YouTube Issued Copyright Claims Against Miracle of Sound

talideon

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Mar 18, 2011
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The truly screwed up thing about this is that is makes a system meant to be method to prevent theft and piracy of copyrighted material is effectively a mechanism for theft of people's just earnings!

If Google were going to implement this, they should've implemented an earnings escrow system to prevent any loss of income on the part of those unjustly flagged so that people wouldn't lose income before their counterclaim could be filed and processed.
 

wulf3n

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Mar 12, 2012
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Strazdas said:
wulf3n said:
The solution to the problem has to start with us not Google.
No. The solution is to make what google is doing - illegal. If we just move to another website the story will just repeat itself.
Most of what's happened probably is to some extent, I know it's illegal to have a monopoly. While Google aren't technically a monopoly they are for all intents and purposes. But that still hasn't affected them.

The idea wasn't for everyone to move to a single site, but for the majority of people to move to many sites, so that no one site has all the content.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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wulf3n said:
Strazdas said:
wulf3n said:
The solution to the problem has to start with us not Google.
No. The solution is to make what google is doing - illegal. If we just move to another website the story will just repeat itself.
Most of what's happened probably is to some extent, I know it's illegal to have a monopoly. While Google aren't technically a monopoly they are for all intents and purposes. But that still hasn't affected them.

The idea wasn't for everyone to move to a single site, but for the majority of people to move to many sites, so that no one site has all the content.
Wont work either way. Google is not technically a monopoly (just look at Bings usage stats and you will see that google isnt the internet really). And few smaller sites wont help any. As technology progresses it will be easier and easier to put bots like these in, and our current laws not only allows, they ENCOURAGE this behaviuor. There were sites that didnt do this, for example megaupload. Im sure i dont need to tell you how that ended up.
 

GladiatorUA

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Jun 1, 2013
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There is a tiny problem with this whole "ContentID is evil" thing.

The rights holders for content that is submitted into ContentID database have a choice of response to a match. Including a simple notification for actual manual review. They don't have to claim monetization or remove matched content. They just choose the option.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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GladiatorUA said:
There is a tiny problem with this whole "ContentID is evil" thing.

The rights holders for content that is submitted into ContentID database have a choice of response to a match. Including a simple notification for actual manual review. They don't have to claim monetization or remove matched content. They just choose the option.
Any snake that bites its own tail doesn't know what the hell it's doing. When your system is both harming folks AND dumb enough to pull this on the actual owners of said content, it's a'broken so clearly that it's not even funny.
 

Blaze the Dragon

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Jan 8, 2010
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Mabster said:
Dr.Awkward said:
I don't think Google realizes yet that, even though it might be expensive, actual people would have better judgement and common sense in situations like this regardless how complex a content scanner can be coded.
According to Google's statistics "100 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute" and "Content ID scans over 400 years of video every day."

Content ID needs to be an automated system and Google needs to protect itself from another Viacom situation, but the current state of things is obviously unfair and hostile to the content creators. Let's hope that something positive comes our of this whole mess.
That's why most people want a system that mixes an automated system and a human one. Content ID may scan that much in a day, but the amount that actually gets flagged is presumably a significantly smaller percentage. (although obviously not small enough) And given Google's resources, I think they can pay a thousand people to watch Youtube videos all day long and brief them on basic fair use policy. They don't exactly need to be lawyers, just intelligent enough to recognize that 15 seconds of parody in a 30 minute video doesn't warrant giving all the revenue of the video to the song owner. Just to weed out the more idiotic claims and the claims by companies that don't actually own the content.

I believe there's two parts to the solution of this problem:

First, get rid of this asinine "guilty until proven innocent" system. Currently all revenue the video makes as soon as the claim is made and during the entire appeals process is awarded to the party making the claim with no questions asked. This obviously leads to false parties making claims, as well as proper content owners making claims for content protected under fair use, all to make a quick buck, even if the appeal goes through and gives all the rights back to the video owner. This process can be drawn out for over two months without risk and during which time 100% of the money goes away from the guy who made the video, and I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure that the first 2 months constitutes a vast majority of the views a video will receive. The clear solution here is to store the money the video makes until the claim is confirmed or appealed, providing the money to the winner of the dispute after it's completed.

Secondly, and this may be more related to copyright law itself more than YouTube policy, how is it right to give 100% of the money a video makes to the owner of content that consists of only 1% of the video. Using Angry Joe's example, and assuming that the song clip was not protected under fair use, lets examine this. He posted a review on Skyrim that was 30min long, and at one point parodies a song for 15 seconds. This song parody comprises less than 1% of the video, yet this policy suggests that the owner of this song deserves 100% of the video's revenue. Now, like I said this parody would be protected under fair use, but lets ignore that for now. For all intents and purposes, this video may as well have been uploaded by the owner of the song, after all, they're the ones making 100% of the money from it. But if we view it from that perspective, then aren't they making money from a property that is 99% not their work, and is the work of another person that is getting 0% of the credit. A far bigger crime in at least my book. Had the song company uploaded the video instead, it would be tagged for Joe and he would be given all the money from it. This is clearly paradoxical reasoning. The solution however is not so simple to see. The simplest thing to do would be to take down the video, requesting him to re-upload it without the infringing material, or to fine him for the rights to use the song. Another might be to simply give the song company, and thus any other claim holder, only a percentage of the profits equal to the percentage of the video that uses the claimer's material. It's unfair to me that just because a person used another's work, that the second person now gets credit for the 1st person's work; this is only punishing the crime by allowing another to commit it.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm a lawyer or that I completely understand the situation, but these solutions need to at least be directly addressed by YouTube & Google. Perhaps the first solution lends to the second. If all the money is stored until an agreement is reached, then a simple option would be to allow the parties to come to an agreement between the video owner and the claimer in terms of the what percentage is given to the claimer, if applicable. If an agreement can't be reached, then maybe just actually take it to court?
 

GladiatorUA

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Jun 1, 2013
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FalloutJack said:
Any snake that bites its own tail doesn't know what the hell it's doing. When your system is both harming folks AND dumb enough to pull this on the actual owners of said content, it's a'broken so clearly that it's not even funny.
But youtube wasn't the one who claimed those videos. Indmusic claimed them. They have added them into the database and chose what to do with matches.

It's ironic that the response of masses to any issue is almost identical to ContentID's. The difference is, the ContentID is a robot, and is expected to be so dumb.

There are ways to deal with current problems without these stupid temper tantrums, but any rational ideas are being drowned in this retarded public crusade against "evil".

The simplest way to fix most of current problems in monetization is for youtube to hold ad revenue in escrow until all of the claims and disputes over a piece of content are resolved. A simple solution and no one gets hurt.

Some kind of third party arbitrage would also be good.

But no. We have to burn the evil contentid and everything it stands for.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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GladiatorUA said:
Well no, that's where you're wrong. These robots are expected to work right, because the people programming them aren't suppose to be asshanded morons. What is stands for is "We don't know what the hell we're doing.", and that's just not gonna cut it. Burn it? Hell, the effigy's been on standby for much longer than this. This is the breaking of the camel's back, my friend. It's not retarded and it's not stupid. It's a bunch of people tired of it and they just won't have it anymore, and I don't blame them. You're not gonna get anywhere calling names, nor is your reason for doing so justified.
 

GladiatorUA

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FalloutJack said:
Well no, that's where you're wrong. These robots are expected to work right, because the people programming them aren't suppose to be asshanded morons. What is stands for is "We don't know what the hell we're doing.", and that's just not gonna cut it. Burn it? Hell, the effigy's been on standby for much longer than this. This is the breaking of the camel's back, my friend. It's not retarded and it's not stupid. It's a bunch of people tired of it and they just won't have it anymore, and I don't blame them. You're not gonna get anywhere calling names, nor is your reason for doing so justified.
It is very annoying when people are so vocal about issues they know almost nothing about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slgldWAsB0M - here is a view on the situation from a person who does know what's going on. It would be nice if people did some research before picking up pitchforks.

The robot works withing the parameters given to it. And those parameters are directly influenced by content rights holders.

Vocal "people" who don't do their research are useless and harmful.
 

Silvershock

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Jul 12, 2013
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8bitmaster said:
TheMadJack said:
Hey internet! We're still waiting for the next-gen YouTube! Get to it!
You're part of the internet, you can always begin the work! Let's start with a name.... I got it! UsTube!
How about NewTube? I'm a developer with access to some hosting space to get us started? Who fancies a bash at it?
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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GladiatorUA said:
Well, let's see... Aside from making a bad assumption about people, you've completely ignored the relevent points I've been making AND insulted just about everyone. Probably not the best way to try and prove a point. They're not being stupid and ignorant. They DO know. They just don't agree with your opinion.
 

EHKOS

Madness to my Methods
Feb 28, 2010
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This is weird because I take legit music from huge artists, basically lay them on a slab and cut into them like Doctor Stienman, and then post them. I haven't received any claims.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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Someone needs to sue YouTube/Google for copyright infringement.

At the end of the day, that's what this is. YouTube is infringing on the copyrights of people like Gavin with their stupid automated system that doesn't care about who actually owns the content or the context in which the content is being used (for example, is that gameplay footage a let's play which is legally iffy or a review which is firmly covered under fair use and not a copyright infringement?). It just flags the video and immediately rips ownership away from the creator and hands it off to some big corporation for them to do with it as they please. And then there's nothing stopping these companies from saying "nope, fuck you, it's ours now" when you file an appeal even if your appeal is legit.

YouTube did this garbage because people were uploading copyrighted stuff and the copyright holders were going to YouTube and saying "Hey, it's your site, you let them upload this and that makes you responsible." and YouTube didn't want to get sued by those copyright holders. But their response to being indirectly involved with copyright infringement is to become more directly involved with copyright infringement by taking video and ad rights away from the content creators? No. Fuck that. Content creators need to do exactly what YouTube was hoping to avoid with this utterly broken content ID system and sue YouTube for copyright infringement. It's the only way YouTube is going to wake up and realize that their Content ID system is flawed to the point of being broken. Right now they are sitting on their asses saying "nope it works as intended, all the matches are legit" because they think they can get away with ignoring all the problems now that the big corporations are off their backs. They need to be threatened, this time by the content creators they are screwing over, to see that they need to go back to the drawing board and try again.

Also I would just to send out a special "fuck you" to all the MCNs like Full Screen that didn't do their job properly and begged YouTube to help them out. If you were doing your job as the MCN properly, which is making sure the channels you bring in weren't violating copyrights, you wouldn't have had to ask YouTube to do the job you existed to do and we wouldn't have this problem right now.

GladiatorUA said:
FalloutJack said:
Well no, that's where you're wrong. These robots are expected to work right, because the people programming them aren't suppose to be asshanded morons. What is stands for is "We don't know what the hell we're doing.", and that's just not gonna cut it. Burn it? Hell, the effigy's been on standby for much longer than this. This is the breaking of the camel's back, my friend. It's not retarded and it's not stupid. It's a bunch of people tired of it and they just won't have it anymore, and I don't blame them. You're not gonna get anywhere calling names, nor is your reason for doing so justified.
It is very annoying when people are so vocal about issues they know almost nothing about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slgldWAsB0M - here is a view on the situation from a person who does know what's going on. It would be nice if people did some research before picking up pitchforks.

The robot works withing the parameters given to it. And those parameters are directly influenced by content rights holders.

Vocal "people" who don't do their research are useless and harmful.
The irony of you claiming that the parameters are directly influenced by content right holders in the comment section of an article about a content right holder who had his content marked as stolen from himself is astounding. I'm sure Gavin totally told YouTube's broken Content ID robot to make sure he doesn't steal videos from himself, because as you said, the parameters are directly influenced by content right holders.

I also find it odd that you say vocal people who don't do their research are useless and harmful, and yet you keep talking BS on the comments section of an article you clearly didn't read anyway.
 

Upbeat Zombie

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Jun 29, 2010
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Either Youtube needs a major over hall. Or a replacement video service needs to start pushing for its spot. Cause at this rate Youtube is just gonna crush itself and many of those involved with it.