"You can't love animal's if you're not a vegetarian"

[peruvianskys]

You say people can't love animals and eat meat, but people do.

I'm not arguing that people cannot love animals and eat meat.

I'm arguing that those who do can only do so through massive amounts of cognitive dissonance and self-delusion.

I'm guessing you've eaten meat at least once, does that mean you hated animals and encouraged them to die painfully?

It means that at one point I had not examined my actions to the point where I realized the fundamental contradiction between a compassionate, respectful approach towards animals and the practice of killing them, cutting their dead bodies into pieces, and eating them.

I am for humane food industry, I do not at all advocate painful deaths for animals.

You're still killing a living creature that doesn't need to die, so I don't give a good Goddamn whether or not it's "humane." There's no such thing as killing a living being humanely if its for your own sensual pleasure.

Also, I'm pretty sure some holier than thou vegan could come in and one-up you for being awful for drinking milk or using anything with animal products in it.
Does that mean you do not love animals?

I don't use animal products anyway, but thanks.

And for the record, I hate animals. I can't stand them, I've never had pets and I hate zoos and farms and all that. But I also hate a lot of other things that I'm not particularly interested in murdering.

 

[Phasmal]

Snip.

Ugh blah.
This is going nowhere so I'm gonna sum up nicely.

I've never killed an animal in my life. The meat industry is not going to stop if I stopped eating meat. Which I wont anyway, for various reasons.
I thought about becoming a vegetarian a few years ago, but I already have dietary restrictions due to allergies, and I really don't want another one.
You can think that people are deluded for not being vegitarian and still loving animals, I disagree and think that's pretty judgmental.
But either way, I feel neither of our opinions will change.

 

[MrFalconfly]

I absolutely loved my cat (loved, he unfortunately had to be put down because he was suffering from cat-leukemia, I was devastated, especially because I hadn't had the chance to say a proper good buy to him since I was at a boarding school at the time, although I'd probably have been equally devastated anyways but it did come as a hit in the gut when you're getting that kind of news through the phone).

I also like to eat a medium done steak.

Humans evolved to digest an omnivorous diet meaning we're capable of digesting both meat and plant food. Yeah of course we're capable of surviving on a strictly vegetarian diet but that would require a scheduled diet to rival that of my dads who have type-1 (the autoimmune kind, not the one triggered from an unhealthy diet) diabetes.

Personally I'm very pragmatic when it comes to my diet so I'll have no problem eating Bambi (including me having to pull the trigger and gut him to get to that tasty deer meat).

So I'll have to call b/s when it comes to that argument that "you can't love animals without being vegetarian".

 

[peruvianskys]

I've never killed an animal in my life. The meat industry is not going to stop if I stopped eating meat. Which I wont anyway, for various reasons.

This is the only thing I'm going to respond to:

You should do things based on whether or not they're right or wrong, not whether not all evil on earth will stop if you do them. The rape culture will continue going strong despite the fact that I don't rape women. That doesn't give me the right to continue doing it. Slavery is still going to drive the world's economy despite the fact that I don't buy shit made by unpaid labor. That doesn't mean that I should just give up.

So do whatever you want; you're right that what you eat won't make a huge difference in the long run. But I guarantee that what does make a big difference in the long run is whether or not people decide to do what's right even if they can't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Have a nice day, seriously.

 

[Sougo]

I love eating animals.

And I'm not sharing my food with anyone who thinks otherwise.

Now then, I'm hungry...

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

I had to look into this thread as I've been a vegan for 9 1/2 years (my god). The argument is bunk, and just like religion, food and morality is touchy as hell and it's not worth making enemies even by pleading your point. If someone is genuinely curious I'll indulge them aspects of my journey, but I'm not bringing it up un-requested.

It's not a diet, or a simple choice, it's an entire lifestyle that calls to you and you either feel it 100% or you're not going to do it. But no matter what, don't feel guilty about food. It's priority number one for all creatures on this planet and deeply personal to many cultures. I've been ridiculed, disowned, kicked out of restaurants, and suffered much trauma, but I CANNOT do it. I don't even see as steak as food, unless I'm on an island and death is near and I have to find something and kill it. Even in that situation, I'm thanking it for giving its life so that I may live, and I would certainly be upset about it.

My only exception to all this is a lack of understanding as to how some animals are awarded protections universally (with exceptions, like dogs in China), and others are "food animals" that can go through what they do to fill billions of plates (I'm not going to talk about that process, don't worry). Happiness comes from respecting others and not insisting that anyone deviate from their choices (unless they're a rapist or something, obviously). Everyone I talk to eats the animals just by odds and ratios alone, so I would be a fucking nutcase if I made it some kind of mission to make everyone I saw live the way I do.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Don't worry about it, OP. It's one of the most screwloose arguments ever.

I love dogs. I love taking care of other people's dogs, I loved my own dog to freaking bits. Yet, big shock, I eat steak every once in a while. There's no moral law that dictates I have no right to like dogs because I'm an eeeeevil steak-loving person.

We're apex predators, for starters. We're animals. Animals eat one another in nature, and animals have no concept of morality. All they have is instinct. Our instincts tell us to eat whatever the Hell it is we can in order to survive, so we do that. We're biologically capable of processing meat, so why shouldn't we eat it?

It's not like some noble lion is going to traipse out in front of the world's staunchest vegan, swathed in Godrays, and speak with Liam Neeson's voice to say thank you for sparing them.

 

[wolf thing]

that total rubish. but what bothers me is when people who eat meat call me a murderer because i killed a fox who was trying to kill my chickens, those people are bastards, at least with vegetarians it make sense given there choices.

 

[Woodsey]

I don't like animals and I eat meat. Sounds about right.

 

[Logan Cochrane]

That 'argument' is bad, and whoever makes it should feel bad.

We're animals, that eat meat.

It's part of our evolution, DEAL WIT IT!

Part of our Evolution? is that a joke?...Tell me if it is i'm terrible on picking up on this stuff


You can survive without meat there's no necessity for it. The human race wouldn't end if we all became allergic to the stuff. We're omnivores, and since we live in a society that allows you to choose what you want to eat and both meat and other types of food are always available whether you eat meat or not is optional.

The human race wouldn't end but many would certainly die of malnutrition. There are a number of nutrients that don't occur very often in nature. Growing them and/or synthesizing enough for the entirety of humanity would not be something done fast. Said deficiencies are taken care of in Vegetarians and Vegans by things like supplements, 'enriched' foods, and a small minority of plants. Sudden allergy to meat would cause widespread death.

 

[Logan Cochrane]

Also, what about the amount of insects and arachnids that are legally allowed in our food by the FDA? does that count against Vegetarians and Vegans?

 

[II2]

That statement doesn't hold up to me, who has cried at the loss of loved pets, but eats fish and poultry and less frequently bacon and beef.

I am generally FOND of animals, and had much warmer feelings still for those that I've come to know and/or care for. Same is generally true of people, too, I suppose.

--

But this kind of TOTAL STATEMENT isn't really meant to foster discussion, so much as rally and embolden the people already leaning towards the cause, to which effect it works. You can lament the stupidity of the people saying it, but I think on some level they get why they're wielding those words.

 

[Scarim Coral]

So? The correction would be, you can't love chicken if you eat chicken legs. To state "animal" is to state ALL of them and I know for sure that most people don't eat cat and dog!

 

[Eggsnham]

Plants are living things, I bet most vegans/vegetarians not only eat plants, they probably also live in houses made with wood and other natural plant based resources.

Not to mention that pretty much any vegetarian willing to argue about the ethics of eating meat ignores that the human body is designed to work best when consuming both plants and meat.

Plus, these people tend to ignore that a huge number of Earth's living beings eat meat exclusively, and would literally die if it were any other way.

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

I can't even word an argument as to how wrong this statement is... I mean, it's not just straight black and white here. I think cows are pretty cool, but I will eat them and their little baby cows in a heartbeat. Veal is too good to pass up, and regular steak is amazing. That being said, I'd do the same for chickens (I've even tried Balut, and that was kinda ok). However, I would never eat any house animals. You can't keep a cow as a pet instead of say, a dog or a cat. They just aren't like that. They're big, very very stupid, and extremely tasty.

 

[peruvianskys]

I absolutely loved my cat (loved, he unfortunately had to be put down because he was suffering from cat-leukemia, I was devastated, especially because I hadn't had the chance to say a proper good buy to him since I was at a boarding school at the time, although I'd probably have been equally devastated anyways but it did come as a hit in the gut when you're getting that kind of news through the phone).

I also like to eat a medium done steak.

This just goes to show that when you treat animals as individuals, as living beings, you can develop deep and meaningful relationships with them.

When you treat them like walking buffets that exist to get eaten, then you can't.

The fact is, every cow you've eaten is every bit as much of an individual capable of being loved as your cat was.

However, I would never eat any house animals. You can't keep a cow as a pet instead of say, a dog or a cat. They just aren't like that. They're big, very very stupid, and extremely tasty.

Cows are just as intelligent as dogs and cats. You are simply wrong to argue otherwise.

Plants are living things, I bet most vegans/vegetarians not only eat plants, they probably also live in houses made with wood and other natural plant based resources.

Plants are not capable of experiencing sentience. Pigs, cows, chickens, ducks, geese, and other animals are.

Not to mention that pretty much any vegetarian willing to argue about the ethics of eating meat ignores that the human body is designed to work best when consuming both plants and meat.

This argument is meaningless. The fact that our bodies are designed to consume meat just means that at one point in our evolution, it was advantagous to kill other things and eat them. Evolution is not a moral process; after all, evolution has also created us ready to rape and murder in order to survive. Are those things alright because we are evolutionarily inclined towards them?

Plus, these people tend to ignore that a huge number of Earth's living beings eat meat exclusively, and would literally die if it were any other way.

And you tend to ignore the fact that a huge number of Earth's human beings die of starvation because of the absurdly destructive and inefficient meat industry.

I am generally FOND of animals, and had much warmer feelings still for those that I've come to know and/or care for. Same is generally true of people, too, I suppose.

It is the same with people; if you pretend that they're the "other," who you don't need to care about, who exist to serve you, if you rob them of their existence as living creatures, then it's easy to sanction violence against them.

If you treat them like meaningful, worthwhile beings worthy of affection, then suddenly you don't want to tear their muscles off and eat their dead bodies.

 

[Sectan]

When EVERYONE in the world has enough to eat, then we can start arguing about what we should be eating. Pretty soon we'll have organizations telling starving nations that the food source they're going to get is poi-Oh wait...

 

[MrFalconfly]

I absolutely loved my cat (loved, he unfortunately had to be put down because he was suffering from cat-leukemia, I was devastated, especially because I hadn't had the chance to say a proper good buy to him since I was at a boarding school at the time, although I'd probably have been equally devastated anyways but it did come as a hit in the gut when you're getting that kind of news through the phone).

I also like to eat a medium done steak.

This just goes to show that when you treat animals as individuals, as living beings, you can develop deep and meaningful relationships with them.

When you treat them like walking buffets that exist to get eaten, then you can't.

The fact is, every cow you've eaten is every bit as much of an individual capable of being loved as your cat was.

Maybe.

I beg to differ simply because unlike the cat the cow is a group-oriented herbivore whereas the cat is a predator which is capable of formulating and coordinating a plan of attack.

The cat is inherently more intelligent because if it wasn't it wouldn't have survived as a predator while the cows defense lies in their size and their numbers.

Pigs are omnivores which would also require a relatively high intelligence.

In short animals with either carnivorous or omnivorous diets are likely more intelligent than herbivorous prey.

 

[90sgamer]

It is a poor argument to make namely because it uses a broad catch-all term. People are animals and I am positive just about every omnivore loves at least one other person.
The argument needs to be qualified. For example: It is impossible to love all chickens if you eat chicken. I might agree with such an argument. Sure, a chicken eater could love one chicken, a chicken they keep as a pet, while eating others. The argument above suggests that the chicken-eater does not love the chickens that it eats. It makes intuitive sense: love is a very strong emotional attachment. How could one eat a chicken they are in love with?

As for myself I love all animals... to be nicely prepared on my grill.