aren't really all that "pro-American". They glamorize military prowess but not much else.

 

[MCerberus]

In one of the CoD games doesn't a coalition rise against the nation with a history of war-crazy madmen who have put superweapons in space (which in itself is an act of war against everyone, as per the UN and various treaties) while the promotional material had an American wax about some fascist ideals? Of course you play as one of them.

You know, I think there's about 2 writers at Activision that are subverting the Ameriwank.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Hell, Modern Warfare 2 alone ends with two British dudes (assisted by a Russian) wiping out an entire American special forces company and then killing its general.

Small nitpick ...

Taskforce 141 was an multinational group, so that doesn't really count. And it was way bigger than a company.

--------------

Though I feel you've left out a really awesome game....

Spycraft: The Great Game deserves a place on the list ... basically if you murder Yuri (a guy you've been working with to get to the bottom of the mystery), who simply wishes to see justice done and arrest both the presidential candidate and his campaign manager due to their transgression against common law, you get a medal and a paid vacation to Fiji.

The ending was kind of bullshit and utterly underwhelming, completely undermining the entire point of the game that was the moral weight that comes with influencing world politics through secret military actions. Hey, you shot Yuri ... be rwarded with world-fucking-peace and a martini, the World CIA surveillance state is awesome aint it!?

Would have had a far more biting edge to it if it reflected a more President Diem-style reality of what usually happens when you try to instigate regime change. Not necessarily good or bad, just that the means and methods likely lead to something worse happening. But the ending was like; "Hooray, you commited murder! And the world lived happily ever after under the itchy trigger fingers of CIA assassins everywhere."

I thought Taskforce 141 was wiped out by Sheppard? I actually didnt know it was multinational (sans Soap and Price. Price was kinda drafted into the group and i figured Soap was in it because it was the only non-russian group going after makorov). Multiracial, sure, but i thought it was american.

Truth be told, I have no idea how big a company in the military is, all i know is that Sheppard's troops was called Shadow Company.

It's not uncommon for writers to either make a mistake, or simply not care, when it comes to unit sizes or names. There's a tendancy to just roll with what sounds cool or right. Battalion (It has the word battle in it! Kind of...) and company are sexy; Regiment and Brigade are old fashioned; Division is kind of just there; Army is nebulous (There's a difference between An army and The Army).

There's also the problem that not every military has exactly the same size, or even units within a military. So don't feel too bad, this is one of those things everyone is in the dark about for the most part.

 

[CaitSeith]

Probably if the protagonist is an American and the US army was acting in an un-american way. That probably would kill the purpose though.

 

[happyninja42]

Seeing as I don't really play shooters much, I probably wouldn't play it, but not because of some loyalty to Murica. Despite what some people in this thread have said, we don't all agree that Murica is the best ever, and that our soldiers are avenging angels. That mindset is mostly reserved for the Conservatie Right in most cases, people less inclined to play video games.
If the game was made well, and portrayed the US as an enemy in a way that makes sense, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But if it's just for a "Fuck Murica" kind of rationale, then I'd pass.

 

[Gorrath]

German here. Am I tired of the portrayal of my country? Not really, but...
Well, I have no problem with any games where the Nazis are evil, because they were. That is not misrepresentation. I understand why they pop up so much in media (clear and easily identifiable enemy), and I have no problem with historic or Sci-Fi settings with Nazis in them.
What I have a slight problem with is the connotation of Germany and Nazis without context that is sometimes found in media. This normally manifests as german = evil in some subtle or nor so subtle ways. In most Hollywood flicks, the bad guys drive german cars, for example. And while that is not particulary harmful (really, it is rather amusing when you start noticing it), there are worse cases out there. Like the ONE person in the whole Star Wars galaxy I ever heard speaking with a german accent: an evil scientist who delevolped a deadly virus, not out of necessity of war, but because he liked doing so appearantly. In a show marketed towards kids. Developing and using chemical weapons wasn't even a german thing historically, the japanese did that! ...Sorry, pet peeve.
Interestingly, another example comes from the japanese. In the Senran Kagura games, one of the characters has german names for her special move weapons. One of these is called "Wolfsschanze". This was the mountain fortress Hitler and his generals planned most of the second world war in once it had started. I get that this was probably not intentional and they just wanted cool sounding names, but that is another problem in and of itself: Don't use a word if you don't really now what it means. ...Sorry again, pet peeve number two. But yeah, I found this one instance in the game problematic, not the fact that you can dress various "underage" girls down to their underwear.

So in short, saying that the germans were Nazis once is not a big deal. Connotating Germany with Nazis even today, especially without context, rustles my jimmies.

The thing that would make America a great villain in a game is that not only would an invading american army pose an immediate threat, it would be believable. Maybe you remember some of the stunts CoD and Battlefield pulled to make America a dangered and wounded country in their games. None of that here. America invades, boom, you have a mighty big problem, no matter where on the globe you are. America would be another easy villain if it was used, because just like the Nazis, everyone can tell you why America would be dangerous and had to be stopped. They spend more money on their military than some other countries make, so of course they are going to be a threat.

If I may, as someone who is an American and who was born in and lived in Deutschland for a fair few years, we tend to think of modern Germans as being pretty awesome. To many Americans that I've known, Germans have a similar sort of national spirit as Americans and a great number of us are descended from German immigrants. Though we are a nation who has strong English roots, most of the country's land mass was settled by Germans. But that's just an overview of how many Americans feel about Deutschland on the whole.

As to media, I certainly get your gripes but I don't think the bad guy driving German cars is meant to be a shot at Germany. We tend to see German and Italian cars as both exotic and a sign of wealth, which is why the uber-rich mastermind bad guys always drive those. It's not that the car is German specifically. It says more about what we think about German made vehicles than it does about Germans themselves.

We really only connote modern Germans with Nazis in the rare case that we imply there might still be some Germans who support the ideology. While that's pretty far fetched with relation to the government certainly, it's also not entirely untrue. I was in more physical danger from the skinhead gangs in the area where I lived than I was the Turks, and I look German and have a German (based) last name.

OT: As others have pointed out, America is not rarely the bad guy in games but it is true that the protagonist is often American to make up for this. I'd be interested to play a game where I played as a foreign national fighting against an American PMC. I would probably be far less interested in a, "Kill the evil Americans because Americans are evil imperialists" simulator.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I thought Taskforce 141 was wiped out by Sheppard? I actually didnt know it was multinational (sans Soap and Price. Price was kinda drafted into the group and i figured Soap was in it because it was the only non-russian group going after makorov). Multiracial, sure, but i thought it was american.

Truth be told, I have no idea how big a company in the military is, all i know is that Sheppard's troops was called Shadow Company.

Nah, if I remember correctly it was soldiers drawn basically from the entire anglosphere. Videogame logic. As for the notion of company, well ... the exact numbers of what comprises a company vary depending on nation and branch, but the numbers you see/chew through during the jailbreak, the airport, and through the final level suggest nothing smaller than a battalion ... though, once again ... videogame logic.