would you ever become vegan?
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no, no ,no u missed my point .. i didn't say you needed an extreme change to achieve this ... what i meant was as long as you feel good about yourself no one elses opinion should get in the way of that depending on the context.rubinigosa said:
i used veganism as an example since it's the primary subject in this thread .. it could be anything you do, as long as it works for you and makes you feel good.
Nope I love bacon and seafood too much.
I also wouldn't be able to live a good life without the joys of burgers, chicken, tacos, hot dogs, cheese, milk, ice cream, eggs, and anything else since the pretty only vegetable I'll eat is corn.
I also wouldn't be able to live a good life without the joys of burgers, chicken, tacos, hot dogs, cheese, milk, ice cream, eggs, and anything else since the pretty only vegetable I'll eat is corn.
Unfortunately my understanding of the world is such that I know how near impossible it is to live a life free of animal product, and I'm practically minded enough to know it's an impossibility for the entire wold to live that way.
Veganism in all but a few cases does not alleviate the death or suffering of animals in any significant way (or, even, at all), to claim otherwise is to demonstrate naivety to the way the world works. I simply will not dismiss common sense so I may adopt a title and a lifestyle for the sake of making myself feel good.
As far as eating a healthier diet is concerned, I can and should improve mine and less processed meat is a good start....
Veganism in all but a few cases does not alleviate the death or suffering of animals in any significant way (or, even, at all), to claim otherwise is to demonstrate naivety to the way the world works. I simply will not dismiss common sense so I may adopt a title and a lifestyle for the sake of making myself feel good.
As far as eating a healthier diet is concerned, I can and should improve mine and less processed meat is a good start....
Never. It's like the whole wasting paper thing. Just because you don't use it doesn't mean that it will stop. The meat you see being sold belongs to animals who are already dead. Not eating it will not bring it back to life, and the people selling the meat will not stop just because you don't partake in it. And if creatures weren't meant to eat meat, then why were carnivores created?
I couldn't ever be a vegan. First off, I quite enjoy meat, but more importantly, veganism just seems so... unnecessary. Seriously, why NOT drink milk or eat cheese? They're rather good for you, and producing dairy products does no harm to the cows (as far as I know). Basically, I can understand vegetarianism, but being a vegan seems (to me) to be going a little bit overboard. However, it all comes down to the decisions of the individual as to whether or not they want to eat something, so... more power to you!
All of that aside, in a hypothetical world where I somehow HAD to be vegan, I think that I could survive quite happily. One of the best meals I've ever had was at the very least entirely vegetarian and quite probably vegan, and every single item available to me was incredible. If I could get my hands on food like that, I'd be able to be content to be a vegan, although I'd probably still miss cheese and honey and other such things.
All of that aside, in a hypothetical world where I somehow HAD to be vegan, I think that I could survive quite happily. One of the best meals I've ever had was at the very least entirely vegetarian and quite probably vegan, and every single item available to me was incredible. If I could get my hands on food like that, I'd be able to be content to be a vegan, although I'd probably still miss cheese and honey and other such things.
I would never become vegetarian or any branch of it. Simply because if I ran into a grizzly bear, I don't think I have any chance of it being a 'Vegetarian' grizzly bear. Pretty sure I would be torn apart very painfully and fed to it's children.
Actually it seems like you missed my point (or I did a translation mistake) because you just wrote that I missed your point then wrote the point I was trying to tell you...anyway it seems like we are agreeing about the subject.SsilverR said:
Real vegans don't wear leather shoes.SsilverR said:
I know a Vegan and he has to supplement vitamins and minerals that he doesn't get from meat into his diet.
I wouldn't be so sure on those "healthy pro's" because you went vegan, there is conversely a lot you're giving up.
Oh, he also has anal fisures because of it, just sayin'.
Hell to the no. I would if that was the only food available, but you can't get me to do it willingly. Maaayyybbee vegetarian if I didn't have to do the cooking myself (I hate cooking vegetables) but never full vegan. I love my milk on my breakfast cereal too much to switch to soy.
Why hypocritical? What is hypocritical about eating only the food you actually like? Because, we're not all vegetarian/vegan only because of animals that suffer. I first am not. Animal suffering is on the list, but not the first on it. I am vegetarian because I love it, because it is beneficial to my health (this is personal only), the food falls lightly on my stomach and I don't feel gloated, it reduced many of my health problems, the cuisine is fantastic and I don't like meat and never really have liked it. I also have no real problems with killing animals; I do have problems with the inhumane treatment of them. Yes, I'm aware that not all cows can live happily ever after on fresh air because there simply is not enough place, but I don't think that should be used as an excuse. We, as a species, evolved enough to develop the concept of ethics and morality, and treating our food they way we treat is, first of all, not healthy for us, and second of all, morally disgusting. Now, I've seen the cows that do live happily ever after on fresh air and I couldn't be happier. They were healthy and not covered in piss and shit of other cows; honestly, what disgusted me the most about slaughterhouses was that feeling that those animals live in unclean conditions and that I eat that afterwards. Also, the problem has never been the sole act of eating meat; the problem is exaggeration. And we exaggerate in meat consumption, just because we can and because it's in a supermarket. If we had to hunt it down on our own, we sure as hell wouldn't be eating it three times a day, 7 days a week. We would ration it and keep one kill maybe for weeks. I'm not for returning thousands of years in the past, but exaggeration is one of the issues. Eating a stake once a week however, is not. But an average omnivore will eat meat at least twice a day.RevRaptor said:No - From my view point vegetarianism is hypocritical. I believe all life has equal value. did you know plants scream in the ultra sonic range when damaged, or that the acacia tree will release tannins when fed apon which makes its leaves unpalatable. These tannins are also digestion inhibitors. The tree also gives off a scent signal, upon which trees in the surrounding areas will pre-emptively increase their own tannin levels.
In short it knows when it's being eaten and doesn't like it. To me that implies that it feels pain. If it didn't feel pain then how else would it know it's being eaten.
Also this:
About plants; yes, there are indications that they do "feel" pain, but we cannot compare plants (a completely different type of beings) to animals. Biologists determined that we belong to two separate kingdoms (unlike the fact that we are animals, just like the ones we eat). On some level, plants can probably feel pain (or at least a basic chemical reaction that implies the loss of life), but I do not think that kind of pain is similar to ours. Plants are organisms that can live for thousands of years (unlike our limited life spans), if you cut the branch off, it will grow back (unlike our body parts), they do not have nerves and a nerve system, they do not tend to their young, they do not have faces, they do not have voices and so on. Besides, what do we consider being painful for the plant? Taking the apple from a tree? Harvesting wheat? Picking up ripe lettuce? Chopping the tree down, walking on grass, picking a flower? It may sound... selfish to think of plants like that, but they are a completely different life form. If we say plants "know" when they're "eaten", should there be protests about destroying bacteria? Because, they are a life form too, and as far as we know, they too maybe feel some sort of primal pain. Besides, people that don't care about the slaughter of animals don't really care about harvesting plants; they just use this as an attack to ask vegetarians "But, aren't plants in pain too?". I don't know, maybe on some level they are. But they are also on many levels completely different from beings that share ancestors with us, and that we have no problems torturing and killing. I mean, this post may sound condemning or patronising, but I find something else hypocritical; people that eat meat with no moral problems that go on talking about "murdering plants". Clearly, murdering anything that isn't human is not on those people's lists as something important. And one more thing; I already said that the sole act of murder is not really the biggest issue. The treatment is the issue, and we can't say that we treat wheat inhumanely, can we? Or could we argue that every time we harvest it, it feels pain? It grows back next season though, so how can we even determine what should be considered painful or inhumane for the plant? These are the reasons that put this plant thing on a whole new level of possible arguments. Which is something we can't address before we address the issue of our four-legged (or winged) close relatives. Which in turn is not something we will solve before we solve the treatment of our fellow humans. But I do like the fact that my simple choice can make a little bit of difference. In this time and age, this kind of a choice shouldn't really be followed with so much controversy and stereotypes.
I'm sorry if this sounds as an attack, because it isn't; I just wanted to put some things in different perspective and to note that not all vegetarians and vegans are so for only one reason, and that reason being the concern for animal welfare
There are a lot of possible reason a person may have for being vegetarian or vegan. I personally try not to use the word "vegetarian" for myself, exactly because everyone suddenly starts thinking that I only do it because I weep for animals in slaughterhouses. I do weep for them, but that's nowhere near being the only reason for me choosing this diet and it's not even the first on the list of reasons./tl;dr
i'm not an in-fighter so i don't need leather soles .. i'm more of a balanced technician so i have this softer compound made up of all this other stuff ... even if it is animal produce i won't shed a tear since i know how unrealistic being full vegan is so all i can do is set my own standards and just live happyLyri said:
I see no reason to. I love the taste of meat, and the only thing I eat that is technically vegan is probably water. I don't think that it's more healthy either, there are plenty of people who eat meat and are very healthy. And I don't think there is anything even remotely ethically questionable about eating meat either. Everything in nature survives only through murder, and us humans aren't so far above nature as we often delude ourselves into thinking.SsilverR said:
To clarify, I have nothing against vegans, I have a very good friend who is a vegan, but I also can't agree with any argument that being vegan is ethically superior.
nah, u made no errors ... twas i .. with my 5am sleepiness XD ... either way i think we both said what we needed to say and we both understand each others perspective so it's all goodrubinigosa said:
i feel like there's more to be said but for the life of me i can't seem to think ... more i need sleep but it could be that most of you guys are right and i need more cod liver omega 3 haha ^^ ... the cod teases me .... knowing i will never jack his liver ... wait wtf am i talking about ... LOL imma pass out now XD
Nope.
For one I adopted the idea that changing your diet because you somehow feel consuming meat is morally wrong isn't a very good reason to change it in the first place.
And for another thing I enjoy my diet as it is. I could see maybe going vegan later on in life if I felt like I needed to watch my health more. But I'm not one of these people that just turns into a health nut overnight.
For one I adopted the idea that changing your diet because you somehow feel consuming meat is morally wrong isn't a very good reason to change it in the first place.
And for another thing I enjoy my diet as it is. I could see maybe going vegan later on in life if I felt like I needed to watch my health more. But I'm not one of these people that just turns into a health nut overnight.
Are you kidding me? Hell no. I would never, EVER give up my rare steak. Being vegan is stupid and only hurts your body. Whats worse, if you try and make your new born child vegan, you are going to have one malnourished baby on your hands.