would you ever become vegan?

[SsilverR]

I laugh at veganism. Here's why:

1. You can go vegetarian just fine and purchase only organic and free range dairy and egg products. You know, the type of stuff that is a bit more expensive but guarantees ethical treatment of animals. This method is just as expensive as going full vegan, but is less potentially dangerous.
2. By going full vegan, you are still contributing to the destruction of natural environments to expand farmland, and pollution by the use of fertilizers (yes, even "organic" fertilizers).
3. Vegans who suggest that they choose they're diet because they are unwilling to take life frankly just don't understand basic biology. Humans are by nature Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary consumers, (i.e. We Primary prducers, plants; primary consumers, anything with a plant diet; and secondary consumers, anything with a meat based diet. Further, plants are still a form of life, so by eating one, you are taking its life. The solution of course is to learn to photosynthesize.

The only argument for veganism is personal health issues. I've known several people who have been forced to be vegans, at least one of whom contracted a parasite that makes her violently ill if she consumes almost any animal product. Fortunately, none of those people have ever attempted to preach at me about going vegan, because they HATE being vegan.

firstly, i didn't become vegan because i was touched or disgusted by 1 or 2 peta vids .. i'm doing it for my own reasons. i'm not blind to the fact that we're proven omnivores by the way and i won't go around preaching or throwing cows blood at people (if anything, peta still makes my skin crawl) all the health issues people complain about so far mean nothing to me because i know a couple that have been vegan their entire lives (no not some 20 something couple ... these guys are going into their 80's) and they're not skinny, look healthy and not only that .. but 2 dudes in my boxing class are vegan and they have no health issues

not sure where these people are getting their sources from, but i tend to believe something like my own eyes over something i read in a book or anywhere else.

nowadays to me it's "wrong until proven right"

 

[SsilverR]

i would not.
why?
well look at it this way:
plant cells and animal cells are exactly the same. execpt that the plant cell has an added "cell wall".
now plants--as a whole, not just cells--do not have nerves and therefore can't feel pain.
they also can't defend themselves or run.
but when eaten, the plant cells will die the same way animal cells would.
so eating a plant is the same as eating a cow.
the difference is that plants can't cry out in pain as you kill them.
the cells could be feeling pain, but they can't scream out saying they are.
the just have to sit there, motionless, waiting to die.

so yeah, i'd rather eat something that has a fighting chance, then something that can't fight back.

i would rather eat something with a fighting chance too ... i used to hunt with my dad years ago and like i said earlier

if we hunted our food, i would not be vegan right now ... and animal that has lived a full life in the wild then got killed quickly and cleanly by an ethical hunters bullet is good meat ... no hormones, no cages, no suffering.

but alot of the meat you see in your supermarkets today had no such thing as a fighting chance.

yeah, silent screamers or not ... we gotta eat something. most plants are ready to go ... if they aren't then the edible bits wouldn't be ripe (edible) would they?

like how apples drop from a tree

have you ever seen a place that keeps livestock for slaughter?
not really to bad.
no cages, and often plenty of room to move.
a cow is born, and grows up always well fed.
plus there is the fact that cows and other animals are raised a bred to be eaten.
you will never see a cow, chicken, or any other animal in the meat asile on the endangered species list.
yes there are a lot of unwanted chemicals in meat, but like you said, the only way to get meat without those is to kill an animal yourself.

not only that .. i worked in an french/algerian abbatoir for almost a year ... i've not only seen slaughter, i've done it .. alot. and already mentioned we used to hunt. alot of the places i worked at or seen were kind of inhumane but ....this WAS an islamic slaughterhouse so ... yeah .. not too nice a way to go ... the abbatoirs here in england (well most of them) usually get their meat already dead and ready to carve so .. can't really comment about how they lived.

 

[Xisin]

Not ever, ever, ever! I find meat very tasty and cheese is the best food in the world.

 

[SsilverR]

Personally i feel privileged to be in a society that gives me the option to live whatever lifestyle i want

Personally I feel sad that you acknowledge societies authority over your lifestyle choices.

And on to the question, no. My diet is balanced and includes meat, dairy, fruits and veggies. I see no reason for me to go vegan.

wait ... what? what authority? ... no one in my family even knows i'm vegan yet, no police force, no social workers ... the only "authority" that made me vegan was myself ... read carefully before answering, mate

if you're happy with you're current lifestyle then don't change, simple as that .. it's all about what works for you

 

[luclin92]

i think i could go full vegan. the only thing i would miss is cheese, but i cal live without that.

 

[SsilverR]

I could never become vegan I need meat with every meal or it doesn't feel right for some reason. My life would probably be less stressful if I wasn't always trying to find some all the time.

actually it's proven that a vegan diet helps lower stress and blood pressure

and don't think all we eat is raw carrots ... there's a HUGE selection of delicious dishes from all over the world ... even if you don't want to change your lifestyle of become vegan/vegetarian ... i really do recommend you try some vegan cuisine .. indian/japanese/african/italian ... beautiful food

Stop trying to make us go vegan! If pressed, all we need to do is say 'BACON' and the argument is over by default! Plus, if we all go vegan, we would hike the price of your food up, causing a vegan overload, lowering the price of bacon, and making me happier!
Among bacon, i cant give up pork, pepperoni, salami, and smoked gouda.

cool, quote where i tried to make anyone vegan

does me sharing my opinion and knowledge isntantly mean i'm trying to convert people? ... seriously man >.< wtf

 

[thethingthatlurks]

That's just it, your point is stupid! I could always gather fruits/nuts/veggies etc, and it would be a 100% natural diet by any standards. Yes, I could even forgo technology, anything, even a bloody stick. I would still be getting enough nutrients to survive.

No you couldn't. A lot of the plants veggies eat to get their neccesary nutrients don't exist in nature, don't live everywhere or aren't there in a large enough quantity and timeframe. Oh sure you'd get your calories, but you'd be lacking certain minerals and vitamins.

Fact is, when living in nature, you're going to need some animal protein and you're going to need some technology. It's a simple fact of life, it's how humans have evolved.

*sigh* I was going to call you an idiot and mockingly point out just how wrong you are, but that wouldn't serve any purpose, would it?
No, you are wrong. DEAD. FUCKING. WRONG.
Firstly, there is no difference between animal and plant protein. All we need are the amino acids. You know what those are, right? The 20 little organic molecules out of which most of our proteins are constructed. Out of those, only 9 need to be supplied from food (12 for infants, but let's ignore that for the moment). All of these can be obtained from legumes and nuts without any problems. Ok, so tell me why we need animal proteins for that?
Next, nutrients. I can only assume you're talking about iron, cyanobalamin (aka B12), thiamine (aka B1), and nicotinic acid (aka niacin, or B3). The B vitamins aren't actually found in meat per-se, but rather are produced by bacteria which contaminate meat. If I were worried about my B vitamins (and not about polio or other diseases), I could get the same amount of B vitamins you get from a steak by eating a handful of dirt. Or leaves close to the ground. Or grass.
Now iron. Funny thing about that, spinach actually contains more iron, gram by gram, than ground up beef. Sadly, the bioavailability of this non-heme (heme being the "junk" surrounding the iron atom in hemoglobin/myoglobin) is rather limited. However, ascorbic and oxalic acid can improve this greatly. So if I were worried about my iron intake, I could munch on spinach all day and eat a lemon or two as well. Or cranberries in the north.

It is hardly difficult to get nutrients in nature. Although I will admit the huge hole in my survivalist theory: my knowledge of biochemistry had better remain intact. Then again, at least I'd never suffer from scurvy...

 

[SsilverR]

I probably wouldnt without having some sort of serious dietary issues, that said Veganism isnt necessarily healthier.
There are issues such as anemia, because Iron from plants is harder for your system to break down, osteoporosis, same reason but replace iron with calcium. A lack of B12 will make both of these worse.
There are also links between processed soy and breast cancer (in both males an females) and an estrogen like chemical found in soy is known to "feminize men" if over consumed.
Granted there are ways pretty much any kind of food can kill you, heck we can die from breathing.

it's all there you just have to do some research before going into it ... also ... the soy thing is true ... thank god soy is only a grain of sand in the desert that is vegan cuisine eh?

And a mere atom in the omnivore cuisine.

hahahaha!

of course, i won't even argue with that .. but how much of the omnivore cuisine will you ever try before you die? ... chances are not all of it ... same with vegan, there's more than enough to keep me intrigued and occupied until the day i meet that dude in the black cloak ;D

Neo?
A New Vegas Ranger?
Batman???

i was hoping batman but ... i think i'll have no such luck LOL .. i meant ol' grim

 

[Verlander]

I wouldn't do it for the pretentious attitude behind it. "Oh noes, the poor ickle animals". What a load of balls

If there was ever an argument about it, it would be the pollution that the farming system causes, but even that is pretty unsubstantial when there are bigger issues in the world.

Basically what we need to do is eat less meat, more fish, especially more diverse fish than the few that we have, and far more veg. Also people need to loose their fear of offal and foods made from waste, such as black puddings. That way we get more food from fewer animals. Stocks, soups and stews are also particularly good at this. Also eating food in seasons, rather than demanding the same veg all year around

 

[Arizona Kyle]

I don't even mean ovo-lacto vegetarian, I'm talking PURE vegan.

Vegans consume neither the animal or the products of any animal with a face, meaning that things like milk, eggs and even honey are off the list.
Apparently, there are quite alot of health benifits that come with going full vegan and i was wondering if anyone else here would do it (I just recently decided to do it for personal reasons) or is already living the vegan lifestyle.

Do you even think humans should become (ok i REALLY don't want to use the word "Vegan" again) herbivores? since our very physiology dictates that we're omnivores and meat to some people is literally the only lifeline.

Personally i feel privileged to be in a society that gives me the option to live whatever lifestyle i want, and although i now personally believe that humans may reach a point where everyone has these options and perhaps should reduce or fully stop meat consumption, not only for overall health but also for the sake of overall ethics.

Hopefully i won't evolve into one of those "omfg u had a BURGER?!?!"**throws bucket of cows blood on mums face** ..... truly cringe worthy >.<
+ i'm not really vegan yet ... only been at it for a week.

hold on.... you dont eat animals but you have cows blood WTF?!? LOL

Nah i love meat to much to become a vegan

twas a peta joke .... i honestly have no idea how those freaks get their buckets of cows blood .... they must know a few goths or some shit XD

Hmmm now i have to find some peta people and ask them that

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

i could go vegetarian, but never vegan. too many foods i couldn't live without contain animal-derived products (eggs, milk, etc.).

 

[SsilverR]

wait ?...what ? either I am miss understanding what you have written or did you just hint that you get more attractive if you eat vegan ?...If I am miss understanding then I am sorry.

you're at peace, you respect all others and their decisions and you like what you see in the mirror (both physically and psychologically) ... if that's the case then cravings won't be an issue ... especially with all the beautiful vegan cuisine from all around the world to keep your taste buds occupied

no, you don't have to be attractive to look in the mirror, smile and feel good about yourself

Yes, I know that you do not have to be attractive to do that.But many people still think that they have to be "attractive" to do that.

and that's the problem ... like i said, if you feel good about yourself after you've changed your life in some way, you seem healthier, feel healthier and are committed and at peace ... then you're going to want to smile when you look in the mirror.

those people who think that are obviously in a dark place .. either that or they're insensitive douchebags ... when you feel good about yourself and you find peace and confidence then looking in the mirror and smiling isn't something you have to try to do ... you just will

I agree with you about this but I do not agree with persons that says that you have to do a certain change to do this like going vegan.

no, no ,no u missed my point .. i didn't say you needed an extreme change to achieve this ... what i meant was as long as you feel good about yourself no one elses opinion should get in the way of that depending on the context.

i used veganism as an example since it's the primary subject in this thread .. it could be anything you do, as long as it works for you and makes you feel good.

Actually it seems like you missed my point (or I did a translation mistake) because you just wrote that I missed your point then wrote the point I was trying to tell you...anyway it seems like we are agreeing about the subject.

nah, u made no errors ... twas i .. with my 5am sleepiness XD ... either way i think we both said what we needed to say and we both understand each others perspective so it's all good

i feel like there's more to be said but for the life of me i can't seem to think ... more i need sleep but it could be that most of you guys are right and i need more cod liver omega 3 haha ^^ ... the cod teases me .... knowing i will never jack his liver ... wait wtf am i talking about ... LOL imma pass out now XD

Yeah,you do that before you accidentally steals the cods liver but seriously I didn't notice this until now but why is it not a poll ? anyway feels a bit wrong when you say that "we" might be right after you have defended your opinion.

I thought about making it a poll at the start but i kind of wanted to hear peoples worded opinions instead of having most of them click 1 button and leave XD

Shame alot of people on this thread think i'm trying to convert people or claim some kind of moral highground .. ah well

yeah it is kind of confusing but if it turns out that we were both trying to make the same point and one of us (me lol) missed it completely, then i see it as a mutual win when the air is cleared

one of those ..

guy1. "THAT WALL IS BLUE!!"

guy2. "NO IT'S NOT!! ... it's BLUE!!!"

guy1. "DIEEEEE!!!!"

 

[Kohake]

I'm not a vega, or even vegitaian myself, but I do want to object to all the people saying that it's natural. Sure, it's natural to eat meat, but not to financially suport an organisation that treats living being poorly for the sake of proffit. Those are two very distinct things.

That said, I eat meat myself, but unless it's food I really like and there is an alternative, I'd rather not avoid meat.

As for why I'm still not a vegan it's because I'm just too selfish.

 

[Beliyal]

snip - long ass post

Good post that. Just a couple of things:
You absolutely have a right to eat whatever (non-human, non-endangered species) you want for whatever reason you want. I respect that. Eating less meat is certainly good for you and I have lost some weight and feel much better having done it myself. In this day and age you have the option of eating no meat all and (despite what some ill-informed escapists think) that is also a perfectly healthy and reasonable diet option.

I also kind of understand not eating eggs and milk because you don't like the condition these animals are kept in. In my country a consumer move away from battery farmed hens has prompted positive changes and resulted in lots of free range eggs being made available. So why not eat these eggs? these hens live a happy healthy chicken life (probably much better than they would in the wild).

Here is the bit where vegans completely lose me, and why many people consider vegans to by hypocrites: By-products from dead animals. The animal was killed for food already, these leftover bits (skin, fat etc) are either thrown away or used for something productive. If you hold the bizarre position that you refuse to support this secondary market for animal products in any way then logic holds that you be consistent in that position: No leather shoes. No cosmetics. Don't use pretty much any medicine ever. Don't live in a house, drive in a car, or use a computer (see my previous post - rendered animal fat is routinely used for lubrication in modern steel mills). Doing some of these things but not others is irrational.

Yes, I agree with you on these other accounts. I am a vegetarian, but I eat milk and eggs. Milk a bit less now, as I often buy soy milk when I feel like drinking that one, and I don't eat that much eggs so I don't buy them so often either. I don't know what's the problem with drinking milk, except that fact that animal treatment is horrible. Vegans probably avoid this because there are good enough substitutes for everything so they, probably, believe it is unnecessary to consume any animal product if there is a substitute. It is very hard to buy specific vegan food here where I live so I don't know much about it. That's why I don't really think it's a good time for me to become vegan, but I think I could be one, if there really are substitutes. However, I don't think it's necessary to jump from extreme into another and I really don't like all these labels (vegetarian, lacto-ovo vegetarian, vegan, whatever). I think it would be the best to remain an omnivore, but to cut down the amount of meat consumed and to be rational about it.

About those by-products; yes, it's a slippery slope. I think we will always be using some animal products and as I said, I have no problem with it. The problem lies with the treatment of those animals and with our exaggerating. I know people that buy leather clothing and they wear each piece once or twice and then they buy a new one. I have leather boots that I bought 7 years ago and I've yet to see the scratch on them or the reason not to wear them and replace them with another boots. I am aware that I can't avoid animal products, despite my actions and decisions, but I will try to avoid them where I can. I think that's the vegan explanation; they will do whatever they can do to lower the amount of animal suffering. And all this is just about labelling and nit-picking. Yes, they probably use some animal products and don't even know about it, but they are doing what they can to avoid using them when they know about it. Maybe we could stop attacking them? They did more than we are doing, so why attack them because they can't go all the way? I'm sure they are aware of that, but they are still trying to lower the amount of suffering to minimum levels. I too find it kinda irrational to push the limits to the extremes, but if someone is willing to do so without endangering themselves or their surroundings, I think that's positive. And most people in the developed world have enough choices and products to choose from so you can probably avoid a lot of animal products by just knowing where to look. I've seen the community of people that eat raw food only and even in my country, they have choices about buying food. I think that's way too extreme, but if they can do it? That's wonderful. It shows just how much humans are capable of ignoring the "natural order of things" and still lead normal, healthy lives.

At Beliyal, long rant is long.

Dude calm down. Perhaps you missed the bit where I said I value all life the same. I seen plants and animals the same. Also I studied microbiology so I know the difference between animals and plants and its not that big a difference. Look I don't condone animal cruelty but saying proper farming is wrong and we should only hunt is just plain retarded.

You can't compare my stance on plants to killing microbes. plants can feel the world around them and react to it. a lot of microbiologists believe the only reason plant's are not walking around like us is because of their ridged cell walls. They are complex life forms with proven behavioural patters. Saying eating plants is ok but animals is wrong just because they are different from animals and thus us, is what I find hypocritical.

Sorry if it looked like I'm raging. I value all life too and I didn't mean the post to look like I want us to go hunting animals in the woods with spears. Far from it; I've seen healthy way of farming animals and it doesn't involve hunting in the woods. It involves proper farms with a lot of space and animals that live on fresh air from birth till death, that have a chance to give birth, to tend to their young, to live a life without stress, without torture, fear and pain. It requires a lot of space and time, and the results are good for the animals, but you can't sustain the need for so much meat with that kind of farming.

Yes, I understand what you mean now, but we still didn't solve the problem about what is painful to the plant. Because, chopping down trees, yes, I believe plants suffer when we do that, but vegetarians and vegans don't eat trees. Or grass or flowers. We eat plants that have seasonal growth; so, is harvesting wheat painful? Picking apples, lettuce, salad, soy? Also, treatment of plants? I don't think it's an issue. They don't live in cages or are unable to grow properly, and we don't inflict pain upon them before "killing" them by harvesting them. Pesticides maybe? Well, pesticides hurt everyone, not just plants so I can't really say we do it intentionally to make plants suffer. So how does it compare, besides the fact that the loss of life in any being must be painful to some extent? The life of a plant we eat is in no way similar to the life of an animal in a slaughterhouse. And if we say killing plants is also wrong, then what? We're going to eat rocks? Besides, even people that eat meat, eat plants. There are obviously no problems with it, it's just used as an argument against vegetarians/vegans. "If you think eating animals is wrong, so is eating plants". What now? Should we stop eating plants because we think that eating animals is wrong and we must value all life the same? What about omnivores? They are "excused" because they don't think eating animals is wrong? I just don't seem to understand what would this argument accomplish. I'm sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with taking an apple from a tree. And taking an apple from a tree is not in any way similar with chopping off beaks from birds in slaughterhouses in order to stop them from plucking each other because of stress and fear. I don't see myself morally superior because I'm a vegetarian, nor am I a vegetarian only because I feel sorry for animals. I do what I can to minimise the animal suffering, but saying that is hypocritical not to care about minimising plant suffering (? what suffering exactly?) is irrational, in my opinion. Because if I'm hypocritical for eating plants, then how much of a hypocrite is a person that eats both plants and animals and speaks of plant pain?

Sorry for another rant, I just can't say anything short.

 

[michiehoward]

Oh God, fuck no. And I'll tell you why, if by chance cows, and pigs and chickens got the upper hand....they'd eat us too. Vive la Meat

 

[Arqus_Zed]

if(Homo_sapiens == omnivore)
{
ME->eat_meat();
}

You see, I respect nature enough to NOT become a vegetarian or vegan.

 

[Cowabungaa]

snip

No, you are wrong. You assume you'll get that spinach and those lemons in nature. News flash; they're either the results of centuries of selective breeding, or they simply don't grow everywhere and at all times. You wouldn't last two years.

 

[hutchy27]

No I wouldn't, I like chicken, cheese and all that stuff and I wouldn't like to give it up. I don't mind if someone is a Vegan, that's fine by me.

 

[spiffleh]

Never! I love beef too much u__u

 

[magicmonkeybars]

No I couldn't even if I wanted to.

Veganism isn't just about what you eat but also about not using animal products like leather shoes and woolen sweaters, feathered pillows, riding a horse or having a pet animal.
It just seems like more effort than it's worth.

No matter how much effort you put in, your life as a human will always include animals in some way and benefite from their suffering.