Would you support a cure for homosexuality and transexualism?

[Silvanus]

Something I hadn't thought of before-- if this "cure" were developed, there are many countries who would force it on people. Scientific development does not occur in a vacuum; develop such a thing in the UK/ US, and in the near future, the capacity will be in the hands of such countries as would force it.


That's not even considering the potential for future governments who would mandate it. If the "cure" existed in the UK, even on a voluntary basis, then I wouldn't put it past the tabloids to start advocating its use on children-- and nor would I put it past future conservative governments to "encourage" it.

 

[squeekenator]

I would absolutely support a cure for transsexualism because it has a massive negative impact on your life, and not only because of the social stigma. Homosexuality, though, is just fine. We can keep it.

 

[SuperUberBob]

This thread is a bucket full of AIDS.

Anybody who says that this is something that needs to be cured is a person I don't want to spend time with.

 

[xmbts]

I would absolutely support a cure for transsexualism because it has a massive negative impact on your life, and not only because of the social stigma. Homosexuality, though, is just fine. We can keep it.

So...it's more convenient to twist around genes chemicals hormones and the like than to just be tolerant?

I doubt it's possible to fully eliminate bigotry but why not strive to make society a place where that fear isn't what keeps people from actually accepting and being themselves. Why is it the people who simply want to exist comfortably have to change while the assholes can keep being assholes?

 

[Abomination]

I would absolutely support a cure for transsexualism because it has a massive negative impact on your life, and not only because of the social stigma. Homosexuality, though, is just fine. We can keep it.

So...it's more convenient to twist around genes chemicals hormones and the like than to just be tolerant?

I doubt it's possible to fully eliminate bigotry but why not strive to make society a place where that fear isn't what keeps people from actually accepting and being themselves. Why is it the people who simply want to exist comfortably have to change while the assholes can keep being assholes?

To be fair, it's seldom you'll meet a person who "loves" being a transgender and the treatments they feel they need to subject themselves to in order to feel "complete".

If transgenderism is what those "suffering"(?) from it claim it to be - they were born in the wrong body - then a "cure" for it would be a great thing. It would mean they were the gender of their sex. Wouldn't that make EVERYONE happy?

If transgenderism is a choice there's no need to cure it as it's a choice. If transgenderism is not a choice then a cure for it should be available to those who want it.

Same with homosexuality, I guess, but I don't see homosexuals needing to subject themselves to bodily mutilation and hormone therapy in order to feel "complete".

 

[xmbts]

I would absolutely support a cure for transsexualism because it has a massive negative impact on your life, and not only because of the social stigma. Homosexuality, though, is just fine. We can keep it.

So...it's more convenient to twist around genes chemicals hormones and the like than to just be tolerant?

I doubt it's possible to fully eliminate bigotry but why not strive to make society a place where that fear isn't what keeps people from actually accepting and being themselves. Why is it the people who simply want to exist comfortably have to change while the assholes can keep being assholes?

To be fair, it's seldom you'll meet a person who "loves" being a transgender and the treatments they feel they need to subject themselves to in order to feel "complete".

If transgenderism is what those "suffering"(?) from it claim it to be - they were born in the wrong body - then a "cure" for it would be a great thing. It would mean they were the gender of their sex. Wouldn't that make EVERYONE happy?

If transgenderism is a choice there's no need to cure it as it's a choice. If transgenderism is not a choice then a cure for it should be available to those who want it.

Same with homosexuality, I guess, but I don't see homosexuals needing to subject themselves to bodily mutilation and hormone therapy in order to feel "complete".

You're operating on the assumption that all trans-people choose to transition. And you'd be hard pressed to find someone who hates being trans for reasons that don't stem from how others view them, not how they view themselves.

And what Trans people want is to be seen as the gender they identify with, so it seems almost mean spirited to Go the complete other direction and just poof them back into a cis-gendered mindset. "Hey I know you want this one thing but forget that how about we warp your mind into complacency?"

You call it mutilation, you suggest the possibility that it's a choice and you say that it may be best for them to just stop being them. You truly do not understand the situation you're talking about, and that's okay. It's not an easy situation to just jump in and understand, but please don't talk as if you know what's best for a group of people you don't have an accurate understanding of.

 

[Abomination]

I would absolutely support a cure for transsexualism because it has a massive negative impact on your life, and not only because of the social stigma. Homosexuality, though, is just fine. We can keep it.

So...it's more convenient to twist around genes chemicals hormones and the like than to just be tolerant?

I doubt it's possible to fully eliminate bigotry but why not strive to make society a place where that fear isn't what keeps people from actually accepting and being themselves. Why is it the people who simply want to exist comfortably have to change while the assholes can keep being assholes?

To be fair, it's seldom you'll meet a person who "loves" being a transgender and the treatments they feel they need to subject themselves to in order to feel "complete".

If transgenderism is what those "suffering"(?) from it claim it to be - they were born in the wrong body - then a "cure" for it would be a great thing. It would mean they were the gender of their sex. Wouldn't that make EVERYONE happy?

If transgenderism is a choice there's no need to cure it as it's a choice. If transgenderism is not a choice then a cure for it should be available to those who want it.

Same with homosexuality, I guess, but I don't see homosexuals needing to subject themselves to bodily mutilation and hormone therapy in order to feel "complete".

You're operating on the assumption that all trans-people choose to transition. And you'd be hard pressed to find someone who hates being trans for reasons that don't stem from how others view them, not how they view themselves.

And what Trans people want is to be seen as the gender they identify with, so it seems almost mean spirited to Go the complete other direction and just poof them back into a cis-gendered mindset. "Hey I know you want this one thing but forget that how about we warp your mind into complacency?"

You call it mutilation, you suggest the possibility that it's a choice and you say that it may be best for them to just stop being them. You truly do not understand the situation you're talking about, and that's okay. It's not an easy situation to just jump in and understand, but please don't talk as if you know what's best for a group of people you don't have an accurate understanding of.

And I repeat

If transgenderism is a choice there's no need to cure it as it's a choice. If transgenderism is not a choice then a cure for it should be available to those who want it.

I use the words "if" and "should be available" and "to those who want it".

I know there are trans who do not feel the need to engage in surgery and/or hormone treatment in order to feel content with themselves but there are MANY who do feel that need.

For some reason you assumed I would want to force this on trans people. That's a bit fucking disingenuous.

So yes, I do understand what trans people go through - they go through choices and decisions like every other person. Not every trans person is the same. Not every trans person's experience with being trans is the same. If some of them view their present state as an ailment or a curse then I would want them to have the opportunity or option to do something about it without needing to resort to expensive treatments. I would want to solve the problem they see in themselves. If they do not see it as an ailment or a problem then this wouldn?t apply to them.

So please don't talk to me as though you think I do not have empathy for a group of people I do not happen to be an immediate member of.

 

[xmbts]

snip!

I'm not saying there's no empathy, I'm just saying it Seems a bit misplaced for lack of a better word. And I never said anything about force, even offering that as an option can seem a bit...iffy. It's like saying "Have you tried...not being you?" Trust me that doesn't tend to go over well.


If someone is having difficulty coming to terms with themselves it's an issue that they need to address personally, preferably with support from those close to them, I don't believe an issue of that nature should be medicated away.

And that's not even addressing that such a thing is hypothetical and more than likely completely impossible. So realistically speaking, should they be supported or told that they should change?

 

[Boris Goodenough]

snip!

I'm not saying there's no empathy, I'm just saying it Seems a bit misplaced for lack of a better word. And I never said anything about force, even offering that as an option can seem a bit...iffy. It's like saying "Have you tried...not being you?" Trust me that doesn't tend to go over well.


If someone is having difficulty coming to terms with themselves it's an issue that they need to address personally, preferably with support from those close to them, I don't believe an issue of that nature should be medicated away.

And that's not even addressing that such a thing is hypothetical and more than likely completely impossible. So realistically speaking, should they be supported or told that they should change?

You are aware we were talking about a hypothetical situation (as it stands), right? That means you argue from the premise of said hypothetical situation and not dismiss it because we don't like it.

 

[xmbts]

snip!

I'm not saying there's no empathy, I'm just saying it Seems a bit misplaced for lack of a better word. And I never said anything about force, even offering that as an option can seem a bit...iffy. It's like saying "Have you tried...not being you?" Trust me that doesn't tend to go over well.


If someone is having difficulty coming to terms with themselves it's an issue that they need to address personally, preferably with support from those close to them, I don't believe an issue of that nature should be medicated away.

And that's not even addressing that such a thing is hypothetical and more than likely completely impossible. So realistically speaking, should they be supported or told that they should change?

You are aware we were talking about a hypothetical situation (as it stands), right? That means you argue from the premise of said hypothetical situation and not dismiss it because we don't like it.

Well then you're more then welcome to disregard the last 2 sentences of that post.

 

[Abomination]

snip!

I'm not saying there's no empathy, I'm just saying it Seems a bit misplaced for lack of a better word. And I never said anything about force, even offering that as an option can seem a bit...iffy. It's like saying "Have you tried...not being you?" Trust me that doesn't tend to go over well.


If someone is having difficulty coming to terms with themselves it's an issue that they need to address personally, preferably with support from those close to them, I don't believe an issue of that nature should be medicated away.

And that's not even addressing that such a thing is hypothetical and more than likely completely impossible. So realistically speaking, should they be supported or told that they should change?

You are aware we were talking about a hypothetical situation (as it stands), right? That means you argue from the premise of said hypothetical situation and not dismiss it because we don't like it.

Well then you're more then welcome to disregard the last 2 sentences of that post.

Even then, are you trying to say that because someone might say "Have you tried not being you?" that those trans people who do wish they could be their sex should be denied the opportunity to fix that?

We are talking about allowing the OPTION, not forcing anything or imposing anything... just having it available.

Of course some people would be dicks about it, of course it would give the anti-trans community some extra ammunition to lob at trans. But is that really reason enough to deny an option?

 

[xmbts]

snip!

I'm not saying there's no empathy, I'm just saying it Seems a bit misplaced for lack of a better word. And I never said anything about force, even offering that as an option can seem a bit...iffy. It's like saying "Have you tried...not being you?" Trust me that doesn't tend to go over well.


If someone is having difficulty coming to terms with themselves it's an issue that they need to address personally, preferably with support from those close to them, I don't believe an issue of that nature should be medicated away.

And that's not even addressing that such a thing is hypothetical and more than likely completely impossible. So realistically speaking, should they be supported or told that they should change?

You are aware we were talking about a hypothetical situation (as it stands), right? That means you argue from the premise of said hypothetical situation and not dismiss it because we don't like it.

Well then you're more then welcome to disregard the last 2 sentences of that post.

Even then, are you trying to say that because someone might say "Have you tried not being you?" that those trans people who do wish they could be their sex should be denied the opportunity to fix that?

We are talking about allowing the OPTION, not forcing anything or imposing anything... just having it available.

Of course some people would be dicks about it, of course it would give the anti-trans community some extra ammunition to lob at trans. But is that really reason enough to deny an option?

As I said, I never said anything about forcing. And I believe that coming to terms with yourself is ultimately a healthier solution than carving out and destroying a portion of your life. It would be medically induced denial. Add to that the potential that such a creation could be abused I just can't find any way to condone it.

 

[squeekenator]

So...it's more convenient to twist around genes chemicals hormones and the like than to just be tolerant?

I doubt it's possible to fully eliminate bigotry but why not strive to make society a place where that fear isn't what keeps people from actually accepting and being themselves. Why is it the people who simply want to exist comfortably have to change while the assholes can keep being assholes?

I don't quite follow. I specifically said that being trans has a negative impact on your own life, independently of people being a dick to you. How do you take from that statement that I'm trying to get rid of trans people to make bigots happy?

 

[xmbts]

So...it's more convenient to twist around genes chemicals hormones and the like than to just be tolerant?

I doubt it's possible to fully eliminate bigotry but why not strive to make society a place where that fear isn't what keeps people from actually accepting and being themselves. Why is it the people who simply want to exist comfortably have to change while the assholes can keep being assholes?

I don't quite follow. I specifically said that being trans has a negative impact on your own life, independently of people being a dick to you. How do you take from that statement that I'm trying to get rid of trans people to make bigots happy?

Don't get me wrong I don't think you're being malicious about it I'm just asking why we can't just cure bigotry instead.

And give me an example of it having a negative impact. I'm curious.

 

[squeekenator]

And give me an example of it having a negative impact. I'm curious.

Well, in my experience, years of insecurity, confusion, depression and completely fucking up any chance of making functional relationships.

 

[xmbts]

And give me an example of it having a negative impact. I'm curious.

Well, in my experience, years of insecurity, confusion, depression and completely fucking up any chance of making functional relationships.

In my experience those tend to be the effects of trying to hide it from others. Most people go through insecurity and confusion, what makes it difficult for trans people is that many believe they won't be accepted and shut themselves off, and unfortunately not enough people try to make them feel accepted.

And give me an example of it having a negative impact. I'm curious.

If all bigotry disappeared tomorrow, would transgendered individuals still seek corrective surgery? If the answer is yes, than it follows that something needed correcting. This need stems from feeling like one does not belong to their body; a "negative" if I've ever heard of one.

Why is that a negative though? Why in this case does bodily modification become so touchy when other people do it all the time? Just because someone wants to change themselves doesn't mean they're constantly operating in a self loathing depression.

 

[Abomination]

Why is that a negative though? Why in this case does bodily modification become so touchy when other people do it all the time? Just because someone wants to change themselves doesn't mean they're constantly operating in a self loathing depression.

There's a bit of a difference between wanting to improve how you look and feeling the need to completely change how you look to the degree you appear as a different sex.

What body modification are we talking about comparing it to? Haircuts? Painted nails? Piercings? Tattoos? Reconstructive surgery? Liposuction? Plastic surgery? Furry emulation surgery?

The devil's in the details here. We are talking about a procedure that makes people want to, essentially, remove their penises & Adam?s Apple, and grow redundant mammary glands. And they feel they MUST do this to themselves in order to "fix" how they appear.

If something needs fixing then, by definition, something is wrong with it. So yeah, it's a negative.

 

[squeekenator]

In my experience those tend to be the effects of trying to hide it from others. Most people go through insecurity and confusion, what makes it difficult for trans people is that many believe they won't be accepted and shut themselves off, and unfortunately not enough people try to make them feel accepted.

The primary symptom of gender dysphoria is feeling uncomfortable with your body, that's got nothing at all to do with how other people view you.

 

[xmbts]

In my experience those tend to be the effects of trying to hide it from others. Most people go through insecurity and confusion, what makes it difficult for trans people is that many believe they won't be accepted and shut themselves off, and unfortunately not enough people try to make them feel accepted.

The primary symptom of gender dysphoria is feeling uncomfortable with your body, that's got nothing at all to do with how other people view you.

I can't claim to speak for everyone but most dysphoric attacks I've seen have been triggered by other people. I'm aware that there's a general discomfort but I think that that's something to be confronted not to deny and run away from.

Why is that a negative though? Why in this case does bodily modification become so touchy when other people do it all the time? Just because someone wants to change themselves doesn't mean they're constantly operating in a self loathing depression.

There's a bit of a difference between wanting to improve how you look and feeling the need to completely change how you look to the degree you appear as a different sex.

What body modification are we talking about comparing it to? Haircuts? Painted nails? Piercings? Tattoos? Reconstructive surgery? Liposuction? Plastic surgery? Furry emulation surgery?

The devil's in the details here. We are talking about a procedure that makes people want to, essentially, remove their penises & Adam?s Apple, and grow redundant mammary glands. And they feel they MUST do this to themselves in order to "fix" how they appear.

If something needs fixing then, by definition, something is wrong with it. So yeah, it's a negative.

It's not fixing, it's changing. The body is just a lump of tissue is it really so much more sacred than a person's mind?

People can't just walk in and demand they change their bodies, they're supposed to see counseling to make sure it's a procedure that's beneficial to them.

Trans people aren't sick and in need of surgery to get better. But the possibility to be brought closer to how they would like to be is quite tempting and many choose to go through with it. Why is that an issue for anybody else but them?