You Don't Know Jack

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
17,032
0
0
summerof2010 said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
My personal definition of "do good", is "try not to harm anyone".

It's loose, but I haven't really encounter any terribly contrived situations in my life that have torn be apart yet.
Simple, easy to work with, respectable. I dig it. So as long as a person subscribes to that code of ethics, they're heaven bound, right? What if someone places, say, their country over the lives of millions? Though they have a different code of ethics, they're still doing what's "right." Or what determines your code of ethics? I'm going somewhere with this.
Their country?

I don't believe that people should have a loyalty to the place they were born and raised, because that's something out of your control.

But if their internal ethics clashes with mine, as long as they feel it's right, I can't really fault them. I can disagree with them, and maybe even argue, but I can't really insult them for their choices.
 

Prof. Monkeypox

New member
Mar 17, 2010
1,014
0
0
Although I found the series a bit obtuse at times, I really loved the Chronicles of Narnia series. Thanks for posting this info. it was really interesting to see the mind behind it all.
 

Sewblon

New member
Nov 5, 2008
3,107
0
0
Good Article. What really struck me is it turned out that C.S Lewis's view of ethics as it relates to theology is the polar opposite of mine. I have a non-merit based view of the afterlife, I haven't believed in any sort of karma before or after death for a while. The only downside is it leaves my ethics for daily life on shaky philosophical ground at best and a mirage at worst.
Steve Butts said:
The Left Behind series is speculative theology as well, as there's a lot about it that goes against the current interpretation of Revelations. It's always seemed to me to be a form of intimidation rather than explication. Conversion through fear is hardly a profitable method for Christians to engage their non-Christian neighbors. Tolkien criticized Lewis's theology, but the Narnia books express the same Christian concepts of freewill and providence that are at the very heart of The Lord of the Rings -- Frodo chooses to be good and constantly relies on outside help to save him from his circumstances.

With regard to the claim that "No one comes to the Father but through me," we need to be careful that we don't take things entirely out of context. The New Testament book of Romans also says your nature is a law to yourself, written on your hearts and witnessed by your conscience, which suggests pure legalism is not the answer. Lewis's writings about Christianity rarely treated the subject of denominations, focusing instead on what he called "the rules common to the whole house." That was kind of Jesus's whole point.

Oh, and like everyone else said, this was a great article.
Those are some good insights Mr.Butts.
 

Orthon

New member
Mar 28, 2009
89
0
0
I've been thinking about reading some Tolkien in order to prepare for the upcoming Hobbit movie and after reading this article, I feel like I should throw in some Narnia books too on that to-do list.

My only contact with the Narnia series is the first movie and the last book, the latter I read when I was a kid. As I recall, I didn't finish that book, because the "badass" lion didn't show up fast enough(Again,I was a kid. :>).

Also, the article made me realize I've never read the Bible. Maybe I should, to better understand what all the fuss is about.
 

Unesh52

New member
May 27, 2010
1,375
0
0
GothmogII said:
You raise an interesting point. And just as I'm about to ask something, I realise exactly where that argument will head. i.e. From whence comes morality/ethics. In this fictional argument that we are most certainly not having, I say that that morals are solely in the province of the human mind, up to and including so called Holy texts are human creations based on human perceptions and reactions to the world around them.
You're right, we're not having that conversation; in fact, I can safely say I've never [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.247901-Non-cognitivism-not-as-complicated-as-it-sounds#9125057] even conceived of such a thing ;)

Onyx Oblivion said:
...if their internal ethics clashes with mine, as long as they feel it's right, I can't really fault them. I can disagree with them, and maybe even argue, but I can't really insult them for their choices.
Well that's kind of what I'm saying. The way you phrased it originally it sounds like there's a specific set of "good" things that all people should do, but you yourself acknowledge everyone's right to their own opinions about right and wrong. Don't get me wrong -- I agree with and support all of your statements, including the original one. I just think you saying you do "good" is meaningless, or at least obvious, given your interpretation (which is also my interpretation) of morality. You might as well have said "I live my life by doing things I think I should do." It's just like, well, of course you do.

You know, this all sounds so confrontational as I type it. Do you understand what I'm trying to say though? It's not that what you've said is wrong exactly, it's just pointless to say because it's necessarily true -- for everyone.
 

ikrit

New member
Sep 24, 2009
16
0
0
I would just like to repeat what everyone else has said, and thank you for a great, enthusiastic and informative article. Very interesting indeed, Thank you!
 

Distazo

New member
Feb 25, 2009
291
0
0
I have always enjoyed Moviebob's commentary and this might be one of the best, most thought provoking article that I have read on the escapist. Absolutely brilliant from start to finish.
 

Staskala

New member
Sep 28, 2010
537
0
0
MovieBob said:
In a manner of speaking, one could almost call Narnia a massive work of religious fan fiction, although Aslan's "gospel" often owes more to Jack than it does to Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. In The Last Battle (Narnia's Book of Revalations) Aslan comforts a former-follower of Tash - the demonic "false-god" of Narnia's enemies - who now fears punishment for having worshipped the wrong idol. Aslan dismisses his fears, explaining that since he'd lived a morally-upstanding life it didn't matter. Good deeds were good deeds, regardless of which god they were done for, so welcome to Aslan's Country (read: Heaven.) That's about as far away from "No one comes to the Father but through me!" as you can get.
And as close to Christ as you can get. Whose story is detailed in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
Did you confuse the Old and the New Testament? The "No one comes to the Father but through me!" sounds more like the cherub who guards the gate to paradise and resigns after Jesus comes along as he is no longer needed.
You know, the whole "Everyone can get to God regardless of what he did previously" is kinda Christ's point, including the "good deeds weight more than faith" part.

OT: I'm actually amazed that I still remember this stuff, I haven't had anything to do with Christianity in ages.
 

McShizzle

New member
Jun 18, 2008
225
0
0
Onyx Oblivion said:
I should read these books already.

"Good deeds are good deeds." has basically been my philosophy on how to live my life and what should happen with whatever sort of god/afterlife there is/isn't.

"Don't be a dick." is also part of it. :p
Hehe, that's pretty similar to mine, "Don't be a jerk, and things will turn out alright."

Good article Bob. I always liked the Narnia books, but frankly I wish I had never found out that they had anything to do with friggin religion (happened a long time ago). I wish they could've just stayed stories about some kids, a talking lion, a magical country, and a frosty witch.
 

darth gditch

Dark Gamer of the Sith
Jun 3, 2009
332
0
0
An excellent glance at Lewis' life. I'm glad you took the time to explain a bit about the complexity of the man instead of dismissing him as either a preachy theologian or a mere children's myth-maker.
 

whitemoth

New member
Aug 3, 2010
4
0
0
Just a couple notes: 1--it's Revelation, not Revelations; 2--Christ said 'through me', not 'through believing in me'. Aslan, in his mercy, allowed some followers of Tash into his country--it was his decision alone that determined who got in and who didn't, which is entirely consistent with the Bible.
 

Thunderhorse31

New member
Apr 22, 2009
1,818
0
0
Great read, I can only hope to see something similar about Tolkien when The Hobbit movies finally roll out.

No need to credit me with the idea, just make it happen. ;)
 

Anacortian

New member
May 19, 2009
280
0
0
This is a fine article. If anybody is looking for the exact line of reasoning that mingled so well Christianity and mythology (something which was never truly divorced) Tolkien's "On Fairy Stories" is a great lecture.

I believe the Moviebob may have misinterpreted "Nobody comes to the Father except through me." Aslan could have easily said the same thing and meant it in the same way as Christ. Notice that Aslan's postapocalyptic convert converted. In a nutshell, this is why the Catholic doctrine of Baptism Through Desire is consistently applied liberally. Everyone in Heaven must thank Christ for his redemption for that is intrinsic to being in Heaven.

As to which denomination (or even religion) one belongs, the Church is the ordinary way for Man to come to God, but Omnipotence is not bound by the ordinary way.

In full disclosure, I would consider myself a Catholic with a great Lewisian influence. I really do believe he would be well on his way to being Saint Clive if Tolkien had done his job more perfectly. I have great faith that he is speeding towards his Creator, but it would have been nice to have him on the Canon.
 

arikata

New member
Aug 10, 2009
11
0
0
Beautiful article about a seriously complex man and a series of books that have always had a place in my heart. I've read these books over and over again and they always say something new to me. I myself am an atheist, but I can still take away the message of doing good deeds taught in its pages. I never knew much about Lewis and will now have a new perception to read through next time I pick the series up.
 

RaphaelsRedemption

Eats With Her Mouth Full
May 3, 2010
1,409
0
0
Bravo, MovieBob! Thank you for writing about one of my favourite authors.

I think one of the things I love about C.S. Lewis is his simplicity and good will. His books just radiate this generous spirit, where no one is irredeemable and no mistake is irreversible. It's an optimism rarely seen anywhere these days.

I learnt some new things about "Jack", and I think I'll be referring others to this article in the future. Thanks!
 

Albino Boo

New member
Jun 14, 2010
4,667
0
0
Representing C S Lewis as liberal Anglican is not that accurate. Lewis positions on most issues was distinctly high church verging on the Anglo catholic of the oxford movement. Acceptance of the theory of evolution is not in the UK a sign of liberalism but the general position of most Christian churches. Only fringe groups, mostly of American origin, purpose creationism.
 

hobo_welf

New member
Aug 15, 2008
200
0
0
qbanknight said:
Fascinating article Bob, perhaps Lewis' grab-bag approach not only applied to forging the mythic world of Narnia, but also bringing together the various religious sects
Ehhhh he has mentioned before that the book was definitely about Jesus and he has definitely casually dismissed (as Bob mentioned) Islam, and Eastern religion in general.

Seriously, great ass article.
 

qbanknight

New member
Apr 15, 2009
669
0
0
hobo_welf said:
qbanknight said:
Fascinating article Bob, perhaps Lewis' grab-bag approach not only applied to forging the mythic world of Narnia, but also bringing together the various religious sects
Ehhhh he has mentioned before that the book was definitely about Jesus and he has definitely casually dismissed (as Bob mentioned) Islam, and Eastern religion in general.

Seriously, great ass article.
I was referring more to the multiple Christian sects than anything else (I get that Islam and other religions were not Lewis' explicit intention). Even today you have Baptists, Catholics, Protestants arguing over who is right and wrong (usually for stuff about taking the Bible literally, which is always a fucking stupid idea)
 

hobo_welf

New member
Aug 15, 2008
200
0
0
qbanknight said:
Even today you have Baptists, Catholics, Protestants arguing over who is right and wrong (usually for stuff about taking the Bible literally, which is always a fucking stupid idea)
I agree whole heartedly!