XCOM Patch Making Easy Mode Easier

Winthrop

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BreakfastMan said:
Winthrop said:
That just basically strikes me as... I dunno, slightly elitist? You seem to basically be saying we can never have interesting enemies or encounters if we have an easy difficulty (because we have to remove those encounters for that difficulty), and I don't believe that, especially since it puts a lot of blame for making games "worse" on those who are less skilled than us and just want a mode for themselves. I mean, that was what I thought the easy mode in XCOM was for: beginners to the franchise who just wanted to learn the ropes. :\
There is a slight difference in what I am saying, but I think its worth noting. I'm blaming developers more than the players. Its hard to do difficulty well, and conventional methods do impact other difficulty settings. Upping the AI is the optimal way to increase difficulty in a game like this, but that is an incredibly difficult thing to do. It takes a lot of time and money to make many different AI's. I'm not saying don't have an easy mode, but making easy mode TOO easy is bad for the rest of the game. I apologize if I came off as an elitist, but I stand by my argument. If difficulty comes from tactics the easiest way to remove the difficulty is to remove the tactics. I feel like in these situations an easier beginning is necessary rather than an easy mode. Its wrong to thrust new players into a difficult situation that requires knowledge of the game, but the game should build crescendo to avoid this rather than have an easy mode. If people die or lose or what ever, I think thats good. Failure is part of the formula. Its a game about people against an overwhelming enemy who they know nothing about. Permadeath is in the game to make losses matter and give that feeling of gambling. Losing and learning are some of the most important parts of XCOM. If losing doesn't appeal to people, maybe XCOM isn't the game for them. Not every game needs every person to like it. Take for instance slasher films. I don't like watching people have there fingers cut off or whatever, so I don't watch them. Its not something I enjoy. It would be silly to start taking out all the gore to get me and people like me to watch it. Maybe some of us will, but it takes away the point of the film. Taking the loss out of XCOM is similar. You NEED to lose. Its part of the story and part of the atmosphere. It isn't the same without the difficulty. Its a shame some people won't experience the game because that drives them off, but its part of the core of the experience. Again I'm not saying don't have an easy mode, but easy mode still needs to be difficult, just less difficult.
 

BreakfastMan

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Jul 22, 2010
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Winthrop said:
BreakfastMan said:
Winthrop said:
That just basically strikes me as... I dunno, slightly elitist? You seem to basically be saying we can never have interesting enemies or encounters if we have an easy difficulty (because we have to remove those encounters for that difficulty), and I don't believe that, especially since it puts a lot of blame for making games "worse" on those who are less skilled than us and just want a mode for themselves. I mean, that was what I thought the easy mode in XCOM was for: beginners to the franchise who just wanted to learn the ropes. :\
There is a slight difference in what I am saying, but I think its worth noting. I'm blaming developers more than the players. Its hard to do difficulty well, and conventional methods do impact other difficulty settings. Upping the AI is the optimal way to increase difficulty in a game like this, but that is an incredibly difficult thing to do. It takes a lot of time and money to make many different AI's. I'm not saying don't have an easy mode, but making easy mode TOO easy is bad for the rest of the game. I apologize if I came off as an elitist, but I stand by my argument. If difficulty comes from tactics the easiest way to remove the difficulty is to remove the tactics. I feel like in these situations an easier beginning is necessary rather than an easy mode. Its wrong to thrust new players into a difficult situation that requires knowledge of the game, but the game should build crescendo to avoid this rather than have an easy mode. If people die or lose or what ever, I think thats good. Failure is part of the formula. Its a game about people against an overwhelming enemy who they know nothing about. Permadeath is in the game to make losses matter and give that feeling of gambling. Losing and learning are some of the most important parts of XCOM. If losing doesn't appeal to people, maybe XCOM isn't the game for them. Not every game needs every person to like it. Take for instance slasher films. I don't like watching people have there fingers cut off or whatever, so I don't watch them. Its not something I enjoy. It would be silly to start taking out all the gore to get me and people like me to watch it. Maybe some of us will, but it takes away the point of the film. Taking the loss out of XCOM is similar. You NEED to lose. Its part of the story and part of the atmosphere. It isn't the same without the difficulty. Its a shame some people won't experience the game because that drives them off, but its part of the core of the experience. Again I'm not saying don't have an easy mode, but easy mode still needs to be difficult, just less difficult.
No one is saying that making easy mode easier removes the chance of failure. I mean, there is such a thing as TOO hard, and since the people playing on easy mode are, by and large, not really used to this sort of game, easy mode might be too hard for them. I mean, I am not used to this type of game, so I picked easy, and I currently have 3 countries who left the XCOM project and multiple countries at 3 bars or higher. Yet, a good chunk of the people who are used to this game and are playing on normal are doing far better than I am on easy. That seems to say, to me at least, that easy mode might be a bit harder than it needs to be. Hell, I once had to lose an hour and a halfs worth of progress because I was not really able to continue. If easy difficulty is supposed to be for people like me, and I am having a harder time on it than others are on the modes for them... What does that say about the current difficulty of easy, eh? I still want to try out the tactics and learn the game's intricacies and I do not want them removed...
 

Winthrop

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BreakfastMan said:
Winthrop said:
BreakfastMan said:
Winthrop said:
That just basically strikes me as... I dunno, slightly elitist? You seem to basically be saying we can never have interesting enemies or encounters if we have an easy difficulty (because we have to remove those encounters for that difficulty), and I don't believe that, especially since it puts a lot of blame for making games "worse" on those who are less skilled than us and just want a mode for themselves. I mean, that was what I thought the easy mode in XCOM was for: beginners to the franchise who just wanted to learn the ropes. :\
There is a slight difference in what I am saying, but I think its worth noting. I'm blaming developers more than the players. Its hard to do difficulty well, and conventional methods do impact other difficulty settings. Upping the AI is the optimal way to increase difficulty in a game like this, but that is an incredibly difficult thing to do. It takes a lot of time and money to make many different AI's. I'm not saying don't have an easy mode, but making easy mode TOO easy is bad for the rest of the game. I apologize if I came off as an elitist, but I stand by my argument. If difficulty comes from tactics the easiest way to remove the difficulty is to remove the tactics. I feel like in these situations an easier beginning is necessary rather than an easy mode. Its wrong to thrust new players into a difficult situation that requires knowledge of the game, but the game should build crescendo to avoid this rather than have an easy mode. If people die or lose or what ever, I think thats good. Failure is part of the formula. Its a game about people against an overwhelming enemy who they know nothing about. Permadeath is in the game to make losses matter and give that feeling of gambling. Losing and learning are some of the most important parts of XCOM. If losing doesn't appeal to people, maybe XCOM isn't the game for them. Not every game needs every person to like it. Take for instance slasher films. I don't like watching people have there fingers cut off or whatever, so I don't watch them. Its not something I enjoy. It would be silly to start taking out all the gore to get me and people like me to watch it. Maybe some of us will, but it takes away the point of the film. Taking the loss out of XCOM is similar. You NEED to lose. Its part of the story and part of the atmosphere. It isn't the same without the difficulty. Its a shame some people won't experience the game because that drives them off, but its part of the core of the experience. Again I'm not saying don't have an easy mode, but easy mode still needs to be difficult, just less difficult.
No one is saying that making easy mode easier removes the chance of failure. I mean, there is such a thing as TOO hard, and since the people playing on easy mode are, by and large, not really used to this sort of game, easy mode might be too hard for them. I mean, I am not used to this type of game, so I picked easy, and I currently have 3 countries who left the XCOM project and multiple countries at 3 bars or higher. Yet, a good chunk of the people who are used to this game and are playing on normal are doing far better than I am on easy. That seems to say, to me at least, that easy mode might be a bit harder than it needs to be. Hell, I once had to lose an hour and a halfs worth of progress because I was not really able to continue. If easy difficulty is supposed to be for people like me, and I am having a harder time on it than others are on the modes for them... What does that say about the current difficulty of easy, eh? I still want to try out the tactics and learn the game's intricacies and I do not want them removed...
As I said I haven't played the new XCOM yet, and I am glad easy is appropriate for you difficulty wise. I was tending towards the extremes rather than being realistic (Its my nature sorry). I was going more off what others had stated in terms of difficulty. I know some people who play easy modes in some games because they do not want to die at all. This is fine with me, but in a game like xcom, you need to fail occasionally. I did not intend to offend you or insult your abilities, the original xcoms still beat me horribly as does Dark Souls. I hope the changes to difficulty keep it at an enjoyable level for you!
 

BreakfastMan

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Jul 22, 2010
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Winthrop said:
As I said I haven't played the new XCOM yet, and I am glad easy is appropriate for you difficulty wise. I was tending towards the extremes rather than being realistic (Its my nature sorry). I was going more off what others had stated in terms of difficulty. I know some people who play easy modes in some games because they do not want to die at all. This is fine with me, but in a game like xcom, you need to fail occasionally. I did not intend to offend you or insult your abilities, the original xcoms still beat me horribly as does Dark Souls. I hope the changes to difficulty keep it at an enjoyable level for you!
I hope so. Those damn muttons, berserkers, chrysallids, and advanced floaters are fairly consistently wrecking my crew! D:
 

Clarste

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Winthrop said:
The lead game designer for Xcom (the new one) has repeatedly said that he designed the game around Classic difficulty and just lowered the numbers for Normal and Easy. So... there you go. You're simply wrong.

In my experience with reading interviews with game designers, that's usually how it works. They start by making a game they want to play, and therefore balanced around their own skill level, and then just remove things from easier difficulties. Sometimes this doesn't work out as planned (ie: Easy mode is too easy, or too difficult), but that's because they didn't start from Easy. They started from Classic, or Lunatic, or Normal, remove game mechanics to make the easier modes, and tune up the numbers to Impossible for the harder modes.
 

Warachia

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Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
So you seem to be really scared about this "bar of entry" thing for some reason, you do realize it doesn't make general games easier at all right?
First because there aren't many games in this genre in the first place (and barely any new ones), you can't alter a FPS based on this game, or even a RTS.
Second because this bar of entry you are talking about doesn't exist. It can't be measured how much easier people want their games, which means they won't change how easy the easier difficulties are in other games, and even if it did, if they followed after this model, they'd only alter their easiest setting.
Strange, since winthrop just kicked your argument's ass.
Winthrop made a completely different argument, I'm arguing that whatever they choose to do to the difficulty of X-COM it will not affect other games, as you seem to be paranoid that it will.
Winthrop was explaining game design and talking about how/why the different difficulties were created.

By the way, great comment, when you don't have a reply just point to somebody else who also argued against your ridiculous idea.
When Easy already gives you all the advantage plus some hefty accuracy bonuses, you are practically unstoppable.

They made it piss easy as it is, yet gamers somehow cannot win at it?

And when 2K, a company who already thinks gamers are brain dead 10 year olds, see this you won't think it will just validate their stance on us?

When they have been proven time and time again to use their personal biases in their funding decisions? Regardless if they have been proven wrong? Its very possible.

These are the same people who said strategy games don't sell when they sell strategy games. These execs are so disconnected to what they are doing and who they are selling to that they forgot where their money comes from.

Its not a long shot to see that 2K could see this as a moment to "broaden the audience" much like Dead Space. Since their biases seem to be quite strong, its also possible they can apply what they learned here to other IPs.

Keep in mind the entire argument started over why one should care that 2K is doing this. I just gave a realistic scenario.
So you are making up a scenario that you think might happen, without any facts to support it.
If you are going that way, then the exact opposite is true, what if some designers are filled with contempt at this move, and decide to make their games harder as a result?
So long as you are only talking about what could possibly happen I can't take you seriously, as you come off as a little paranoid thinking what could possibly happen is what will happen.
Incidentally, your possible scenario could have happened just as easily without them looking at this patch.
 

Winthrop

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Clarste said:
Winthrop said:
The lead game designer for Xcom (the new one) has repeatedly said that he designed the game around Classic difficulty and just lowered the numbers for Normal and Easy. So... there you go. You're simply wrong.

In my experience with reading interviews with game designers, that's usually how it works. They start by making a game they want to play, and therefore balanced around their own skill level, and then just remove things from easier difficulties. Sometimes this doesn't work out as planned (ie: Easy mode is too easy, or too difficult), but that's because they didn't start from Easy. They started from Classic, or Lunatic, or Normal, remove game mechanics to make the easier modes, and tune up the numbers to Impossible for the harder modes.
I do not know a lot about XCOM's Development, but nearly every game has a boatload of features removed during playtests to appease people who find it too dificult. For instance, Left 4 Dead was open world with many paths initially but was changed during play testing because playtesters got confused. The narrative was also cut down to virtually nonexistent if not entirely nonexistent. I admit Left 4 Dead underwent a crazy amount of change compared to most games (It arguably changed from survival horror to Run and Gun, opposite ends of the shooter spectrum) but nearly all lose features in the name of easiness or mass appeal.
 

Warachia

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Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Winthrop made a completely different argument, I'm arguing that whatever they choose to do to the difficulty of X-COM it will not affect other games, as you seem to be paranoid that it will.
Winthrop was explaining game design and talking about how/why the different difficulties were created.

By the way, great comment, when you don't have a reply just point to somebody else who also argued against your ridiculous idea.
When Easy already gives you all the advantage plus some hefty accuracy bonuses, you are practically unstoppable.

They made it piss easy as it is, yet gamers somehow cannot win at it?

And when 2K, a company who already thinks gamers are brain dead 10 year olds, see this you won't think it will just validate their stance on us?

When they have been proven time and time again to use their personal biases in their funding decisions? Regardless if they have been proven wrong? Its very possible.

These are the same people who said strategy games don't sell when they sell strategy games. These execs are so disconnected to what they are doing and who they are selling to that they forgot where their money comes from.

Its not a long shot to see that 2K could see this as a moment to "broaden the audience" much like Dead Space. Since their biases seem to be quite strong, its also possible they can apply what they learned here to other IPs.

Keep in mind the entire argument started over why one should care that 2K is doing this. I just gave a realistic scenario.
So you are making up a scenario that you think might happen, without any facts to support it.
If you are going that way, then the exact opposite is true, what if some designers are filled with contempt at this move, and decide to make their games harder as a result?
So long as you are only talking about what could possibly happen I can't take you seriously, as you come off as a little paranoid thinking what could possibly happen is what will happen.
Incidentally, your possible scenario could have happened just as easily without them looking at this patch.
No facts?

just look up what 2K has said and done. Its evident they are far to disconnected to what they are doing.

They say strategy games don't sell because they are not contemporary, and yet they just released civilization V.

Their attitude past that wasn't any better.
Saying for me to look at what they've done and to look at their attitude is not providing any facts, if you have anything to back up your argument please show it to me, and why are you bringing up civilization V? It has no relation to this argument, and I'm willing to bet the person who said strategy games don't sell didn't work on the game.
 

Warachia

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Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Winthrop made a completely different argument, I'm arguing that whatever they choose to do to the difficulty of X-COM it will not affect other games, as you seem to be paranoid that it will.
Winthrop was explaining game design and talking about how/why the different difficulties were created.

By the way, great comment, when you don't have a reply just point to somebody else who also argued against your ridiculous idea.
When Easy already gives you all the advantage plus some hefty accuracy bonuses, you are practically unstoppable.

They made it piss easy as it is, yet gamers somehow cannot win at it?

And when 2K, a company who already thinks gamers are brain dead 10 year olds, see this you won't think it will just validate their stance on us?

When they have been proven time and time again to use their personal biases in their funding decisions? Regardless if they have been proven wrong? Its very possible.

These are the same people who said strategy games don't sell when they sell strategy games. These execs are so disconnected to what they are doing and who they are selling to that they forgot where their money comes from.

Its not a long shot to see that 2K could see this as a moment to "broaden the audience" much like Dead Space. Since their biases seem to be quite strong, its also possible they can apply what they learned here to other IPs.

Keep in mind the entire argument started over why one should care that 2K is doing this. I just gave a realistic scenario.
So you are making up a scenario that you think might happen, without any facts to support it.
If you are going that way, then the exact opposite is true, what if some designers are filled with contempt at this move, and decide to make their games harder as a result?
So long as you are only talking about what could possibly happen I can't take you seriously, as you come off as a little paranoid thinking what could possibly happen is what will happen.
Incidentally, your possible scenario could have happened just as easily without them looking at this patch.
No facts?

just look up what 2K has said and done. Its evident they are far to disconnected to what they are doing.

They say strategy games don't sell because they are not contemporary, and yet they just released civilization V.

Their attitude past that wasn't any better.
Saying for me to look at what they've done and to look at their attitude is not providing any facts, if you have anything to back up your argument please show it to me, and why are you bringing up civilization V? It has no relation to this argument, and I'm willing to bet the person who said strategy games don't sell didn't work on the game.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/13/2k-strategy-games-not-contemporary/

I mean really, is it that hard to remember what came out of 2K? Its on this site. In fact, it started a giant flame war. This isn't the only view he has either.

"didn't work on the game?" That is irrelevant because of who he is.

He is the president of 2K. The rest of the board isn't much better. Firaxis can't do shit without 2K because Firaxis is owned by 2K. A game without a publisher is nothing but vaporware. The publisher decides what games are made and what is not. 2K holds all the cards.
"But the problem was that turn-based strategy games were no longer the hottest thing on planet Earth. But this is not just a commercial thing ? strategy games are just not contemporary."

Except he's right, they aren't the best selling games (this was before Civ 5 came out so he was right at the time) and they aren't contemporary, he never said that they wouldn't sell, or that they wouldn't make them, he just made an (accurate) observation that they don't sell as well as other games. I fail to see why you'd get upset over this, it's as much of an observation as "most RPG's aren't contemporary."
 

Warachia

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Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/13/2k-strategy-games-not-contemporary/

I mean really, is it that hard to remember what came out of 2K? Its on this site. In fact, it started a giant flame war. This isn't the only view he has either.

"didn't work on the game?" That is irrelevant because of who he is.

He is the president of 2K. The rest of the board isn't much better. Firaxis can't do shit without 2K because Firaxis is owned by 2K. A game without a publisher is nothing but vaporware. The publisher decides what games are made and what is not. 2K holds all the cards.
"But the problem was that turn-based strategy games were no longer the hottest thing on planet Earth. But this is not just a commercial thing ? strategy games are just not contemporary."

Except he's right, they aren't the best selling games (this was before Civ 5 came out so he was right at the time) and they aren't contemporary, he never said that they wouldn't sell, or that they wouldn't make them, he just made an (accurate) observation that they don't sell as well as other games. I fail to see why you'd get upset over this, it's as much of an observation as "most RPG's aren't contemporary."
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/interview-christophhartmann-2kgames/082216

Except he used that as a justification to turn a strategy game into a shooter. He didn't say it out of the blue or for an observation. He thought that turning a strategy game into another shooter was a good idea because it would sell more.

It would be like him saying Halo should be more like Call of Duty.

He chases after whats "hot." The same mentality that makes EA try to force its IPs into shooters to challenge Call of Duty. Hell, firaxis has extensively said that they had to make MANY compromises so they wouldn't can the project like forcing multiplayer onto it.

Why? Because "multiplayer is where its at."

That and Civ V came out in 2010. He said that in 2011. A year after Civ V was released and 2K got all of its money.
My mistake, I misread the release date, but it isn't an inherently bad thing to give people what they want, that's why they made a turn based shooter (and from what I've heard the FPS is still being worked on). How he phrases it in the interview was he wanted to turn X-COM into a shooter because he thought more people would enjoy it that way.

Sorry to tell you the but everybody in the business world chases after what is "hot", it would be great if everyone could just work on whatever they wanted and polish it into a shiny gem, but they can't, they are limited by time and budget constraints, when you start making a game, you have to ask yourself if it will be popular years from now, adding multiplayer extends the life of your game, and if it is popular, it's obvious why they'd include it.

Incidentally, while he does have a high position, he wouldn't be in charge of the development of these games, that would be left to the team they chose to work on the project, pretty much everything he says can reflect on the company, but not the individual teams like Fireaxis.

Now to get back to the original point of all of this, even if the head of the company wanted to make a game easier, it would be up to the developers to find a way to do it, and because they are in smaller teams this wouldn't carry over to any other game the company is making.
 

TheOrb

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Snapshot penalty should no longer apply when Overwatching without first moving.
Wait, that was a bug!?
I gave up on that ability and a sniper because of that!
RIP Zeus.
 

Warachia

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Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/13/2k-strategy-games-not-contemporary/

I mean really, is it that hard to remember what came out of 2K? Its on this site. In fact, it started a giant flame war. This isn't the only view he has either.

"didn't work on the game?" That is irrelevant because of who he is.

He is the president of 2K. The rest of the board isn't much better. Firaxis can't do shit without 2K because Firaxis is owned by 2K. A game without a publisher is nothing but vaporware. The publisher decides what games are made and what is not. 2K holds all the cards.
"But the problem was that turn-based strategy games were no longer the hottest thing on planet Earth. But this is not just a commercial thing ? strategy games are just not contemporary."

Except he's right, they aren't the best selling games (this was before Civ 5 came out so he was right at the time) and they aren't contemporary, he never said that they wouldn't sell, or that they wouldn't make them, he just made an (accurate) observation that they don't sell as well as other games. I fail to see why you'd get upset over this, it's as much of an observation as "most RPG's aren't contemporary."
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/interview-christophhartmann-2kgames/082216

Except he used that as a justification to turn a strategy game into a shooter. He didn't say it out of the blue or for an observation. He thought that turning a strategy game into another shooter was a good idea because it would sell more.

It would be like him saying Halo should be more like Call of Duty.

He chases after whats "hot." The same mentality that makes EA try to force its IPs into shooters to challenge Call of Duty. Hell, firaxis has extensively said that they had to make MANY compromises so they wouldn't can the project like forcing multiplayer onto it.

Why? Because "multiplayer is where its at."

That and Civ V came out in 2010. He said that in 2011. A year after Civ V was released and 2K got all of its money.
My mistake, I misread the release date, but it isn't an inherently bad thing to give people what they want, that's why they made a turn based shooter (and from what I've heard the FPS is still being worked on). How he phrases it in the interview was he wanted to turn X-COM into a shooter because he thought more people would enjoy it that way.

Sorry to tell you the but everybody in the business world chases after what is "hot", it would be great if everyone could just work on whatever they wanted and polish it into a shiny gem, but they can't, they are limited by time and budget constraints, when you start making a game, you have to ask yourself if it will be popular years from now, adding multiplayer extends the life of your game, and if it is popular, it's obvious why they'd include it.

Incidentally, while he does have a high position, he wouldn't be in charge of the development of these games, that would be left to the team they chose to work on the project, pretty much everything he says can reflect on the company, but not the individual teams like Fireaxis.

Now to get back to the original point of all of this, even if the head of the company wanted to make a game easier, it would be up to the developers to find a way to do it, and because they are in smaller teams this wouldn't carry over to any other game the company is making.
Actually he would. Publishers can and will set demands for the development team. Some specific, some vague. After all, all of Firaxis is owned and operated by 2K. Same for irrational games.

Secondly, he didn't say he wanted XCOM to be a shooter because it would be a better game. He wanted it to be a shooter because its easier to sell to people. Not because it would be good.

Why do you think he brought up Kanye West? Because he is good? Hell no, because he is easier to sell.

Publishers are not there to make good games. They are there to make money. The only reason the XCOM shooter is in development hell is because the shooter had so much bad press the only way to make it worse would be to make it a game about rape.

And the original point of mine was that if 2K is run by idiots who try to apply "EA logic" to their business practices, its still possible for them to pull an EA games moment. This can happen because 2K has the ability to make demands of its development team because 2K owns those teams entirely.
I think you mean to say he could, even if he told them to make it easier it would be up to them to implement it.
He said he wanted it to be a shooter because that's what he thought people enjoy more today, obviously he's doing it because he thinks it will sell well but he never said that he was making a cash grab, in fact he said the exact opposite.

Of course publishers are there to make money, without publishers, good game companies would have died before they could show off what they could do.

The original point of yours was you made up some "bar of entry" and assumed a small change would affect every game around it, it's possible for everyone to do something really stupid, regardless of who they are or what they run.

Incidentally, even if 2K has the ability to make demands I don't ever remember reading a story where they did. In this case, they handed X-COM to different people and asked them what they wanted to do with it, the shooter and strategy game are what came of that.
 

Warachia

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Ultratwinkie said:
Warachia said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Actually he would. Publishers can and will set demands for the development team. Some specific, some vague. After all, all of Firaxis is owned and operated by 2K. Same for irrational games.

Secondly, he didn't say he wanted XCOM to be a shooter because it would be a better game. He wanted it to be a shooter because its easier to sell to people. Not because it would be good.

Why do you think he brought up Kanye West? Because he is good? Hell no, because he is easier to sell.

Publishers are not there to make good games. They are there to make money. The only reason the XCOM shooter is in development hell is because the shooter had so much bad press the only way to make it worse would be to make it a game about rape.

And the original point of mine was that if 2K is run by idiots who try to apply "EA logic" to their business practices, its still possible for them to pull an EA games moment. This can happen because 2K has the ability to make demands of its development team because 2K owns those teams entirely.
I think you mean to say he could, even if he told them to make it easier it would be up to them to implement it.
He said he wanted it to be a shooter because that's what he thought people enjoy more today, obviously he's doing it because he thinks it will sell well but he never said that he was making a cash grab, in fact he said the exact opposite.

Of course publishers are there to make money, without publishers, good game companies would have died before they could show off what they could do.

The original point of yours was you made up some "bar of entry" and assumed a small change would affect every game around it, it's possible for everyone to do something really stupid, regardless of who they are or what they run.

Incidentally, even if 2K has the ability to make demands I don't ever remember reading a story where they did. In this case, they handed X-COM to different people and asked them what they wanted to do with it, the shooter and strategy game are what came of that.
Yes, 2K did make demands. Multiplayer was their demand. In fact, firaxis made a very basic multiplayer component so 2K wouldn't cancel the project or lose faith. They already had low expectations on it. Very little effort was put into it for a reason. This has been all over the 2K forums for months before XCOM's launch. XCOM was never a multiplayer game, all the tension was gone in a multiplayer space.

the company that is making the XCOM shooter all conflict each other. On the 2K forum itself developers say XCOM was a forced thing, others say it was a stupid experiment to blend every other franchise and genre into a single FPS game, which is stupid game design no matter how you put it because they were grabbing game mechanics left and right throughout the development. It was scattered on day one and the game had off and on development for 5 years.
Could you provide a source, after I looked it up that seemed to be a decision Firaxis made, not 2K. Not quite sure I get what you mean when you say the tension is gone in a multiplayer space.

You're going to have to clarify when you say "the company that is making the XCOM shooter all conflict each other." So far I haven't seen developers talk about it being stupid, just that they didn't want to make it a bad game, I've also never seen it described as that experiment you mentioned.