Xbox One Exec Acknowledges Failure to Communicate

Saltyk

Sane among the insane.
Sep 12, 2010
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No, you guys communicated. You communicated all too well. You showed your true colors. And people rejected it.

shintakie10 said:
Wasn't the petition started in order to get the sharing of digital library games back since MSoft pulled support for that idea when they took away the DRM?

The loss of the DRM took away a lot of things, very good and awesome things that didn't get enough attention. Accessin digital libraries from anywhere on your account. Not needin discs in the drive to play non digital games. Really cool ideas that got axed because apparently MSoft felt that if they couldn't 100% guarantee someone wasn't a dirty pirate then no one got the cool toys.
Small thing about not needing a disk. You would need to download the full game to the system. That would take time. So you'd come home from the store and want to play your game? Too bad. Wait one hour. Maybe it'll be ready. Which completely undermines one of the tenants of console gaming. Pick up and play. And the system has a 500 Gigabit hard-drive, which can't be removed. How many full games will that hold?

cricket chirps said:
-__- has anyone even looked at the petition?

It's people trying to get microsoft to add those things back to make their console fail. Seriously, go read what people are saying on/about the petition. They are almost all saying they just want to see microsoft screw up again by adding those terrible ideas back.
Not gonna lie, I was upset about the 180. Not because I liked the ideas, but because they are so bad that they need to be seen as salting the Earth. I wanted the Xbox One to launch with those features, crash and burn. To be so bad that all future console developers would realize that a console with those same features would be doomed to failure. So that no one else will try to implement online requirements and DRM.

Now, I fear, they will only think that we weren't "ready for the future" of gaming. And maybe next time, no one will care. And considering what we've seen, I'm not hopeful.
 

imagremlin

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Nov 19, 2007
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Ah, gotta love corporate speak. When the speaker knows he's talking crap, the reporter knows he's hearing crap, the editor knows is publishing crap and we all know what we're reading.

Nothing to see here, move on.
 

IamLEAM1983

Neloth's got swag.
Aug 22, 2011
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cricket chirps said:
-__- has anyone even looked at the petition?

It's people trying to get microsoft to add those things back to make their console fail. Seriously, go read what people are saying on/about the petition. They are almost all saying they just want to see microsoft screw up again by adding those terrible ideas back.
The thing is, not every gamer bothers to keep on the up-and-up about his or her rights. A lot of supposedly hardcore types are frighteningly casual, when you dig into their awareness of the corporate sides of the culture. You find a complete lack of it in most cases; as though MS, Sony et al. were nothing but merchants of hopes and peddlers of dreams and guilt-free fun times. The people who actually support the petition aren't the same who've bothered to try and figure out just what the Hell DRM means - these are the people who are angry that a few very superficial convenient aspects got taken away.

Dig around, and you'll find the usual cries of "BUT MY GAME SHARING! I WANT MY GAME SHARING BACK BECAUSE IT WAS NEW!", in complete ignorance of the 30-day policy between friends or of the fact that this effectively enforced and supported the Xbone as an always-online device. There's also the usual droves of fairly entitled idiots who have trouble understanding that not everyone has access to a top-tier broadband connection, simply because they and their close circle of friends and relatives all do own an ADSL or cable connection.

What *we* know is that sometimes, it's better to be a bit on the retrograde side of things. There's one heck of a difference between fearing change and fearing that your rights as a consumer are going to be trampled in the name of some vapid and frilly features - as well as the corporate wallets out there.

Saltyk said:
Not gonna lie, I was upset about the 180. Not because I liked the ideas, but because they are so bad that they need to be seen as salting the Earth. I wanted the Xbox One to launch with those features, crash and burn. To be so bad that all future console developers would realize that a console with those same features would be doomed to failure. So that no one else will try to implement online requirements and DRM.

Now, I fear, they will only think that we weren't "ready for the future" of gaming. And maybe next time, no one will care. And considering what we've seen, I'm not hopeful.
I can share the sentiment, but I doubt it would've turned out like this. A big share of gamers don't even come to sites like this one and, like I said, a lot don't bother to stay abreast of the development process or legal aspects of a game's early lifespan. All they care about is more of their favourite franchise. They'll gladly let their rights be trampled, they'd come in big enough numbers to vindicate Microsoft in its choices - and they wouldn't voice the slightest complaint.

Why? They just don't give a shit. All they want is more Halo, more CoD, more whatever. They would've had it, even with the Xbone's pre-reversal incarnation.

Considering, I'm glad the policy reversal happened. It's more or less the lesser of two evils, and it might educate those careless gamers out there on the necessity to keep an eye out for crotchety practices.

As an aside, I know a guy who very honestly loves The War Z. He's not a hacker or a troll or anything like that - the game just fit his standards and his wallet. It's a shame, but this is why I said we need to educate the rest of us.

Gaming isn't just a wee hobby anymore. I think it requires its own form of consumer advocacy.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Sep 6, 2009
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Andy Chalk said:
Remember how angry gamers were about the Xbox One in the wake of Microsoft's E3 press event? Angry enough to force Microsoft to change direction on some very fundamental aspects of the console's design. It was a victory for consumers - a victory for freedom! - and then a funny thing happened: People (presumably other people) got angry that Microsoft capitulated and gave up on its a vision of a better future for all of us, and launched a surprisingly popular petition [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125858-Xbox-One-Fans-Petition-For-The-Return-Of-DRM] to bring it all back.
I think digital is a good way to go, eventually. But, I can't help but think that the people behind this petition have absolutely no idea just how bad the Internet infrastructure is in most countries. Or that it wouldn't support the Xbone's old stripped out features.
 

KeyMaster45

Gone Gonzo
Jun 16, 2008
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Saltyk said:
And the system has a 500 Gigabit hard-drive, which can't be removed. How many full games will that hold?
It would hold about two or three AAA games or maybe only one if it's really big, since a 500 Gigabit hard drive would only equate about 59 Gigabytes[footnote]There are 8 bits in a byte, 1024 bytes in a Kilobyte, 1024 Kilobytes in a Megabyte, 1024 Megabytes in a Gigabyte, and 1024 Gigabytes in a Terabyte. A bit and a byte are not the same thing.[/footnote] of storage. Now a 500 Gigabyte hard drive would hold about ten games if we assume that next gen games will be about that size (as I've heard in rumors), and that would only be if you could use the entire 500gigs as storage space; which you can't.
 

Saltyk

Sane among the insane.
Sep 12, 2010
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KeyMaster45 said:
Saltyk said:
And the system has a 500 Gigabit hard-drive, which can't be removed. How many full games will that hold?
It would hold about two or three AAA games or maybe only one if it's really big, since a 500 Gigabit hard drive would only equate about 59 Gigabytes[footnote]There are 8 bits in a byte, 1024 bytes in a Kilobyte, 1024 Kilobytes in a Megabyte, 1024 Megabytes in a Gigabyte, and 1024 Gigabytes in a Terabyte. A bit and a byte are not the same thing.[/footnote] of storage. Now a 500 Gigabyte hard drive would hold about ten games if we assume that next gen games will be about that size (as I've heard in rumors), and that would only be if you could use the entire 500gigs as storage space; which you can't.
Oops. Used the wrong term. Spell check doesn't catch that kind of thing (and it totally should).

Anyway, that's another point. Add in the OS, Kinect's programming, game saves, browser, Skype, TV related things, and whatever Apps you have on it, and how much of that 500 Gigabyte will be left? Even assuming it could hold ten games, how many people have more than ten games?

Sure, you could delete them off the hard-drive after the fact, but then, if you ever wanna play them again, you have to download them all over. You know what's great about all my old systems? I can plug them in, pop in a game, and play. Something that is lost in Xbox One.
 

oldtaku

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Jan 7, 2011
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Yes, you were very bad at communicating, but the best you could have done is polish the turd better.

There was nothing good forconsumers about 24 hour forced checkin (and eventual total system death when servers are shut down) or adding no-use DRM to disk based games.
 

Callate

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Dec 5, 2008
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I think it's worth pointing out that two of the most popular "signatures" on this "surprisingly popular" petition include such lines as:

I don't want to let my friends borrow games, because fuck them. All I care about is my god damn new age console that'll blow everything else out of the water! Fuck the PS4 and fuck those Sony guys for catering to fans who care about their gaming experience.
and

It's so important so that the Xbox one is shittier again
...

Are there people who were genuinely interested in some of Microsoft's digital features? Yes, absolutely.

Are they anything like a majority, or even a significant minority...? No, and probably not. And even of the ones who liked some of those features, there seems to be an awful lot of picking and choosing from the earlier policies. "Oh, it's great it's no longer region locked, but I want to be able to share games digitally!... I'm glad I'll be able to trade in physical games again, but I want always-on networking for cloud computing options!" And so on. If you're looking for people who whole-heartedly supported everything Microsoft was bringing to bear, you're going to be looking at a sub-group of a sub-group of a fringe.

Admittedly, I'm biased. I'm still not 100% sold on the "inevitability" of this all-digital marketplace- and I'm sure as hell not interested in the version Microsoft wants to own.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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tippy2k2 said:
You think?

At the pre-E3 press conference, you could ask five different Microsoft reps the same question and get five different answers. Even after they clarified some of the stuff at E3, there were a LOT of questions that they just, for whatever reason, felt were not worth answering.

The Xbox One had some neat potential but you needed to convince us that the negatives (DRM, Kinect, etc.) were outweighed by the positives (Cloud gaming....and...uh.....I'm sure there's more). You failed. You not only failed, you failed in the most spectacular way you could.

You were the heavy favorites in this next-gen boxing match and not only did you not even get into the ring, you fell over and knocked yourself out on the ring post when you were show-boating coming in...also, your pants fell down before a bird flew into the arena and pooped on your head.
So they pulled a Ultimo Dragon?

Okay, that's unfair to Ultimo. All he did was trip on his cape.
 

NoeL

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May 14, 2011
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This one cracked me up:
LETS C WHAT MS PROMISED 4 XBOX1:

1) DRM (???)

2) TV

3) SPORTS

4) CALL OF DUTY DOG

NOW W/ NO DRM = BAD TV, WEAK SPORTS. I THINK WE STILL GUD W/ COD DOG (MAYBE) BUT IF U LIKE TV N SPORTS SIGN THISSS
Obvious troll, but the COD dog bit had me in stitches.
 

MCerberus

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Jun 26, 2013
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Microsoft... want to communicate to me why you think it's acceptable to have your system be $100 more expensive because of a negative-value device that I'm not sure I can actual set up anywhere where I have my console?

Want to communicate why no two people in your PR structure have the same answer to some basic questions?
Want to communicate why you tried to kill my method for choosing what games I buy (rentals as demos)?
 

Freyar

Solar Empire General
May 9, 2008
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... except the petition wasn't a real one and was trolled to hell?
 
Sep 24, 2008
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ObsidianJones said:
I get humor, but people need to wise up about signing it for the lulz. If anything, recent events shows us that people don't get 'internet jokes'. Justin Carter, anyone? Be as funny and hilarious and irrevlant as you want. The Rest of the World doesn't get. your. humor.

You are on the fast track of erasing a victory, however marginal it is. You will get Microsoft employees (whoever is replacing Don) seeing these numbers as just proof they were right. I mean, they looked at the number of people who connected to Xbox live per day and figured that means everyone has a great internet connection and would never mind checking in once per day to play the games they supposedly bought.

Do not joke with morons. They lack the capacity to understand.
It's undoubtedly a frustrating situation, but Whitten took a measured approach in an interview with IGN, saying that Microsoft has to "talk more [and] get people understanding what our system is."

"I see people feeling like we've moved away from digital, when certainly I don't believe that's the case. I believe we've added on choice for people. It was an addition of a feature onto Xbox One, not a removal of a feature," he said. "And I understand people see things like Family Sharing and they're like, 'Wow, I was really looking forward to that,' which is more of an engineering reality time frame type-thing."

Whitten said the petition calling for the return of the Xbox One as it was originally envisioned reflects a problem with the perception of what Microsoft is doing more than anything else. "When I read some of the things like that petition, from my perspective we took a lot of the feedback and, while Xbox One is built to be digital native, to have this amazing online experience, we realized people wanted some choice. They wanted what I like to call a bridge, sort of how they think about the world today using more digital stuff," he explained. "What we did, we added to what the console can do by providing physical and offline modes in the console. It isn't about moving away from what that digital vision is for the platform. It's about adding that choice."
I said it. I freaking called it the second I read how so many people thought it would be for the lulz to troll and sign this thing. And you guys did it anyway, and now they are rethinking things.

Great. Keep doing what you're all doing. It was so funny in the moment and you gave stupid people more fuel for the fire. Lovely.
 

Fox12

AccursedT- see you space cowboy
Jun 6, 2013
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tippy2k2 said:
You think?

At the pre-E3 press conference, you could ask five different Microsoft reps the same question and get five different answers. Even after they clarified some of the stuff at E3, there were a LOT of questions that they just, for whatever reason, felt were not worth answering.

The Xbox One had some neat potential but you needed to convince us that the negatives (DRM, Kinect, etc.) were outweighed by the positives (Cloud gaming....and...uh.....I'm sure there's more). You failed. You not only failed, you failed in the most spectacular way you could.

You were the heavy favorites in this next-gen boxing match and not only did you not even get into the ring, you fell over and knocked yourself out on the ring post when you were show-boating coming in...also, your pants fell down before a bird flew into the arena and pooped on your head.
Not to mention the other boxer had just given the greatest underdog speech in the history of the sport, and had rabble roused the entire stadium to his side.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Saltyk said:
Anyway, that's another point. Add in the OS, Kinect's programming, game saves, browser, Skype, TV related things, and whatever Apps you have on it, and how much of that 500 Gigabyte will be left? Even assuming it could hold ten games, how many people have more than ten games?
I'm assuming the number is based on the usual "1 GB=1000 MB" system used for advertising, so I'm assuming formatting will bring it down quite a bit in itself. Saves and apps like Skype and Netflix tend to be small, but you're already looking at a sizable chunk off for the marketing. TV functionality will probably eat up a fair share if you use it.

To the question of "who has more than ten games?" The average software attach rated a year or two into the Xbox 360's life was 7 games. Now, even assuming that was ignoring multiple console purchases for dead consoles (RROD was common and before the extended warranty led to quite a few new systems), you'd think Microsoft would hope for a repeat (or better). And that's two years into the life cycle.

Assuming a system space no larger than the current one, and games near ot at 50 GB in size, that's still only 9 games and change available. For a system that's supposed to be TEH FYEWCHUR! That's not very future proof.

Now, I suppose there's an issue of whether or not that's fair. After all, I suppose the question is "how many people play ten concurrent games?"

On the one hand, there's the fact you already pointed out: if you want to play a game again, you have to reinstall. Plus, you have to delete and install new games, period. And honestly, if I'm going to have to download and install games, I'd rather do it for my new, shiny PC. Well, new and shiny in the sense I upgraded most of it. On the other, more and more people seem to be treating games as disposable. If you only play play a game, and effectively chuck it, does it matter? Probably not.

But then, I don't know the ratio of disposable games to keepers, so....
 

Requiem191

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Nov 9, 2010
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I'll just copy paste here what I said in the facebook comments of this article.

"I believe we've added on choice for people; we realized people wanted some choice; it's about adding that choice (between offline and online modes)."

I'm sorry, forgive me for being so blunt here, but why the fuck was it so difficult for a billion dollar company to realize their consumers would want choice! Microsoft basically won the last generation with the 360, or at least they won it against Sony for the longest time /by having a console that was actively online and offline all at the consumer's whim just because that fucking makes sense/. Everything worked. Everything was fine. It might have cost a bit much, but damn, almost everything out there that's worth money costs a little too much (mainly just due to universal greed, but I digress).

Honestly, all of this crap worked. It worked fine, it worked well enough and the only thing that really didn't do all that well for MS was the Kinect... so... they decide to do the opposite of what they were doing, focus solely on trying to make the Kinect awesome all while adding DRM that of course people didn't want. Then they backtrack, fix their "mistakes", and then they basically flat out state, "Oh, darn, consumers want choice? However could we have guessed that?" Honestly, something's not right about this whole scenario. It's just too fucking stupid.
 
Dec 16, 2009
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Saltyk said:
Small thing about not needing a disk. You would need to download the full game to the system. That would take time. So you'd come home from the store and want to play your game? Too bad. Wait one hour. Maybe it'll be ready. Which completely undermines one of the tenants of console gaming. Pick up and play. And the system has a 500 Gigabit hard-drive, which can't be removed. How many full games will that hold?
not that its an exact science, but im using about 500 GB in space for my pc games and i have 52 installed.
OS installed on a seperate SSD. so it'd depend how much of that 500GB MS are offering would be for downloads etc and how much is firmware dedicated. either way, hope it gives you a bench mark