"You can't love animal's if you're not a vegetarian"

[Starbird]

It's not *my* dog or horse. If I had a pet cow or pig, I wouldn't want to eat it. If not, no problem. I'd go as far as saying "if you can eat one animal, you should be okay with eating any animal "

So go visit a prostitute and then if you start feeling bad about abusing another human being for your own enjoyment, just remember, it's not *your* daughter.

I'm a vegetarian and I do think that it requires an insane amount of cognitive dissonance to say you love animals in one breath and then say that it's okay to kill them and eat their dead bodies. Could I say I loved women if I was a rapist, or that I loved black people if I was a member of the KKK?

I'm quite fine with prostitution too, if it comes to that .

But seriously, I agree that it's a tricky issue. I can only talk from my own beliefs and experiences over the last 30 odd years. I've had many beloved pets who were essentially members of my family.

That said, I'm fine with people eating meat, veggies or whatever tickles their fancy. Animals, like it or not, are just that. Animals. We shouldn't kill them needlessly or at random, but as a food source - zero problems.

And comparing being a racist or rapist to eating a burger...well, there's cognitive dissonance and there's cognitive dissonance.

 

[Phasmal]

It's not *my* dog or horse. If I had a pet cow or pig, I wouldn't want to eat it. If not, no problem. I'd go as far as saying "if you can eat one animal, you should be okay with eating any animal "

So go visit a prostitute and then if you start feeling bad about abusing another human being for your own enjoyment, just remember, it's not *your* daughter.

I'm a vegetarian and I do think that it requires an insane amount of cognitive dissonance to say you love animals in one breath and then say that it's okay to kill them and eat their dead bodies. Could I say I loved women if I was a rapist, or that I loved black people if I was a member of the KKK?

Wow. Just wow.
I've got cognative dissonance because I care about animals and eat meat but doing so makes me comparable to a racist and a rapist?
Is that really how you view most people?
That's just sad. And it doesn't really help the holier-than-thou stereotype veggies get.

 

[Pinkamena]

Ridiculous idea. Reminds me of the old "If you are not a religious person (preferrably Christian), you do not have morals."

 

[Defenestra]

I'm always torn in matters like this. What can I say that will meaningfully contribute? Is expressing my thoughts on the matter going to help, or hinder?

Ah well. I shall just go ahead with it.

Apostrophes. Please use them properly. They are not for pluralizing things, they are for contractions and possessives.

As for the actual topic, I'm going to go hang out with the people who think the assertion is too binary.

 

[peruvianskys]

That said, I'm fine with people eating meat, veggies or whatever tickles their fancy. Animals, like it or not, are just that. Animals. We shouldn't kill them needlessly or at random, but as a food source - zero problems.

But killing animals for food is killing them needlessly and at random. No one needs to eat animal products, especially in the West. Killing animals for meat is as pointless as killing them for fur.

Wow. Just wow.
I've got cognative dissonance because I care about animals and eat meat but doing so makes me comparable to a racist and a rapist?
Is that really how you view most people?
That's just sad. And it doesn't really help the holier-than-thou stereotype veggies get.

The activities are not comparable in moral value but in the amount of dissonance required. Instead of just dismissing me how about you justify why you can claim to love a population of creatures while actively encouraging their painful deaths and eventual necrophagia?

I don't think there's really any correlation between whether you like your animals and whether you eat them or not.

Thanks for stating your opinion, care to justify it in any meaningful way?

 

[DugMachine]

I love animals, LOVE TO EAT EM. No but really, I do love them. I volunteer frequently at animal rescues and try to do environmental clean ups (even going into environmental sciences) as much as I can. But because I enjoy some meat all of that is totally thrown out the window? /ok

 

[Phasmal]

Wow. Just wow.
I've got cognative dissonance because I care about animals and eat meat but doing so makes me comparable to a racist and a rapist?
Is that really how you view most people?
That's just sad. And it doesn't really help the holier-than-thou stereotype veggies get.

The activities are not comparable in moral value but in the amount of dissonance required. Instead of just dismissing me how about you justify why you can claim to love a population of creatures while actively encouraging their painful deaths and eventual necrophagia?

I'm not dismissing you, because... well... there's not much to dismiss.
You say people can't love animals and eat meat, but people do.
Most people eat meat but still care about animals.
I'm guessing you've eaten meat at least once, does that mean you hated animals and encouraged them to die painfully?

I am for humane food industry, I do not at all advocate painful deaths for animals.

Also, I'm pretty sure some holier than thou vegan could come in and one-up you for being awful for drinking milk or using anything with animal products in it.
Does that mean you do not love animals?

 

[peruvianskys]

You say people can't love animals and eat meat, but people do.

I'm not arguing that people cannot love animals and eat meat.

I'm arguing that those who do can only do so through massive amounts of cognitive dissonance and self-delusion.

I'm guessing you've eaten meat at least once, does that mean you hated animals and encouraged them to die painfully?

It means that at one point I had not examined my actions to the point where I realized the fundamental contradiction between a compassionate, respectful approach towards animals and the practice of killing them, cutting their dead bodies into pieces, and eating them.

I am for humane food industry, I do not at all advocate painful deaths for animals.

You're still killing a living creature that doesn't need to die, so I don't give a good Goddamn whether or not it's "humane." There's no such thing as killing a living being humanely if its for your own sensual pleasure.

Also, I'm pretty sure some holier than thou vegan could come in and one-up you for being awful for drinking milk or using anything with animal products in it.
Does that mean you do not love animals?

I don't use animal products anyway, but thanks.

And for the record, I hate animals. I can't stand them, I've never had pets and I hate zoos and farms and all that. But I also hate a lot of other things that I'm not particularly interested in murdering.

 

[Phasmal]

Snip.

Ugh blah.
This is going nowhere so I'm gonna sum up nicely.

I've never killed an animal in my life. The meat industry is not going to stop if I stopped eating meat. Which I wont anyway, for various reasons.
I thought about becoming a vegetarian a few years ago, but I already have dietary restrictions due to allergies, and I really don't want another one.
You can think that people are deluded for not being vegitarian and still loving animals, I disagree and think that's pretty judgmental.
But either way, I feel neither of our opinions will change.

 

[MrFalconfly]

I absolutely loved my cat (loved, he unfortunately had to be put down because he was suffering from cat-leukemia, I was devastated, especially because I hadn't had the chance to say a proper good buy to him since I was at a boarding school at the time, although I'd probably have been equally devastated anyways but it did come as a hit in the gut when you're getting that kind of news through the phone).

I also like to eat a medium done steak.

Humans evolved to digest an omnivorous diet meaning we're capable of digesting both meat and plant food. Yeah of course we're capable of surviving on a strictly vegetarian diet but that would require a scheduled diet to rival that of my dads who have type-1 (the autoimmune kind, not the one triggered from an unhealthy diet) diabetes.

Personally I'm very pragmatic when it comes to my diet so I'll have no problem eating Bambi (including me having to pull the trigger and gut him to get to that tasty deer meat).

So I'll have to call b/s when it comes to that argument that "you can't love animals without being vegetarian".

 

[peruvianskys]

I've never killed an animal in my life. The meat industry is not going to stop if I stopped eating meat. Which I wont anyway, for various reasons.

This is the only thing I'm going to respond to:

You should do things based on whether or not they're right or wrong, not whether not all evil on earth will stop if you do them. The rape culture will continue going strong despite the fact that I don't rape women. That doesn't give me the right to continue doing it. Slavery is still going to drive the world's economy despite the fact that I don't buy shit made by unpaid labor. That doesn't mean that I should just give up.

So do whatever you want; you're right that what you eat won't make a huge difference in the long run. But I guarantee that what does make a big difference in the long run is whether or not people decide to do what's right even if they can't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Have a nice day, seriously.

 

[Sougo]

I love eating animals.

And I'm not sharing my food with anyone who thinks otherwise.

Now then, I'm hungry...

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

I had to look into this thread as I've been a vegan for 9 1/2 years (my god). The argument is bunk, and just like religion, food and morality is touchy as hell and it's not worth making enemies even by pleading your point. If someone is genuinely curious I'll indulge them aspects of my journey, but I'm not bringing it up un-requested.

It's not a diet, or a simple choice, it's an entire lifestyle that calls to you and you either feel it 100% or you're not going to do it. But no matter what, don't feel guilty about food. It's priority number one for all creatures on this planet and deeply personal to many cultures. I've been ridiculed, disowned, kicked out of restaurants, and suffered much trauma, but I CANNOT do it. I don't even see as steak as food, unless I'm on an island and death is near and I have to find something and kill it. Even in that situation, I'm thanking it for giving its life so that I may live, and I would certainly be upset about it.

My only exception to all this is a lack of understanding as to how some animals are awarded protections universally (with exceptions, like dogs in China), and others are "food animals" that can go through what they do to fill billions of plates (I'm not going to talk about that process, don't worry). Happiness comes from respecting others and not insisting that anyone deviate from their choices (unless they're a rapist or something, obviously). Everyone I talk to eats the animals just by odds and ratios alone, so I would be a fucking nutcase if I made it some kind of mission to make everyone I saw live the way I do.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Don't worry about it, OP. It's one of the most screwloose arguments ever.

I love dogs. I love taking care of other people's dogs, I loved my own dog to freaking bits. Yet, big shock, I eat steak every once in a while. There's no moral law that dictates I have no right to like dogs because I'm an eeeeevil steak-loving person.

We're apex predators, for starters. We're animals. Animals eat one another in nature, and animals have no concept of morality. All they have is instinct. Our instincts tell us to eat whatever the Hell it is we can in order to survive, so we do that. We're biologically capable of processing meat, so why shouldn't we eat it?

It's not like some noble lion is going to traipse out in front of the world's staunchest vegan, swathed in Godrays, and speak with Liam Neeson's voice to say thank you for sparing them.

 

[wolf thing]

that total rubish. but what bothers me is when people who eat meat call me a murderer because i killed a fox who was trying to kill my chickens, those people are bastards, at least with vegetarians it make sense given there choices.

 

[Woodsey]

I don't like animals and I eat meat. Sounds about right.

 

[Logan Cochrane]

That 'argument' is bad, and whoever makes it should feel bad.

We're animals, that eat meat.

It's part of our evolution, DEAL WIT IT!

Part of our Evolution? is that a joke?...Tell me if it is i'm terrible on picking up on this stuff


You can survive without meat there's no necessity for it. The human race wouldn't end if we all became allergic to the stuff. We're omnivores, and since we live in a society that allows you to choose what you want to eat and both meat and other types of food are always available whether you eat meat or not is optional.

The human race wouldn't end but many would certainly die of malnutrition. There are a number of nutrients that don't occur very often in nature. Growing them and/or synthesizing enough for the entirety of humanity would not be something done fast. Said deficiencies are taken care of in Vegetarians and Vegans by things like supplements, 'enriched' foods, and a small minority of plants. Sudden allergy to meat would cause widespread death.

 

[Logan Cochrane]

Also, what about the amount of insects and arachnids that are legally allowed in our food by the FDA? does that count against Vegetarians and Vegans?

 

[II2]

That statement doesn't hold up to me, who has cried at the loss of loved pets, but eats fish and poultry and less frequently bacon and beef.

I am generally FOND of animals, and had much warmer feelings still for those that I've come to know and/or care for. Same is generally true of people, too, I suppose.

--

But this kind of TOTAL STATEMENT isn't really meant to foster discussion, so much as rally and embolden the people already leaning towards the cause, to which effect it works. You can lament the stupidity of the people saying it, but I think on some level they get why they're wielding those words.

 

[Scarim Coral]

So? The correction would be, you can't love chicken if you eat chicken legs. To state "animal" is to state ALL of them and I know for sure that most people don't eat cat and dog!