Xbox One's Frame Rate: Kid Rejected, Mother Approved

[NoeL]

and more to the point WHAT game could possibly look worse in 1080p and 60FPS?

Oooh! Oooh! Almost everything on the N64. Primitive 3D graphics with miniscule texture buffers don't tend to look great in HD. All it does is emphasise how blocky the models are and how blurry the textures are. I personally wouldn't play N64 at anything higher than 640x480. The framerate boost is always welcome though, particularly for later Rare games that really struggle (e.g. Jet Force Gemini, Banjo Tooie, etc.).

 

[Vigormortis]

For that one, I could -feel- a tiny bit of choppiness when I focused on the background, but I couldn't really see it. The bottom moon hurt my eyes, but, to be honest, I thought it was the 60 fps one because it seemed more appropriate and "realistic" given the scene. I'm kinda glad it wasn't.

Try looking at it with the speed set to 500px/s or less and turning off motion blur. That makes it a bit easier to see the difference.

And keep the background at either 30 fps, 60 fps, or 15. (again, motion blur off)

 

[Loop Stricken]

Red Fluid lol. I hate people who call ketchup 'Red sauce'.

Of course it's red sauce - what are you, American?

OT: I'm mildly confused and surprisingly upset that the Heinz bottle is just pasted in there.

 

[Loop Stricken]

What no we don't, nobody does that. "Red sauce" is totally different to Ketchup it's this spicy sauce from Chinese fast food joints. Nobody calls Ketchup red sauce, nobody! Not even in Britain.

As a Briton, I absolutely call it red sauce. It's how we differentiate it from the brown sauce.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Red Mystery Fluid isn't comparable to ketchup, that's like comparing apples and artificially and naturally flavored apple bars! ...:V

Also on a more serious note, where did this myth come from that you can't see more than 30fps? I mean shouldn't that just not even be a thing as it's easily testable or just look at NTSC vs PAL 60vs50 it's noticeable there and that's just 10 frames.

People are crazy.

Never underestimate the power of the fanboy to deny logic and reality.

-snip-

Preaching to the choir there buddy.

Yes, you can tell the difference because one says 30 and one says 60.

Not that you don't *see* a difference mind you, but the way these things work as long as the two are labelled the comparison is meaningless. In a side by side comparison where you aren't *told* the difference you may not be able to see it.

Then how come I can always tell when a TV/monitor/projector is doing above 30 when there is no numbers to tell me?

Perhaps I have some innate bond with technology? Whoo!

The post above was sarcasm if you don't realize

 

[Sandernista]

Speaking of resolutions: If I have the choice between 30 fps 1080p and 60 fps 720p, I'll go with the latter, at least in first person shooters and the like, because there the game flow and feel is more important than the visual fidelity.

Yes!

I'll be honest, with most games I see a bigger difference between 30fps v 60fps than 720p v 1080p.

 

[Stu35]

What no we don't, nobody does that. "Red sauce" is totally different to Ketchup it's this spicy sauce from Chinese fast food joints. Nobody calls Ketchup red sauce, nobody! Not even in Britain.

As a Briton, I absolutely call it red sauce. It's how we differentiate it from the brown sauce.

I concur with Loop Stricken. I refer to Ketchup as red sauce. As do most people I know.

 

[softclocks]

Honest question - do images such as the one in the last panel actually make people laugh? Not being snarky, here; I'm genuinely curious.

Cause to be honest, that type of stuff just makes me sad.

Absolutely. It was my favorite part honestly. There's something to depressing jokes like that one which I find humorous. Even though my brother is likely to end a baseball player and I'll be lucky to make it as a teacher. The fact that it points a depressing idea in a funny way just gets me I guess?

A baseball player and a teacher.

Which is supposed to be the "better" one?

 

[MrMixelPixel]

Honest question - do images such as the one in the last panel actually make people laugh? Not being snarky, here; I'm genuinely curious.

Cause to be honest, that type of stuff just makes me sad.

Absolutely. It was my favorite part honestly. There's something to depressing jokes like that one which I find humorous. Even though my brother is likely to end a baseball player and I'll be lucky to make it as a teacher. The fact that it points a depressing idea in a funny way just gets me I guess?

A baseball player and a teacher.

Which is supposed to be the "better" one?

That's a fair question. As the panel suggests, my mother loves us bot equally no matter our professions. However, it feels like the culture I live in would put someone like a baseball player on a much higher pedestal than say a highschool teacher.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

Red Fluid lol. I hate people who call ketchup 'Red sauce'.

So you hate everybody in Britain and Ireland?

What no we don't, nobody does that. "Red sauce" is totally different to Ketchup it's this spicy sauce from Chinese fast food joints. Nobody calls Ketchup red sauce, nobody! Not even in Britain.

Schiracha? It has a Rooster on it right?

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

That, and The Stick of Truth. An art style that stylized would just look weird at a higher framerate.

I don't buy it. Why would it look weird? Why do you assume 30 fps looks better on something?

Because Matt, Trey and Obsidian wanted the game 'to look like you were playing a South Park Episode' janky animations, construction paper art-style and low FPS in all.

 

[Wandrecanada]

It bares reposting because:

A: It demonstrates the difference simply and beautifully.
-and-
B: People STILL assert there's no difference.

So here it is - http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

If you can honestly sit there and tell me that there's no visible difference between the fluidity of the 30 and the 60 fps samples, then I bow to you. Or I may call you a liar. Not sure.

In all honesty if you use the app correctly you can't tell the difference if you turn off the forced motion blur effect.

To check yourself try first reversing the 60 and 30 FPS. Now turn off the "normal" motion blur setting to "none". Switch the balls to spheres. No difference at any speed. (notice how the fake motion blur is more noticeable at 30 FPS).

For even more fun try the Steve Jackson 48 FPS vs 60 FPS. Can't tell any difference.

 

[Vigormortis]

In all honesty if you use the app correctly you can't tell the difference if you turn off the forced motion blur effect.

To check yourself try first reversing the 60 and 30 FPS. Now turn off the "normal" motion blur setting to "none". Switch the balls to spheres. No difference at any speed. (notice how the fake motion blur is more noticeable at 30 FPS).

For even more fun try the Steve Jackson 48 FPS vs 60 FPS. Can't tell any difference.

I can easily tell the difference. In every instance. (up to 90 hertz/fps. there it's hard to tell between 90 and 120.) The crispness of the lines on the sphere, at higher speeds, are far less defined in the 24 and 30 frame per second samples than they are for the 60+ frame samples. At lower speeds, the 30 and lower samples look far more 'jerky' than the 60 and up samples.

But that's me. I'm pretty sensitive to shifting frame rates. (it's more of a burden than a boon) Try dropping the movement speed to 500 pixels per second/pxs or lower. It helps not having to move ones eyes rapidly from side to side.

As for the motion blur, I often suggest it be disabled first. However, it does demonstrate that motion blur can hide poor frame rates. This is why devs often use high levels of full-screen motion blur to hide the fact that many console games run at 30 frames per second.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Only crack addled twitch players care about the 30/60 issue...now it drops in frame rates while player then thats a whole other can of worms.

 

[Lightknight]

Only crack addled twitch players care about the 30/60 issue...now it drops in frame rates while player then thats a whole other can of worms.

I knew I should have invested in the crack market because there are a lot of people that care about fps the same way we care about resolution.

Here's a gaming comparison of frame rates. [http://www.gamespot.com/videos/reality-check-do-we-need-60-fps-on-ps4-and-xbox-on/2300-6415658/]

Higher framerates improve reactivity/fluidity of gameplay. Also, unlike with video, each frame in a video game is rendered perfectly without motion blur. In regular ol' video if you pause the screen when motion is happening you get blur. This difference in smoothness is why you can much more easily tell a difference during gameplay compared to the different in video.

As that video also points out by referencing actual research into the difference of frame rates [http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/papers/fr-rez/], they found that the gamers playing in 60 fps demonstrated better performance AND more enjoyment of the game. Consider that last bit for a moment. Higher frame rates can actually help us enjoy the games we play more. Perhaps the brain just doesn't have to work as hard to ignore the problems it detects in lower frame rates.

If you don't care about the 30/60 issue, then perhaps you're merely misinformed. Have you done any testing between the two with yourself? It's convenient to be able to dismiss other people's concerns or opinions as crack addled but that's an awfully close minded way to approach larger topics. Try to be more open minded to the possibility that it's not just mob mentality that's creating an issue where one doesn't exist. Mob mentality usually just blows things out of proportion but doesn't usually create an issue where none exists. It's insulting to everyone when your response to dissenters from your opinion is just that there must be wrong with them.

 

[Sofus]

People that claim that the human eye can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps are actually correct.... when it comes to pre rendered stuff.

CSS and CSGO are some of the best games (just an opinion) to test exactly what differeces there is between 30, 60 or 120 fps. Start any CS game and then rapidly move the camera around with the highest possible fps you can muster... them limit your fps to 30 and do it again.

But yeah, the human eye can't tell the difference between 30 and 120 fps... but the game can, and when things such as rapid movement or alot of details suddenly appear on the screen, your fps will take a dive... and if you only have 30 fps to begin with, then you will experience lag.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Only crack addled twitch players care about the 30/60 issue...now it drops in frame rates while player then thats a whole other can of worms.

I knew I should have invested in the crack market because there are a lot of people that care about fps the same way we care about resolution.

Here's a gaming comparison of frame rates. [http://www.gamespot.com/videos/reality-check-do-we-need-60-fps-on-ps4-and-xbox-on/2300-6415658/]

Higher framerates improve reactivity/fluidity of gameplay. Also, unlike with video, each frame in a video game is rendered perfectly without motion blur. In regular ol' video if you pause the screen when motion is happening you get blur. This difference in smoothness is why you can much more easily tell a difference during gameplay compared to the different in video.

As that video also points out by referencing actual research into the difference of frame rates [http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/papers/fr-rez/], they found that the gamers playing in 60 fps demonstrated better performance AND more enjoyment of the game. Consider that last bit for a moment. Higher frame rates can actually help us enjoy the games we play more. Perhaps the brain just doesn't have to work as hard to ignore the problems it detects in lower frame rates.

If you don't care about the 30/60 issue, then perhaps you're merely misinformed. Have you done any testing between the two with yourself? It's convenient to be able to dismiss other people's concerns or opinions as crack addled but that's an awfully close minded way to approach larger topics. Try to be more open minded to the possibility that it's not just mob mentality that's creating an issue where one doesn't exist. Mob mentality usually just blows things out of proportion but doesn't usually create an issue where none exists. It's insulting to everyone when your response to dissenters from your opinion is just that there must be wrong with them.

Up to a point then its superfluous which most of it is so meh I'd rather have a good game that shudders that dose not hold your hand or has shallow mechanics for the sake of pushing sales but then neither system offers much of that. Its funny MS went with a awkward cache/ramm setup that limits the ease of developing games for it ala the PS3 and sony went in the other direction to ensure ease of development. Lack of BWC has pretty much made the PC more worth my money so I am enjoying the kiddie console wars from the sidelines this go around. I was WII/360 mostly due to the 360 games being cheaper but still got a PS3 just not seeing much worth this go around other than the who has a bigger peter contest MS and Sony do. Gotta admit Sony got MS good the only thing I see pushing the Xbone past them is full 360 emulation and thats iffy at best so unless there is a huge jump making software run better on the Xbone its going to be stuck in 2nd place, I guess thats better than the WII U who can't get games made for it. ANd I am rambling so I will stop now LOL

 

[Darth_Payn]

Honest question - do images such as the one in the last panel actually make people laugh? Not being snarky, here; I'm genuinely curious.

Cause to be honest, that type of stuff just makes me sad.

Maybe he's projecting some of his issues into this strip; like he has a physically fit doctor brother who his mom loves just as much as* "that boy who makes that comic on the Internet two days a week".


*Obvious Lie

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

30fps is fine, its only with slow down when the screen gets crowded when its shit. Again, for me, prefer a great 30fps game than a shitty 60fps game. The fps aspect is the last thing to whine about.

 

[w23eer]

That, and The Stick of Truth. An art style that stylized would just look weird at a higher framerate.

I don't buy it. Why would it look weird? Why do you assume 30 fps looks better on something?

Because Matt, Trey and Obsidian wanted the game 'to look like you were playing a South Park Episode' janky animations, construction paper art-style and low FPS in all.

FPS wouldn't affect how janky it looks if it was deliberately animated to be janky - the construction paper art style would be preserved no matter how high the FPS is. The most you could say is that 60fps would be pointless with a South Park - esque art style.

EDIT: I just wanna say that I, and most people I know as far as I'm aware, use the words "ketchup" and "red sauce" interchangeably. That is all.