You don't have to be afraid of taking a public stance against #GamerGate.

[Carrington666]

snip

To be honest, I believe we are talking about different things. Harrassment happens against both sides and it is great that you condem it when it happens and I'd like the media to report on harrassment when it happens to people on the GG side.

But this is not the behavior I mean, when I talk about behaviors that hurt GamerGates reputation.
I mean the condescending attitude of "if you don't agree with us, then you haven't done your research" that seems to be behind a large number of arguments. And yes, even if I haven't done the research myself, when somebody says "because of x,y,z I belive w" and the response the person recieves is "ah, but if you had done your research, you knew the answer is l", it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't deny that the answer could actually be "l", but it looks like the replier dismisses everything the first person said, because they formed a different opinion.
This also strengthens the impressions that many GG supporter have a "if you're not with us, then you are against us" attitude. Which I also don't find very appealing. I'm not saying that every or even most GG supporter acts that way, but enough people do it so I'd feel like I'm supporting this attitude if I argue pro-GG.

I have to apologize, when you posted those quotes, I thought you wanted to show that the media uses lies, misrepresantions etc. as well, not show me where they lied.
And you are right, these kind of defaming blanket statements are wrong and should be called out as such. But those kind of "big" lies are relatively easy to spot, its the "small" lies that harm the legitimacy of the GG when they are found out. And with "lies" I mean outright lies (claiming someone did/said something when it didn't happen), cherry picking and quoting out of context, deliberatley misunderstanding and misquoting someone.
We had it here, when a "could" became a "must", we had it with that developer who wondered what the big deal was, when nobody had a problem when a friend of his reviewed content he himself worked on, and it became "developer boasts about using his friendship to get better scores".
These are the things that I believe damage GG reputation for those that are interested in the topic and would normally support you in your stated goals.
When you can't trust the media to talk about its own corruption, because the only time they talk about it is to defame those demaning investigations and you can't trust those arguing for improved journalistic ethics, because they have shown themself to use lies to strengthen their position, what are you supposed to do?

 

[KokujinTensai]

Gamergate is a fucking unorganized joke, that just throws around accusations and is bizarrely defensive about how important it is and how much it's apparently needed and deserves to exist. It's a bunch of super entitled whiners who just want to have a group to huddle to whenever something isn't going their way. They seemingly have no idea how journalism or women even function on a basic level. The whole thing is goddamn ridiculous.

The Internal Revenue Service is a huge scam used to steal American's money and use it to fund the governments drones which will indoctrinate all citizens to used the correct forms for their taxes.


See I can spit baseless nonsense as well.

 

[omega 616]

I'm kind of embarrassed by this whole thing, on two different levels. One, I consider myself really into gaming news and I base a lot of my life around games, but I have no idea which side of the gamer gate (which by the way is annoying trend to call any controversy ".... gate") is the one being a bunch of overly aggressive people doxing and threatening people.

The other level is, a certain section of the gaming community is being so defensive about games that they are constantly bombarding people with an ungodly amount of abuse and threats.

If you think games should carry being the same, which I don't know why you would but that is your prerogative to do so, then fine but how can you be ok with that level of abuse about games.

Like I said, I base a large part of my life around games (if I am not working, I am doing something to do with games) but they are just a hobby! Can you imagine train spotters threatening each to throw each other in front of trains? Model train enthusiasts calling in bomb threats? Stamp collectors getting people to leave their homes?

Honestly, I can't understand how you don't want more range in your games. To me, it's saying "McDonald's should do more than a big mac" and then people being so angry about that, that they dox me and threaten my life! It's such a major over reaction, like North Korea saying "we have a small nuke!" and America launches it's whole nuclear arsenal at North Korea ... the last transmission received would be "I said we had one, not that we are going to launch it!"

 

[redlemon]

But this is not the behavior... snip

From what I see, most of the time, pro-GG will try to give the person the facts first, unless maybe if the person is blatantly being condescending. But I agree that there's many of us who need to keep our heads cool about this. This is a problem many groups and organizations face, and I'm not sure what can be done about it other than repeatedly encouraging people to stay calm and not say anything stupid.

I have to apologize... snip

The way I see it, the biggest lies have been the ones hurting us the most. The media portrays us as a misogynist hate group. A sexist KKK. This lie has been repeated over and over again by our opposition. The "small" lies are hardly relevant because most anti-GG aren't even willing to discuss anything with pro-GG. Cracked, neogaf, 4chan, and all of the websites we're currently boycotting currently censor all discussion. Wikipedia's currently trying to silence us, and a rogue mod from Github tried to as well. Oh and there's evidence that the mod also tried to doxx us. I don't think you can apply your personal experience to the collective, considering that you haven't read the anti-gg articles while a large part of our opposition gets their information from them.

We had it here, when a "could" became a "must", we had it with that developer who wondered what the big deal was, when nobody had a problem when a friend of his reviewed content he himself worked on, and it became "developer boasts about using his friendship to get better scores".
These are the things that I believe damage GG reputation for those that are interested in the topic and would normally support you in your stated goals.

Oh there were plenty of problems in the past. It's just that this time, they completely screwed up damage control by releasing those "Gamers are dead" articles and shifting all accusations of corruption into misogyny.

Personal opinion: I believe most of those people you're talking about, the ones who would support GG but don't for whatever reason, are severely underestimating the severity of the problem. These people are the media. And they're telling blatant lies to their audience. Ignore all of the other corruption for a moment and think only of that fact alone and ask yourself whether you believe these people are still qualified to be journalists. And realize that these people are actually taken seriously unlike Fox News. Did you see the recent mainstream news source smearing us, saying we're too extreme for 4chan? They use these journalists as their source.

When you can't trust the media to talk about its own corruption, because the only time they talk about it is to defame those demaning investigations and you can't trust those arguing for improved journalistic ethics, because they have shown themself to use lies to strengthen their position, what are you supposed to do?

Boycotting, and trying our best to be polite and maintain our image seems to be the only things we can do. And it's working, at least for now. Of course, when the media is your enemy, you're going to have to accept the fact that your image is going to get crapped on no matter what you do.

 

[Uriel_Hayabusa]

I'm kind of embarrassed by this whole thing, on two different levels. One, I consider myself really into gaming news and I base a lot of my life around games, but I have no idea which side of the gamer gate (which by the way is annoying trend to call any controversy ".... gate") is the one being a bunch of overly aggressive people doxing and threatening people.

The other level is, a certain section of the gaming community is being so defensive about games that they are constantly bombarding people with an ungodly amount of abuse and threats.

Reminder: this has happened before. There once was a man named Jack Thompson who had objections with gaming, and he was threatened and harassed to. The big difference is that back then the games media did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to call it out.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/teen-charged-with-harassing-antigame-activist/1100-6141010/

This is a rare article that reports on it, and it's in a manner-of-fact way that still (implicitly) tries to make Thompson look like the jerk.

And that's not even getting into some of the comments:

----------------
''I PROBABLY would have done the same thing''

''Someone please shut Thompson up. The gamers of the world will keep fighting him until he does''

''That kid is ownage''

''This is obviously a set up.''

''I think that this was a stunt by jack to make us look bad.''

''sucks he didnt get to go through with the "torture"

''I've got my own little death threat for the guy right here... too bad I'd be arrested myself if I said it. Lets just say peanut butter does not mix well with your bloodstream.''

''Someone please for the love of god make a GTA mod or something where we can kill Mr. Thompson.''

''Jack Thompson should be tried for treason and if convicted, executed.''

''He records it and then sends out a press release. This is something Thompson was prepared and waiting for.''

''This nimrod has a history of fabricating things in order to make himself more sympathetic.''

''If ony the kid hadn't been arrested and had carried out the deed.''
----------------

Additional threats, endorsement of the existing threats, victim-blaming, claims that Thompson ''faked'' it.

Wow

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Caostotale]

The Internal Revenue Service is a huge scam used to steal American's money and use it to fund the governments drones which will indoctrinate all citizens to used the correct forms for their taxes.

Holy shit, dude. Can we actually talk about American taxation and the growth of the military surveillance state? I mean, those are things that might just actually affect some of our lives at some point, unlike this Gamergate bullshit which, at best, is only managing to rattle the floor underneath a number of low-level indie developers and low-level gaming writers, all the while pretending that it's fomenting a monstrous earthquake that will eventually swallow up the entire medium and purify it of the bog-standard capitalist corruption that affects every single aspect of our lives from entertainment to healthcare...I mean, of course, after it purges gaming of all forms of left-leaning progressivism (i.e. 'this rapid dog has been biting my arm for years so I'd better redouble my efforts to squash that flea that's biting the dog's ass!').

OT: Fuck 'taking a stance' against Gamergate. Rather, I'll be taking a seat...in front of my television, where I'll be playing my games and temporarily forgetting about all these clowns who care more about fatuous internet drama than gaming or anything more important than the internet drama itself. As I've said before, pre-GG gaming must really have been disappointing or empty to all of those who've decided to invest this much energy into fantastical silliness of this sort. As well, I have trouble believing that those feelings of disappointment and malaise had anything to do with journalistic corruption or overwhelming amounts of leftism skewing the games' contents.

 

[Nirallus]

The other level is, a certain section of the gaming community is being so defensive about games that they are constantly bombarding people with an ungodly amount of abuse and threats.

It's a small number of trolls, who are anonymous and as such we have no idea what their motivations are. Case in point, one of the people sending death threats was a Brazilian clickbait journalist who needed material with which to bait clicks.

Honestly, I can't understand how you don't want more range in your games. To me, it's saying "McDonald's should do more than a big mac" and then people being so angry about that, that they dox me and threaten my life!

Again, harassment and dox'ing happen to all sides. The perpetrators and their motivations are unknown: Some are dumb kids, a few may be genuine haters, some may be false flags, and some might just be GNAA / GoonWaffe types who stir up shit in all directions just for the sheer hell of it.

And the people GG is primarily opposed to, the so-called "Social Justice Warriors" (for justice in name only) are not for more range in games, or society in general. They want to narrow the range of games to only those they don't find "problematic". To use the McDonald's analogy, it's like saying you can't have a Big Mac because its name and privileged position in the menu reinforce hegemonic masculinity and patriarchy. You can't have French Fries because they glorify the oppression of the French colonial empire. You can't use the Hamburglar as a mascot because it "triggers" everyone who has been assaulted by a home invader. Ronald McDonald is probably "problematic" in some way because he wears white makeup. And on it goes. Check out Jonathan McIntosh and Alex Lifschitz if you don't believe me.

The only part I can take seriously is the thought of anyone taking them seriously. Which might have happened over time, if they had taken control of the gaming press unchallenged.

 

[redlemon]

OT: Fuck 'taking a stance' against Gamergate. Rather, I'll be taking a seat...in front of my television, where I'll be playing my games and temporarily forgetting about all these clowns who care more about fatuous internet drama than gaming or anything more important than the internet drama itself. As I've said before, pre-GG gaming must really have been disappointing or empty to all of those who've decided to invest this much energy into fantastical silliness of this sort. As well, I have trouble believing that those feelings of disappointment and malaise had anything to do with journalistic corruption or overwhelming amounts of leftism skewing the games' contents.

If you're going wait until these issues start affecting your everyday life before taking action, then it's probably too late to do anything about it.

 

[Hap2]

OT: Fuck 'taking a stance' against Gamergate. Rather, I'll be taking a seat...in front of my television, where I'll be playing my games and temporarily forgetting about all these clowns who care more about fatuous internet drama than gaming or anything more important than the internet drama itself. As I've said before, pre-GG gaming must really have been disappointing or empty to all of those who've decided to invest this much energy into fantastical silliness of this sort. As well, I have trouble believing that those feelings of disappointment and malaise had anything to do with journalistic corruption or overwhelming amounts of leftism skewing the games' contents.

If you're going wait until these issues start affecting your everyday life before taking action, then it's probably too late to do anything about it.

We're talking about a feud between a minority of gamers and video gaming journalists - the world doesn't care because there is no good reason for it to do so. Toothless and low-quality journalism in covering stories on the economy, environment, politics and other things that affect most people is much more important of an issue than this pile of trumped up nonsense some are getting so heated over.

 

[sataricon]

The fact that GG people are self policing is a great thing that i don't find in the other camp.
In fact ending carriers and doxxing someone is encouraged in the Anti GG people along with racism and character assassination this shows you how many of the advocates and "megaphones...lol" are actually corrupt or if their intentions are good just plain out delusional.

So yah for myself my stance is with GG.....in fact that's why i came here in the first place and now boycotting Kotaku....RPS "although i'm a pc gamer" along with gamasutra and polygon.

 

[Silvanus]

In fact ending carriers and doxxing someone is encouraged in the Anti GG people along with racism and character assassination this shows you how many of the advocates and "megaphones...lol" are actually corrupt or if their intentions are good just plain out delusional.

"In the Anti GG people"? What does that actually refer to? Anti-GG is not an organisation; it's not even a movement in itself. It is opposition to a movement.

 

[Irick]

"In the Anti GG people"? What does that actually refer to? Anti-GG is not an organisation; it's not even a movement in itself. It is opposition to a movement.

It's the same sort of rough generalization we are seeing all around. It's alright though, we just need to keep reminding people that generalizations implying actions based on arbitrary labels are generally wrong.

I feel like a broken record occasionally, but I think I'm making headway.

*THUD*

 

[sataricon]

"In the Anti GG people"? What does that actually refer to? Anti-GG is not an organisation; it's not even a movement in itself. It is opposition to a movement.

While those that are anti GG aren't an organization you can't call them not organized...as soon as this thing started they closed ranks and their sole purpose was to protect one another not self policing to discover the truth.
They are simply people who mostly holds power to censor other people's opinion.

matter of fact the most absurd claims and lies came from that camp is enough to make me glad that i'm not one of them in the hate and racism camp.

You got people claiming we are worse that ISIS and Ebola...You got people people saying we are Misogynists nickbeards and sexist.
You got people banned and threads deleted for just voicing an opinion and alot more.
And the problem here is those are the people the somehow control the news and some major websites.

The who situation had been going on for near 2 month already and the one who have every thing to lose are not gamers and that is the positive side.

 

[Silvanus]

While those that are anti GG aren't an organization you can't call them not organized...as soon as this thing started they closed ranks and their sole purpose was to protect one another not self policing to discover the truth.
They are simply people who mostly holds power to censor other people's opinion.

What "ranks"? Does criticising GamerGate make somebody "Anti-GG", or does one have to have some kind of card?

matter of fact the most absurd claims and lies came from that camp is enough to make me glad that i'm not one of them in the hate and racism camp.

You got people claiming we are worse that ISIS and Ebola...You got people people saying we are Misogynists nickbeards and sexist.
You got people banned and threads deleted for just voicing an opinion and alot more.
And the problem here is those are the people the somehow control the news and some major websites.

The who situation had been going on for near 2 month already and the one who have every thing to lose are not gamers and that is the positive side.

We have absurd crap from individuals of all sides, as is usually the case. Only the dishonest would claim otherwise.

 

[shrekfan246]

OT: Fuck 'taking a stance' against Gamergate. Rather, I'll be taking a seat...in front of my television, where I'll be playing my games and temporarily forgetting about all these clowns who care more about fatuous internet drama than gaming or anything more important than the internet drama itself. As I've said before, pre-GG gaming must really have been disappointing or empty to all of those who've decided to invest this much energy into fantastical silliness of this sort. As well, I have trouble believing that those feelings of disappointment and malaise had anything to do with journalistic corruption or overwhelming amounts of leftism skewing the games' contents.

If you're going wait until these issues start affecting your everyday life before taking action, then it's probably too late to do anything about it.

You realize we're talking about video games, right?

Like, literally the worst thing that will ever happen out of "corrupt" journalists pushing a game is that I'll have to look a little more heavily into it in other places before I decide whether I'm going to buy it or not.

And people talking about sociopolitical subjects as they relate to video games? I highly doubt that is literally ever going to impact my everyday life in any way. In fact, the more I actually avoid threads like this one or that megathread, the more it gets reinforced to me how little everything "gamers" have been bitching about for nigh on two months now actually impacts my life.

 

[sataricon]

criticizing #gamergate is fine as long as your criticism is based on facts.
Simply calling us Misogynists or sexist isn't a legitimate criticism and have no value what so ever.

Now in regards to the "absurd crap" yah there are shit being flung from both sides as i have already mentioned that GG have have it's fair share of idiots and trolls and they are the ones that fling this shit from the side of GG.

You know anonymous idiots i can understand this shit "or maybe even false flags but that's another talk" but hey it's the internet after all.
But from known people who supposed to know better.....people who are "SUPPOSED" to be professional.

People who you trust to bring you news and opinion.

 

[sataricon]

OT: Fuck 'taking a stance' against Gamergate. Rather, I'll be taking a seat...in front of my television, where I'll be playing my games and temporarily forgetting about all these clowns who care more about fatuous internet drama than gaming or anything more important than the internet drama itself. As I've said before, pre-GG gaming must really have been disappointing or empty to all of those who've decided to invest this much energy into fantastical silliness of this sort. As well, I have trouble believing that those feelings of disappointment and malaise had anything to do with journalistic corruption or overwhelming amounts of leftism skewing the games' contents.

If you're going wait until these issues start affecting your everyday life before taking action, then it's probably too late to do anything about it.

You realize we're talking about video games, right?

Like, literally the worst thing that will ever happen out of "corrupt" journalists pushing a game is that I'll have to look a little more heavily into it in other places before I decide whether I'm going to buy it or not.

And people talking about sociopolitical subjects as they relate to video games? I highly doubt that is literally ever going to impact my everyday life in any way. In fact, the more I actually avoid threads like this one or that megathread, the more it gets reinforced to me how little everything "gamers" have been bitching about for nigh on two months now actually impacts my life.

Now that is a position i can understand.
I wish i were like you.

 

[QuicklyAcross]

IF and ONLY IF you can somehow manage to get a COHERENT goddamn argument that does not rely on low hanging fruits or logical fallacies in your argument then yes i will listen, i will respect that disagreeing opinion.
However it is rare to see these when the loudest people always spew the same misinformed garbage that you cant seriously be expected to "debate". The same goes for many other debates aswell, if the ANTI-something of any group of any side wishes to get their voices heard and respected, then you better damn well PRESENT your opinion in a respectable fashion.

And now, a max character tweet or even a twitlonger will not suffice