I have objections to her goals, not her methods. That is all.
As for the media bit, it's just what feminists sometimes do, they complain to the mainstream media who write hit pieces on gamers.
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Your video game hot take(s) thread
- Thread starter Dany_the_penguin
- Start date
As for the media bit, it's just what feminists sometimes do, they complain to the mainstream media who write hit pieces on gamers.
She...didn't state any goals, is the thing. She didn't go to the media, which you're complaining about anyway. She was just complaining about a thing she didn't like
Been seeing a lot of Last of Us 2 videos on my feed lately. Kind of a shame that such a great looking combat system is stuck in such a dreary, soul sucking game. Not saying that TLOU 2 is bad or anything, I personally have no real investment in the story or characters, but I just don't see myself playing through such a downer game, even if I think the combat looks really fun.
Any game that goes out of its way to prove The Joker, Junko Enoshima, Johan Liebert, Makoto Shishio, or the cast of Black Lagoon right is on my automatic shit list and not worth playing. TLOU2 is a glorified snuff game as far as I am concerned. It's ironic how games like Manhunt and Mad World even knew their limits. For further irony, they have more humanity than even TLOU2. Mad World especially.
Was tempted when The Last of Us, Part II was 20 dollars for a few weeks late last year, but I decided to wait until it was even cheaper. I didn't even find the original good and I don't like the director. The Lost Legacy being better than Uncharted 4 tells me he should be removed.
I liked the first game but I have no urge to play the 2nd due to just how fucking miserable it comes across(not to mention the big structural storytelling problem) so I can't blame you at all there.
Other than a couple brutal scenes (ie Abby going fore! on Joel and Ellie being a dumb dumb) there’s really not much to be bothered by in this game. I’d recommend it simply based on the quality and occasional intensity of the general gameplay, as well as Abby’s half story-wise (although Ellie’s had its moments, albeit mostly in flashbacks). It’s long and slow to get going, but at least wound up worth a playthrough IMO. I also started a NG+ on Grounded.
The problem is the game was preloaded with so much social media baggage bs from the onset that it didn’t deserve. Overall I enjoyed it more than the original, but mostly due to the gameplay improvements and better set piece encounters with the infected.
@Casual Shinji might want to share his thoughts too as he’s probably the most well-versed on the game ‘round these parts.
Short version:
- The Joker is all about nihilism, and his "all takes is one bad day" demeanor. Johan is of a similar way, and feels he and everyone are bastards to each other, and everything is pointless. Ditto for the Lagoon crew. The world of TLOUS 2 "validates" what most of the cast considers right in their fucked up view.
- Junko Enoishma is also a form of nihilism, except it's about causing and inflicting despair. She likes seeing pain, misery, or causing despair and crushing hope. She loves despair on herself as well. If she witnessed everything that happened, it would validate her philosophy of that hope is pointless and boring. That despair is the only "true" way to live.
- Makoto Shihshio is all about survival of the fittest. TLOUS 2 provides all of the examples he needs. He wants a world where the strong dominate the weak. That is all.
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I’m really not familiar with much of those examples besides The Joker, but TLoU2 having a post-apocalyptic setting kinda lends itself to despair at least in a general sense. There’s a religious cult to deal with along the way too, but it’s kind of beside the point of the major themes. If it has a redeeming thread in the narrative it would belong to Abby’s character arc, as it had more potency than anything found in the original game imo. I think people became too emotionally attached to Joel, disregarding the fact he was as much if not more of a cold-blooded killer, however justified he thought he was. The social media shit storm from the leak didn’t do it any favors.
How well the game was able to convey its themes is up for debate of course, but as a spectator/player I didn’t come out of it with any personal feelings of remorse or disgust.
The problem is that it all feels to hollow and definitely unearned. Fuck Abby! Keep in mind, I am not much of a fan of Joel either. I said this from the very beginning, and I still stand by it: TLOUS 2 should have used completely new characters, but in a different area of apocalypse.
Yep. But I like said before, too many of the characters are assholes. Either blinded by revenge, self-righteousness, both, or are just plain evil killers.
True.
Mine was complete depression and boredom. Boredom, because the gaming sphere already did "Revenge is bad/Cycle of violence" so much better during the 6th generation and 7th generation of consoles. Hell, Ghost of Tsushima got this right several times in its side quests for certain characters.TLOUS 2 may have great graphics, animations, and improved gameplay, but story and character wise, it's stuck in the worst parts of gaming circa 2008-2013.
Another thing I'll give credit to DmC is soundtrack variety for regular stages or missions that don't have boss battles. Though boss battle music is in the weakest department for the franchise as a whole. The only other problems with the soundtrack is that almost none of the songs would fit OG Dante. Most of them would fit Nero fine though. The second problem being that the soundtrack got dated super fast and sets itself in the early 2010s.
Also, there is a hidden mechanic that is never brought back (sorta) in DMC5. You see, DINO has an advantage where the better your style meter, the faster he gets. The better you play, the faster you can pull of and dodge attacks. In turn, enemies get more agrressive and attack more often. This never brought back in the fashion you think, but was applied to Vergil's concentration gauge in DMC4: SE and DMC5. The difference being is that Vergil's C-gauge is very exploitable; especially in DMC4:SE.
Also, there is a hidden mechanic that is never brought back (sorta) in DMC5. You see, DINO has an advantage where the better your style meter, the faster he gets. The better you play, the faster you can pull of and dodge attacks. In turn, enemies get more agrressive and attack more often. This never brought back in the fashion you think, but was applied to Vergil's concentration gauge in DMC4: SE and DMC5. The difference being is that Vergil's C-gauge is very exploitable; especially in DMC4:SE.
To explain furthrer, SOR4: has an advantage over all these in either pacing, content, or replayability. The TakeOver does not have much content other than a few challenge and survival modes. It was a one man project, so that's understandable. Fight N' Rage has a lot of unlockable content in terms of costumes and colors swaps, but has some bad pacing. The last few levels drag on for far too long and there a few lousy checkpoints. RCG's rpg-brawler hybrid I was never fan of it nor the franchises way of doing things. It works, but it's not my thing. The other problem that you have a few gimmick bosses varies in success, but they seem out of place. One boss fight like a cross between Mega Man, Touhou, and SHMUP. Different, but frustrating and tedious. Because of that point, you're just waiting out and dodging bullet hell bullets just to combo the boss that's gonna float in the air half the time. Hopefully the sequel never does something like that again. The only advantage all of these games have over SOR4 is that there is a universal run or dash.
I guess my hot take now after catching up a bit here is that The Last of Us 2 is a fantastic game, lol.
I mean... all this crap about the story, characters... it's too much. It's freaking GAME. When I played it, I experienced the same kind of creepy vibes, stealth/action/survivial and awesome cinematic graphics as the first one.
Granted that zombie survival horror is not my favorite genre and I only played the first one because it looked cool and was so beloved. I liked it, so I played the sequel, it's just that simple.
The gameplay, mechanics and visuals in TLOU2 are freaking awesome and fluid and fun. Abby was fun to play as and that whole part where you're climbinb up and up and up that building and going across was one of the most intense, immersive gameplay experiences I ever had, it was so cool.
I mean... all this crap about the story, characters... it's too much. It's freaking GAME. When I played it, I experienced the same kind of creepy vibes, stealth/action/survivial and awesome cinematic graphics as the first one.
Granted that zombie survival horror is not my favorite genre and I only played the first one because it looked cool and was so beloved. I liked it, so I played the sequel, it's just that simple.
The gameplay, mechanics and visuals in TLOU2 are freaking awesome and fluid and fun. Abby was fun to play as and that whole part where you're climbinb up and up and up that building and going across was one of the most intense, immersive gameplay experiences I ever had, it was so cool.
And here's my other hot take for now- games that focus purely on "story" are BBBOOOORRRRRIIINNNNGGG
I love movies. I love to read. I like mythology, folk tales, plays, and TV shows with coherent serialized stories.
And the video games I prefer do have some narrative element holding it together.
But games are... games. I want to play. And no game will ever tell a real story as satisfying as a good book or movie, because they're focusing on different things, and that's fine.
I'm looking at the love and praise for things like Disco Elysium and Outer Wilds and they are all about the story. No, I haven't tried them, so that's why this is a "hot" take not a "smart" take *shrugs"
I just can't fathom why anyone would want to play a game in order to read a bunch of text. I'm not talking about incidental text or in-game lore like all the books and stuff you find in RPG's, which are optional. I'm talking about DE and OW where reading seems like the core gameplay.
In fact I think part of the reason these games end up on critics' lists and favorites is because they're caught between dedicating their lives to what was and may still be seen as a child's activity and their need to justify it with some adult criticism. So games with "choice" and "themes" and all that stuff is more interesting to write and think about than games that are just fun.
Yeah this post is inspired by the fact that there is yet another argument about The Last of Us 2. It became a conversation like some goddamn Politico article. Lame.
I love movies. I love to read. I like mythology, folk tales, plays, and TV shows with coherent serialized stories.
And the video games I prefer do have some narrative element holding it together.
But games are... games. I want to play. And no game will ever tell a real story as satisfying as a good book or movie, because they're focusing on different things, and that's fine.
I'm looking at the love and praise for things like Disco Elysium and Outer Wilds and they are all about the story. No, I haven't tried them, so that's why this is a "hot" take not a "smart" take *shrugs"
I just can't fathom why anyone would want to play a game in order to read a bunch of text. I'm not talking about incidental text or in-game lore like all the books and stuff you find in RPG's, which are optional. I'm talking about DE and OW where reading seems like the core gameplay.
In fact I think part of the reason these games end up on critics' lists and favorites is because they're caught between dedicating their lives to what was and may still be seen as a child's activity and their need to justify it with some adult criticism. So games with "choice" and "themes" and all that stuff is more interesting to write and think about than games that are just fun.
Yeah this post is inspired by the fact that there is yet another argument about The Last of Us 2. It became a conversation like some goddamn Politico article. Lame.
Shoot, I've been saying the same thing since the mid-2010s. I have a somewhat disagreement. There are games with good or great stories, but they usually have good or great game play. Which is what I prefer. If the story is not good or not as good as it can be, as long as the game plays great, then I'm not too bothered. Either that, you better have fun or great characters. Though many games still falter with their stories. The indie games are usually better about this, but they have their moments not doing great either.
A lot of these critics are insecure about what they review for the need to overcompensate or try to make something deeper than it actually is. It's like they're trying to attract people who don't like video games or look down on them. A lot of these critics fail to realize, that people like that almost never want to get into gaming or have nothing but hatred or disdain for the hobby. The sooner they realize that, the better.
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I think classifying Junko Enoshima as nihilistic is inaccurate (she is absolutely crazy, but not nihilistic). Nihilism is the pursue of nothingness, pursuing despair is pursuing something (something awful, but it's still different to nothing). There is a clear difference between "nothing matters" and "nothing matters but X". For her, hope isn't pointless; hope is something she exploits to cause despair. For her, hope is only useless when she can't use it to cause despair.
Bottomline: Junko cares too much about her goals to be considered nihilistic (and that's my hot take of the day).
I've heard this argument, but I still disagree with it. It may not be complete nihilism, but it is still just a sub category of nihilism. Nihilism with extra steps. That's the thing with her, Junko only cares about hope to crush it, otherwise she wouldn't bother with it. And it still counts because all she's doing is destroying hope to show how pointless and useless it is.
However Nihilism is defined in part for the destruction of higher values. Junko wants to replace higher values (replace hope with despair), not to destroy them. The other part that defines nihilism is the opposition to the affirmation of one's existence. Junko affirms her existence as the result of the world yearning for despair (it's a cyclical affirmation, but an affirmation nonetheless). If your stance is that nihilism is defined just by the rejection of hope; then we will have to agree to disagree.
I got all that the first time around when I watched a playthrough of the game. It still counts regardless of whatever you think. All I'm saying is just an affirmation of nihilism, so albeit not complete nihilism. If you think otherwise, I personally don't care. It's argument I've always disagreed with, and I'll disagree with it till the end of time.
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But if it takes her destroying hope to do so, then clearly it was worthwhile and useful before she got in the way. Perhaps the more tactical way forward in that world would be to simply remove her from the equation.