Xbox One Exec Acknowledges Failure to Communicate

[Alpargata Metalica]

I wonder if microsoft did really read that petition. Most people there are just trolling.

 

[TomWiley]

Still not convinced that this "petition" isn't done by hardcore Sony fans to completely destroy Microsoft.

Yes, because obviously "losing" the console war against Sony would completely destroy Microsoft, what with games and the Xbox being about five percent of their revenue stream.

 

[TomWiley]

Snip.

A demo lets you get a glimpse of the game before it's out to encourage you to buy it when it comes out. If the game is already out, it gives you a glimpse of the game then says "buy this". I don't see how it's misleading to call what that link describes a "glorified demo" since...that's really what it would do: let you play the game for a bit then say "buy this".

Either way, one can assume that sharing a game with up to ten people; anyone, anywhere, was never gonna be the full game for all foreseeable future. That system would be absolutely disastrous. The notion that you'd be able to buy a game and then just give the full game to ten friends is retarded, and I doubt (and hope) that nobody actually thought that this is how it would work. At least I assumed there was some kind of time-limit as to how long you can play before you have to pay for the thing. Sounds reasonable to me if you compare it to, let's say Steam, which doesn't offer any sharing to begin with and people seem fine with that.

Beyond that, you said yourself that it would be a disastrous business plan to let people share the full game with one another with no drawbacks, sooooo even if that wasn't a real MS employee describing how the system would work that....kinda implies that that's exactly how it would work: allow the "borrower" to play the game for a while before asking them if they'd like to buy the full version.

The reason Steam doesn't offer any sharing at all is because it really would be nothing but a glorified demo. Why bother letting people share a game that can only be played for a short time period before they're asked to buy the full game when there's already demos of games that do the exact same thing?

So really, even by your own admission, regardless of if that post from a "heartbroken MS employee" was a hoax or not, that's really the only way the system COULD work. It's all a smoke-screen either way you look at it. At worst it's an attempt to get free advertising off the consumers, while at best it's just a complete wash: nothing is lost or gained for the consumer at all.

Alright, so there first thing we seem to disagree on here is the difference between a demo and getting to play the full game in 45 minutes. Because for me, that difference is huge. The OP from the thread linked the text and summarized it by saying that it basically let's you share a commercial demo, which as I wrote in my last pose, is misleading.

Now, it doesn't matter if it's a hoax or not, and I noted that we don't know the reliability of the source more as a sidenote. A would freaking love a system which allows me to let my friend play the first 45 minutes of The Last of Us to see if it's any good. He'd get immersed and would probably buy the game if he enjoys it. That's a perfect social feature which allows you to share an experience with a friend which at the same time does not allow for the system to be abused. A demo, on the other hand, is more often than not not a part of the real game. It's more like a mini-game which demonstrates the basic mechanics, let's you play one level or part of the map or give you a limited amount of characters or cars to whatever to chose from. It's like a bad, watered-down reflection of the real game, and often a pretty lousy experience (at least if you ask me). Or, in the case of Mirror's Edge, a misleading and false representation. It's a reason it's called a "demonstration" rather than trial or something like that.

But the full game limited to 45 minutes is something else entirely. That's a good deal, one that I would very much love to use with my friends.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

What you just described, my friend, is indeed not a demo...it's a "glorified demo". The keyword being "glorified". Yes, you have full access as though you had the game for 45 minutes, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a trial-run to tempt you to buy the game...that is to say: a demo.

 

[RicoADF]

Wasn't the petition started in order to get the sharing of digital library games back since MSoft pulled support for that idea when they took away the DRM?

The loss of the DRM took away a lot of things, very good and awesome things that didn't get enough attention. Accessin digital libraries from anywhere on your account. Not needin discs in the drive to play non digital games. Really cool ideas that got axed because apparently MSoft felt that if they couldn't 100% guarantee someone wasn't a dirty pirate then no one got the cool toys.

There was never going to be sharing of games as people seem to think there would, regardless MS has already said it will be back just not avaliable on release day as they need to change the system.

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

Snip.

What you just described, my friend, is indeed not a demo...it's a "glorified demo". The keyword being "glorified". Yes, you have full access as though you had the game for 45 minutes, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a trial-run to tempt you to buy the game...that is to say: a demo.

Stop me if I'm on the wrong track, but doesn't Steam sometimes put certain games on the 'free to play' list for a weekend so that people can try a game out before they buy it? Personally, I'd use that example in your argument.

For example, if you have slow and limited internet, there's really no point downloading, say, a 8 GB game that's on a F2P weekend, because that will take the best part of those two days, and after that weekend you've gone and eaten up a good part of your bandwidth with nothing to show for it but a lump of data saying "insert credit card to unlock".
This is barely tolerable IMO if you only had a day to trial a game that took a day to download and ate up half your bandwidth, but 45 minutes? Maybe two hours at best? Hell no.
This is obviously different in one major way, seeing as a friend is lending it to you rather than Microsoft or Steam, but I think it still stands as a comparable existing example.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

What you just described, my friend, is indeed not a demo...it's a "glorified demo". The keyword being "glorified". Yes, you have full access as though you had the game for 45 minutes, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a trial-run to tempt you to buy the game...that is to say: a demo.

Stop me if I'm on the wrong track, but doesn't Steam sometimes put certain games on the 'free to play' list for a weekend so that people can try a game out before they buy it? Personally, I'd use that example in your argument.

For example, if you have slow and limited internet, there's really no point downloading, say, a 8 GB game that's on a F2P weekend, because that will take the best part of those two days, and after that weekend you've gone and eaten up a good part of your bandwidth with nothing to show for it but a lump of data saying "insert credit card to unlock".
This is barely tolerable IMO if you only had a day to trial a game that took a day to download and ate up half your bandwidth, but 45 minutes? Maybe two hours at best? Hell no.
This is obviously different in one major way, seeing as a friend is lending it to you rather than Microsoft or Steam, but I think it still stands as a comparable existing example.

All I've been trying to tell Tom is that "Demo Trial is Demo." You might have full access to the game, but it's still just a demo to tempt you into buying it. Indeed, comparing it to those Steam free trial weekends is similar in concept, but no matter which way you slice it, it's still nothing more than a "glorified" demo. I shouldn't HAVE to compare it to Steam's free trial weekends.

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

Snip.

Snip

Stop me if I'm on the wrong track, but doesn't Steam sometimes put certain games on the 'free to play' list for a weekend so that people can try a game out before they buy it? Personally, I'd use that example in your argument.

For example, if you have slow and limited internet, there's really no point downloading, say, a 8 GB game that's on a F2P weekend, because that will take the best part of those two days, and after that weekend you've gone and eaten up a good part of your bandwidth with nothing to show for it but a lump of data saying "insert credit card to unlock".
This is barely tolerable IMO if you only had a day to trial a game that took a day to download and ate up half your bandwidth, but 45 minutes? Maybe two hours at best? Hell no.
This is obviously different in one major way, seeing as a friend is lending it to you rather than Microsoft or Steam, but I think it still stands as a comparable existing example.

All I've been trying to tell Tom is that "Demo Trial is Demo." You might have full access to the game, but it's still just a demo to tempt you into buying it. Indeed, comparing it to those Steam free trial weekends is similar in concept, but no matter which way you slice it, it's still nothing more than a "glorified" demo. I shouldn't HAVE to compare it to Steam's free trial weekends.

Well, I suppose I was trying to say that 'glorified demo' is still too nice a term for what essentially quickly becomes a massive waste of bandwidth, HDD space and time (even if it was a little off topic). After all, depending on how much time you give said friend to play the game, either you're letting them play the entire game for free, or they end up downloading a shit ton of data they may never use.

In any case, as you're probably trying to imply to TomWiley, it would be stupid to call such a system 'family sharing' if it resembled something more like a demo system or trial system that could easily be run off the Xbone online Shop.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Bullest shit I've ever heard. If Microsoft thinks a failure to communicate is the main problem, it's their heads on the chopping block. Even when some of the would-be features were elucidated by more sensible humans they seemed needlessly terrible, especially when you realise that region lock would negate the use of their now-sort-of-known-to-be limited time free demo service to those who would make best use of it.

 

[Jesse Billingsley]

So......What is the One supposed to do again? I mean, Christ are they reading from a handbook in ancient Nordic?

 

[CaptainThom]

I think they may be taking the petition a little to seriously....

 

[TomWiley]

Snip.

What you just described, my friend, is indeed not a demo...it's a "glorified demo". The keyword being "glorified". Yes, you have full access as though you had the game for 45 minutes, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a trial-run to tempt you to buy the game...that is to say: a demo.

Stop me if I'm on the wrong track, but doesn't Steam sometimes put certain games on the 'free to play' list for a weekend so that people can try a game out before they buy it? Personally, I'd use that example in your argument.

For example, if you have slow and limited internet, there's really no point downloading, say, a 8 GB game that's on a F2P weekend, because that will take the best part of those two days, and after that weekend you've gone and eaten up a good part of your bandwidth with nothing to show for it but a lump of data saying "insert credit card to unlock".
This is barely tolerable IMO if you only had a day to trial a game that took a day to download and ate up half your bandwidth, but 45 minutes? Maybe two hours at best? Hell no.
This is obviously different in one major way, seeing as a friend is lending it to you rather than Microsoft or Steam, but I think it still stands as a comparable existing example.

All I've been trying to tell Tom is that "Demo Trial is Demo." You might have full access to the game, but it's still just a demo to tempt you into buying it. Indeed, comparing it to those Steam free trial weekends is similar in concept, but no matter which way you slice it, it's still nothing more than a "glorified" demo. I shouldn't HAVE to compare it to Steam's free trial weekends.

Oh really now, let's not make this into a semantic discussion regarding the word "demo". I already said that glorified demo is misleading in my opinion. That's really all I'm saying, which is way most of my previous comment was just explaining why I think 45 minutes is a pretty decent value proposition, and I still don't see why it wouldn't be...

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

Evidently, yes, we do have a vastly different opinion on what a demo is. So alright my friend, what would YOU call something that's a limited-time trial-run of a game that is meant to encourage you to buy the full game and prompts you to do so after the time limit is up?

"Glorified Demo" isn't misleading in the slightest. As you said, you can do a lot more than you could in a demo, that's why it's a "glorified" demo, as I've been calling it the entire time. When you boil it down to the core elements, it's still a limited-time trial-run meant to encourage you to purchase the game.

Calling it "Family Sharing" is what's misleading. Sharing implies that they can play the game as much as they want all the way through, as though you were "sharing" it with them by letting them borrow it.

We're going to have to end this conversation now because there's apparently something keeping you from calling a demo a demo, and I'm getting tired of repeating the definition of demo over and over again.

 

[TomWiley]

I'm getting tired of repeating the definition of demo over and over again.

You mean you're getting tired of repeating what you think a demo is. "Demo" doesn't have any official definition you know. I don't know if you were alive during the 90s, (and I'm growing increasingly unsure), but demo has traditionally been a separate campaign or mission meant to showcase some of the essential mechanics - with other words: nothing like 45 minutes of the full game.

"Glorified Demo" isn't misleading in the slightest.

Again, it's a question of definition. You can disagree if you want to, but you can't act as if I'm objectively wrong.

what would YOU call something that's a limited-time trial-run of a game that is meant to encourage you to buy the full game

I would call it a limited-time trial-run of a game. Of course what I'd call it is irrelevant. The real question, and what I've been trying to get at for a while now, is what I think of the value proposition, which still is what I wrote a few posts ago: a perfect social feature which allows you to share an experience with a friend which at the same time does not allow for the system to be abused.

Now tell my why that isn't a great value proposition.

 

[viranimus]

This is far from Microsoft exclusive territory but why is it that so many in this industry come out to make statements trying to respond to a situation end up saying things that are either oblivious to the situation or in resentful and willful defiance of the realities of it?

Why is it simply owning up to making the mistake of trying to tell customers you know what they want and need far better than they possibly can is unfathomable and we get the likes of this, or comments from EA or Activision, Ubisoft or Square Enix and even indie devs/pubs are far from immune that try to shift the blame away from themselves and more often than not onto the consumers instead of just admitting and taking responsibility for the errors they made?

I would have unending respect if one of these entities would just come out and say "Yeah, we have gigantic clanking brass balls and sometimes the sound gets so loud it drowns out any logic and reason that causes us to say/do something stupid. Don't worry, we will fix it"

 

[Holythirteen]

Microsoft, I think you need to talk less.

"engineering reality time frame type-thing" What the hell does that even mean?!

Everything you people say and do either pisses us of or confuses us. What you need to do is to observe Sony's statements from and since E3, they have been a whole lot more clear on matters that we actually care about.

I second your confusion. I think he was trying to say this system wasn't going to be implemented for a while anyway? If at all?

My theory was they thought this "share-type-thing" up after the initial outcry just so they could pretend the Xbone was losing something when they eventually did their 180.

Maybe I give M$ too much credit. But I can't fathom how such a big company with so much money and smart people could foul things up so completely. Its not like they just shit their pants, its like they downed an entire bottle of laxative before going on stage knowing exactly what was in the bottle and what it did, but never connected the subsequent public defecation until after the fact.

Yahtzee's weird S and M story makes just as much sense as anything in this whole kerfukle.

 

[TomWiley]

Microsoft, I think you need to talk less.

"engineering reality time frame type-thing" What the hell does that even mean?!

Everything you people say and do either pisses us of or confuses us. What you need to do is to observe Sony's statements from and since E3, they have been a whole lot more clear on matters that we actually care about.

I second your confusion. I think he was trying to say this system wasn't going to be implemented for a while anyway? If at all?

My theory was they thought this "share-type-thing" up after the initial outcry just so they could pretend the Xbone was losing something when they eventually did their 180.

Maybe I give M$ too much credit. But I can't fathom how such a big company with so much money and smart people could foul things up so completely. Its not like they just shit their pants, its like they downed an entire bottle of laxative before going on stage knowing exactly what was in the bottle and what it did, but never connected the subsequent public defecation until after the fact.

Yahtzee's weird S and M story makes just as much sense as anything in this whole kerfukle.

I think Microsoft simply overestimated the intelligence of their consumers. They promised global online sharing, digital used games solution, server-offloading and cloud integration - not realizing that most consumers are too dumb to even see how all that would work, let alone see the advantages of said solutions. Rather, they'd feel confused, scared, angry and they'd turn to the populist, sensationalist "journalism" and Reddit posts to feel in the gaps.

The result, a big angry misinformed mob and, subsequently, a PR disaster.