Would the Death Star affect a planet's tides?

[snekadid]

As people have said - the actual mass of the Death Star is crucial. It's big, but also hollow, and we don't know how dense the materials it's made from are.

It also depends on how far away from a planet it is. Gravitational pull diminishes at (roughly) the square of the distance a body is from another, so it would need to be good and close.

Lastly, it would also matter if it was orbiting around the planet or stably hovering over a fixed point. Tides are caused by the moon travelling over the surface of the planet, pulling water with it slightly. This wouldn't happen if it was above the same point in the sky all the time. In that case, initially the death star would draw water to it when it arrived over a planet, but after that water levels wouldn't change.

You're forgetting that the Death Star has to be moving since the planet is constantly moving, not just revolving but rotating around the systems sun. Even if the Death Star was able to hold perfect relative position to the planet while it Rotated, for your scenario to work it would also have to perfectly orbit at the same rate and position that the planet revolves to have that effect on the waves.

In all likely hood the water would rise as the area closest to the DS passed in sight of it and then settle as it revolved away, the degree of which would of course be reliant on the previously mentioned mass and density.

captcha: i'm blushing, THE CAPTCHA! IT LIES!!!!!

 

[BeeGeenie]

No. 'cause it got blowed up. *ba-dum tish*

but if it hadn't been blown up, then yes, it would have exerted a small gravitational force on any planet it got close to. Whether it would have been noticeable? Probably not. It depends how close it is, and by the time it got close enough, the planet in question might not be there anymore.

 

[dvd_72]

It all depends on the mass of the death star. Despite it being smaller than our current moon (as was mentioned here) it would be made of primarily metal. Primarily hollow metal, so I'm not sure how these factors would balance out. Best I can do for you is that it is possible. sorry.

 

[artanis_neravar]

snip

It did have a strong enough gravitational pull to draw the Executor into it.

Actually, no. The Executor spun out of control and DOVE into the SECOND Death Star, which was over twice the size of the first Death Star. The Executor was in no position to "Fall" into the Death Star, as it was actually cruising no where near the Death Star while engaging the rebels. The whole point of the Imperial fleet was to draw the rebels AWAY from the Death Star to lure them into it's engagement envelope. The Death Star has a range of 3 Million Kilometers. If the ships are 20 feet away, it won't be able to target them. It needed the space to crush the rebel capital ships. Executor went what we on the navigation team call NUC, Not Under Command. Usually, vessels NUC end up running aground, whether their engines are unable to be stopped, pushing them onto shoal waters, the helm is not responsive, causing them to travel in generally whatever direction the motors and rudder are steering when you lose command, or the engines die and the water pushes them aground. That is all that happened. She lost helm control and "Ran Aground" on the Death Star.

They shouldn't have any engines on, they were (Edit)not accelerating, and with no friction or wind resistance in space they would not require engines to keep them at a constant velocity, in fact it is require for them to not have their engines on to maintain a constant velocity.

 

[Darth Sea Bass]

I would imagine the death star would have to maintain a fairly large distance from a planet to avoid damage from the planet exploding. I mean if it's close enough to theoretically effect tides it's gotta be close enough to be caught in the blast?

 

[shrekfan246]

Everything that needs to be said has been said. The keyword here is Mass.

Ooh, ooh, I know this one. 'Effect', right?

OT: I don't think I have anything to add that hasn't already been said. I've never really looked up information about the Death Star.

 

[Spade Lead]

They shouldn't have any engines on, they were (Edit)not accelerating, and with no friction or wind resistance in space they would not require engines to keep them at a constant velocity, in fact it is require for them to not have their engines on to maintain a constant velocity.

Really? You want an 8 mile long ship to just SIT THERE AND GET SHOT AT once the battle got serious? Maneuvering is the SINGLE most important aspect of any naval combat. Frontal assault, strategic withdrawal, broadside, "crossing the T," (which is a broadside delivered from the frontal fire-arc of the opponent, where you can hit him with upwards of twice the weapons he can train on you)then there is space-combat maneuvers like rolling the ship to present undamaged shields or protect landing bays while launching fighters, etc. Now, yes. In real life, Executor would never had reason to maneuver in such a way that it could crash, because after all, they were well over 150 kilometers from the Death Star, but George Lucas wanted to make a big fiery end-spectacle, and having the two biggest ships in the fight collide did just that. Of course, there is no way in HELL that piddly Rebel fleet, outgunned 15:1 just by Executor herself could have beaten her shields down, much less destroyed her.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

I hate Star Wars, but I do like science problems, so here we go:

It depends on the mass of the object, and if the gravitational pull created by that mass is nominal compared to the bodies that surround it. Going from what Blue_vision said, then it does not appear that the Death Star would have mass high enough to directly influence Earth's tides.

This is because of its nominal mass compared to the moon and earth, and that its density is greatly diminished because it lacks a solid rock core like the moon, or molten core like the Earth.

However, in order to adjust the tides of the Earth, all one would have to do is subtly change the orbit of the Moon, which is plausible even with something as small as the Death Star. Placing the Death Star at one of the Solar Lagrange Points would not do much, but balancing it at a Lunar Lagrange point could possibly alter the course of the moon's orbit slightly.

Unless you intended to destroy the earth or the moon entirely, you would have to move the Death Star away quickly, though. As the relationship between the three bodies could become literally chaotic, and thus unpredictable.

Though, in order to have a chaotic three-body occurrence, the smallest of the bodies would have to illicit some gravitational effect on the largest body, in this case the Earth. So, I doubt that is likely.

The equations for specific answers do exist. In fact, they were created in the 18th century by a man named Joseph Lagrange, for whom the Lagrange points are named. But without a real mass available for the Death Star, they are unworkable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Louis_Lagrange

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Death Star 1 was 160 KM in Diameter, but it was still essentially a honeycomb structure. Far less mass than a true moon, so it would have some effects, but not enough to cause a severe shift.

Death Star 2 was 900KM in Diameter, but again, honeycomb style, plus the majority of its superstructure wasn't finished when it was destroyed.

To put it in a simple comparison: The Moon is a Shot Put, The Death Star is a Wiffle Ball

 

[artanis_neravar]

They shouldn't have any engines on, they were (Edit)not accelerating, and with no friction or wind resistance in space they would not require engines to keep them at a constant velocity, in fact it is require for them to not have their engines on to maintain a constant velocity.

Really? You want an 8 mile long ship to just SIT THERE AND GET SHOT AT once the battle got serious? Maneuvering is the SINGLE most important aspect of any naval combat. Frontal assault, strategic withdrawal, broadside, "crossing the T," (which is a broadside delivered from the frontal fire-arc of the opponent, where you can hit him with upwards of twice the weapons he can train on you)then there is space-combat maneuvers like rolling the ship to present undamaged shields or protect landing bays while launching fighters, etc. Now, yes. In real life, Executor would never had reason to maneuver in such a way that it could crash, because after all, they were well over 150 kilometers from the Death Star, but George Lucas wanted to make a big fiery end-spectacle, and having the two biggest ships in the fight collide did just that. Of course, there is no way in HELL that piddly Rebel fleet, outgunned 15:1 just by Executor herself could have beaten her shields down, much less destroyed her.

With 5,000 different laser and Ion cannon batteries on board and it's large compliment of various TIEs, yes I would expect it to more or less sit there and take the fire, because it's shields could take the fire. The TIEs should have been doing their job and preventing the rebel fighters from hitting their shield generators. It would also take a large amount of power to maneuver a ship that size properly. Other than that you are right it should never have collided with the Death Star because it was never that close.

And personally I would have ordered one of my ships to plot a hyperspace route through the Executor to take it out of the battle almost immediately.

EDIT: Assuming they had no Interdictor class cruisers there

 

[direkiller]

The Death Star is apparently about 160 km in diameter. This is compared to the Earth's moon's diameter of 1,700 km. So, the moon has over 100 times the volume.

minor math note it's 1000x there spheres you have to cube the numbers

pi*160/2^3=1608494(1,600,000 aprox)
pi*850^3=1929328958(1,900,000,000 aprox)
so about 1200bigger

 

[Spade Lead]

And personally I would have ordered one of my ships to plot a hyperspace route through the Executor to take it out of the battle almost immediately.

EDIT: Assuming they had no Interdictor class cruisers there

In the movie, they don't show one, but they only ever show two Mon Cal Cruisers, against a KNOWN 24 Imperator class Star Destroyers, so, you know, whatever...

There is of course, only one OTHER problem with that plan... In the comic that first introduced the Super Star Destroyer, THREE Star Destroyers came out of Hyperspace into Executor all without even dropping her shields. It depends on how you define canon. I say, since George won't make 7,8,9, you HAVE to count the EU as canon. Which, again, means the Rebels never should have put a scratch on her.

Then again, Executor is my favorite spaceship of all time, so maybe I am just biased...

 

[GundamSentinel]

Depends on how near it is, but I don't think it would have a big effect. If it were a moon, it wouldn't be a particularly large one (as others have said, the DS2 is not even 0.1% the volume of our own moon). Also, if the schematics are to be believed, most of it is empty space, so it doesn't have a lot of mass, so not a lot of gravity. It might affect the tides, but not by very much, probably not even noticable.

 

[w9496]

Blowing the planet apart would likely affect the tides, yes.

Thats what I was thinking when I saw the thread title. "What the hell kind of question is that?".

OT: I would assume it would if it was close enough. I don't remember for sure, but I thought the Death Star had a lot of empty space, so it wouldn't have as much mass as a moon, which means its effects would be limited.

 

[The Heik]

Alright all you science-inclined Escapists, I have a question that I've been rattling around in my mind for a while.

In the Star Wars movies the Death Star is supposed to be big. Really, really big. Big enough that it could be mistaken for a moon when it's near a planet. But when I thought about this, a rather interesting question sprang to mind: if the Death Star is large enough to be mistaken for a moon, would it affect the tides of a planet when it came close to it? I realize that tides are normally caused by the moon, so would the addition of a moon-sized object so close to a planet cause the normal patterns to get screwed up? Or would it be either too small or too far away to make a difference?

Well considering that the Death Star is only 160 km at it's largest size, I'd hazard a guess that whatever effect it would have on the tides of a planet it was orbiting would be negligible if there's any at all.

However I'm not a scientist, so I'd agree with McMullen, send it to xkcd's what if section. could be an interesting subject for him to cover.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

If it got close to another planet then its gravitational pull would effect it, like how the moon effects our planet.

 

[Byere]

I believe before any mass that large has a strong enough gravitic field, it must have a dense core. Being a space station, the closest thing to a core it has is the main power engine and that wouldn't be all that dense in the same sense of the dense core of a planet.

Secondly, as already stated, the Death Star doesn't actually go into the orbit of the planet, it stays a fair distance before firing... probably so it doesn't get caught in the resulting explosion/debris.

 

[artanis_neravar]

And personally I would have ordered one of my ships to plot a hyperspace route through the Executor to take it out of the battle almost immediately.

EDIT: Assuming they had no Interdictor class cruisers there

In the movie, they don't show one, but they only ever show two Mon Cal Cruisers, against a KNOWN 24 Imperator class Star Destroyers, so, you know, whatever...

There is of course, only one OTHER problem with that plan... In the comic that first introduced the Super Star Destroyer, THREE Star Destroyers came out of Hyperspace into Executor all without even dropping her shields. It depends on how you define canon. I say, since George won't make 7,8,9, you HAVE to count the EU as canon. Which, again, means the Rebels never should have put a scratch on her.

Then again, Executor is my favorite spaceship of all time, so maybe I am just biased...

I usually do count the EU as canon, however I never read that comic, and I disapprove of the physics (a ship going from FTL to almost 0 would have such a force behind it it would tear apart a planet) While the shield are capable of defending against meteor collisions they shouldn't be able to survive that amount of force. That being said I do agree the Executor is the best ship in Star Wars canon. I absolutely despise the Eclipse and that stupid cattle catcher it's sporting. My favorite class of ship however in the Interdictor class Star Destroyer, if I could make a Executor-class capitol ship with Interdictor capabilities I would love it.

EDIT: Just using the cargo mass of a Imperial II Class Star Destroyer that would be 10 Quadrillion (10^15 or 10,000,000,000,000,000) Newtons of force

 

[Spade Lead]

I usually do count the EU as canon, however I never read that comic, and I disapprove of the physics (a ship going from FTL to almost 0 would have such a force behind it it would tear apart a planet) While the shield are capable of defending against meteor collisions they shouldn't be able to survive that amount of force. That being said I do agree the Executor is the best ship in Star Wars canon. I absolutely despise the Eclipse and that stupid cattle catcher it's sporting. My favorite class of ship however in the Interdictor class Star Destroyer, if I could make a Executor-class capitol ship with Interdictor capabilities I would love it.

The Interdictor Star Destroyer gives up half it's firepower for those grav-projectors. The "Republic Assault Cruiser" is a broader Imperator class base design, with internal Gravity projectors, so you actually gain firepower.

But all true Star Wars Nerds have their own ships. My Executor class Star Destroyers are 21 kilometers(a Gold-plated Super Star Destroyer named Vainglorious Death) and 3 19 Kilometer long ships of the same design. Then there is my Peregrine/Intrepid Fleet Carrier/Cruiser that I designed on a modular hull. All ships have internal gravity projectors.

Now, the dimensions are absolutely to scale with these diagrams, so enjoy.

Spoiler: This is How a Sith Does Cost-Effective

70 Years after the fall of the Galactic Alliance

Darth Mobius stood with his back to the crowd, Ten of the finest Sith Alchemists to ever graduate from the Sith Science Academy on the neutral Sith world of Korriban.

The first ship of the Peregrine class was assembled, lacking only the internal components to pass power throughout the ship, and, of course, the reactor.

The shipyard Commander, a tall Ansionian with over-large eyes and only one nostril, looked skeptical, and a little worried, because the beauty of the ship was... Well, who could think a plywood ship would ever be pretty. Why the 2 kilometer long vessel was built out of two meter thick plywood was not known to him, and more importantly, made him believe that the Sith Lord, Darth Mobius, had gone completely insane. Of course, if the rumors were true... Well, if they were, the kindly and benevolent Sith Lord was anything but.

The ship was finished, and the construction crew had finally dragged every piece of equipment that wasn't part of the ship off the completed hull.

With a smile, Darth Mobius closed his eyes and began an incantation, pointing at the ship, gesticulating, and then repeating the gesture after a short pause. After about thirty seconds, he made a last gesture at the ship, and suddenly it was invisible. The Commander's jaw dropped, and he couldn't believe his eyes.

"Commander Erlichii, How much did the prototype cost?"

"1 Million Credits, give or take a few thousand in upgrades and adjustments."

"And for that one?" He gestured to the now empty slip.

Commander Erlichi coughed to himself, even more afraid to draw attention to the fact that the ship didn't appear to be there any longer. "I would say, including the reactor, which wasn't installed, just over seven thousand credits, but Lord..." He cut himself off, wondering why the Lord would want a fleet of plywood warships.

As an Ansionian, he believed in Peace above all else, but while Darth Mobius' "Peace through Strength" attitude had always seemed the best route, he just couldn't see how wooden warships would stand up to the rigors of space travel, much less space warfare.

Darth Mobius answered his unspoken question "You will see, now" he turned to the Alchemists, "did you ten see what I did to it?"

The ten Sith Alchemists behind him nodded and said, "Yes Lord," as if nothing unusual had happened.

"Very well, now, since this will be in my personal fleet, I want to customize it a bit, you will, instead of the gold Layer, put a color that is specifically designated to you based on the ship's intended use. Now, I do intend you to do the first 3 ships in gold. Each."

This drew a gasp from the commander, for this meant 30 carriers, each carrying Twenty Thousand bombers, and roughly half as many fighters.

And that was just for Lord Mobius' personal escort fleet. The fleet would have thirty times that much, with just two carriers assigned to each planet in the Sith Democratic Protectorate. There would also be the Ten fleets that randomly jumped around the perimeter of the Protectorate to ensure border security. A total of nearly 1,000 ships of just this one class.

His mind having wandered, he was surprised to note that Darth Mobius had turned back to the ship and began chanting an incantation again. Suddenly the empty berth had a solid gold ship, exactly the same as the plywood structure, but with a greasy, oily, sheen to the hull.

"Commander, the ship now has all computer and control emplacements installed, and she is ready for her maiden voyage, are the five specialists I asked for ready to board?"

"Yes Lord. What are they to do?"

"That is the command crew. They will be taking her out for a shakedown run, then, if all goes well, picking up the maintenance and hangar crew, and begin their first patrol."

The Commander was in shock. A five person crew? On a ship that large? How was it even possible? The wonders of the Sith Leader's mind never failed to amaze him.

"How long until the next ship comes off the line?"

"We are averaging about five hours between keels, and an average build time of seven days, with the staff we have currently. the next ship is scheduled off the line in..." He glanced at his chrono," About 12 hours. There are no delays, so we should be fully online in about two hours, once that ship is out of that berthing."

"How many berthings are there in use for this project?"

"Thirty, as you requested."

The Sith Lord turned to the ten Alchemists. "You all have seen what I did, and I showed you how the incantations work. You know your responsibilities, please, take some time to yourself while we await the next ship's completion. Dismissed."

The ten Alchemists turned and departed, while Darth Mobius turned to the shipyard Commander and said, "I have a special request of you. I have this idea for a command ship floating in my head, and I really think we need to build it soon."

 

[Acton Hank]

I know that what I'm about to say will inevitably make me sound like an asshole; and for that I apologize in advance, but do people really give a fuck about details like this?