Xbox One's Reputation System Locks Harassers Into Their Own Hell

[TiberiusEsuriens]

is

It's non-automated, so it can't be abused from the player-end. It's based on "offenses", so it's reviewed by a moderator.

There's a terrible plague circulating these forums, and its main symptom is "inability to read the OP". Keep yourself safe, folks: Don't just skim the first post before offering your stance.

First of all, my post didn't say "is"

Second of all, I admit to mentioning player-end stuff, but the point I was trying to get across was that in the end the consumer will still get screwed. Having it internal will help reduce some crap, but it will still discourage ALL players, not just griefers and the like. I would be less willing to play something like Borderlands Splitscreen Co-op. Even though I'm not 'online', now I'm suddenly worried that Omin-Kinect is going to hear me cursing and ripping bad/inappropriate jokes with my buddy, on my couch, not harassing internet beings.

If and when Microsoft sets this rating into existence they need to be superly abundantly clear what the Xbone Laws are, and how to avoid screwing with them. If they don't, imaginations will run rampant and thoughts like my BLands example above happen. Internet rage is almost always worse than reality, but that rage exists because we aren't given the reality in the first place.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I think it sounds like a great idea, and I honestly think it would be cool if others could do it too. However, while the idea is good, it doesn't mean they'll be able to go through with it in the best way. I don't know, if they can make it work in a good way, then yay, otherwise I'm more hesitant.

 

[Terramax]

Sounds like a good idea.... so, MS, why wasn't it implimented on 360 several years back?

It will be a purely a usable system. Basically a semi automated briefing minigame. What will make it even more pointless, as we have seen countless times before, that isolate the nice people from the assholes only works if the numbers on both sides are balanced or sufficient for constant matching. If they aren't? Guess what you get matched with the foul mouthed bastards anyway.

Why even bother with his sort of thing? They have voice recognition baked into the console. Simply keep a robust library of obscenities, racial slurs etc, and when the XBone hears them, it cuts off the players voice chat.

Because, whilst I'm very polite on the internet, even I throwout cuss words. Not necessarily at people. Just in general.

It's not just about swearing, but the context. It's perfect possible to offend people without using bad language. I know. I live with a family of 3 women.

Balance should be easy to level out. If there are a lot of arses, then they will simply be lumped with other arses. Simple as that. There will just be lots of rooms full of arses. All the good people will stay in the better behaved rooms. There may be less of them, but they will be safe there.

 

[klaynexas3]

Everyone thinks this will get abused, but why don't they include certain measures if they actually intend on this working? For instance, maybe, since the Xbone has integrated recording software, to submit a report of griefers or harassers you'll need to have the video feed to back it up? Or maybe have down votes that include that have more weight than those that are simply just a simple down vote. I know this can't be perfect, but certainly there are ways to make it a plausible system.

 

[LostintheWick]

It's non-automated, so it can't be abused from the player-end. It's based on "offenses", so it's reviewed by a moderator.

There's a terrible plague circulating these forums, and its main symptom is "inability to read the OP". Keep yourself safe, folks: Don't just skim the first post before offering your stance.

Well played!
Did you isolate the words from each of these individual posts? If so... then AWESOME.

 

[Mr. Q]

I wanna be hopeful about this reputation system, but given the fact that most of the forum commentators have pointed out obvious weaknesses that the douche-bag generation will exploit, it looks like another nail in the coffin of Xbone/Microsoft.

 

[Longstreet]

In fact, it says this:

"If there's a few per cent of our population that are causing the rest of the population to have a miserable time," says Lavin, "we should be able to identify those folks." Identify, and do something about.

"We", as in Microsoft. Not the audience.

It's not an automatic process, but repeated offenders will see their Reputation dip, and dip...

It's non-automated, so it can't be abused from the player-end. It's based on "offenses", so it's reviewed by a moderator.

There's a terrible plague circulating these forums, and its main symptom is "inability to read the OP". Keep yourself safe, folks: Don't just skim the first post before offering your stance.

First off, read it again would ya.

"What we're looking at doing is creating a very robust system around reputation and match-making," says Microsoft's Mike Lavin. The Xbox One's new Reputation system is intended to do just that.

The Reputation system is Microsoft's way of doing exactly that. People who play well with others get to create their own community of like-minded folks, while those who can't will be herded into a group of people similar to them. Lavin was reluctant - even when prodded - to call that grouping griefer hell, but did say "I would not necessarily want to play with those folks." It's not an automatic process, but repeated offenders will see their Reputation dip, and dip, until you end up down there with the wrathful [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_circles_of_hell], struggling in the waters of the Styx.

"We're one of the only platforms that really takes an interest in exploring and investigating major problems," Lavin concluded, "and this extends from sexual harassment, to age harassment, to gender to everything else under the sun." In the ideal, Xbox One's Reputation system will allow the developer to create the online community it wants, rather than endure the one it gets.

Second off, it is NON AUTOMATED, that means that IS NOT AUTOMATICALLY, ergo, the PLAYER does it. If it was AUTOMATED microsoft would take care of it.

Do you really think Microsoft is gonna hire Mod to watch over EVERY. SINGLE report? Hell no.

The 'we' they meantioned is talking about M$ implementing a system so that the PLAYER can, let's just call it give a grade, to another player. (1 = extremely unfriendly - 10 = extremely friendly, something like that in whatever shape or form M$ comes up with)


How about you work on your own OP reading capabilities, and while your at it, take up some politeness classes as well.

 

[Tiamattt]

Is this going to be one of those systems where arseholes can gang up on people and mass report/downvote/whatever them into oblivion, with next to no oversight? It is, isn't it...

Probably, I'm betting it's going to be a mostly automated system since I seriously doubt they're going to pay for people to make sure each one's legit. So instead of a weapon used to hurt the trolls they get a toy to annoy people with, joy.

 

[sirjeffofshort]

This genuinely seems like the first positive move Xbox has made in a while. I don't particularly like playing games online, however if a system like this were implemented and actually worked it would go a long way towards changing that.

 

[lacktheknack]

It's non-automated, so it can't be abused from the player-end. It's based on "offenses", so it's reviewed by a moderator.

There's a terrible plague circulating these forums, and its main symptom is "inability to read the OP". Keep yourself safe, folks: Don't just skim the first post before offering your stance.

Well played!
Did you isolate the words from each of these individual posts? If so... then AWESOME.

I wish. I just overwrote them. Maybe I should try that in the future...

In fact, it says this:

"If there's a few per cent of our population that are causing the rest of the population to have a miserable time," says Lavin, "we should be able to identify those folks." Identify, and do something about.

"We", as in Microsoft. Not the audience.

It's not an automatic process, but repeated offenders will see their Reputation dip, and dip...

It's non-automated, so it can't be abused from the player-end. It's based on "offenses", so it's reviewed by a moderator.

There's a terrible plague circulating these forums, and its main symptom is "inability to read the OP". Keep yourself safe, folks: Don't just skim the first post before offering your stance.

First off, read it again would ya.

"What we're looking at doing is creating a very robust system around reputation and match-making," says Microsoft's Mike Lavin. The Xbox One's new Reputation system is intended to do just that.

The Reputation system is Microsoft's way of doing exactly that. People who play well with others get to create their own community of like-minded folks, while those who can't will be herded into a group of people similar to them. Lavin was reluctant - even when prodded - to call that grouping griefer hell, but did say "I would not necessarily want to play with those folks." It's not an automatic process, but repeated offenders will see their Reputation dip, and dip, until you end up down there with the wrathful [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_circles_of_hell], struggling in the waters of the Styx.

"We're one of the only platforms that really takes an interest in exploring and investigating major problems," Lavin concluded, "and this extends from sexual harassment, to age harassment, to gender to everything else under the sun." In the ideal, Xbox One's Reputation system will allow the developer to create the online community it wants, rather than endure the one it gets.

Second off, it is NON AUTOMATED, that means that IS NOT AUTOMATICALLY, ergo, the PLAYER does it. If it was AUTOMATED microsoft would take care of it.

Do you really think Microsoft is gonna hire Mod to watch over EVERY. SINGLE report? Hell no.

The 'we' they meantioned is talking about M$ implementing a system so that the PLAYER can, let's just call it give a grade, to another player. (1 = extremely unfriendly - 10 = extremely friendly, something like that in whatever shape or form M$ comes up with)


How about you work on your own OP reading capabilities, and while your at it, take up some politeness classes as well.

"Reputation" is a buzzword. It's not necessarily directly analogous to reputation as it works in the real world. The word "mod" has come to mean "any player-created content" versus the strict definition of "direct modification".

"Automated system" = a computer processes it. If it's not automated, then it has to go through human review. Ergo, it's on Microsoft's side.

And no, they'd look into clusters of reports. You know, like how the Escapist works. That will cut down the amount of reports that actually have to be looked into.

You seem overly confident in how you think the system will look, considering how little we know about the system. At least I'm basing what I've concluded on what's actually written. It's you who is stretching definitions.

My OP reading capabilities are fine, I even re-read it three times. I like to think my comprehension skills are up to snuff, but seeing how much info you extracted from one word, I may be wrong.

Also, I took a politeness class once. It said something about not capitalizing all the letters in a word for emphasis...

 

[Saucycarpdog]

snip

Ok dude, I know you hate Microsoft, but mixing up words and their meanings will not help your post.

Automatic=the xbox system. Not Microsoft. You didn't read very well.

"We're one of the only platforms that really takes an interest in exploring and investigating major problems," Lavin concluded, "and this extends from sexual harassment, to age harassment, to gender to everything else under the sun." In the ideal, Xbox One's Reputation system will allow the developer to create the online community it wants, rather than endure the one it gets.

"We...Investigating problems" Uh, yeah, I think it will involve moderaters.

"Will allow the developer" If it was player based, it would say player instead of developer.

 

[Suave Charlie]

..

Considering the current system is based on "rep" I don't see it as particularly reaching to think that the new system would be much different.

It may be moderated by humans but I still see problems, compared to a forum where a mod can view flagged posts and see actually what occurred and even find some context. Any system MS put in place just for practical reasons would be players flagging other players, there aren't the resources to be able to examine each player individually. So what would then stop a group from all hitting one person with a load of complaints, the moderator seeing that can't see what occurred at the time to cause them all and would just have to go off how frequent the complaints are received.
When there's any sort of competitive community there'll be people negging just because, and I can't think of any system that would be able to sort the legitimate complaints from the vindictive ones. There needs to be some way you can't just downvote anyone without repercussions otherwise the complaints can carry no real weight.

 

[subtlefuge]

Oh good, so when I consistently win in multi I'll have sour kids downvote/rep/whatever me. Great system, can't be abused at all.
On gears 3 I'd have a rage message at least once a day, never did anything to provoke, just played the game. But I can guarantee that people who enjoyed playing with me didn't upvote me, so as far as this sort of system is concerned I'm just a raging asshole who a lot of people hate.

Brilliant.

From what I gather, the rep system for the 360 is supposed to weigh positive votes and people who play with you and don't vote at all against negative votes. That's not entirely how it ends up working, but maybe they can get something together where people with low reputations can't downvote anyone with a higher rep than themselves. Or they could require you to give out one upvote to match every downvote you give out.

It's Microsoft, so it'll be terrible, and they'll completely backtrack and remove the feature instead of making it work.

 

[Longstreet]

"Reputation" is a buzzword. It's not necessarily directly analogous to reputation as it works in the real world. The word "mod" has come to mean "any player-created content" versus the strict definition of "direct modification".

They are talking about a reputation system for the Xbone. If they mean something else, so using it as a example to get their point across, they should express themselves better. Right now i see it as a mix between the "flag" Next to your post and the health meter. Let's say you get flagged for your post, you lose 1 health bar. Lose enough health bars the mods (if they have any) will look into it.

Now quite sure what you mean by "reputation as in the real world" If you are talking about that example of mine, that was just how M$ will most likely handle it. Might be in a different shape or form, but the gist of it is the same.

I used Mod as a shorthand for Moderator, like we have here on the escapist.

Just a quick note i thought of right now, I believe YouTube has the policy that if enough people flag a video (or player in this case) it gets taken down. Until the other party files an appeal it'll stay down. Something simmilair might happen and the mods won't look into it until you file an appeal.

"Automated system" = a computer processes it. If it's not automated, then it has to go through human review. Ergo, it's on Microsoft's side. And no, they'd look into clusters of reports. You know, like how the Escapist works. That will cut down the amount of reports that actually have to be looked into.

The thing is, if i recall correctly, Xbox 360 got 46 Million people playing (or at least owning it). Let's say 20 million will get the Xbone. and 1 percent of that get's enough warnings for mods to look into. that's still 200.000 people flagged. Whilst i don't know how much members the escapist have i assume they don't get that many rule violations.

It will probably be more since people are dicks and will flag you for no reason at all.

You seem overly confident in how you think the system will look, considering how little we know about the system. At least I'm basing what I've concluded on what's actually written. It's you who is stretching definitions.

You seem fairly confident how the system will not work as well

My OP reading capabilities are fine, I even re-read it three times. I like to think my comprehension skills are up to snuff, but seeing how much info you extracted from one word, I may be wrong.

That is the core issue here i guess, we both interpreted it differently, and with me at least 10 or so others in this thread.

Also, I took a politeness class once. It said something about not capitalizing all the letters in a word for emphasis...

True, that (might) be a bad habit i picked up from an, American, friend of mine. He also does that. I'll watch out for that.

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

I feel like there are a few badmouth people right here.

I also thought the system would work like the prefer/avoid player system right now. But as you guys think of it as a up and down scale, I was imagining individual bubbles touching each other.
In which case you'd applaud the fact that those dickheads avoided you because it'd push you away from them.
Not necessarily down, just avoiding those specific players.

I imagine those dickheads would avoid probably other innocent players like yourself and you'd be pushed together or something.

 

[southparkdudez]

They do realize they are making an Xbox right? Jesus Christ the moment you buy an Xbox you tell the store clerk that he is a camping Twat for staying behind the counter for to many seconds. I'm sorry but 90% of the people who are going to buy a xbox one swear like a sailor.

 

[Steve the Pocket]

Except assholes are assholes and will happily abuse the system to Reputation down all the non-assholes too, just so they can continue to be assholes to them.

Especially since they do like to work in packs on the 360, like Hyenas. Means they can ruin your rep allot easier than your one vote against them.

And again, Microsoft's idiocy is exposed in the first comment. What a crock xD

I don't know where everyone got the idea that this system would be based on "upvotes and downvotes" from other players. It doesn't say it in the article, nor in the original article it cites as the source. In fact, here's what the original OXM article did say:

The system will be proof against exploitation, he continued. "Let's just be clear, there is no way at all that a conglomerate of people can conspire to sink your Reputation on the system. The way that it's built fundamentally stops that. It's very much over a period of time - if we see consistently that people, for instance, don't like playing with you, that you're consistently blocked, that you're the subject of enforcement actions because you're sending naked pictures of yourself to people that don't want naked pictures of you... Blatant things like that have the ability to quickly reduce your Reputation score."

Granted, that still won't protect against people getting consistently downvoted by sore losers, but at least they've caught on to the "army of trolls" thing.

I also thought the system would work like the prefer/avoid player system right now. But as you guys think of it as a up and down scale, I was imagining individual bubbles touching each other.
In which case you'd applaud the fact that those dickheads avoided you because it'd push you away from them.
Not necessarily down, just avoiding those specific players.

I imagine those dickheads would avoid probably other innocent players like yourself and you'd be pushed together or something.

So like, instead of upvotes and downvotes it's "I like this person" and "I hate this person", and getting Liked/Hated has the same effect as if you Liked/Hated them? It's an interesting idea, and definitely better than a single "Reputation" score that anyone can manipulate, but I think in practice it would break down just as easily because dedicated trolls would start Liking everyone they harass to try to stay close to them. Though I suppose their victims would Hate them back, and it would cancel out... maybe give the Hates more weight than the Likes... I dunno. This has potential; we should keep this discussion going and see if we can refine it into something brilliant.

 

[Griffolion]

Everyone will get repped down. Legitimate players will get tanked by the people that truly should be tanked themselves. This system simply will not work.

 

[lacktheknack]

snipipipip

I imagine that flag-until-reviewed is a possibility, but they'd avoid a lot of hassle if they required direct written complaints.

When I said "mod", I meant mods as in "game modifications", or "those things that Skyrim players cannot shut up about". Just to clarify.

And while your Youtube example is notable, it's worth pointing out that getting the takedowns reversed is fully possible. The ASMR specialists get their videos taken down with alarming regularity, because people think it's a terrifyingly specific fetish (it's not), but they almost always get the videos back up when they ask (as far as I can tell). Removing the automation from the system allows for that, so it'll be helpful.

I don't know how large the moderation teams are, so I can't comment on a 200,000 person workload.

And you're right, interpretations are fuuuuuuun. All told, we'll have to wait for more details.