You don't have to be afraid of taking a public stance against #GamerGate.

[Verlander]

I'm just happy that many misogynists (and sometimes even racists) all over the internet are choosing to identify themselves with a Vivian James avatar, making it easy to spot and avoid conversation with them.

 

[Slayer4472]

I'm just happy that many misogynists (and sometimes even racists) all over the internet are choosing to identify themselves with a Vivian James avatar, making it easy to spot and avoid conversation with them.

I'm just glad that I joined the Escapist during GamerGate, so I know which users support elitists, racists, and hypocrites.

 

[Jux]

-snip-

At what point are you going to apologize for libeling me? Because despite your numerous opportunities to provide quotes where I have belittled minorities, or sources that journalists set their fans on people, or quotes that I defended such a thing, you have yet to do so.

 

[dragoongfa]

After some needed sleep I am back in business

Remember, this wasn't ideological, it wasn't censorship from the anti-gamergate side. Apparently, it was because they violated the rules pertaining to personal information and raids [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx0VQwBCUAE809U.png:large]. We should all recognise the right of a site's own owner to moderate it; almost every site has rules.

The problem is that the above reason was shoddy at best, I am not a regular channer, just popped in there whenever I was bored in order to bathe in the idiocy, since you know, 4chan.

However the posts about GamerGate in /v/ were 99,9% of the time either shitposting (4chan is 4chan) or honest discussion/outrage about GG stuff, the calls for raids and harassment were the fringe minority and were always shouted down and reported by the regular GG supporters. It was later emerged that the said calls for raid and harassment were always done by Goons from SomethingAwful who just wanted to troll everyone.

Yes Moot has the right to moderate his boards as he saw fit but he banned the discussion outright for things that 4channers denounced and reported anyway.

Then there is the fact that the banning started after Moot participated in the xoxoFest where AS and a lot of Anti-GG people were the primary speakers.

I couldn't find anything conclusive on this. Do you have any links? I found people who had been banned and claimed this was the reason, but that's far from compelling.

If true, it's a pretty shoddy way to run a discussion board, but it's still an example of a site moderating its own content; it's not really censorship.

I am going to have to disagree with you here, it is censorship because discussion of a topic is not against the rules of any public forum that respects itself. If certain posters break the forum rules they should be banned, no question about that but why is the entire discussion banned and why would the posters who voice Pro-GG opinion be banned from a Gaming forum?

Now I was never a part of NeoGAF but some of GG supporters at the Reddit and elsewhere have been posting screen grabs about their bans:

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2ij1g0/neogaf_user_criticizes_the_site_for_their/
http://i.imgur.com/9bybhJU.png

Then there are these little gems:

http://gamergate.giz.moe/2014/09/twitterneogaf-neogaf-deletes-fine-young-capitalists-account-time-gets-funding/
http://gamergate.giz.moe/2014/09/twitter-neogafs-worst-posts-quits-after-gamergate-pushes-neogafs-staff-off-the-edge/

I'm extremely glad Greg and the Escapist ignored that call, then. It's a legitimate discussion, and ignoring it won't make it go away.

We agree then that it was a call for censorship. Greg pretty much said this: He disagrees with the discussion but he will not put a stop to it just because of that. He later said that the discussion raised some good points and that it was within the forum rules and saw no reason to stop it.

Yet Ben Kuchera and co still tried to make him stop it.

The way I see it, it was a call for censorship.

A quick hunt for a Gamergate-related Cracked article [http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-ways-gamergate-debate-has-made-world-worse/] shows that comments disagreeing (vocally and even aggressively) with the article still stand.

That was not the first anti-GG article, Zoe Quinn wrote an article and when people tried to counter the argument there was a massive delete spree and defacing of posts at the cracked forum. Then the mods started publicly laughing at the people who complained about it on Facebook and elsewhere.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources?page=35
http://www.funnyjunk.com/Gamergate+mods+of+crackedcom/funny-pictures/5296583/

I addressed most of this stuff above. With regards to Thunderf00t, I can't find what tweet(s) he was actually banned for. If you know where I can, I'd appreciate a link.

I'd like to evaluate whether it was actually just legitimate criticism, or whether Twitter's stated grounds have any basis.

Thunderf00t wasn't banned for any legitimate reason as far as I know, there was a mass reporting of his account by a lot of people and Twitter took it down as a result. The funny thing is that he was working the days that it happened (nuclear engineering stuff) and when he returned was outraged.

His video response:

http://gamergate.giz.moe/2014/09/youtubetwitter-thunderf00t-suspended-from-twitter-sarkeesian-strike-back-gamergate/

Thunderf00t's videos and tweets were criticism of AS's Tropes vs Women videos, I am not sure if some of his language was inflammatory in his tweets (I am a Twitter noob and not a follower) but from what I have seen of him he tries to stay clear of stuff that would ban him.

Twitter later reinstated his account as well, meaning that the reports they received didn't have any basis.

 

[Jux]

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally abhorrent.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally abhorrent.

I took it to be directed at those harassing as well considering how large a problem this is in gaming. I would only feel that was directed at me if I were guilty of participating in it. I am not seeing gamergate spokepersons and supporters coming out agreeing that women and girls need to have more input in gaming, in fact I am overwhelmingly seeing the opposite happen. It is hard to separate the promoting of sexism against women in gaming when they are actively repeatedly promoting exactly that.

 

[Slayer4472]

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally abhorrent.

It's not meant to be an equivocation so much as a pointing out of similarity. In these two scenarios, I see two people (Alexander/ Macarthur) attacking me based on my identifying adjectives. It's not the same level on wrongness, but it is still a betrayal.

 

[Jux]

It's not meant to be an equivocation so much as a pointing out of similarity. In these two scenarios, I see two people (Alexander/ Macarthur) attacking me based on my identifying adjectives. It's not the same level on wrongness, but it is still a betrayal.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I feel that someone condemning someone for their sexuality, which for most people isn't a choice (I'll stop short of saying all simply because I've seen people claim they choose to be gay), something they have no control over, versus condemning people (though not to eternal damnation) on the perceived attitude of toxic behavior, which as far as I can tell is always a choice, is apples and oranges.

Now, I just got home, and it's almost 5 am, so I'll be going to bed. Have a good one.

 

[Bat Vader]

I think it should also be stated that people shouldn't be afraid to remain neutral or uncaring and apathetic towards it either. I fall into the latter category. I give it another couple of months before all of this is just swept away.

 

[Slayer4472]

It's not meant to be an equivocation so much as a pointing out of similarity. In these two scenarios, I see two people (Alexander/ Macarthur) attacking me based on my identifying adjectives. It's not the same level on wrongness, but it is still a betrayal.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I feel that someone condemning someone for their sexuality, which for most people isn't a choice (I'll stop short of saying all simply because I've seen people claim they choose to be gay), something they have no control over, versus condemning people (though not to eternal damnation) on the perceived attitude of toxic behavior, which as far as I can tell is always a choice, is apples and oranges.

Now, I just got home, and it's almost 5 am, so I'll be going to bed. Have a good one.

Hey, you too. It's always good to engage with those you disagree with =)

Spoiler

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally oi.

I took it to be directed at those harassing as well considering how large a problem this is in gaming. I would only feel that was directed at me if I were guilty of participating in it. I am not seeing gamergate spokepersons and supporters coming out agreeing that women and girls need to have more input in gaming, in fact I am overwhelmingly seeing the opposite happen. It is hard to separate the promoting of sexism against women in gaming when they are actively repeatedly promoting exactly that.

Well, let me be the first:

I believe that ALL adjectives should have an equally important voice, whether it be men/women, straight/gay, white/black/asian/latin, etc. I believe that is the majority view in GamerGate, as most of us are liberals.

That being said, I do feel that the "Gamers Are Dead" articles were aimed at me, and I am angry about it.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I think it should also be stated that people shouldn't be afraid to be remain neutral or uncaring and apathetic towards it either. I fall into the latter category. I give it another couple of months before all of this is just swept away.

I do hope so, however, I am afraid it will fizzle out after a long drawn out death.. There will be the same couple of people trying to keep it going on and on.. until finally they get ignored long enough and go away entertained by their next big ado.

 

[Bat Vader]

I think it should also be stated that people shouldn't be afraid to be remain neutral or uncaring and apathetic towards it either. I fall into the latter category. I give it another couple of months before all of this is just swept away.

I do hope so, however, I am afraid it will fizzle out after a long drawn out death.. There will be the same couple of people trying to keep it going on and on.. until finally they get ignored long enough and go away entertained by their next big ado.

Most likely but that is how most big things like this tend to die. It's basically like the ME 3 ending. People will scream and shout, get bored, and then go home.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

It's not meant to be an equivocation so much as a pointing out of similarity. In these two scenarios, I see two people (Alexander/ Macarthur) attacking me based on my identifying adjectives. It's not the same level on wrongness, but it is still a betrayal.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I feel that someone condemning someone for their sexuality, which for most people isn't a choice (I'll stop short of saying all simply because I've seen people claim they choose to be gay), something they have no control over, versus condemning people (though not to eternal damnation) on the perceived attitude of toxic behavior, which as far as I can tell is always a choice, is apples and oranges.

Now, I just got home, and it's almost 5 am, so I'll be going to bed. Have a good one.

Hey, you too. It's always good to engage with those you disagree with =)

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally abhorrent.

I took it to be directed at those harassing as well considering how large a problem this is in gaming. I would only feel that was directed at me if I were guilty of participating in it. I am not seeing gamergate spokepersons and supporters coming out agreeing that women and girls need to have more input in gaming, in fact I am overwhelmingly seeing the opposite happen. It is hard to separate the promoting of sexism against women in gaming when they are actively repeatedly promoting exactly that.

Well, let me be the first:

I believe that ALL adjectives should have an equally important voice, whether it be men/women, straight/gay, white/black/asian/latin, etc. I believe that is the majority view in GamerGae, as most of us are liberals.

That being said, I do feel that the "Gamers Are DEad" articles were aimed at me, and I am angry about it.

I wish that were the majority opinion of gamergaters, but I am afraid it is not, due to how I and others have been treated when trying to have a discussion about it. It has been made overwhelmingly clear to me, as a female hardcore gamer that I should not have a voice in the games I play or the community because I am not their " target demographic" and should be excluded from the discussion.

My opinion of the "gamers are dead" nonsense is if they didn't want to promote leigh, they would have ignored it and moved on, instead they made her famous over it. Every time someone brings it up they are helping her. Getting any response positive or negative for a no name journalist is exactly what they need to succeed. By letting it make you angry, by starting gamergate over it, you are ensuring her success. No one knew her before but you guys made her a " buzz word" and everyone from tabloids to shock news sites will be scrambling to pay her more to write for them. By letting her make you angry, you let her get what she wanted is how I see it.

 

[Jake Martinez]

I think it should also be stated that people shouldn't be afraid to be remain neutral or uncaring and apathetic towards it either. I fall into the latter category. I give it another couple of months before all of this is just swept away.

I do hope so, however, I am afraid it will fizzle out after a long drawn out death.. There will be the same couple of people trying to keep it going on and on.. until finally they get ignored long enough and go away entertained by their next big ado.

Most likely but that is how most big things like this tend to die. It's basically like the ME 3 ending. People will scream and shout, get bored, and then go home.

I think you are seriously underestimating the collective power of our autism

 

[Slayer4472]

It's not meant to be an equivocation so much as a pointing out of similarity. In these two scenarios, I see two people (Alexander/ Macarthur) attacking me based on my identifying adjectives. It's not the same level on wrongness, but it is still a betrayal.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I feel that someone condemning someone for their sexuality, which for most people isn't a choice (I'll stop short of saying all simply because I've seen people claim they choose to be gay), something they have no control over, versus condemning people (though not to eternal damnation) on the perceived attitude of toxic behavior, which as far as I can tell is always a choice, is apples and oranges.

Now, I just got home, and it's almost 5 am, so I'll be going to bed. Have a good one.

Hey, you too. It's always good to engage with those you disagree with =)

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally abhorrent.

I took it to be directed at those harassing as well considering how large a problem this is in gaming. I would only feel that was directed at me if I were guilty of participating in it. I am not seeing gamergate spokepersons and supporters coming out agreeing that women and girls need to have more input in gaming, in fact I am overwhelmingly seeing the opposite happen. It is hard to separate the promoting of sexism against women in gaming when they are actively repeatedly promoting exactly that.

Well, let me be the first:

I believe that ALL adjectives should have an equally important voice, whether it be men/women, straight/gay, white/black/asian/latin, etc. I believe that is the majority view in GamerGae, as most of us are liberals.

That being said, I do feel that the "Gamers Are DEad" articles were aimed at me, and I am angry about it.

I wish that were the majority opinion of gamergaters, but I am afraid it is not, due to how I and others have been treated when trying to have a discussion about it. It has been made overwhelmingly clear to me, as a female hardcore gamer that I should not have a voice in the games I play or the community because I am not their " target demographic" and should be excluded from the discussion.

My opinion of the "gamers are dead" nonsense is if they didn't want to promote leigh, they would have ignored it and moved on, instead they made her famous over it. Every time someone brings it up they are helping her. Getting any response positive or negative for a no name journalist is exactly what they need to succeed. By letting it make you angry, by starting gamergate over it, you are ensuring her success. No one knew her before but you guys made her a " buzz word" and everyone from tabloids to shock news sites will be scrambling to pay her more to write for them. By letting her make you angry, you let her get what she wanted is how I see it.

I apologize, but I must dissent. I've been very active on the GG thread here and on /gg/ at 8chan. I can say with certainty that the vast majority of GamerGate supports gender equality as a concept, and the vocal presence of women in the community. Twatter is terrible for communication; if you want to talk to us, you should make a post on the GG thread here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources?page=643#21495210

Regarding Leigh Alexander- she's a major journalist who's work has apparently been widely read by prominent industry voices (Ohai, Jim Sterling). When this is over, she'll be known as a racist who destroyed her career and her website; if any websites snatch her up, then I'll throw a pig off of the Empire State Building, since it'll be able to fly.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

It's not meant to be an equivocation so much as a pointing out of similarity. In these two scenarios, I see two people (Alexander/ Macarthur) attacking me based on my identifying adjectives. It's not the same level on wrongness, but it is still a betrayal.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I feel that someone condemning someone for their sexuality, which for most people isn't a choice (I'll stop short of saying all simply because I've seen people claim they choose to be gay), something they have no control over, versus condemning people (though not to eternal damnation) on the perceived attitude of toxic behavior, which as far as I can tell is always a choice, is apples and oranges.

Now, I just got home, and it's almost 5 am, so I'll be going to bed. Have a good one.

Hey, you too. It's always good to engage with those you disagree with =)

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally abhorrent.

I took it to be directed at those harassing as well considering how large a problem this is in gaming. I would only feel that was directed at me if I were guilty of participating in it. I am not seeing gamergate spokepersons and supporters coming out agreeing that women and girls need to have more input in gaming, in fact I am overwhelmingly seeing the opposite happen. It is hard to separate the promoting of sexism against women in gaming when they are actively repeatedly promoting exactly that.

Well, let me be the first:

I believe that ALL adjectives should have an equally important voice, whether it be men/women, straight/gay, white/black/asian/latin, etc. I believe that is the majority view in GamerGae, as most of us are liberals.

That being said, I do feel that the "Gamers Are DEad" articles were aimed at me, and I am angry about it.

I wish that were the majority opinion of gamergaters, but I am afraid it is not, due to how I and others have been treated when trying to have a discussion about it. It has been made overwhelmingly clear to me, as a female hardcore gamer that I should not have a voice in the games I play or the community because I am not their " target demographic" and should be excluded from the discussion.

My opinion of the "gamers are dead" nonsense is if they didn't want to promote leigh, they would have ignored it and moved on, instead they made her famous over it. Every time someone brings it up they are helping her. Getting any response positive or negative for a no name journalist is exactly what they need to succeed. By letting it make you angry, by starting gamergate over it, you are ensuring her success. No one knew her before but you guys made her a " buzz word" and everyone from tabloids to shock news sites will be scrambling to pay her more to write for them. By letting her make you angry, you let her get what she wanted is how I see it.

I apologize, but I must dissent. I've been very active on the GG thread here and on /gg/ at 8chan. I can say with certainty that the vast majority of GamerGate supports gender equality as a concept, and the vocal presence of women in the community. Twatter is terrible for communication; if you want to talk to us, you should make a post on the GG thread here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources?page=643#21495210

Regarding Leigh Alexander- she's a major journalist who's work has apparently been widely read by prominent industry voices (Ohai, Jim Sterling). When this is over, she'll be known as a racist who destroyed her career and her website; if any websites snatch her up, then I'll throw a pig off of the Empire State Building, since it'll be able to fly.

I have NOT been active, I bailed after the first week due to the overwhelming response on 4chan and here ( before it was banned from 4 chan). I see what happens after that as insignificant honestly. This is what it was about from the beginning, and what it was about from those bringing it to us, so it is what it is regardless of those that jump on the bandwagon later think it is. I saw the ZOE BS before it blew up, I saw this from the get go, and it was blatantly obvious from the go what this was about. People cannot just walk into the room half way through a conversation and claim the direction of the conversation is what they like to think it is. That is what I have seen happen here.

I have nothing to say at this point to the GG mob now because it is pointless, and no, I do not use or read twitter. I already attempted to discuss that when this started, and heard plenty from those who got the ball rolling in the first place. " shes a major journalist." that the majority of gamers did not know or give two shits about before gamer gate. You seriously believe that will happen?? I'm sorry, but even journalists who have actually written articles promoting the death of infants and forced sterilization still find work. No such thing will happen, and if you actually think that will happen, you will be sadly disappointed. No, Leigh will still write, will probably get paid more for doing so, many people will read her articles and life goes on because that is the reality of the world we live in. If you expect her journalist career to be doomed because a mob wants to harass her, that is not facing the reality of how these things work.

 

[Slayer4472]

It's not meant to be an equivocation so much as a pointing out of similarity. In these two scenarios, I see two people (Alexander/ Macarthur) attacking me based on my identifying adjectives. It's not the same level on wrongness, but it is still a betrayal.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I feel that someone condemning someone for their sexuality, which for most people isn't a choice (I'll stop short of saying all simply because I've seen people claim they choose to be gay), something they have no control over, versus condemning people (though not to eternal damnation) on the perceived attitude of toxic behavior, which as far as I can tell is always a choice, is apples and oranges.

Now, I just got home, and it's almost 5 am, so I'll be going to bed. Have a good one.

Hey, you too. It's always good to engage with those you disagree with =)

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally abhorrent.

I took it to be directed at those harassing as well considering how large a problem this is in gaming. I would only feel that was directed at me if I were guilty of participating in it. I am not seeing gamergate spokepersons and supporters coming out agreeing that women and girls need to have more input in gaming, in fact I am overwhelmingly seeing the opposite happen. It is hard to separate the promoting of sexism against women in gaming when they are actively repeatedly promoting exactly that.

Well, let me be the first:

I believe that ALL adjectives should have an equally important voice, whether it be men/women, straight/gay, white/black/asian/latin, etc. I believe that is the majority view in GamerGae, as most of us are liberals.

That being said, I do feel that the "Gamers Are DEad" articles were aimed at me, and I am angry about it.

I wish that were the majority opinion of gamergaters, but I am afraid it is not, due to how I and others have been treated when trying to have a discussion about it. It has been made overwhelmingly clear to me, as a female hardcore gamer that I should not have a voice in the games I play or the community because I am not their " target demographic" and should be excluded from the discussion.

My opinion of the "gamers are dead" nonsense is if they didn't want to promote leigh, they would have ignored it and moved on, instead they made her famous over it. Every time someone brings it up they are helping her. Getting any response positive or negative for a no name journalist is exactly what they need to succeed. By letting it make you angry, by starting gamergate over it, you are ensuring her success. No one knew her before but you guys made her a " buzz word" and everyone from tabloids to shock news sites will be scrambling to pay her more to write for them. By letting her make you angry, you let her get what she wanted is how I see it.

I apologize, but I must dissent. I've been very active on the GG thread here and on /gg/ at 8chan. I can say with certainty that the vast majority of GamerGate supports gender equality as a concept, and the vocal presence of women in the community. Twatter is terrible for communication; if you want to talk to us, you should make a post on the GG thread here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources?page=643#21495210

Regarding Leigh Alexander- she's a major journalist who's work has apparently been widely read by prominent industry voices (Ohai, Jim Sterling). When this is over, she'll be known as a racist who destroyed her career and her website; if any websites snatch her up, then I'll throw a pig off of the Empire State Building, since it'll be able to fly.

I have NOT been active, I bailed after the first week due to the overwhelming response on 4chan and here ( before it was banned from 4 chan). I see what happens after that as insignificant honestly. This is what it was about from the beginning, and what it was about from those bring it to us, so it is what it is regardless of those that jump on the bandwagon later think it is. I saw the ZOE BS before it blew up, I saw this from the get go, and it was blatantly obvious from the go what this was about. People cannot just walk into the room half way through a conversation and claim the direction of the conversation is what they like to think it is. That is what I have seen happen here.

I have nothing to say at this point to the GG mob, and no, I do not use or read twitter. I already did that when this started, and heard plenty from those who got the ball rolling in the first place. " shes a major journalist." that the majority of gamers did not know or give two shits about before gamer gate. You seriously believe that will happen?? I'm sorry, but even journalists who have actually written articles promoting the death of infants and forced sterilization still find work. No such thing will happen, and if you actually think that will happen, you will be sadly disappointed. No, Leigh will still write, will probably get paid more for doing so, many people will read her articles and life goes on because that is the reality of the world we live in. If you expect her journalist career to be doomed because a mob wants to harass her, that is not facing the reality of how these things work.

Oh... Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Have a pleasant day =(

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

It's not meant to be an equivocation so much as a pointing out of similarity. In these two scenarios, I see two people (Alexander/ Macarthur) attacking me based on my identifying adjectives. It's not the same level on wrongness, but it is still a betrayal.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I feel that someone condemning someone for their sexuality, which for most people isn't a choice (I'll stop short of saying all simply because I've seen people claim they choose to be gay), something they have no control over, versus condemning people (though not to eternal damnation) on the perceived attitude of toxic behavior, which as far as I can tell is always a choice, is apples and oranges.

Now, I just got home, and it's almost 5 am, so I'll be going to bed. Have a good one.

Hey, you too. It's always good to engage with those you disagree with =)

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally abhorrent.

I took it to be directed at those harassing as well considering how large a problem this is in gaming. I would only feel that was directed at me if I were guilty of participating in it. I am not seeing gamergate spokepersons and supporters coming out agreeing that women and girls need to have more input in gaming, in fact I am overwhelmingly seeing the opposite happen. It is hard to separate the promoting of sexism against women in gaming when they are actively repeatedly promoting exactly that.

Well, let me be the first:

I believe that ALL adjectives should have an equally important voice, whether it be men/women, straight/gay, white/black/asian/latin, etc. I believe that is the majority view in GamerGae, as most of us are liberals.

That being said, I do feel that the "Gamers Are DEad" articles were aimed at me, and I am angry about it.

I wish that were the majority opinion of gamergaters, but I am afraid it is not, due to how I and others have been treated when trying to have a discussion about it. It has been made overwhelmingly clear to me, as a female hardcore gamer that I should not have a voice in the games I play or the community because I am not their " target demographic" and should be excluded from the discussion.

My opinion of the "gamers are dead" nonsense is if they didn't want to promote leigh, they would have ignored it and moved on, instead they made her famous over it. Every time someone brings it up they are helping her. Getting any response positive or negative for a no name journalist is exactly what they need to succeed. By letting it make you angry, by starting gamergate over it, you are ensuring her success. No one knew her before but you guys made her a " buzz word" and everyone from tabloids to shock news sites will be scrambling to pay her more to write for them. By letting her make you angry, you let her get what she wanted is how I see it.

I apologize, but I must dissent. I've been very active on the GG thread here and on /gg/ at 8chan. I can say with certainty that the vast majority of GamerGate supports gender equality as a concept, and the vocal presence of women in the community. Twatter is terrible for communication; if you want to talk to us, you should make a post on the GG thread here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources?page=643#21495210

Regarding Leigh Alexander- she's a major journalist who's work has apparently been widely read by prominent industry voices (Ohai, Jim Sterling). When this is over, she'll be known as a racist who destroyed her career and her website; if any websites snatch her up, then I'll throw a pig off of the Empire State Building, since it'll be able to fly.

I have NOT been active, I bailed after the first week due to the overwhelming response on 4chan and here ( before it was banned from 4 chan). I see what happens after that as insignificant honestly. This is what it was about from the beginning, and what it was about from those bring it to us, so it is what it is regardless of those that jump on the bandwagon later think it is. I saw the ZOE BS before it blew up, I saw this from the get go, and it was blatantly obvious from the go what this was about. People cannot just walk into the room half way through a conversation and claim the direction of the conversation is what they like to think it is. That is what I have seen happen here.

I have nothing to say at this point to the GG mob, and no, I do not use or read twitter. I already did that when this started, and heard plenty from those who got the ball rolling in the first place. " shes a major journalist." that the majority of gamers did not know or give two shits about before gamer gate. You seriously believe that will happen?? I'm sorry, but even journalists who have actually written articles promoting the death of infants and forced sterilization still find work. No such thing will happen, and if you actually think that will happen, you will be sadly disappointed. No, Leigh will still write, will probably get paid more for doing so, many people will read her articles and life goes on because that is the reality of the world we live in. If you expect her journalist career to be doomed because a mob wants to harass her, that is not facing the reality of how these things work.

Oh... Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Have a pleasant day =(

"The gamergate mob" as in the massive gamer gate thread where they are not even talking about gamer gate to keep it bumped, which unknowing to most of those posting in it is against this sites off topic policies and they can be warned/banned for doing so, but I feel the only reason they are not doing so on that thread is because they do not want to feed the mob more than it has already been fed. Having a thread that long and off topic is ignorant and pointless to participate in.

 

[Colour Scientist]

I've taken issue with some things that GamerGate people have said and it hasn't worked out well for me.

To be honest, the more I engage with people involved in GamerGate the less I respect them.

Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone but when you post something, have ten people jump on you and then accuse you of trying to bait people and stir shit when you try to defend yourself, it gets tiresome.

I've had abusive PMs, been called a troll, accused of calling people sexists and misogynists when I did no such thing, been called stupid, had people tell others to ignore me, been told to go away, been accused of being ignorant or misinformed. Basically, I've been accused of everything except of having a legitimate grievance with a statement made by someone from GamerGate.

I should have just started making inflammatory statements because at least then some of the reaction would have been justified. XD

 

[Slayer4472]

It's not meant to be an equivocation so much as a pointing out of similarity. In these two scenarios, I see two people (Alexander/ Macarthur) attacking me based on my identifying adjectives. It's not the same level on wrongness, but it is still a betrayal.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I feel that someone condemning someone for their sexuality, which for most people isn't a choice (I'll stop short of saying all simply because I've seen people claim they choose to be gay), something they have no control over, versus condemning people (though not to eternal damnation) on the perceived attitude of toxic behavior, which as far as I can tell is always a choice, is apples and oranges.

Now, I just got home, and it's almost 5 am, so I'll be going to bed. Have a good one.

Hey, you too. It's always good to engage with those you disagree with =)

The use of the adjective Gamer, in all honesty. If Leigh Alexander had said "harassers need to fuck off" then I'd have gone about my day. But she described me as a "obtuse shitslinger" and a "wailing hyperconsumer", and I don't particularly appreciate that.

I personally understood it to refer to a particular subset of gamers, but if you don't see the distinction, then there's nothing more I can really say on the subject other than we interpret that very differently.

Speaking as someone who has to deal with shit like this:

http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A170/Gods-Plan-for-the-Gay-Agenda

I don't want my... well, I don't like the term 'safe space'... my area of equality and meritocracy to be invaded by nutters.

I'm not quite sure going on a tirade against what one perceives to be toxic gamers (imo a subset, in you opinion the whole) is comparable to the condemnation homosexuality, the latter of which I find unequivocally abhorrent.

I took it to be directed at those harassing as well considering how large a problem this is in gaming. I would only feel that was directed at me if I were guilty of participating in it. I am not seeing gamergate spokepersons and supporters coming out agreeing that women and girls need to have more input in gaming, in fact I am overwhelmingly seeing the opposite happen. It is hard to separate the promoting of sexism against women in gaming when they are actively repeatedly promoting exactly that.

Well, let me be the first:

I believe that ALL adjectives should have an equally important voice, whether it be men/women, straight/gay, white/black/asian/latin, etc. I believe that is the majority view in GamerGae, as most of us are liberals.

That being said, I do feel that the "Gamers Are DEad" articles were aimed at me, and I am angry about it.

I wish that were the majority opinion of gamergaters, but I am afraid it is not, due to how I and others have been treated when trying to have a discussion about it. It has been made overwhelmingly clear to me, as a female hardcore gamer that I should not have a voice in the games I play or the community because I am not their " target demographic" and should be excluded from the discussion.

My opinion of the "gamers are dead" nonsense is if they didn't want to promote leigh, they would have ignored it and moved on, instead they made her famous over it. Every time someone brings it up they are helping her. Getting any response positive or negative for a no name journalist is exactly what they need to succeed. By letting it make you angry, by starting gamergate over it, you are ensuring her success. No one knew her before but you guys made her a " buzz word" and everyone from tabloids to shock news sites will be scrambling to pay her more to write for them. By letting her make you angry, you let her get what she wanted is how I see it.

I apologize, but I must dissent. I've been very active on the GG thread here and on /gg/ at 8chan. I can say with certainty that the vast majority of GamerGate supports gender equality as a concept, and the vocal presence of women in the community. Twatter is terrible for communication; if you want to talk to us, you should make a post on the GG thread here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources?page=643#21495210

Regarding Leigh Alexander- she's a major journalist who's work has apparently been widely read by prominent industry voices (Ohai, Jim Sterling). When this is over, she'll be known as a racist who destroyed her career and her website; if any websites snatch her up, then I'll throw a pig off of the Empire State Building, since it'll be able to fly.

I have NOT been active, I bailed after the first week due to the overwhelming response on 4chan and here ( before it was banned from 4 chan). I see what happens after that as insignificant honestly. This is what it was about from the beginning, and what it was about from those bring it to us, so it is what it is regardless of those that jump on the bandwagon later think it is. I saw the ZOE BS before it blew up, I saw this from the get go, and it was blatantly obvious from the go what this was about. People cannot just walk into the room half way through a conversation and claim the direction of the conversation is what they like to think it is. That is what I have seen happen here.

I have nothing to say at this point to the GG mob, and no, I do not use or read twitter. I already did that when this started, and heard plenty from those who got the ball rolling in the first place. " shes a major journalist." that the majority of gamers did not know or give two shits about before gamer gate. You seriously believe that will happen?? I'm sorry, but even journalists who have actually written articles promoting the death of infants and forced sterilization still find work. No such thing will happen, and if you actually think that will happen, you will be sadly disappointed. No, Leigh will still write, will probably get paid more for doing so, many people will read her articles and life goes on because that is the reality of the world we live in. If you expect her journalist career to be doomed because a mob wants to harass her, that is not facing the reality of how these things work.

Oh... Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Have a pleasant day =(

"The gamergate mob" as in the massive gamer gate thread where they are not even talking about gamer gate to keep it bumped, which unknowing to most of those posting in it is against this sites off topic policies and they can be warned/banned for doing so, but I feel the only reason they are not doing so on that thread is because they do not want to feed the mob more than it has already been fed. Having a thread that long and off topic is ignorant and pointless to participate in.

*Raised eyebrows*

That's.... not true. What are we talking about right now:

- The reactions on Twitter to the newest Dev articles
- Conspiracy Hypothesi
- Shills, trolls, and idiots on 8chan
- Allegations that a Brazilian click-baiter was responsible for some of Sarkeesian's harassment

All of those are, to my knowledge, on topic. We aren't inflating numbers, we're having a conversation.