Would Americans play a game in which the United States is the bad guy?

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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ZinWolfe said:
I'm an American and I would gladly play a game where the United States is the bad guy (note, you could just make a WWII game from the viewpoint of a German soldier). Also, I'm not getting where "Americans are taught they are the best" thing is coming from. When I was in grade school we were taught that we were no better or worse than any other country, just that we should consider ourselves lucky to be in a country that has an plenty of food and water. Second, in America today students are taught that either the US Government is evil or that Americans are bad people. So given that, a game in which the Americans are the bad guys would probably do really well here.
Every nation is taught they are best. Even North Koreans are taught they are best. This isn't a nation-specific occurrence. It's national pride that is common to most developed nations where there is enough funding to teach kids in school anything.

I wouldn't say that we're taught we are best. We are taught that we have the strongest military and the most wealth. But we are also taught about how empires rise and fall. Would people ***** about how Rome thought they were "the best" in 100 a.c.e? No. They were the top tier nation at the time. That IS America right now for better or worse. Will probably be China next depending on how they handle a few things. Though if the US ever figures out its debt problem then they could be locked together for a couple centuries, neck and neck.
 

springheeljack

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I'm sure Spec Ops the line has been mentioned before but if you are looking for a shooter where Americans are the bad guys then Spec Ops is the game for you! Basically you spend most of the time fighting rouge US military forces led by an annoying radio guy who plays rockin' jams while wondering if you might be a secret bad guy.
 

McElroy

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WinterWyvern said:
McElroy said:
On this I completely agree with you. I despise the Finnish language getting more and more English influences that won't get translations. I really wish they'd fine whatever publication lets their people speak or write (thank goodness this is still very rare) that way. Though of course the fault lies mainly here. Nobody officially translated Angry Birds or Clash of Clans for example. Most American blockbusters go untranslated nowadays. The title is in Finnish usually only if they're based on a book.

I'm just sad that it looks like the predictions are coming true and Finnish will be reduced to a pidgin in a couple of generations. Damn globalization.

I feel for you. I share the same sentiments.

We can try to cheer ourselves up by thinking that the disappearing of languages is something that has always happened throughout history. Globalization only made it faster.
This is off-track, I'm sorry and I'll end it here but I just have to add. I went to see a movie today and I saw a couple of trailers. First off the one to X-Men: Apocalypse and while I know they are pressed to subtitle these trailers super quickly "X-men" ("you will become X-men" or something like that) was translated with a double plural to "X-menej?" (basically "X-mens"). That's just utterly broken! The other trailer was for Angry Birds which will be out in two weeks. It wasn't only a shit trailer, but it was the English one! Angry Birds is the biggest thing here after ice-hockey (since Nokia isn't big anymore) and they don't bother editing a trailer with the dub in it? C'mon! They still might, but it wasn't there today.

If Europe was a classroom, Finland would be the small weird kid sitting in the corner speaking to himself in a language only his little brother understands, looking out of the window.
 

irish286

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WinterWyvern said:
You do.
Well not you specifically, but America as a culture is pretty much built on celebrating war and soldiers.

"Starship Troopers" is a movie that satirizes that side of American culture.

America regularly worships their soldiers as heroes sacrificing to defend their country. In Italy, we mock and berate soldiers because they kill other people.

As I mentioned, if you grew up in American culture you can't understand how it's like.

Us Europeans have seen and done wars for long, LONG time. We're tired of it. Americans are still new to this whole war thing, plus they won in their first attempts, so it's reasonable that their culture celebrates it.
No, we don't celebrate war. We recognize it as an inevitable evil. That is why we prepare for it. That is why we celebrate our soldiers. Those willing to get their hands dirty defending us from those that want to do us harm.
Also, I find the fact that you mock and berate those that defend you disgusting. Anyone who would mock those that dedicate their lives to the defense of their nation don't deserve the protections that nation offers.
 

FillerDmon

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This -really- should have had a poll so we could have seen how many non-Americans think we'd not be willing to fight America, and likewise see if we could get results on the actual question.

For the record, American, with a shaky relationship with America. The idea of Hillary or Trump becoming president makes me want to move to Canada. Except I don't have enough money for it. T_T

And yeah, there should be more games in which America's the bad guys. Let the British be the player characters or something. Or the Japanese. Or hell, Canada. Why not.

Just that the bulk of the unaware sheeple (and I know that sounds as if I don't count myself among the masses; I just figured most people on the internet in more serious circles are better at educating themselves about how this country is shit than those who wistfully think anyone with a hint of color is a lazy homeless bastard or a terrorist. Seriously, some of those stories are absolutely terrifying.) would never buy a game like that, and so a game developer might be willing to go against the desires of the masses.
 

Ravenbom

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While the Command and Conquer games never had a faction that was clearly the US, they did have factions that were basically the US.
In Red Alert I almost never played as the Allies but that was a for a gameplay reason: the Soviets had nukes and Tesla towers and later Tesla Tanks.



I get what OP is implying; we don't usually see ourselves as the "bad guys".

To that I would present Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump.
Why? Because those are the last two people who should be president and our trust in our own government is so low that crazy fuckers like Trump and Svengali's like Clinton are the presidential front-runners for their parties.

I don't think people really see the government or the people in charge of America today as the good guys anymore. I think if somebody re-skinned Hatred to be current politicians it would become immensely popular.
 

Allspice

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WinterWyvern said:
You do.
Well not you specifically, but America as a culture is pretty much built on celebrating war and soldiers.

"Starship Troopers" is a movie that satirizes that side of American culture.

America regularly worships their soldiers as heroes sacrificing to defend their country. In Italy, we mock and berate soldiers because they kill other people.

As I mentioned, if you grew up in American culture you can't understand how it's like.

Us Europeans have seen and done wars for long, LONG time. We're tired of it. Americans are still new to this whole war thing, plus they won in their first attempts, so it's reasonable that their culture celebrates it.
You didn't grow up in America so how can you understand what that is like? Why do you think you know our thoughts and feelings better than the people who live here? You have actual Americans telling you we don't celebrate war, please don't cling to the misconception that we do.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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I would go with no because when i saw games like these being made they often ended in contraversy and going as far as the backlash bullying publishers out of releasing the game.

As far as portrayal, I live in territory that was part of the Soviet Union and currently borders Russia. No, i dont get tired of showing them as bad guys, they are bad guys and should be shown as such. That being said i would like to see a game that portrays US as bad guys as well.

Smygskytt said:
I so wish that East vs West would have been completed. Just look at the trailer, I want it. It was supposed to be a strategy game were you could play any nation during the cold war, and you would've even been able to unleash nuclear armageddon.
If thats your horse you should look into Darkest Hour, a stand-alone released mod for Hearts of Iron 2 that spans thtough WW2 into a cold war or you can just pick a cold war start scenario and actually play with any country. They tried to stay as historic as they could.

springheeljack said:
I'm sure Spec Ops the line has been mentioned before but if you are looking for a shooter where Americans are the bad guys then Spec Ops is the game for you! Basically you spend most of the time fighting rouge US military forces led by an annoying radio guy who plays rockin' jams while wondering if you might be a secret bad guy.
Quote the contrary, YOU are a rogue American agent and YOU are the bad guy killing actual peacekeeper troops and locals alike.
 

Smygskytt

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Strazdas said:
If thats your horse you should look into Darkest Hour, a stand-alone released mod for Hearts of Iron 2 that spans thtough WW2 into a cold war or you can just pick a cold war start scenario and actually play with any country. They tried to stay as historic as they could.
How intuitive are the older Hearts of Iron games? I have to admit that I have only really played CK2 past the 200h tutorial phase. I've not touched another Paradox game besides EU4; and that was less fun and a very diferent beast than CK2 though. I have high hopes for Hoi 4 and that is what I am waiting for at the moment.
 

Strazdas

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Smygskytt said:
How intuitive are the older Hearts of Iron games? I have to admit that I have only really played CK2 past the 200h tutorial phase. I've not touched another Paradox game besides EU4; and that was less fun and a very diferent beast than CK2 though. I have high hopes for Hoi 4 and that is what I am waiting for at the moment.
Not intuitive. Even after you learn how its played. Though you played CK2 so you are familiar with the layout Paradox uses so thats a start. There is a Lets play where Developers play the game [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL672001FC77FF4D9B]. Theres also the brilliant AAR made as a tutorial [https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-the-heck-do-you-play-this-game-a-simple-tutorial-aar.378841/] in their forums which is how i personally learned the game.

Also dont even bother with in-game tutorial, it is flat out broken by a balancing patch and impossible to complete in some cases. they never bothered to fix the tutorial. I learned this the hard way :(
 

Smygskytt

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Strazdas said:
Not intuitive. Even after you learn how its played. Though you played CK2 so you are familiar with the layout Paradox uses so thats a start. There is a Lets play where Developers play the game [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL672001FC77FF4D9B]. Theres also the brilliant AAR made as a tutorial [https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-the-heck-do-you-play-this-game-a-simple-tutorial-aar.378841/] in their forums which is how i personally learned the game.

Also dont even bother with in-game tutorial, it is flat out broken by a balancing patch and impossible to complete in some cases. they never bothered to fix the tutorial. I learned this the hard way :(
Oh, thanks for the heads up then. I guess the game is at the same level as Dwarf Fortress then, but I won't be checking it out at this time yet. I'll probably take a close look at it after I'm familiar with Hearts of Iron 4. That'd also mean that I'd know the basics of the series and it'd thus make it a lot less dense.
 

Tilly

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The Enquirer said:
All the Imperial officers in Star Wars?
There was always that massive continuity error where they never explained why exactly the empire hired loads of British people between episodes 3 and 4. And how they all managed to work their way up to high management positions.
 

The Enquirer

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Tilly said:
The Enquirer said:
All the Imperial officers in Star Wars?
There was always that massive continuity error where they never explained why exactly the empire hired loads of British people between episodes 3 and 4. And how they all managed to work their way up to high management positions.
Maybe all the low level guys are Scottish and Irish but you can't tell because of the helmets.
 

Link55

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I live in America and i can say that our culturedoes eemphasize that we are the best and nothing can stop us which i don't believe and find it bullshit, but personally i would lay that game cause after all it's just a game fiction just a story it's not like treason.
 

irish286

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WinterWyvern said:
irish286 said:
WinterWyvern said:
You do.
Well not you specifically, but America as a culture is pretty much built on celebrating war and soldiers.

"Starship Troopers" is a movie that satirizes that side of American culture.

America regularly worships their soldiers as heroes sacrificing to defend their country. In Italy, we mock and berate soldiers because they kill other people.

As I mentioned, if you grew up in American culture you can't understand how it's like.

Us Europeans have seen and done wars for long, LONG time. We're tired of it. Americans are still new to this whole war thing, plus they won in their first attempts, so it's reasonable that their culture celebrates it.
No, we don't celebrate war. We recognize it as an inevitable evil. That is why we prepare for it. That is why we celebrate our soldiers. Those willing to get their hands dirty defending us from those that want to do us harm.
Also, I find the fact that you mock and berate those that defend you disgusting. Anyone who would mock those that dedicate their lives to the defense of their nation don't deserve the protections that nation offers.

Your reply is the perfect essence of American mindset.

Here's the European mindset: we do NOT think war is inevitable. We do NOT celebrate soldiers, we pity them and their deaths. We do NOT believe the lie that war is about defending from those who want to do us harm because we know that by the final stadium of a war there no longer is a good guy and a bad guy.

One day, America will become old and will have seen as many wars as Europe did, and then maybe you'll understand why war is NOT necessary and why we should NOT celebrate those who go to war (pushing people to become soldiers).
That is a very ignorant view of the world. War is inevitable. You may not like that fact but that is the fact. Instead of believing in the truth you believe in the lie that your words protect you instead of the soldiers you insult. If that was true the Chinese wouldn't have needed that wall to keep out the mongols. Also, Mocking and berating soldiers as you claim you do, is not pitying them. It's denigrating them. And what I said before still stands on that subject. It's not that you got wiser. It's that you now have the US to defend you. So your soldiers aren't as important as they once were.
 

CannibalCorpses

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Aug 21, 2011
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I'm up for some more realism in games and Britain and America are the fucking worst scum of the earth when it comes to starting wars and murdering people and causing governments to fall etc. I'm English for the record :p
 

irish286

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Mar 17, 2012
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Except I'm not wrong and history has proven me right. It's not that war must exist, but that is DOES exist. Denying this fact is a rejection of reality and something no one should do. I don't really care who you make heroes of but making villains out of the people who defend you is wrong and you know it.
Also, my definition of fascist must be different than yours because to us you've been electing them for years.