Your Favorite Terrible Movie. Or So Bad They're Awesome

BrawlMan

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Michael Bay seems to make Transformers movies for a very specific audience: Michael Bay. OMG THE US MILITARY IS AWESOME also throw in an awkward romance for the girls and I guess there's robots somewhere in there too.


"Optimus who? Oh, whatever. RAAAGH MACHINE GUNS!"
Vanquish's transforming robots have more dignity than whatever Bay comes up with. They are literal soulless, killing machines, whom have more personality than the Autobots or Decepticons combined with all the Bayformers movies. This scene literally happens in the game!

I tried to defend the first live action movie somewhat at the time. I knew it wasn't perfect, but I saw it as just a regular 7 out of 10. Nowadays you ask me, it would just be a 5-6 out of 10. Then Revenge of the Fallen happened and soured that whole experience. I saw a Dark Of The Moon, but it was only barely better than the second movie. I saw the fourth movie twice, and I skipped out on the 5th movie. Bumblebee I was elated to see. So far it is the only good live action Transformers movie. I am so glad Bay does not want to do these anymore, nor holds any interests.
 
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gorfias

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The best example is Starshoop Troopers which was a critique of militarism and nationalism but was executed so well that a lot of people didn't get it for a while.
Sargon does a good analysis of the movie. I think it wanted to be anti-nationalism but the source material was not.

 

Old_Hunter_77

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Sargon does a good analysis of the movie. I think it wanted to be anti-nationalism but the source material was not.
*sigh* yeah, Robert Heinlen is a whole.. thing, to deal with, as sci-fi fans.
Basically he's the progenitor of this certain flavor of problematic white dude genre writer that has become all to prevalent today. It's that whole fascist but not really wink wink game that Frank Miller plays. Like isn't it cool to invade countries and have tons of women but I'm totally not an imperialist or sexist. Libertarian, but loving "wars on terror" and beating the crap out of criminals and American toppling socialist governments. But not really, if you accuse them of that they will cry, while also complainging about PCwokecancelculturesnowflakes, etc. That whole exhausting vibe.. I place Heinlein at the forefront of this stuff. But also he's a hell of a writer technically and knows how to tell a story.
 

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*sigh* yeah, Robert Heinlen is a whole.. thing, to deal with, as sci-fi fans.
Basically he's the progenitor of this certain flavor of problematic white dude genre writer that has become all to prevalent today. It's that whole fascist but not really wink wink game that Frank Miller plays. Like isn't it cool to invade countries and have tons of women but I'm totally not an imperialist or sexist. Libertarian, but loving "wars on terror" and beating the crap out of criminals and American toppling socialist governments. But not really, if you accuse them of that they will cry, while also complainging about PCwokecancelculturesnowflakes, etc. That whole exhausting vibe.. I place Heinlein at the forefront of this stuff. But also he's a hell of a writer technically and knows how to tell a story.
I went through a whole phase of adoring everything he wrote. Time Enough For Love among my all time favorites. At some point, his writing seemed too sugary sweet for me.
 

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It's that whole fascist but not really wink wink game that Frank Miller plays. Like isn't it cool to invade countries and have tons of women but I'm totally not an imperialist or sexist. Libertarian, but loving "wars on terror" and beating the crap out of criminals and American toppling socialist governments
Yeah, Frank Miller is so much worse with this. Interesting trivia, did you know he helped write the script for RoboCop 2? That explains the drop in quality. Or at least part of it.

But not really, if you accuse them of that they will cry, while also complainging about PCwokecancelculturesnowflakes,
Frank Miller did that too. Most sensible people and fans told him to screw off. Not even the comic book industry wants him anymore; DC especially.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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I did not know about Miller and Robocop 2, but then I don't really acknowledge that movie because the original is the greatest work Verhoeven movie and he didn't make the second. Similar to the sequel to 2001: A Space Odyssey- I'm aware there were sequels and I may have even watched them but there are no sequels and can't be in my mind. Technically Queen kept going after Freddie Mercury died but, pfft, come on, you know?
 
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Thaluikhain

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I did not know about Miller and Robocop 2, but then I don't really acknowledge that movie because the original is the greatest work Verhoeven movie and he didn't make the second. Similar to the sequel to 2001: A Space Odyssey- I'm aware there were sequels and I may have even watched them but there are no sequels and can't be in my mind. Technically Queen kept going after Freddie Mercury died but, pfft, come on, you know?
Eh, I don't mind 2010, but as long as it's understood to not be a sequel to 2001 and just re-uses some of the same sets in a ghost story set in space.
 
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gorfias

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Yeah, Frank Miller is so much worse with this. Interesting trivia, did you know he helped write the script for RoboCop 2? That explains the drop in quality. Or at least part of it.


Frank Miller did that too. Most sensible people and fans told him to screw off. Not even a comic book industry wants him anymore; DC especially.
I love a lot of Miller's stuff but I hear he is a very messed up person.

His "Ronin" graphic novel is among my favorite works.

He also helped write Robocop 3 which has one terrific element to it. If Robocop is a Detroit made Cheve, he has to fight a couple of souped up Japanese Hondas (Robots with Samuri swords that can slice and dice him).
1661265557962.png
 

Agema

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also throw in an awkward romance for the girls
I don't want to be too mean - no wait, actually that's not true, I'd love to be - but rewatching those reviews also reminds me that the attitudes to women in those movies are painful. I'm aware that I was about 2-3 times the age of the main target audience when they came out, but it felt like not much had moved on from Revenge Of The Nerds and Porky's, except that they couldn't get nudity into the desired age restriction certificate. Unfortunately, as I had by then used my decade plus of adulthood to grow the fuck up and appreciate women as human beings rather than sex objects for smutty ogling, it just made me rather deflated.
 

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Technically Queen kept going after Freddie Mercury died but, pfft, come on, you know?
When Chester Bennington hung himself, that didn't stop Linkin Park from going on and making new albums. Mike Shinoda (the group's lead rapper) said they ain't stopping, nor quitting. He's been making music on his YouTube channel.
love a lot of Miller's stuff but I hear he is a very messed up person.
I could be totally wrong, but I think he got more messed up over time, and his best regarded works are early on before he got too bad.
9/11 pretty much "broke" him. It still didn't excuse the prejudice, stereotypes, sexism, racism and anti-Muslim rhetoric.


If you want the short version. Watch this important speech.
 
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Agema

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*sigh* yeah, Robert Heinlen is a whole.. thing, to deal with, as sci-fi fans.
Basically he's the progenitor of this certain flavor of problematic white dude genre writer that has become all to prevalent today. It's that whole fascist but not really wink wink
To be fair, Heinlein was if anything first and foremost a libertarian, and definitely no big fan of fascism at all.

However, he was also very much right-wing after his youth, and part of that political leaning is often a glorification of the military, with soldiers portrayed as self-reliant, dependable, responsible, heroic; often viewing somewhat dog-eat-dog ideas and overvalorising strength through arms. Although intensely militaristic, the society in the book is not really fascist, because anyone is free to sign up and become enfranchised; it is not an illiberal society, nor (outside political power) do the disenfranchised have any disadvantage, many evidently being wildly successful.

Verhoeven cuts through and sees that such a military society would be... kind of fascist. He's probably right. And so he turns it, at least in part, into a satire. One might note Heinlein himself also seems to have recognised maybe an issue, as after the book's publication he semi-backtracked on the militarism by claiming civil service was also sufficient for enfranchisement with military veterans only a small minority: but this seems inconsistent with the book's contents.
 

Thaluikhain

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To be fair, Heinlein was if anything first and foremost a libertarian, and definitely no big fan of fascism at all.

However, he was also very much right-wing after his youth, and part of that political leaning is often a glorification of the military, with soldiers portrayed as self-reliant, dependable, responsible, heroic; often viewing somewhat dog-eat-dog ideas and overvalorising strength through arms. Although intensely militaristic, the society in the book is not really fascist, because anyone is free to sign up and become enfranchised; it is not an illiberal society, nor (outside political power) do the disenfranchised have any disadvantage, many evidently being wildly successful.

Verhoeven cuts through and sees that such a military society would be... kind of fascist. He's probably right. And so he turns it, at least in part, into a satire. One might note Heinlein himself also seems to have recognised maybe an issue, as after the book's publication he semi-backtracked on the militarism by claiming civil service was also sufficient for enfranchisement with military veterans only a small minority: but this seems inconsistent with the book's contents.
It is often mentioned that Heinlein himself served in the US Navy, but only during peacetime, which may have coloured his views.
 

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I don't want to be too mean - no wait, actually that's not true, I'd love to be - but rewatching those reviews also reminds me that the attitudes to women in those movies are painful. I'm aware that I was about 2-3 times the age of the main target audience when they came out, but it felt like not much had moved on from Revenge Of The Nerds and Porky's, except that they couldn't get nudity into the desired age restriction certificate. Unfortunately, as I had by then used my decade plus of adulthood to grow the fuck up and appreciate women as human beings rather than sex objects for smutty ogling, it just made me rather deflated.
I was between the ages of 17 and 20 when the first three movies came out. They did nothing for me, because it was so shallow and bare bones. I already had seen more fan service from older R-rated movies and anime before the first live-action Transformers even dropped. Megan Fox is nice looking at all but her fan service did nothing for me. My brother did have a hard-on for her (she was not the only one). He still does, if I remember correctly.
 
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Thaluikhain

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I was between the ages of 18 and 20 when the first three movies came out. They did nothing for me, because it was so shallow and bare bones. I already had seen more fan service from older R-rated movies and anime before the first live-action Transformers even dropped. Megan Fox is nice looking at all but her fan service did nothing for me. My brother did have a hard-on for her (she was not the only one). He still does, if I remember correctly.
I think Megan Fox is helped by her playing the only remotely interesting character in those movies, with perhaps the exception of the female Decepticon that wants to stab the hero with her tail in the second. I can sympathise with that motivation.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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To be fair, Heinlein was if anything first and foremost a libertarian, and definitely no big fan of fascism at all.

However, he was also very much right-wing after his youth, and part of that political leaning is often a glorification of the military, with soldiers portrayed as self-reliant, dependable, responsible, heroic; often viewing somewhat dog-eat-dog ideas and overvalorising strength through arms. Although intensely militaristic, the society in the book is not really fascist, because anyone is free to sign up and become enfranchised; it is not an illiberal society, nor (outside political power) do the disenfranchised have any disadvantage, many evidently being wildly successful.

Verhoeven cuts through and sees that such a military society would be... kind of fascist. He's probably right. And so he turns it, at least in part, into a satire. One might note Heinlein himself also seems to have recognised maybe an issue, as after the book's publication he semi-backtracked on the militarism by claiming civil service was also sufficient for enfranchisement with military veterans only a small minority: but this seems inconsistent with the book's contents.
Libertarian pretty much = right wing = fascism.
And I know that's a contentious claim and libertarianism is a thing people like to argue about it and let's not get into that here and if you wann just call me wrong that's fine but, whatever, it's all the same crap really.

You know one reason maybe why Verhoeven has a better understanding of militarism/fascism etc? 'Cause unlike egotist Americans Heinlein and Miller (wah-wah 9/11 "broke" him, I spent the day counting how many literal family and friends might be freaking killed that day and I don't talk about torturing Muslims for funsies go figure), Verhoeven actually spent some of his childhood in Nazi occupied territory (that is why he made Black Book).

Yeesh, talk about "snowflakes" (by which I mean Heinlein and Miller not you guys, lol)

Anyway to change topics another favorite bad movie of mine is Rocky 3. I really think the first one is genuinely good and all the ones after 3 are bad but not good-bad just bad. 3 is when the franchise became a formulaic franchise and all the stereotype Rocky stuff with Eye of the Tiger and whatever.
For those that remember Rocky movies like they're Friends episodes, i.e., "the one with...", this is the one with Mr. T. Rocky is the champion and he's lazy and comfortable and rich and Mr. T is Clubber Lang (yes that is the character's name), he is young and hungry and calling Rocky out.

The racial politics of this movie alone is insane- Mr. T is following Rocky around and taunting him into giving him a shot at the title, reminiscent of what Jack Johnson did in 1908 to become the first black heavyweight champion. But Mr. T is very much presented as a "bad guy," even though he's not really wrong. And to help Rocky defeat this dark menace, he recruits the now "good" black guy Apollo Creed, and the implied respectability politics kicks in. This hits its maximal hilarity when Creed takes Rocky to his old gym in LA so it's all black people and hip-hop and Rocky learns rhythm, like some dance movie. But during the training montage where they're presumably listening to hip-hop or funk the soundtrack is like 80s rock cheese, probably Frank Stallone or whatever, it's so bad.

And the homoeroticism, my goodness, if you like oily muscle hugs this is for you. Stallone cut an insane amount of body fat for this and also got plastic surgery (this is lampshaded in the movie by a comment from Paulie).

The worst part honestly is how Adrian really becomes a nothing. She is actually so important in the first two movies, their love story is the story of the movies not the boxing. In 3 she's like "no Rocky please don't punch, ok nah j/k go punch lulz" and then Rocky can run on the beach and sexy slo-mo hug Creed. So dumb lol.
 

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I think Megan Fox is helped by her playing the only remotely interesting character in those movies, with perhaps the exception of the female Decepticon that wants to stab the hero with her tail in the second. I can sympathise with that motivation.
What ever happened to Fox, she was such a big deal.

I was just recently watching New Girl and she appears for some episodes and is not a bad actress. I mean, they definitely gave her a role that plays to her strengths- like she's basically a very confident successful cool hot chick- so it's like she's the straight man as Deschanel and the other wacky characters run around them but straight man is an important role and she did a fine job. It's important for an actor to do comedy to show range and a sense of humility so good for her, I liked her and not JUST because she is good looking.
 
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I think Megan Fox is helped by her playing the only remotely interesting character in those movies, with perhaps the exception of the female Decepticon that wants to stab the hero with her tail in the second. I can sympathise with that motivation.
Nothing against Fox, but I found nothing interesting about her character either. Not even under the most interesting label.
 

gorfias

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Libertarian pretty much = right wing = fascism.
And I know that's a contentious claim and libertarianism is a thing people like to argue about it and let's not get into that here and if you wann just call me wrong that's fine but, whatever, it's all the same crap really.

You know one reason maybe why Verhoeven has a better understanding of militarism/fascism etc? 'Cause unlike egotist Americans Heinlein and Miller (wah-wah 9/11 "broke" him, I spent the day counting how many literal family and friends might be freaking killed that day and I don't talk about torturing Muslims for funsies go figure), Verhoeven actually spent some of his childhood in Nazi occupied territory (that is why he made Black Book).

Yeesh, talk about "snowflakes" (by which I mean Heinlein and Miller not you guys, lol)

Anyway to change topics another favorite bad movie of mine is Rocky 3. I really think the first one is genuinely good and all the ones after 3 are bad but not good-bad just bad. 3 is when the franchise became a formulaic franchise and all the stereotype Rocky stuff with Eye of the Tiger and whatever.
For those that remember Rocky movies like they're Friends episodes, i.e., "the one with...", this is the one with Mr. T. Rocky is the champion and he's lazy and comfortable and rich and Mr. T is Clubber Lang (yes that is the character's name), he is young and hungry and calling Rocky out.

The racial politics of this movie alone is insane- Mr. T is following Rocky around and taunting him into giving him a shot at the title, reminiscent of what Jack Johnson did in 1908 to become the first black heavyweight champion. But Mr. T is very much presented as a "bad guy," even though he's not really wrong. And to help Rocky defeat this dark menace, he recruits the now "good" black guy Apollo Creed, and the implied respectability politics kicks in. This hits its maximal hilarity when Creed takes Rocky to his old gym in LA so it's all black people and hip-hop and Rocky learns rhythm, like some dance movie. But during the training montage where they're presumably listening to hip-hop or funk the soundtrack is like 80s rock cheese, probably Frank Stallone or whatever, it's so bad.

And the homoeroticism, my goodness, if you like oily muscle hugs this is for you. Stallone cut an insane amount of body fat for this and also got plastic surgery (this is lampshaded in the movie by a comment from Paulie).

The worst part honestly is how Adrian really becomes a nothing. She is actually so important in the first two movies, their love story is the story of the movies not the boxing. In 3 she's like "no Rocky please don't punch, ok nah j/k go punch lulz" and then Rocky can run on the beach and sexy slo-mo hug Creed. So dumb lol.
It did allow Mr. T a chance to be funny: At an award show on which he was giving out a trophy, as he got on stage, they played "Eye of the Tiger", the best thing about Rocky 3 and when he got to the mike he said, "Every time I hear that song I want to punch somebody."