Yes I smoke.. So I'm the devil now?

[Captain Pirate]

I don't hate people for smoking, I just don't understand why you would considering the huge risks.

I mean at best, it fucking stinks, it makes people around you cough and generally make the area around you quite unpleasant, at worst, it kills you slowly and can potentially kill others too, for example your family if you smoke a lot and they are subjected to such smoke every day.

And I really cannot stand anyone who has young kids and still smokes heavily. If I met someone who smoked 30 a day, had a young child and smoked while the child was close by, it would take some sort of miracle for me not to just punch them.

I don't mind smoking on your own away from other people, but I just don't understand why anyone would do it in the first place.

 

[Electrogecko]

Wow, so it's almost like how gamers are viewed by society?

What exactly is your point? That gamers aren't viewed in a good light? Wow, ground-breaking stuff there.

OT: I used to smoke cigs regularly; they were nice, people who didn't like it could kiss my ass. And I wasn't even a polite smoker, my shit was in your face even if I had no business smoking in front of you.

Just pointing out a parallel....rather bluntly.

OT:
Smoking an entire cigarette always seemed like too much to me. I'll ask for a drag from my friends whenever they light up, (which isn't often) but the couple of times I've ever attempted to down one by myself I ended up feeling like shit afterward. Maybe I'm not doing it right?

My experiences with marijuana have been much more pleasant on the other hand....

It all comes down to common courtesy. If I'm in an open outside area that's not on my property, I couldn't care less if somebody smoked next to me....you know....just don't blow it in my face. I'm sure if I became a parent I might care a bit more. I suppose it can be difficult not to judge those who've let the habit overrun their life, but nobody can understand nicotine addiction without experiencing it.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Smoke all you want. Dont care. Just not in front of non smokers.It sounds shitty i know, but think of it as the same as a friend playing loud music you hate 2 feet from you.....wouldn't you want them to move? Guess its just respect for those around you. You chose to smoke, others don't, why force them to breath it in? Same with music, food, religion and everything - you should never force others to accept things you do.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

No problem with it as long as you smoking is not annoying me.

Yeah, same here. You already established that you don't smoke in people's faces or in "no smoking" areas; if you can help it, don't smoke around pregnant women or children and I'm good.

 

[Hobohodo]

Does a non-smoker have the right to tell a smoker to not smoke in an open space like a bus stop or park or parking lot? Heck no! The non-smoker can move their own selfish but a few steps away from the smoke. I've smelled BO from individuals far worse than cigarette smoke. Don't even start about getting "cancer" from 2nd hand smoke for if that was true, there would be tons of smokers in hospitals for cancer because they smoked for years, but there are only a handful at best. It's a popular theory, but still needs far more facts before it is true.

.... It is true? It's heavily linked to cancer, you cannot simply dismiss it because you want too, it doesn't only result in cancer ya know, it causes allot of lung problems, many smokers have problems breathing, is that not enough evidence that it's bad for your health? The fumes are dangerous, whether you like it or not, people who inhale it are in danger, so much as the smoker.
Me, myself, have always tried to avoid smoking, especially after loosing my father to cancer, I would never want the same to happen to me, so, obviously, I would never do it myself, but I don't judge people who do, as long as they don't do it around me, or, well, at least not in an enclosed room, I have no problem with it.

 

[Fluffer]

Interesting, but humans have a propensity towards wilfully poisoning themselves: Alcohol, caffeine, nicotine (add poison of choice here). I think these days a whole lot of it comes down to conditioning. Lots and lots of conditioning.

The delivery mechanism, tobacco, probably has a lot to do with it. Smell is a big thing, and smoked there's a visual element too. It's a pretty nasty one with lots of carcinogens, tar and what have you. In addition if you drink caffeine the person three feet away is not likely to be at risk of having it enter their system.

On balance, of those three poisons taken in moderation (assuming smoking cigarettes for nicotine) the smokes will probably be worse just down to the crap that comes in the cigarette too.

I currently smoke and in the last 10 years I have quit when it got boring and started again if I felt like it, probably 6 months on 6 months off. Same with caffeine and alcohol (addiction and withdrawal is just interesting).

People like and need to have some type of person to look down on for a little ego massage, so you may as well smile at the slightly more acceptable junkie and puff away. We're all going to die soon enough.

 

[vidirg]

I personally hate smoking but don't take me as an ignorant asshole because I hate smoking but not the smokers the smell just gets to me and I cant seem to breath properly because of this vile smell, though I know a couple of smokers that are great people but I just hate the smell.

 

[A Free Man]

snip.

snip

Uhh yeah.. I am seeking comfort not answers.. How did you know?! You must be a psychic or something. Nice assumption there.

Haha sorry but when somebody asks how many people consider them evil for performing a certain action I think it is safe to assume that in some way they are looking for people to agree with them so they can reassure themself of the validity of a bad habit. Maybe I'm wrong I'm not claiming to be all knowing but that is just what I get when I read in between the lines of your original post.

 

[sabercrusader]

Well, I've grown up around both of my parents, who've smoked for several decades and smoke about a pack a day each it seems. I can't stand the smell, like, at all. And, for some odd reason, I find it really weird when I see a female teenager smoke. I don't know why, but it unsettles me more than seeing a male teenager smoke. I don't hate smoking, and I don't hate the people that do it, but people who think it's "cool", or people who are obnoxious and blow smoke into other people's faces and whatnot are annoying, but you can find people like that for just about anything. for example, in Algebra, I sit next to one of the most annoying girls that I've ever met. She's constantly chewing gum, and she chomps down on it and sounds like a complete pig when she does. She does this constantly, while also blowing bubbles during the middle of class or during a test. Then, the guy that sits behind her, always messes with her, so she's constantly whining to him and telling him to stop doing whatever it is he's doing. I can't explain in words how fucking annoying it is. and this happens every. single. day. But yeah, back on topic, you're not the devil for smoking. I don't agree with it, but it's your choice, and so long as you know the consequences, then you know what you do and do not want to do.

 

[Amphoteric]

Smoking doesn't make you evil, it just makes you a fuck tonne less healthy than me.

 

[Shpongled]

No, I'm being serious.
Nature dictates that no human being would choose to shorten their lifespan so dramatically. So what on earth drives a person to go against instinct? Hence why I have said no one in their right mind would smoke, leaving only the mentally or emotionally unstable left. Have you considered this at all?

Oh. Wow... In that case then, go fuck yourself. Nature dictates that you not live in a house with electricity and use computers, fly, cross oceans... And yet, we do those things every day. And there are millions of people that show disregard to self safety and indulge in risk taking behaviours. So how about you stop worrying about people smoking, and start worrying about talking out of your ass less.

I'll end this by saying that the oldest man in the world died a few years back, and was nearly 116 years old when he pegged it, and was a keen smoker.

So you are arguing self-preservation, something which exists in all living organisms, does not exist in humans? And you are comparing that to inventions...how?
Tribes in Papa New Guinea live without modern technology so what is your point exactly? We choose to live with tech because it makes life easier. How does that relate to self-preservation?

Smoking is not risky though, it is flat-out damaging. You can participate in an activity, e.g. bungee jumping, and minimise the risk with safety checks and so on, but there is no such method of minimising the risk of smoking as it will cause cancer as well as other health problems.

Oh hell no - that argument is just tragically misguided. Remember "correlation does not imply causation". Fact remains that smoking is extremely bad for you regardless of who you are. Go find a group of 40~ year old long-term smokers and see how many are in good health. Or are you really wanting to argue that that one man suddenly renders all scientific work on smoking wrong?

Simply put: humans have always been doing stupid shit for kicks. I don't suppose you watched An Idiot Abroad? There were tribal people jumping off 40foot high rickety structures on the top of a small dirt bank with bits of string tied to their feet. I'm betting they've had a good few injuries from that, but they're still doing it, so the whole self-preservation instinct idea obviously has some holes in it. Not to say we don't try and survive, just that we don't always opt for the safest option. The fact that we've been to the moon or climbed K2 or whatever does show that as a race we're willing to do some really stupid stuff for very little ultimate benefit.

I don't know any numbers for sure but a quick google came up with these numbers:
* 0.2% for men who never smoked (0.4% for women)
* 5.5% for male former smokers (2.6% in women)
* 15.9% for current male smokers (9.5% for women)
* 24.4% for male ?heavy smokers? defined as smoking more than 5 cigarettes per day (18.5% for women)

(http://lungcancer.about.com/od/Lung-Cancer-And-Smoking/f/Smokers-Lung-Cancer.htm)

So in people that stop smoking relatively early in their lives that's a 1 in 20 chance of developing lung cancer in males, 1 in 40 in females. Now those are fairly good odds overall, yeh you could (and should) say it's still stupid, but then i reckon i've crossed the road at some point or other where i've had worse odds than those of coming out fine. Even 1 in 4 for heavy lifelong smokers isn't exactly a foregone conclusion. In gambling terms those are fairly good odds. Yeh, this is your life we're talking about, but still, fairly good odds overall, could be worse.

The reason i'm posting this is because you seem to be under the impression that smoking is a foregone conclusion, that once you start smoking then thats it, you may as well have just slit your wrists. But that's clearly not the case going by these numbers. When i played WoW a few years back i was in a guild full of 30-40 year old smokers. I can think of at least 10 people over 30 that smoked regularly in that guild, none of them have developed lung cancer and as far as i'm aware they all lived healthy enough lives for them to live as they wanted to live. Going by the numbers that was roughly representative of of the population, maybe statiscally speaking one or two people in that guild should have cancer right now, but certainly not all them.

I'll leave this with a question; how come fat people aren't considered the scum of the earth when smokers are? Diet/exercise related deaths were higher than smoking related deaths in the US last time i checked, fat people smell (see? i can make sweeping generalisations too) and take up more room than they should, why haven't we launched a hate campaign at those yet? At least most smokers can walk to the shops without getting out of breath.

Disclaimer: Yes, smoking is bad, kids, don't smoke, it's not cool. And no, i don't have anything against fat people, people can do whatever they want with bodies, i don't care, that goes for fat people, smokers, crackheads, bunjee jumpers, astronauts, whoever, do whatever you want. If someone is blowing smoke in your face then he's a cock and should be disliked for being rude, not for smoking. Rude people are rude people, smokers are smokers, sometimes they're one and the same, most of the time they aren't.

 

[Ninjat_126]

You're breathing in a bunch of toxic, poisonous poisons and exposing people around you to them?

I get kind of pissed off at smokers, more so since I got diagnosed with a chronic lung condition, and that people tend to smoke around the entrances/exits to shopping centers and the like. I leave the building to get fresh air, not secondhand smoke.

That said, as long as you're not breathing it in other people's faces or exploding into a cloud of smoke whenever you get shot, then it's your decision. You're not the devil, people who think you are are idiots, but still, it's not helping your health in the long-term at all.

 

[Fluffer]

Interesting, but humans have a propensity towards wilfully poisoning themselves... [cut for space]

Just FYI caffeine and alcohol are not necessarily bad for you, unlike nicotine. Also the latter is far more addictive. It's like comparing weed to meth.

Nicotine is not necessarily bad for you. The standard method of delivery is. More recent methods of delivery, for instance inhalation of a vaporised solution containing nicotine, are proving much cleaner if you will. I will not be surprised if it becomes even more refined.

Frankly 'not necessarily bad for you' is quite vague though.

As for addictive qualities, initially nicotine is the most addictive physically. However, physical addiction to caffeine once it has set in is (in my experience) much nastier. Withdrawal from nicotine is unpleasant yes, but even the headaches are nothing compared to the blinding headaches, trembles and actual body pains of caffeine withdrawal. Anecdotally a friend of mine in the US experienced the same after his doctor told him to quit Mountain Dew (he decided to go cold turkey).

The psychological part of the addiction has common denominators across individuals, but can also vary tremendously too so I'l leave it there. I am afraid caffeine/alcohol drinkers are just the same as smokers and no better or worse. These are all poisonous chemicals consumed for certain effects, which in moderation should cause minimal damage to the body (assuming the smoker chooses the cleanest delivery mechanism currently available).

Smoking via vapour is still in its infancy. Should it become the norm I wonder how the status quo might change.

 

[CommanderX1125]

So being forthright is being immature? I fail to see at which stage I was being immature as you seemed to be concluding that risk taking means that person has no sense of self-preservation.

The reason why smoking can go against self-preservation is simple: denial.

"Denial (also called abnegation) is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence."

If you had a transparent chest, lungs, and could constantly monitor your health numerically I really wonder how many people would smoke.
You can't compare smoking to bungee jumping. With the latter if you follow safety procedures, it is safe. There is no such method of smoking safely. Yes hard drugs are more destructive, but which one can you buy from your local shop? Plus you should consider any permanent damage smoking may have, even in the short term. If you ever want to play a sport, get into shape etc the lung damage may cause you a lot of grief.

If this were the case, in your last paragraph, and people could monitor their health in such a fashion, nothing would change. People are people, and to suppose that people won't do behavior that is detrimental to themselves in any situation over a period of time is foolish.

Do you wish for a perfect example of a risky behavior that is both legal, and yet dangerous, and you've likely partaken and enjoyed? Sassafras tea. Has known carcinogens, and is still enjoyed, albeit by the older population at large. Also, comparing smoking to bungee jumping isn't a huge leap of faith. How exactly do you think that got started? Let you in on a secret, it hasn't always been nearly as safe, and even with all the safety checks, many people die every year from it, from either mistakes, equipment malfunction, or the stress on their bodies.

Also, "safe", for all of you tossing it around, is a matter of perspective. Some people feel "safe" climbing mountains, or working in fireworks factories. Just takes one spark (and that's so easy to make happen) and you'll be a cinder, as with the rest of the factory.

 

[Snowblindblitz]

Smoking doesn't bother me as long as you are polite about it. And as for the hate on smokers, meh. They enjoy it, and everyone has their vices. Most people who get angry at smokers are pretty much judgmental assholes too short-sighted to see that they have one of the worse vices of all: a self-inflated sense of self by belittling others for their vices.

Every year something new is labeled as bad for your health. Once you give someone the facts on that, it is their right as a human being to do what they will.

 

[deathspa202]

Eeyup... and your avatar is Kefka.

 

[Digikid]

Does a non-smoker have the right to tell a smoker to not smoke in an open space like a bus stop or park or parking lot? Heck no! The non-smoker can move their own selfish but a few steps away from the smoke. I've smelled BO from individuals far worse than cigarette smoke. Don't even start about getting "cancer" from 2nd hand smoke for if that was true, there would be tons of smokers in hospitals for cancer because they smoked for years, but there are only a handful at best. It's a popular theory, but still needs far more facts before it is true.

I don't smoke. I don't really need to smoke. But that does not give me permission to talk **** about people for such a basic habit that can be easily walked away from if it bothered me.

Actually they have every right to do just that.

 

[s0p0g]

i actually kind of like it (duh, no need to do it otherwise)
especially to make fun of it; i mean, just say "i breathe death!" (at least it works like that in german; i dunno if one would necessarily think of breathing as in exspiring in english?) with a creepy voice and look like a psychotic sociopath while you're at it; will always get you a laugh, even from semi-militant non-smokers ^^

i'm 26, started like 4 months ago; never was a hater on smokers; some time ago there was a law established which prohibits smoking at several closed areas, among them: bars (!!); that really sucked; one has to stink after a night at the bar of my trust, and it totally cannot be that one can clearly look from one end of the bar to the other. it just felt wrong.

 

[CommanderX1125]

Good point - look at fat people. They can see the damage yet just deny it.
Still point remains that no one of a healthy mind would smoke.

Sassafras tea...never had or even heard of it. Plus it hardly has the list of problems associated with it as smoking does.

Any figures for that claim about bungee jumping? Plus your point is still irrelevant as it can be safe; smoking cannot.

Safe is about mitigating risk and danger. If you went bungee jumping after having a medical, 5 safety ropes, engineers to inspect the area etc, the risk is negligible. That is never, ever the case with smoking. It is always detrimental to ones health.

Think I got the right quote post, if I didn't sorry.

Who are you to say, "A healthy mind"? Sigmund Freud was pretty healthy in the area of the mind, given he's the father of modern psychology, and he experimented with cocaine, and it's effects on his mind. Even if you argue he isn't, there are plenty of other examples.

Sassafras tea is derived from the roots of the sassafras tree, has three distinct leaf patterns on the plant, and it's hard to describe past that. Root beer would be the best way to put it, in it's taste, a very mild root beer (actually, it was the main ingredient in rootbeer originally), with no fizz. Anyway, the link below will help clarify what it can do, and there are many of the older population who drink it still, and I have partaken more than once, and no, I've never had any stupors nor hallucinations from it. Anyway, "hardly has the list of health problems associated with it."?

http://www.drugs.com/npp/sassafras.html

Figures to bungee jumping, are we going to go with when it officially became an "extreme sport" or some such garbage, and in the modern day and age? I'll assume so for the sake of argument, plus it's impossible to nail down a true date (there are tribes through out various areas and cultures, on in particular which name escapes me that ties vines to their ankles and jump from their roofs for the excitement of it as recreation, and have done this for as long as the tribe can ever recall).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungee_jumping

My point wasn't they just die in droves, but that it was dangerous, and it is, without a doubt. Even with all the safety possible, there are several effects associated with it which are impossible to avoid for the simple fact that the physics in it stress the physical systems of a person drastically, from eye damage, hearing loss, and rarely death, not even factoring in issues of equipment or guidance. What's more, these effects are instantaneous (by comparison), while smoking is over a very long period of time, and may not even occur after all those years.

Also, "safe" isn't an exact term. It's like saying something is "ethical" when it is truly impossible to be 100% ethical in any act, even altruistic acts (seemingly such) have side-effects. Yes, smoking does have effects, I don't think anyone has denied that and it would be a fool to say such, however, even with all those safety personnel and equipment in place, you're still subjecting the human body to stresses it is not equipped for in any measure, and there are effects. So, try addressing my point, and not simply saying without any meat to your words that my point doesn't apply here.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

People can live the short time they have however they want and anyone who has a problem with that needs to take a second to figure out why they are spending theirs caring what other people fucking do with their own.

Go ahead and spend some of your life giving a shit what some guy does to his lungs. Me? I'm gonna do shit that, you know, is fun. But I'm sure on your deathbed all those times you took time out of your life to stop and think "why is that idiot smoking, herp derp" will come flooding back and you'll be glad.

Anyone that gives a shit what someone else chooses to do with their life needs to get a life of their own.