WoW: Cataclysm Closed Beta Starts Right This Instant

[John Funk]

Maybe now someone will finally be able to explain the good parts about this expansion to me. So far it's just been "durrr flying mounts in azeroth, yeahhhhhhhh", which is a negative.

Thumbs crossed for more educated arguments from now on!

Uh, the fact that they're going back to the old world to make the 1-60 questing content as good as their 70-80 questing content with all the stuff they've learned, like phasing et al? That they're going back and making the leveling process much better so the quests don't suck as much? (I don't know if you've gone back and done the old-world quests but after TBC and WotLK leveling a new character or getting your achievements is downright painful).

That they're actually putting effort into making Azeroth a dynamic world and not a place where nothing ever changes?

I mean, this is just stuff on the surface. But frankly, the idea of it alone sounds fantastic, and is a marked change from "LOL NEW PLACE HERE'S TEN MORE LEVELS."

I will try to describe World of Warcraft's doctrines in such a way that my language will not offend and yet will still convey my message that World of Warcraft's gormless, twisted false-flag operations were forged in the crucible of commercialism. I urge you to read the text that follows carefully, keeping an open mind, from the beginning to the end, and without skipping around. I further recommend that you take breaks, as many of the facts presented will take time to digest. Despite total incompetence, World of Warcraft is often afflicted with an amazing conceit that causes it to mold the mind of virtually every citizen?young or old, rich or poor, simple or sophisticated.

World of Warcraft is not the only one who needs to reassess its assumptions. Think about egocentric swaggerers. They too should realize that World of Warcraft dreams of a time when they'll be free to rot our minds with the hallucinatory drug of mysticism. That's the way it's planned it, and that's the way it'll happen?not may happen but will happen?if we don't interfere, if we don't establish a supportive?rather than an intimidating?atmosphere for offering public comment. World of Warcraft has long wanted to prevent anyone from stating publicly that its language consists largely of euphemism, question-begging, and sheer, cloudy vagueness. Why do I bring that up? Because by studying its repression of ideas in its extreme, unambiguous form one may more clearly understand why throughout history, there has been a clash between those who wish to improve the lot of humankind and those who wish to remake the world to suit its own incoherent needs. Naturally, World of Warcraft belongs to the latter category.

I hope that humanity will rid this earth of crabby slobs with the greatest dispatch, since otherwise, the earth might well become rid of humanity. There are arguments that have made respectable organizations out of calumniators like World of Warcraft. So don't feed me any phony baloney about how unsavory couch potatoes are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes. That's just not true. Now for some parting advice: Look at the facts. Analyze the arguments. Think about the motives of the people who are telling you that World of Warcraft's an expert on everything from aardvarks to zymurgy. And have confidence in yourself. Remember, World of Warcraft's casus belli offer us nothing more than the same old snake oil in a shinier bottle.

I've read this like four times and I still have no idea what point you're trying to make.

 

[The Dane]

Actually i have the beta invite, but i don't have WoW

That's impossible. I'm pretty sure the requirements are to have a World of Warcraft account.

I have an Account, but i do not have a computer with WoW.

Yeah, I've been playing the beta for the last month and a half even though my account lapsed last summer. So an active account definitely isn't a necessary requirement.

 

[Count Igor]

Been playing since WoW came out, on and off, hope I get in. Can't wait to fly over some Hordicles!

Plus, Worgen Subtelty Rogue = What, like 2 minutes of non stop sprinting? WSG won!

 

[The Dane]

Uh, the fact that they're going back to the old world to make the 1-60 questing content as good as their 70-80 questing content with all the stuff they've learned, like phasing et al? That they're going back and making the leveling process much better so the quests don't suck as much? (I don't know if you've gone back and done the old-world quests but after TBC and WotLK leveling a new character or getting your achievements is downright painful).

That they're actually putting effort into making Azeroth a dynamic world and not a place where nothing ever changes?

I mean, this is just stuff on the surface. But frankly, the idea of it alone sounds fantastic, and is a marked change from "LOL NEW PLACE HERE'S TEN MORE LEVELS."

I can guarantee you that at least the first forty levels of Old World WoW (both Horde and Alliance) are fantastic improvements. They haven't just added five more levels, they've rebuilt the world. Forget the awesome gob and worgen start zones for a second. They've even made Stonetalon an essential questing experience (and honestly some of the funnest WoW I've played). Just fantastic stuff. All questing is far more streamlined and there is no grinding for your leveling experience, just lots of inventive questing. (Well, there's still a few Kill X Mobs quests, but they're almost always built in to other quests.) Plus for nostalgia fans, there are a ton of quests that reference the quests that were completed five years ago.

 

[Loonerinoes]

Maybe now someone will finally be able to explain the good parts about this expansion to me. So far it's just been "durrr flying mounts in azeroth, yeahhhhhhhh", which is a negative.

Thumbs crossed for more educated arguments from now on!

Uh, the fact that they're going back to the old world to make the 1-60 questing content as good as their 70-80 questing content with all the stuff they've learned, like phasing et al? That they're going back and making the leveling process much better so the quests don't suck as much? (I don't know if you've gone back and done the old-world quests but after TBC and WotLK leveling a new character or getting your achievements is downright painful).

That they're actually putting effort into making Azeroth a dynamic world and not a place where nothing ever changes?

I mean, this is just stuff on the surface. But frankly, the idea of it alone sounds fantastic, and is a marked change from "LOL NEW PLACE HERE'S TEN MORE LEVELS."

I will try to describe World of Warcraft's doctrines in such a way that my language will not offend and yet will still convey my message that World of Warcraft's gormless, twisted false-flag operations were forged in the crucible of commercialism. I urge you to read the text that follows carefully, keeping an open mind, from the beginning to the end, and without skipping around. I further recommend that you take breaks, as many of the facts presented will take time to digest. Despite total incompetence, World of Warcraft is often afflicted with an amazing conceit that causes it to mold the mind of virtually every citizen?young or old, rich or poor, simple or sophisticated.

World of Warcraft is not the only one who needs to reassess its assumptions. Think about egocentric swaggerers. They too should realize that World of Warcraft dreams of a time when they'll be free to rot our minds with the hallucinatory drug of mysticism. That's the way it's planned it, and that's the way it'll happen?not may happen but will happen?if we don't interfere, if we don't establish a supportive?rather than an intimidating?atmosphere for offering public comment. World of Warcraft has long wanted to prevent anyone from stating publicly that its language consists largely of euphemism, question-begging, and sheer, cloudy vagueness. Why do I bring that up? Because by studying its repression of ideas in its extreme, unambiguous form one may more clearly understand why throughout history, there has been a clash between those who wish to improve the lot of humankind and those who wish to remake the world to suit its own incoherent needs. Naturally, World of Warcraft belongs to the latter category.

I hope that humanity will rid this earth of crabby slobs with the greatest dispatch, since otherwise, the earth might well become rid of humanity. There are arguments that have made respectable organizations out of calumniators like World of Warcraft. So don't feed me any phony baloney about how unsavory couch potatoes are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes. That's just not true. Now for some parting advice: Look at the facts. Analyze the arguments. Think about the motives of the people who are telling you that World of Warcraft's an expert on everything from aardvarks to zymurgy. And have confidence in yourself. Remember, World of Warcraft's casus belli offer us nothing more than the same old snake oil in a shinier bottle.

I've read this like four times and I still have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Heh...honestly, I think he copy/pasted it from one of those sites that want to help make trolling on forums easier. I've seen this sort of thing on the SWTOR forums on occasion, being inserted in arguments about Jedi and Sith in an attempt to stir up nerdrage drama. But as of late they're getting wise about it so...

 

[Unguarded Toast]

One sentence: Massive interplanetary failure. Honestly, not one thing in the expansion makes sense lorewise.

Then of course, the majority of all those who played WoW for the (in the beginning) wonderful lore have already abandoned the sinking ship that is this game.
Some may argue that the game has gotten better in the terms of raiding and PvP; I cannot claim to debate on the PvP as it goes up and down all the time, from one class being OP to another, so any arguments I'd state would probably be outdated as of the next patch.

Raid, on the other hand, is one thing that is constantly becoming more lacking in quality content. As of TBC all sorts of 'make no sense' raids and bosses have been launched, sending you to kill of lore characters one by one on painfully frail bases.

 

[Biodisaster]

One sentence: Massive interplanetary failure. Honestly, not one thing in the expansion makes sense lorewise.

Then of course, the majority of all those who played WoW for the (in the beginning) wonderful lore have already abandoned the sinking ship that is this game.
Some may argue that the game has gotten better in the terms of raiding and PvP; I cannot claim to debate on the PvP as it goes up and down all the time, from one class being OP to another, so any arguments I'd state would probably be outdated as of the next patch.

Raid, on the other hand, is one thing that is constantly becoming more lacking in quality content. As of TBC all sorts of 'make no sense' raids and bosses have been launched, sending you to kill of lore characters one by one on painfully frail bases.

Or, if you have lore questions, you could try one of these. [http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626575587&sid=1]

40 mans weren't fun, I don't know why people keep trying to defend them. Half the raid was afk the entire time you were doing trash, sometimes even bosses, and trying to organize 40 people was an absolute nightmare.

The only raid I could see as being thrown in as a last minute thing was Trial of the Crusade, and even that made sense in the grand scheme of things. Everything else made plenty of sense lorewise.

I will say that I would have been much happier if ICC was more like BT in terms of atmosphere. I'm not entirely unhappy about the fact that ICC doesn't have BT's numerous amounts of trash, however.

/tips tophat

 

[Unguarded Toast]

One sentence: Massive interplanetary failure. Honestly, not one thing in the expansion makes sense lorewise.

Then of course, the majority of all those who played WoW for the (in the beginning) wonderful lore have already abandoned the sinking ship that is this game.
Some may argue that the game has gotten better in the terms of raiding and PvP; I cannot claim to debate on the PvP as it goes up and down all the time, from one class being OP to another, so any arguments I'd state would probably be outdated as of the next patch.

Raid, on the other hand, is one thing that is constantly becoming more lacking in quality content. As of TBC all sorts of 'make no sense' raids and bosses have been launched, sending you to kill of lore characters one by one on painfully frail bases.

Or, if you have lore questions, you could try one of these. [http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626575587&sid=1]

40 mans weren't fun, I don't know why people keep trying to defend them. Half the raid was afk the entire time you were doing trash, sometimes even bosses, and trying to organize 40 people was an absolute nightmare.

The only raid I could see as being thrown in as a last minute thing was Trial of the Crusade, and even that made sense in the grand scheme of things. Everything else made plenty of sense lorewise.

I will say that I would have been much happier if ICC was more like BT in terms of atmosphere. I'm not entirely unhappy about the fact that ICC doesn't have BT's numerous amounts of trash, however.

/tips tophat

Quite frankly, when we are on the subject of black temple and Illidan, I would say it is a prime example of the lack of effort blizzard puts into the lore nowdays. There was never a reason for the alliance to ever enter the dark portal in the first place and the reasons for why Illidan had somehow managed to gain control over an entier planet of demons makes even less sense, especially being a ->demon hunter<-.

As for the 40 man raids I honestly do not understand what there is to like, really. You claim that the raids were to hard? "Omigawd, a challange in WoW, ludicrus!" Truthfully, WoW has become something of a user friendly play-through thing that you can complete in a by far too short amount of time.

An example: It normally takes about two patches before an instance loses all of it's difficulty, mainly due to the constant stats raise of the floods of new equipment along with that they actually decreases the life, cool dowm time, and effectiveness of the bosses, making them even less difficult then they were to begin with, this despite having gained better equipment.

Also this tread is concerning Cataclysm, which is what I belive lacks logic in it's lore.

 

[Biodisaster]

Quite frankly, when we are on the subject of black temple and Illidan, I would say it is a prime example of the lack of effort blizzard puts into the lore nowdays. There was never a reason for the alliance to ever enter the dark portal in the first place and the reasons for why Illidan had somehow managed to gain control over an entier planet of demons makes even less sense, especially being a ->demon hunter<-.

I would highly recommend you look into picking up the War of the Ancients archive (despite my misgivings on Knaak's writing, it puts a lot into perspective) or play another run-through of WCIII. You're missing a lot of lore in between. Do you know how Illidan got to be the way he was? Why Maeiv was hunting him? Why the night elves in general rejected Illidan? Who Illidan even was before he absorbed his power?

The Burning Legion was/is a threat to every living race on Azeroth. Why wouldn't the Alliance seek to put the flame out, in addition to eliminating an enemy of the night elves (who just so happens to be a rogue agent of said Legion)?

As for the 40 man raids I honestly do not understand what there is to like, really. You claim that the raids were to hard? "Omigawd, a challange in WoW, ludicrus!" Truthfully, WoW has become something of a user friendly play-through thing that you can complete in a by far too short amount of time.

An example: It normally takes about two patches before an instance loses all of it's difficulty, mainly due to the constant stats raise of the floods of new equipment along with that they actually decreases the life, cool dowm time, and effectiveness of the bosses, making them even less difficult then they were to begin with, this despite having gained better equipment.

Also this tread is concerning Cataclysm, which is what I belive lacks logic in it's lore.

Never did I say the content was too hard. I have a druid in near-full heroic ICC 25 gear, and I've rather enjoyed the instance (and those before it) as a whole. What's wrong with being user-friendly? That's just part of catering to your fanbase. Like it or not, the majority of WoW players are not hardcore raiders. Blizzard isn't going to spend all their money making this content and have their core customers not see the final result (ESPECIALLY seeing as Arthas is involved -- who didn't want to see the conclusion of that?).

You forget that there is the option to remove Hellscream's Warsong/Varian's whatever-the-heck if you feel the content is too easy. But as you said, this thread isn't about that.

Cataclysm makes plenty of sense as well -- again, I would encourage you to pick up the novels to fill your holes in the lore. Deathwing's been brewing in Grim Batol for a number of years, he's pretty insane, and now with everyone distracted up in Northrend with the Lich King, he strikes. Worgen lore has been hinted at since the beginning with the quests involving the Greymane Wall (there's even a quest talking about a cure iirc). Goblins have many cartels and were previously members of the Horde. Wildhammer Dwarves? Highborne? The list goes on.

Its all been there -- Blizzard is simply picking up where it all left off.

 

[Shycte]

Quite frankly, when we are on the subject of black temple and Illidan, I would say it is a prime example of the lack of effort blizzard puts into the lore nowdays. There was never a reason for the alliance to ever enter the dark portal in the first place and the reasons for why Illidan had somehow managed to gain control over an entier planet of demons makes even less sense, especially being a ->demon hunter<-.

I would highly recommend you look into picking up the War of the Ancients archive (despite my misgivings on Knaak's writing, it puts a lot into perspective) or play another run-through of WCIII. You're missing a lot of lore in between. Do you know how Illidan got to be the way he was? Why Maeiv was hunting him? Why the night elves in general rejected Illidan? Who Illidan even was before he absorbed his power?

The Burning Legion was/is a threat to every living race on Azeroth. Why wouldn't the Alliance seek to put the flame out, in addition to eliminating an enemy of the night elves (who just so happens to be a rogue agent of said Legion)?

I beileve that Malfurion sais that he forgave Illidan because he saved Tyrande. Theredfor he did not follow him into Outland. Maeiv, crazy ***** that she is decided to don't give a fuck about her superiors orders and countinue to hunt Illidan. So, the nightelves have really no reason to hunt him down.

As for "a rouge agent for the Legion", that's not really fair. He's not trying to take over the world, just doing Kil'Jaedens dirty work taking care of the Lich King, which you know, is like a good thing.

 

[Biodisaster]

I beileve that Malfurion sais that he forgave Illidan because he saved Tyrande. Theredfor he did not follow him into Outland. Maeiv, crazy ***** that she is decided to don't give a fuck about her superiors orders and countinue to hunt Illidan. So, the nightelves have really no reason to hunt him down.

Correct -- but just because Malfurion personally forgave him does not mean his reputation with the rest of the night elves was washed away. He tried to build another Well of Eternity not long after the first one exploded. There is no way any night elf in their right mind would sympathize with him. Maeiv is a bit crazy, I will grant you that, and she's doing this more for herself than for the rest of her race, but there is no reason they wouldn't support her.

As for "a rouge agent for the Legion", that's not really fair. He's not trying to take over the world, just doing Kil'Jaedens dirty work taking care of the Lich King, which you know, is like a good thing.

It may not be fair, but its true. He was set out to complete that last task, and he failed. So what did he do? He fled to Outland, imprisoned Magtheridon (who was supposed to be the original Lord of Outland), and claimed it for himself. Then he hid in a temple when Kil'jaeden came after him anyway. He was an agent gone rogue -- in it for the power, not for the cause.

 

[Shycte]

I beileve that Malfurion sais that he forgave Illidan because he saved Tyrande. Theredfor he did not follow him into Outland. Maeiv, crazy ***** that she is decided to don't give a fuck about her superiors orders and countinue to hunt Illidan. So, the nightelves have really no reason to hunt him down.

Correct -- but just because Malfurion personally forgave him does not mean his reputation with the rest of the night elves was washed away. He tried to build another Well of Eternity not long after the first one exploded. There is no way any night elf in their right mind would sympathize with him. Maeiv is a bit crazy, I will grant you that, and she's doing this more for herself than for the rest of her race, but there is no reason they wouldn't support her.

As for "a rouge agent for the Legion", that's not really fair. He's not trying to take over the world, just doing Kil'Jaedens dirty work taking care of the Lich King, which you know, is like a good thing.

It may not be fair, but its true. He was set out to complete that last task, and he failed. So what did he do? He fled to Outland, imprisoned Magtheridon (who was supposed to be the original Lord of Outland), and claimed it for himself. Then he hid in a temple when Kil'jaeden came after him anyway. He was an agent gone rogue -- in it for the power, not for the cause.

Nah, I can't really follow you there. Maybe we just disagree about how the Alliance would react to this situation.

 

[Unguarded Toast]

I beileve that Malfurion sais that he forgave Illidan because he saved Tyrande. Theredfor he did not follow him into Outland. Maeiv, crazy ***** that she is decided to don't give a fuck about her superiors orders and countinue to hunt Illidan. So, the nightelves have really no reason to hunt him down.

Correct -- but just because Malfurion personally forgave him does not mean his reputation with the rest of the night elves was washed away. He tried to build another Well of Eternity not long after the first one exploded. There is no way any night elf in their right mind would sympathize with him. Maeiv is a bit crazy, I will grant you that, and she's doing this more for herself than for the rest of her race, but there is no reason they wouldn't support her.

As for "a rouge agent for the Legion", that's not really fair. He's not trying to take over the world, just doing Kil'Jaedens dirty work taking care of the Lich King, which you know, is like a good thing.

It may not be fair, but its true. He was set out to complete that last task, and he failed. So what did he do? He fled to Outland, imprisoned Magtheridon (who was supposed to be the original Lord of Outland), and claimed it for himself. Then he hid in a temple when Kil'jaeden came after him anyway. He was an agent gone rogue -- in it for the power, not for the cause.

First off, you are sadly mistaken. Illidan did first set his path to the frozen throne only to fail there, after taking control of Outland Kil'jeaden once again approached him and gave him another chance. Evidently, he failed this time too and returned to Outland to hide from Kil'jeaden. Illidan had not gone rogue, he simply wanted to hide from the the promise of "eternal wrath" after being unable to do the task set before him. Therefor, he would presumeably have taken precausions to attract as little attention as possible, annihelating the chances of that he would have attempted to invade Azeroth since that world is the only world the legion has failed to conquer. Being well aware of this, Illidan would know that they were keeping a close watch over it.

Also, in order to open a gate of the magnitude that the Dark portal is in you need two powerful forces on each side of the gateway. With Mediv dead and no one powerful enough on the other side it is impossible for them to have reopened the portal, thus destroying the oppertunity for what did actually happen in the Azeroth story progression.

Basicly; Illidan was and is no threat, giving zero reasons for going after him.

And yes, you may argue that the Night elfs would have been interested in doing so due to the fact that Maiev was trapped on the other side, however, according to lore the night elf frowned upon her over-zealous chase after 'the betrayer' and thus lack the motive for going to assist her. (Not even other wardens thought good of what she choose to do.)

 

[Unguarded Toast]

Quite frankly, when we are on the subject of black temple and Illidan, I would say it is a prime example of the lack of effort blizzard puts into the lore nowdays. There was never a reason for the alliance to ever enter the dark portal in the first place and the reasons for why Illidan had somehow managed to gain control over an entier planet of demons makes even less sense, especially being a ->demon hunter<-.

I would highly recommend you look into picking up the War of the Ancients archive (despite my misgivings on Knaak's writing, it puts a lot into perspective) or play another run-through of WCIII. You're missing a lot of lore in between. Do you know how Illidan got to be the way he was? Why Maeiv was hunting him? Why the night elves in general rejected Illidan? Who Illidan even was before he absorbed his power?

The Burning Legion was/is a threat to every living race on Azeroth. Why wouldn't the Alliance seek to put the flame out, in addition to eliminating an enemy of the night elves (who just so happens to be a rogue agent of said Legion)?

As for the 40 man raids I honestly do not understand what there is to like, really. You claim that the raids were to hard? "Omigawd, a challange in WoW, ludicrus!" Truthfully, WoW has become something of a user friendly play-through thing that you can complete in a by far too short amount of time.

An example: It normally takes about two patches before an instance loses all of it's difficulty, mainly due to the constant stats raise of the floods of new equipment along with that they actually decreases the life, cool dowm time, and effectiveness of the bosses, making them even less difficult then they were to begin with, this despite having gained better equipment.

Also this tread is concerning Cataclysm, which is what I belive lacks logic in it's lore.

Never did I say the content was too hard. I have a druid in near-full heroic ICC 25 gear, and I've rather enjoyed the instance (and those before it) as a whole. What's wrong with being user-friendly? That's just part of catering to your fanbase. Like it or not, the majority of WoW players are not hardcore raiders. Blizzard isn't going to spend all their money making this content and have their core customers not see the final result (ESPECIALLY seeing as Arthas is involved -- who didn't want to see the conclusion of that?).

You forget that there is the option to remove Hellscream's Warsong/Varian's whatever-the-heck if you feel the content is too easy. But as you said, this thread isn't about that.

Cataclysm makes plenty of sense as well -- again, I would encourage you to pick up the novels to fill your holes in the lore. Deathwing's been brewing in Grim Batol for a number of years, he's pretty insane, and now with everyone distracted up in Northrend with the Lich King, he strikes. Worgen lore has been hinted at since the beginning with the quests involving the Greymane Wall (there's even a quest talking about a cure iirc). Goblins have many cartels and were previously members of the Horde. Wildhammer Dwarves? Highborne? The list goes on.

Its all been there -- Blizzard is simply picking up where it all left off.

Honestly, you do know he never really were in Grim batol, only used the orcs occupying themselfs there, right? Also, he was defeated at first in a co-joined strike by all the aspects. -After- that, he went to lick his wounds in Deepholm. Now, let us look at the behavior of Deathwing from earlier occations he has been seen in lore: First it was when he forged the demonsoul, a deciteful attempt which was succeful and led to large casulties on all flights, later to be stolen by Malfurion.
After that, he made an appearance when battling an arch mage of the Kirin'tor, feigning his death, he pummeled into the ocean letting everyone belive he was gone forever. In truth, he took the guise of Lord Daval Prestor in an attempt to provoke the kingdoms of Alterac and Lordaeron into war, yet another attempt made in the fashion of dreadlords, silently attempting to scheme unnoticed.
In his third appearance he persuaded the orc clan living in Grim batol to use the demon soul (as he no longer could) and wield it against the alliance, another occation where he attempts to have two factions kill themselfs off so he himself may enter only once they had obliderated themselfs.

And now, you honestly belive it reasonable that he'd decide to send a quake throughout the whole of Azeroth, abandoning his previous way of action for a reckless and highly provoking attack on all the inhabitants of the world. Frankly, an attack such as this one is illogical and plainly stupid in every viewable perspective and as Deathwing has always been portraited as cunning, this makes no sense.

 

[addeB]

Yes! Awesome I got beta access!

 

[Talens]

Maybe now someone will finally be able to explain the good parts about this expansion to me. So far it's just been "durrr flying mounts in azeroth, yeahhhhhhhh", which is a negative.

Thumbs crossed for more educated arguments from now on!

Uh, the fact that they're going back to the old world to make the 1-60 questing content as good as their 70-80 questing content with all the stuff they've learned, like phasing et al? That they're going back and making the leveling process much better so the quests don't suck as much? (I don't know if you've gone back and done the old-world quests but after TBC and WotLK leveling a new character or getting your achievements is downright painful).

That they're actually putting effort into making Azeroth a dynamic world and not a place where nothing ever changes?

I mean, this is just stuff on the surface. But frankly, the idea of it alone sounds fantastic, and is a marked change from "LOL NEW PLACE HERE'S TEN MORE LEVELS."

I will try to describe World of Warcraft's doctrines in such a way that my language will not offend and yet will still convey my message that World of Warcraft's gormless, twisted false-flag operations were forged in the crucible of commercialism. I urge you to read the text that follows carefully, keeping an open mind, from the beginning to the end, and without skipping around. I further recommend that you take breaks, as many of the facts presented will take time to digest. Despite total incompetence, World of Warcraft is often afflicted with an amazing conceit that causes it to mold the mind of virtually every citizen?young or old, rich or poor, simple or sophisticated.

World of Warcraft is not the only one who needs to reassess its assumptions. Think about egocentric swaggerers. They too should realize that World of Warcraft dreams of a time when they'll be free to rot our minds with the hallucinatory drug of mysticism. That's the way it's planned it, and that's the way it'll happen?not may happen but will happen?if we don't interfere, if we don't establish a supportive?rather than an intimidating?atmosphere for offering public comment. World of Warcraft has long wanted to prevent anyone from stating publicly that its language consists largely of euphemism, question-begging, and sheer, cloudy vagueness. Why do I bring that up? Because by studying its repression of ideas in its extreme, unambiguous form one may more clearly understand why throughout history, there has been a clash between those who wish to improve the lot of humankind and those who wish to remake the world to suit its own incoherent needs. Naturally, World of Warcraft belongs to the latter category.

I hope that humanity will rid this earth of crabby slobs with the greatest dispatch, since otherwise, the earth might well become rid of humanity. There are arguments that have made respectable organizations out of calumniators like World of Warcraft. So don't feed me any phony baloney about how unsavory couch potatoes are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes. That's just not true. Now for some parting advice: Look at the facts. Analyze the arguments. Think about the motives of the people who are telling you that World of Warcraft's an expert on everything from aardvarks to zymurgy. And have confidence in yourself. Remember, World of Warcraft's casus belli offer us nothing more than the same old snake oil in a shinier bottle.

I've read this like four times and I still have no idea what point you're trying to make.

you're not the only one there

 

[Biodisaster]

And now, you honestly belive it reasonable that he'd decide to send a quake throughout the whole of Azeroth, abandoning his previous way of action for a reckless and highly provoking attack on all the inhabitants of the world. Frankly, an attack such as this one is illogical and plainly stupid in every viewable perspective and as Deathwing has always been portraited as cunning, this makes no sense.

Perfectly, considering his first act after going insane was to raise mountain sides and send earthquakes through Azeroth to start wars. Did you expect him to simple sit idle in his corner of defeat and not do anything while the Lich King occupied everyone's attention?

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye, considering I think you're completely way off base in regards to Illidan as a character. He acts WAY before he thinks things through, its shown many many times through the story, especially when power is involved. Nothing about him is subtle at all. Maybe I used the wrong terminology, but you basically said what I was trying to say as far as Illidan and the Burning Legion went. Regardless of whether or not he was actively serving them, he still served them. That's not exactly a forgivable offense (unless you're Thrall).

Did I personally think he would have tried to consume all of Azeroth? Not really. But does that mean the rest of Azeroth would have felt that way after seeing what lengths he would go to in order to obtain power? Of course not.

You have to think in terms of the people reacting to the environment and less from the omniscient perspective you're taking, where you know everything that occurred.

 

[Unguarded Toast]

And now, you honestly belive it reasonable that he'd decide to send a quake throughout the whole of Azeroth, abandoning his previous way of action for a reckless and highly provoking attack on all the inhabitants of the world. Frankly, an attack such as this one is illogical and plainly stupid in every viewable perspective and as Deathwing has always been portraited as cunning, this makes no sense.

Perfectly, considering his first act after going insane was to raise mountain sides and send earthquakes through Azeroth to start wars. Did you expect him to simple sit idle in his corner of defeat and not do anything while the Lich King occupied everyone's attention?

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye, considering I think you're completely way off base in regards to Illidan as a character. He acts WAY before he thinks things through, its shown many many times through the story, especially when power is involved. Nothing about him is subtle at all. Maybe I used the wrong terminology, but you basically said what I was trying to say as far as Illidan and the Burning Legion went. Regardless of whether or not he was actively serving them, he still served them. That's not exactly a forgivable offense (unless you're Thrall).

Did I personally think he would have tried to consume all of Azeroth? Not really. But does that mean the rest of Azeroth would have felt that way after seeing what lengths he would go to in order to obtain power? Of course not.

You have to think in terms of the people reacting to the environment and less from the omniscient perspective you're taking, where you know everything that occurred.

For starters, the only time Deathwing has ever personally made an assult towards the world in person was when he was absolutely sure of victory, namingly when he was in possession of the Demon Soul.
Continueing: Frankly, the world itself was not very active in the entier Lich King assult as it was only the few people who were personally involved with Arthas before and after his transformation that mustered an army to combat him. As for the tauren's, draenei, troll and gnomes they pretty much just got by on a corner.
And as for Illidan I belive it is quite clear that he does fear the wrath of Kil'jeaden so he has little reasons to leave his fortress.
Also, I do wonder who is omniscient on this given the fact that the majority of the worlds population would not be aware of Illidan's deeds. Really, only the night-and blood elfs would know he even existed, this apart from a few individuals of other races whom may have heard of him. So, are you claiming that you find it realistic that two factions would unite on a common front based upon a few rumors of a night elf with demonic appearance?
The night elf's lack a reason for trying to have the alliance go after him as he promised the two people who lead their entier civilization that he would never return.
The blood elf's owe him in large for having a major fraction of their society rebuilt (this being the order of paladins), along with how he gave them something to feed of in their time of desperation, presumebly saving quite a large amount from turning to wretches. So they do too lack reasons for having the horde go after him.
And if none of those factions confirm his existance openly there would be no reason to go back to Dreanor.

To quote yourself: "You have to think in terms of the people reacting to the environment and less from the omniscient perspective you're taking, where you know everything that occurred."

 

[Biodisaster]

Continueing: Frankly, the world itself was not very active in the entier Lich King assult as it was only the few people who were personally involved with Arthas before and after his transformation that mustered an army to combat him. As for the tauren's, draenei, troll and gnomes they pretty much just got by on a corner.

Uh...what? Are you kidding me? So the Lich King didn't kill anyone apart of those races during the entire span of Wrath of the Lich King, and all of those races would have absolutely no problem with him killing everyone else, spreading disease, and virtually attempting to bring Azeroth to its knees?

I'm sorry, I don't follow you.

And as for Illidan I belive it is quite clear that he does fear the wrath of Kil'jeaden so he has little reasons to leave his fortress.

Of course not, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he doesn't think things through. Its said several times that he fled to Outland to avoid Kil'jaeden, I wasn't debating that anywhere.

Also, I do wonder who is omniscient on this given the fact that the majority of the worlds population would not be aware of Illidan's deeds.

The blood elves and the night elves are part of the Horde and the Alliance. So they're just gonna let Illidan run free after swearing intelligence to the Burning Legion? After how much contact both the Sin'dorei and the Kaldorei have had with demons?

Sorry, again, I can't follow you.

To quote yourself: "You have to think in terms of the people reacting to the environment and less from the omniscient perspective you're taking, where you know everything that occurred."

I do know everything that occurred, sure. Nobody is going to know the bits and pieces that happened with say, Furion and him regarding Tyrande. But everything I've mentioned, about him swearing to the Burning Legion and whatnot? Everyone is going to know that. Because people tell you.

We didn't just charge into Outland just for Illidan either, you know. Gotta take that into consideration.