You Don't Know Jack

[Unesh52]

You raise an interesting point. And just as I'm about to ask something, I realise exactly where that argument will head. i.e. From whence comes morality/ethics. In this fictional argument that we are most certainly not having, I say that that morals are solely in the province of the human mind, up to and including so called Holy texts are human creations based on human perceptions and reactions to the world around them.

You're right, we're not having that conversation; in fact, I can safely say I've never [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.247901-Non-cognitivism-not-as-complicated-as-it-sounds#9125057] even conceived of such a thing

...if their internal ethics clashes with mine, as long as they feel it's right, I can't really fault them. I can disagree with them, and maybe even argue, but I can't really insult them for their choices.

Well that's kind of what I'm saying. The way you phrased it originally it sounds like there's a specific set of "good" things that all people should do, but you yourself acknowledge everyone's right to their own opinions about right and wrong. Don't get me wrong -- I agree with and support all of your statements, including the original one. I just think you saying you do "good" is meaningless, or at least obvious, given your interpretation (which is also my interpretation) of morality. You might as well have said "I live my life by doing things I think I should do." It's just like, well, of course you do.

You know, this all sounds so confrontational as I type it. Do you understand what I'm trying to say though? It's not that what you've said is wrong exactly, it's just pointless to say because it's necessarily true -- for everyone.

 

[ikrit]

I would just like to repeat what everyone else has said, and thank you for a great, enthusiastic and informative article. Very interesting indeed, Thank you!

 

[Distazo]

I have always enjoyed Moviebob's commentary and this might be one of the best, most thought provoking article that I have read on the escapist. Absolutely brilliant from start to finish.

 

[Staskala]

In a manner of speaking, one could almost call Narnia a massive work of religious fan fiction, although Aslan's "gospel" often owes more to Jack than it does to Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. In The Last Battle (Narnia's Book of Revalations) Aslan comforts a former-follower of Tash - the demonic "false-god" of Narnia's enemies - who now fears punishment for having worshipped the wrong idol. Aslan dismisses his fears, explaining that since he'd lived a morally-upstanding life it didn't matter. Good deeds were good deeds, regardless of which god they were done for, so welcome to Aslan's Country (read: Heaven.) That's about as far away from "No one comes to the Father but through me!" as you can get.

And as close to Christ as you can get. Whose story is detailed in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
Did you confuse the Old and the New Testament? The "No one comes to the Father but through me!" sounds more like the cherub who guards the gate to paradise and resigns after Jesus comes along as he is no longer needed.
You know, the whole "Everyone can get to God regardless of what he did previously" is kinda Christ's point, including the "good deeds weight more than faith" part.

OT: I'm actually amazed that I still remember this stuff, I haven't had anything to do with Christianity in ages.

 

[McShizzle]

I should read these books already.

"Good deeds are good deeds." has basically been my philosophy on how to live my life and what should happen with whatever sort of god/afterlife there is/isn't.

"Don't be a dick." is also part of it.

Hehe, that's pretty similar to mine, "Don't be a jerk, and things will turn out alright."

Good article Bob. I always liked the Narnia books, but frankly I wish I had never found out that they had anything to do with friggin religion (happened a long time ago). I wish they could've just stayed stories about some kids, a talking lion, a magical country, and a frosty witch.

 

[darth gditch]

An excellent glance at Lewis' life. I'm glad you took the time to explain a bit about the complexity of the man instead of dismissing him as either a preachy theologian or a mere children's myth-maker.

 

[whitemoth]

Just a couple notes: 1--it's Revelation, not Revelations; 2--Christ said 'through me', not 'through believing in me'. Aslan, in his mercy, allowed some followers of Tash into his country--it was his decision alone that determined who got in and who didn't, which is entirely consistent with the Bible.

 

[Thunderhorse31]

Great read, I can only hope to see something similar about Tolkien when The Hobbit movies finally roll out.

No need to credit me with the idea, just make it happen.

 

[Anacortian]

This is a fine article. If anybody is looking for the exact line of reasoning that mingled so well Christianity and mythology (something which was never truly divorced) Tolkien's "On Fairy Stories" is a great lecture.

I believe the Moviebob may have misinterpreted "Nobody comes to the Father except through me." Aslan could have easily said the same thing and meant it in the same way as Christ. Notice that Aslan's postapocalyptic convert converted. In a nutshell, this is why the Catholic doctrine of Baptism Through Desire is consistently applied liberally. Everyone in Heaven must thank Christ for his redemption for that is intrinsic to being in Heaven.

As to which denomination (or even religion) one belongs, the Church is the ordinary way for Man to come to God, but Omnipotence is not bound by the ordinary way.

In full disclosure, I would consider myself a Catholic with a great Lewisian influence. I really do believe he would be well on his way to being Saint Clive if Tolkien had done his job more perfectly. I have great faith that he is speeding towards his Creator, but it would have been nice to have him on the Canon.

 

[arikata]

Beautiful article about a seriously complex man and a series of books that have always had a place in my heart. I've read these books over and over again and they always say something new to me. I myself am an atheist, but I can still take away the message of doing good deeds taught in its pages. I never knew much about Lewis and will now have a new perception to read through next time I pick the series up.

 

[RaphaelsRedemption]

Bravo, MovieBob! Thank you for writing about one of my favourite authors.

I think one of the things I love about C.S. Lewis is his simplicity and good will. His books just radiate this generous spirit, where no one is irredeemable and no mistake is irreversible. It's an optimism rarely seen anywhere these days.

I learnt some new things about "Jack", and I think I'll be referring others to this article in the future. Thanks!

 

[Albino Boo]

Representing C S Lewis as liberal Anglican is not that accurate. Lewis positions on most issues was distinctly high church verging on the Anglo catholic of the oxford movement. Acceptance of the theory of evolution is not in the UK a sign of liberalism but the general position of most Christian churches. Only fringe groups, mostly of American origin, purpose creationism.

 

[hobo_welf]

Fascinating article Bob, perhaps Lewis' grab-bag approach not only applied to forging the mythic world of Narnia, but also bringing together the various religious sects

Ehhhh he has mentioned before that the book was definitely about Jesus and he has definitely casually dismissed (as Bob mentioned) Islam, and Eastern religion in general.

Seriously, great ass article.

 

[qbanknight]

Fascinating article Bob, perhaps Lewis' grab-bag approach not only applied to forging the mythic world of Narnia, but also bringing together the various religious sects

Ehhhh he has mentioned before that the book was definitely about Jesus and he has definitely casually dismissed (as Bob mentioned) Islam, and Eastern religion in general.

Seriously, great ass article.

I was referring more to the multiple Christian sects than anything else (I get that Islam and other religions were not Lewis' explicit intention). Even today you have Baptists, Catholics, Protestants arguing over who is right and wrong (usually for stuff about taking the Bible literally, which is always a fucking stupid idea)

 

[hobo_welf]

Even today you have Baptists, Catholics, Protestants arguing over who is right and wrong (usually for stuff about taking the Bible literally, which is always a fucking stupid idea)

I agree whole heartedly!

 

[magnuslion]

so.....Your presumption is that the chronicles of narnia are about C.C Lewis struggle with his faith. But you should not be presenting that as fact. I can see how you could interpret it that way, but I do not recall Lewis ever saying that anywhere.

Note: Before the Hordes attempt to descend on me, I am a messianic Jew. what does that mean? That I believe in Messiah ((Jesus)). It also means I am less religious than your average agnostic or atheist. My faith leads me to believe that Christ did not come here to give us a new set of rules to replace the old ones. He came to redeem us from sin.

So I am not here to defend the church or organized religion. I am saying that while I could posit the same things that Bob is saying from having read not only The Chronicles, but pretty much everything else CS ever wrote ((My other favorite is the Screwtape Letters)) that no one really knows what Lewis was feeling or why he wrote the Chronicles.

Moreover, to understand Lewis' style of Gospel is to simply understand that not all of us believe wholeheartedly in every single bit of the Bible. I can point out many things that have been mistranslated from Hebrew into English. I can show you places where what Jesus says conflicts with what his contemporaries ((I am eyeballing you, Paul)) would later write.

My point, Bob, is that you seem to have serious issues with religion, and it colors every review you do that has anything to do with religion. you have never come out and admitted that, and it bothers me.
I have issues with religion, organized as it is, but then I am not an internet celebrity with the power to influence people. I talk with people all the time about my faith, about what I believe, but I am not preachy and I do not stuff things down peoples throats. That is not what Jesus would do.

I think that Aslan is a better representation of the whole of what Christ is than any other modern interpretation of the Messiah.

/rant

 

[JunebugJuJuBee]

*pulls out her collection of narnia books and the space trilogy*

This was my favorite article since your history of colonial fiction. It might be because books inherently interest me more than movies but...damn, bob. You have a way with words. I remember thinking, as a child, that I enjoyed Lewis' vision of heaven more than the stuffy one I was being taught to believe in. Now I'm a Theological Evolutionist and learning more about the man that shaped my desire to write was a wonderful treat.

 

[Superhyperactiveman]

Very good read. However, one bit near could be debated.

Aslan comforts a former-follower of Tash - the demonic "false-god" of Narnia's enemies - who now fears punishment for having worshipped the wrong idol. Aslan dismisses his fears, explaining that since he'd lived a morally-upstanding life it didn't matter. Good deeds were good deeds, regardless of which god they were done for, so welcome to Aslan's Country (read: Heaven.) That's about as far away from "No one comes to the Father but through me!" as you can get.

Personally, it sounds to me like the follower of Tash still entered "through" Aslan. I think this is a different interpretation of that quote--if they lived good lives, then people can convert during their judgement and enter Paradise through Christ--not an opposing opinion.

I haven't read the book myself, but based on what a friend told me, your interpretation is rather close. If I remember correctly, he said that Aslan went on to say something to the effect of "Everything good you did in the name of Tash was actually attributed to me, and everything evil you did in rejection of me was attributed to Tash" or something like that. The basic theory behind this interpretation is that goodness itself is literally God acting in this world, so if you accept goodness, then you accept God, even if in your mind you reject the concept of God.

 

[duchaked]

good article, the ending caught me by surprise but noice

(& stay classy people!)

 

[Cliff_m85]

I've read a bit of his work. The fantasy books are quite good, but his theological texts were just lame. Very easy stuff to debunk, really. But overall, his fictional sci/fi fantasy type work was quite good.