YouTuber Angry Joe Says He's Done Reviewing Nintendo Games

[Therumancer]

The point I'm sort of getting at is that if Joe is going to let Nintendo lay down the law he might as well be a good little lap dog about it. Spouting off righteous indignation as you do exactly what someone else tells you to do is kind of ridiculous. He's basically trying to retain dignity and still seem like a rebel while he's very much in the herd with the other sheep. To me this makes him a hippocrite given his entire persona which has lead to his success. Nintendo lays down the law and says "comply or quit" and he chooses one of those options and quits

I agree. Angry Joe is such a sellout for not taking the 3rd option, known as 'full Snowden', that you allude to in your previous post.

It's hard to understand what point you're trying to make here. Rolling over for Nintendo would have been agreeing to their demands of 40%, leaving the video up, and continuing to cover their other titles. Instead, he forfeited the potential earnings, took the video down, and vowed not to bother with their games going forward. I can't imagine how you interpret this as being Nintendo's *****. Even if the principle he's actually defending is "I want all the money" instead of the more noble "this is a bad precedent for youtubers", at least he's standing up for it.

It's indeed cringeworthy watching Joe go through another copyright related rant video where it looks like he's going to burst into tears any second. However, I disagree with those who say uploading the video was a stupid decision or, even worse, naked attention whoring. Sometimes you have to go through the motions of inevitable failure just to move the debate forward. Kind of like getting arrested at a protest - a predictable outcome but nevertheless mandatory for street cred. A couple million subscribers plus the support generated on gaming news sites (that he knew would cover the ensuing shitstorm) might have been enough to whip up a serious backlash against Nintendo. Unfortunately, the result is clear: most gamers are either so apathetic about copyright abuse that they just can't be arsed to care, or they're so far up on big N's ballsack that they're more inclined to defend them.

Rolling over is when someone gives you two options like that, "Do what we say, or quit so we don't have to deal with you" and you take one of those two options either backing down out of fear or doing what they say out of fear. Not rolling over is making a third option which you take that is in your interests instead of theirs. Joe is pretty much taking the safe and easy path and saying "Yessir, can I have another?" as he backs down and chooses to not cover Nintendo products as opposed to giving them a 40% cut and the ability to dictate what he can talk about (wise, since it's doubtful Nintendo accounts for 40% of his revenue). Indeed given the extent of Nintendo's demands it seems their real point was "stop covering our stuff" but they wanted to try and make it look like they were giving an option for PR purposes.

Nintendo just gagged Joe, and he let it happen willingly, so really ranting about it at this point strikes me as being a bit hypocritical. It's pretty much saying "hey, I'm the same fearless, irreverent, Angry Joe you've been following" when really he's not, and he simply cannot be as long as he allows the industry he's one of the watchdogs on dictate terms to him. It's like if Consumer Reports agreed to only publish what company PR departments wanted them to, or refused to say tell you when products were dangerous because those making the dangerous products told them to stop while keeping them on the market. "General Motors release a car 96% likely to explode in a fireball and kill everyone in a 40' radius with flying shrapnel, within 4 weeks of operation due to fundamental design flaws in the fuel system, but we're not going to cover this because either we have to do what he PR department says, and only review the cars they want us to talk about, OR not cover their products at all". Okay granted that is extreme, but it should convey my point. Guys like Angry Joe are still sort of one of the buffers between the users (despite Nintendo's rabid fan base) and the companies and despite his alleged dedication he's going to allow himself to be shut out, yet continue to act like he's the rabid pit bull of an angry consumer culture that made him popular.

I guess what I'm saying is that he should either go "Full Snowden" as you put it, or just flat out retire at this point. If he allows this to stand he's not "Angry Joe" anymore and shouldn't continue to present himself as something he is not because he's lying to both himself and his viewers. It's fine to complain about Nintendo making the policies, but to keep doing your show while complying and pretending nothing happened? To me that smacks of deception.

Of course there is a bigger issue at stake here, if the corporate culture can get Angry Joe, they can in theory get anyone else, since he rolled over so easily, it just means they are going to keep pushing. It can be argued this is the first big name domino (at least as far as I know) in a chain that can very well bring down this entire form of much needed criticism. Those who survive are going to simply be liars who play a role but ultimately answer to corporate overlords on anything they still bother to cover since anything being covered is something they needed permission to handle. One can say "well it's only Nintendo" but really, that's not where this is going, if they did it, anyone can do it, and apparently guys like Joe aren't going to fight back and ride it down until they are eventually shut down one company at a time.

 

[Falling_v1legacy]

@Theramancer

I'm not really sure that what your advocating that Joe do does anything more than what he's doing. He's supposed to leave his current platform and critique anonymously, hiding in the shadows? Who is exactly is going to pay attention to wherever he vanishes to (unless he's trying to pull a Who is John Galt?) The internet is a vast place, and if you just vanish and critique from the shadows, there's no guarantee your message against Nintendo is going to have any views at all, never mind have an actual effect on Nintendo.

What he is doing now is using his current platform to shake a finger or a fist at Nintendo and give them a cold shoulder. I think that is far more effective and not hypocritical at all.

 

[gamegod25]

Someone like "Angry Joe" finds it more in their interest to back down and keep making money from other things than to seriously fight.

Uhh and just how else exactly is he supposed to "fight" back? It's not like he can take legal action since, while a shitty thing to do, Nintendo does have the legal right deny using their content. All Joe can do is either take a hit and surrender part of the video revenue (and/or effectively work for Nintendo) or to boycott the games entirely. He can raise awareness and call Nintendo out for it (which he and others have already done) but that's pretty much all that can be done about it. I suppose they could makes signs and protest outside of NOA or something but I doubt that would be any more effective.

*snip*

haha wow I wasn't expecting a rambling wall of text this morning. Anyway I think I get the gist of it.

Sure he could do all that but as you admitted it would be very extreme to say the least. The question is doing all that shit really worth the trouble? Would going through all those hoops and bullshit be worth it just to get around Nintendo's policies? Probably not. Call it taking the easy way out but I say it's the most practical way. Doing it your way would just make things tougher for Joe and do nothing to Nintendo to change their minds.

The point I'm sort of getting at is that if Joe is going to let Nintendo lay down the law he might as well be a good little lap dog about it. Spouting off righteous indignation as you do exactly what someone else tells you to do is kind of ridiculous. He's basically trying to retain dignity and still seem like a rebel while he's very much in the herd with the other sheep. To me this makes him a hippocrite given his entire persona which has lead to his success. Nintendo lays down the law and says "comply or quit" and he chooses one of those options and quits.... that's fine, but if he's doing that he can drop the pretensions and be blunt that he's not a rebel and doesn't believe what he's saying enough to actually do anything, he's going to fall into line to protect the cushy little corner he's built as long as possible.

I guess what I'm saying is if your a former loudmouthed independent who makes their bones by sticking it to some form of establishment, and then you sell out completely, the least you can do is be honest about selling out, instead of insulting everyone by trying to present yourself as something you no longer are.

Can Angry Joe back down here and still be Angry Joe? The man whose famously unbridled rage only applies as long as it's not a Nintendo product due to fear of corporate retaliation and possible loss of revenue.... which means it's not unbridled rage anymore and he's not an unpredictable loose cannon, he's working within some pretty clearly defined boundaries someone else put there. He can't be the angry voice of opposition towards a game industry when he allows the very force he's supposed to be angry at (so to speak) to dictate what he can and will do. If he's going to sell out he should admit it, I don't know, change his name to "Joe who is mildly annoyed, but only so long as nobody threatens him".

Guess the difference is I don't see it backing down, just taking the best possible path. To me being a "good little lapdog" would be joining their program and being told what he can and can't produce. Even if he didn't sign up and just surrendered part of the revenue I could see that as selling out. Even if he went all "underground rebel" with his videos to "stick it to Nintendo" they aren't going to give any more of a fuck. All Nintendo did was see big names like Joe as easy targets to shake down for a part of their revenue, thinking they would just roll over and do it without a fight. The best youtubers like Joe can do is refuse to give them that money (even if it means not covering their gamesat all) and spread the word how bullshit it is.

I look at it like when buying games, if a game/company does something you don't like the only recourse you have is to vote with your wallet and not give them your money.

 

[Hyrist]

Outsider looking in, admitting low awareness level on the topic.

But surface level high discussion here - I don't think its inherantly wrong for the publishers to gain some revenue over content that's being created using content that they created/published.

To me, its as if someone read a book aloud on you tube, and then commentated at parts. They didn't write the book. Sure, it's their voice, it's 'free advertising' but it's also their content, right out in open. Sure, the person watching does not get to hold the book in their hands and turn the pages themselves, but the content of the book is exposed in its full in front of them - enabling the viewer to not have to purchase the book if they decide, hey, it's not enough.

The Publisher gets nothing but the inital purchase, the creator gets nothing. This guy reading a book and interjecting his opinion on it gets money that could have gone into an initial purchase. I see the problem from the Company's standpoint.

That said, content creators on You Tube, especially let's players, should have some means of having a stronger overall representation. Some way to jointly haggle for the Publisher's cut of content. Nintendo just arbitrarily choosing their own just... doesn't feel right.

Can't talk one way or another about Angry Joe. He's got a right to what he says, he's got notoriety to be covered on gaming news. That said, I'm not a fan of his advertising style. Too... 90's grunge. I don't meant to insult, but he just... he doesn't resonate with me. Like I'm putting my hand in a package of cold slimy hot dogs... I donno. It's a weird sensation.

 

[Havokchomp123]

I'm with joe on this one. Granted, I wouldn't go so far as to call Nintendo "greedy" or "f#@$ing idiots," but I think that Nintendo needs to stop with these policies. The worst part about it is that they are hurting themselves. If Nintendo removed their copyright policies, more people would talk about Nintendo games. If any of you have seen the game theorists video about what gamers want, you'll know what I'm talking about. Basically, youtube acts as free marketing for Nintendo and their games. If Popular youtuber's such as Pewdiepie and Angry joe, did more videos about Nintendo, then people would be more interested in buying Nintendo's games.

One common argument that I've heard about copyright policies on videogames (this doesn't just apply to Nintendo) is that posting gameplay for a certain game is just like posting a full length movie or an episode of a TV show to the internet. I can see how they drawed to that conclusion, but I think there argument is uder garbage. Film's and TV show's don't change and there an art form that is meant to be "viewed." It doesn't matter if I see it on Netflix, the theater, On cable, or on youtube because I'm seeing the show/film. It hasn't changed. Games, however, do change and are meant to be played. I could watch someone play a game, but it's better for me to play that game for myself, especially if the game looks really good. Now, as for posting soundtracks of a game is a debate for another day, but I think that this argument is a very poor one.

I wish Nintendo would stop with their policies, it's just getting old at this point.

 

[Rozalia1]

I'm sure Nintendo will be fine hearing that a smark isn't going to reviewing their matches on the internet.
People really think this will lower Nintendo's profile, really? Nintendo has been main eventing for decades and their current time in the mid card is not proof of anything. Nintendo spends time there now and than to be fresh when they get inserted into the main event again, simple.

Of course this could be little movements to show sign of a heel turn... which would be money as nobody in this business can heel it up like Nintendo.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Angry Joe is neither fun nor interesting

To you, Fun nor interesting to you.


Jeez, people hate-on for Angry Joe is more annoying than they think he is.

Saying that even Joe should have followed their rules (he's an overall smart guy) or at the very least let the money slide (but that's the equivalent of working for free, so no) but the fact is Nintendo's rules are stupid. I agree Nintendo has right to do what they do but I don't agree with them doing it.
Why is everyone defending rights like every right by the virtue of the word is "good" or "well intentioned"? That's a lazy way to think.

Oh, I know this is a monetization issue rather than copyright however both are unreasonable or at least dickish (in what is considered "copyright" and claiming more around 40% of an interactive experience already paid for, maybe overly broad).

 

[Rozalia1]

Little things lower profiles...
Little by little. They seem to be falling in the mind of an average person.

Subjectively, of coarse (no statistics) I have noticed the Nintendos profile in my homeland is steadily getting weaker among the average gamer. They used to be popular and held as an elite developer. Now they are second rate... in both games and hardware.

... If I understood you correctly that is... I often cant...

Nintendo is "synonymous" with gaming. The first ever Undisputed champion of the World, multi time World championship holder, multi time United States championship holder, multi time Japanese championship holder, multi time European championship holder, receiver of numerous other accolades, and the greatest superstar of this or any era. Such a legend does not just fall out of view... they are remembered for all time. Even if they were to disappear today, 50 years from now anyone who doesn't know of the legendary Nintendo will not be a true fan of the product.

Second rate in hardware is one thing, second rate in games is another. Not only is the matter of games subjective, but the majority opinion outside "smarks" who seemingly hate anything that isn't western/indie is that Nintendo puts out some of the best games of all time.

 

[Rozalia1]

"Nintendo is "synonymous" with gaming. "

Arguable where I live. id is. Rockstar too. Though they USED to have been there too. As a synonym.

Eastern Europe PC Master Race Land is not Japan, nor the US nor Western Europe.

I am not saying for their name to stop being associated with the GOOD they have done. But for it to catch on negative connotations. It has happened before in other spheres. The mightiest have fallen.
There is a reason why even Coca-Cola NEVER stops advertising. And trying to be up with the times...

Also lol @ "smarks"
I see the opposite really. People loving Japanes games and giving Western games bad press.
As for me... well... Eastern Europe is Great Game Land le best

Listen mate your Eastern European indie performers are all very nice and all... but while they can main event there they'd be little more than jobbers in the big leagues.

Plenty of examples prove you wrong there. For example Hulk Hogan is a terrible human being with numerous negative incidents... still held up as a legendary figure and that is all not mentioning the fact that outside of his ability to rile up the crowd (his charisma) he was a pretty poor performer. He could get a bigger reaction posing on a throwaway show than technical wrestlers doing the craziest moves possible got across their career on the biggest stages. Though that is merely an example not a direct comparison as Nintendo actually has really good workrate whatever people on the internet say.

Than you're seeing what you want to see. People giving Western games bad press are a minority, not the majority.

 

[Rozalia1]

So... STALKER and Witcher, Tropico and Metro are jobbers (what is that?)? OK...
I mean... technological masterpieces far beyond ANYTHING Nintendo has ever done...
On smaller budgets at that.

Some games in genres Nintendo has NEVER put out anything in...

Yeah. Of coarse...

I know nothing about wrestlers. Give an example with literature, marketing or something else.

I am seeing "elitists" (how can they be, when they play less complex games then Strategy or Tycoon games I dont understand) or weabos as they are called more then the opposite.

Which is why wrestling is most apt to be used. They can be as technical as they like, they can do every single flippy move out there... and it matters for nothing if they can't draw. Nintendo has more variety of work than them actually and their execution... so smooth.

You don't need to know a single thing about it to understand the point. Its really quite simple.

Than you are simply wrong as anyone who has spent any time on the internet should know the common attacks sent in that direction. Also your games have to be complex to be an elitist? Reminds me of those NJPW marks who think unless you pull out the most dangerous stiff moves around you're not any good. Don't play that game you're trying, it isn't very beautiful.

 

[Rozalia1]

It is not a beautiful game as it is unreasonable. Gaming is an art form. But it is the one you want to play it seems.

Wrestling is not good as I dont understand the lingo. Nor the comparisons. No idea what "draw" is.

Nintendo never has been technologically ambitious. Not for AI, not for graphics nor physics. The comparison is like comparing a T-72M2 to a Leopard 2A7... One is serviceable, the other is a monster.

Variety of work... I dont think a single company, even a big one can match an entire region of the world (with smaller comapnuies). Neither in themes, nor in genres. It is impossible.

New Japan Pro Wrestling???? What???

I am of course refering to you throwing out insults and talk of "better than you" because you play strategy games. First you playing those games don't make you better, secondly I play them myself so...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_professional_wrestling_terms + that command that you have told me you should be explaining to me.

Like I said they can be as technical as they like... matters little. A vanilla midget who do flips is still a vanilla midget.
Nintendo have been selling out arenas for decades, and people will even buy consoles just to see their work.

You mentioned individuals which was what I was responding to. None of those individuals can compare with Nintendo in any category.

Strategy game elitist (which is what you seem to be going for considering your comment), is comparable to believing you got to throw 100 stiff kicks and drop someone on their head 10 times per match for it to be any good. A bit of a stereotype admittedly but its an apt comparison of the gamer subdivision that believes everything has to be super technical for things to be any good... not quite. Simple works just grand.

 

[Rozalia1]

Why not just use standard British English (you are from the UK)? Wont it be easier.

I dont CLAIM to be superior due to playing such games... it is an example. Read it again. And once more. Till you understand what I wrote.

So... the technological prowess, the fact that they push tech forward means so little to you?
Also... midget? There are more people playing World of Tanks at this moment then there are sold Wii U's . One has made non-gamers here (in this region) PLAY games and love games and gaming. The other is ... unknown... in comparison that is for the average 30-40 year old person.
Might be hard for you to take it in of coarse... but... hey...

They sure as hell can. Better games (IMHO) is not a category, it is subjective. But... I dont know, technology, ambitions of given projects, storylines, atmosphere... possibly "fun" factor (subjective)...

I am not going for that. Re-learn your native language . But what extreme social positions do you have that no one is EVER superior to anyone else and can never be "elitist" ???
Also, again, use normal language ... please...
I got nothing.

"I am seeing "elitists" (how can they be, when they play less complex games then Strategy or Tycoon games I dont understand) or weabos as they are called more then the opposite".

Deny it if you like its there.

Its a non factor in the matter we're talking about. In terms of game quality the amount of high flying or flippy moves you can do is simply irrelevant. If your match has no flow and you mechanically go from one high spot to the next than its crap.
Nintendo may not be the flashiest competitor, but they know how to build a match, get the audience into it, and their execution is perfect (unlike many performers these days who are shamelessly sloppy).

Nintendo is bigger than those companies in every way. Those companies will be quickly forgotten about when they retire unlike a true icon. They can develop as many technical moves as they like, won't matter.

No your angle is that I am being elitist or that I am actually part of a majority elitist group (the weabos as you referred to it as). That even if true (in me being an elitist would be incorrect on the majority part).

 

[Rozalia1]

I suggest you do RELEARN certain types of expression. As is right now... you are comically missing the point.

Nintendo's fanbase is actually smaller then World of Tanks's fanbase. By a VERY big margin. Considering WG's ability to lie like a pro with their money and the fact that they have their own bank, skyscraper and fleet of military vehicles AND a space program (a video game developer...) I dare say they might even make more money.

Some of these games are 15 years old and still have competition. Still have their own festivals. Their community content STILL sets records (250 000 unique downloads in a day for a simple mod for a 7 year old game). The books on the games get actual awards and the books the games were based on are classics of their genres
In your strange world probably the Strugatsky's and Andrzej are also unknown...

The entire argument, was that Nintendo is SLOWLY damaging their (earlier) near spotless reputation. That they have no idea what they are doing and that this will bite them years from now.

As I said, there is a reason why companies that can buy Nintendo's collective organs and their family's organs still do advertise. Still try to engage community work. Cause they are smarter in this case.

As for the Weabos, well I try not to enter such .... circles at all.
Once I saw this:
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Anime_vs_Cartoon

And had the bad luck to see some terrible stuff in YT comments... and people like Movie Bob that slobber all over Nintendo... so that shaped my world view.
Did you know there is some unfounded elitism from Western Tank fans AGAINST Russian armor? Now you do... I just hope to God they never get to see how wrong they are...

You're not being completely honest there. I thought Witcher books came out before the games? If so than it isn't comparable to other games that later get books like Halo and the like.

Did I say Nintendo shouldn't advertise? Its good business to do so yes, however they are not so irrelevant like some companies to simply disappear if they were to actually stop be it through no longer advertising or shutting down.

I'm sorry but are you referring to the article itself which I didn't read fully but seems to be trying to be a factual comparison of the two which is perfectly fine... or the facebook comments? If its the comments than you open one hell of a can of worms. I could fetch with little issue youtube comments that'd make "you look bad" by association... the point is pointing at comments is evidence of nothing as you'll have to do better than that to highlight a problem.

I am aware of the whole tank thing actually.

 

[Rozalia1]

Yes they have been 20 years before the games. Wikipedia is your friend mate.
I am not talking ABOUT those books though... is it not OBVIOUS?
Here is a small example:
http://litstalker.ru/index.php?option=com_books&view=books&Itemid=55

It is good bussiness to advertise. As is, the best advertisement money can buy is through YouTube celebrities.

The article itself is dog shit. The one I linked. So are its comments.

I am surprised you are aware of the tank thing.
That would require some unbiased knowledge on tanks... and the way different militaries work.

I don't need to go to wikipedia for something I know and you have yourself told me before.
What awards did those Stalker books get exacttly?

I wouldn't say that. Many types of games do not lend themselves well to lets plays and they don't need youtubers to be featured in reviewers as you know... review sites exist.

Your point? I saw nothing completely outrageous from the little I read, and the comments are facebook comments. I could whip out some comments saying outrageous things whenever you argue something... it'd mean nothing.

Why would I be biased over tanks or military?

 

[Rozalia1]

Science Fiction awards for local or emergent authors.
So such an amount of dedicated, fan-made literature, festivals and generally being a great game whose MODS alone eclipse many other titles... are nothing? Pushing technology in a way it has not been before (or since), creating an entire world, trying to honor one of the worst disasters in human history and some of the greatest works of literature ever made ... is weak ?
I... am speechless...

I dont watch Lets Plays for the games. I dont watch reviews (reasons for that are admittedly, "elitist", no need to go there). The VERY few times I watch Lets Plays... those are of usually VERY skilled players and for games I already play.
But the only reason I even KNOW some of the Wii U games were not due to some ... reviewer... but due to LPers or communities.

FFS, I visit this site and I even LEARNED of a Wii U existing 1 year AFTER it came out... that is shit marketing right there.

I saw, what can best be described, as uninformed gibberish and stupidity. Comparing two equal things and making one come out on top... is an exercise in stupidity IMHO.
I dont even check the comments...

Because MANY people ARE biased. Just the other day I had some stupid British tank fanboy start talking shit about Smoothbore and Rifled cannons...
How stupid the rest of the world is and how glorious British rifled cannons are... and when I requested a source (for example the Chinese weapon tests of 2014) he could produce nothing...
Then he went on to badmouth the American Abrams and said it was destroyed by a T-34-85!!@#$!$*R**???
No source, of coarse, cause his friend who was in the US armed forces told him that... WTF...
And he then said HEAT was an anti-infantry round... I could not recover from that.

We are talking the difference between a superstar and a jobber here. You talk of reputation and who has done "more". Nintendo has not whatever jobber you bring up. There is a saying "He broke 6,000 guitars, and never drew a dime".
I'll actually try to explain this one in the context. Jarrett who that saying is about was a guy who was often given chances to become a main eventer so he was given prominent roles, and in his matches he'd often nail someone with his guitar (which means there is an investment as giving people constant props == money spent)... and no one cared. Don't get it wrong Jarret was a fine mid carder and I actually believe he is actually underrated by some... but the man does not simply have it in him to be the best of the best.

Now in our context here. They can develop 6000 technologies (the guitars), but it matters for all of 0 if they don't draw. In name, in quality, in execution, and longevity Nintendo has them beat no question.
Don't get it wrong they can be good low carders and maybe even a mid carder... but main event? No chance not that there is anything wrong with that. Many of my favourite guys are mid carders and even jobbers.

... What. Like I've not bothered to fully read it because its really not all that important but even though "Vs" is in the title it doesn't seem to actually be a "what is best" article. Its saying differences between western and eastern animation...

I see. I have nothing to do with those people obviously.

 

[Rozalia1]

Due to a thing called "Cold War" these developers I am talking about started existing WAAAAAY after Nintendo.

To make it clearer to you, in the time they have been making games ALONG with Nintendo... eh... you know how my comparison will end.

Wrestling =/= gaming companies. It aint.
Cause by your... strange logic (as I understand it), then Nintendo and all of gaming is just some little side-show. A freak show in comparison to both Literature and the real world.
How dare you even compare classics of Fiction and Fantasy to what a bunch of amateurs working in a circus made?
How dare you compare real events to some try-hard pseudo art form?

Or if its for some surreal show or something... how can you compare Nintendo to Wargaming?
The EU server of WoT alone has more people on it per day then Nintendo's new games will see in their lifetime... and that aint the biggest server. It is not even close, comparing a game that alone compares with Xbox Live and PSN (all of them) to the Wii U and 3DS

You cant compare an entire region of the world to a single entity... that dont work ... and is kinda disrespectful

Now this is ONLY if I follow what I think is your logic.

These companies still exist though. And are newer then Ninty, hence the strange comparisons.

Having a lot of resources and getting humiliated on all technological fronts is not good performance IMO . Nintendo beats only WarGaming in Technology... which is sad...

Differences only a noob that has watched neither would list like that... also, grading ...

I hope not. These morons are a plague... and the Rifled British guns are great... just not the end all be all...

Cold war? Nintendo was founded in 1889... though I don't see what age has to do with it. Sony itself isn't exactly the oldest competitor around yet have been undisputed world champion among many other things. EDIT: Whoops read what you said wrong. Well what I'm saying still stands really. Young or no the likes of Sony (face) were able to go over the than heel Nintendo and win the strap... why can't your mentioned companies? What notable feuds have they even won? I know some of their signature moves but those moves simply aren't the killer moves Nintendo has (not to mention Nintendo has loads of signatures).

I'll have you know that professional wrestling is an artform. Deny it and you open yourself up to people questioning gaming's own artform status. Also I can actually refer to any situation in a wrestling context... its actually quite easy and fun too.

I'm not. I'm comparing individuals while you keep assuming I'm talking of the entitirty all at once. I don't believe any there individually can compare to Nintendo... but than again no one really can in this business. Not a bad thing to be worse than the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

You're stretching so much you're getting a little bit taller each time. World of Tanks gives out tickets to the shows they feature on for free to look more of a draw than they are. They can come back when they can not only only make someone shell out for a expensive ticket, but also for merch that can be worth 10x the cost of the ticket.

 

[Rozalia1]

All these gaming companies in Eastern Europe came to be after the "end" of the Cold War. Fact.
Nintendo started making gaming shit in.

"I'll have you know that professional wrestling is an artform. Deny it and you open yourself up to people questioning gaming's own artform status. Also I can actually refer to any situation in a wrestling context... its actually quite easy and fun too. "

...
You cant be for real?
Is English REALLY your native and only language?
...
I.. cant even... where did I question wrestling's status?

No. Not everything can be examined in a single context. It may be fun (for you, I dont understand you very well) but... uhm... No.

"there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be."

I sure as hell hope not. Cause that is bad news for gaming...
So the equivalent of Homer (as most recent possible literary example I can somewhat associate Nintendo with) ... is the end all be all of gaming?
What? This is INSANE.

"You're stretching so much you're getting a little bit taller each time. World of Tanks gives out tickets to the shows they feature on for free to look more of a draw than they are. "

Doesnt matter. Money and popularity talk. The difference ... is so big it is not even funny.

"I'm not. I'm comparing individuals while you keep assuming I'm talking of the entitirty all at once."

I did not compare individuals. Else I would do Sony or MS vs Nintendo as they are the most applicable contestants.
I talked about a region filled with smaller (on average, WarGaming is an anomaly) developers with insane ambitions whose works carry the spirit of modern or semi-modern but proven literature as their spirit and basis.

"They can come back when they can not only only make someone shell out for a expensive ticket, but also for merch that can be worth 10x the cost of the ticket."

They make people shell out a lot more the Nintendo in the long run. The NA server is their biggest milk cow (sad). And their game... is no lesser then any recent Nintendo game (gameplay-wise, as it has no story duh). With an actual competitive scene and a VERY high skill ceiling .

Why dont you give it a try btw?

How dare you compare real events to some try-hard pseudo art form?

Right there so I'll be expecting an apology for firstly saying that it wasn't one, and secondly for insulting my understanding of the English language.

It was a wrestling reference. Also no I don't think any company will ever dominate on the level Nintendo did.

Again trying to cook the books to fit your agenda. If they were so damn good they wouldn't have to give out free tickets all the time. Nintendo can make people pay for the tickets and far more. That is far better... also popularity is insane? Perhaps in the other direction you're thinking. Nintendo is global mainstream name, to some people gaming is still "a Nintendo"... you can argue that some jobber is more popular but... bloody hell why would someone do that.

You pay to see Nintendo, they give you tickets for free to see them... come on now.

Much too busy I'm afraid. With work, watching my programs, going out, and as much gaming as I can squeeze in... I really can't do much. Currently playing Demon Gaze (my "travel" game) and Bloodborne.

 

[onard]

And right now, LPers COUNT. A lot.
...
I dont pay Nintendo for anything.

You just contradicted yourself, you realize that?

There's countless Nintendo LPs on youtube and other media sites right now, from people who are doing it because they genuinely enjoy the game, and you still refuse to give money to Nintendo. So no, by your own closing statement, LPers count very little, otherwise you would be buying at least some Nintendo stuff by your own reasoning.

So you hate Nintendo with all your guts, we get it. Doesn't matter what their youtube/copyright policy is, you would still make up a reason to rant against them.

Again, Nintendo needs not pay corporate Joe to promote their games, plenty of other youtube channels doing that right now, and they show no signs to want to stop any time soon. Because they aren't corporate "I won't upload a video unless it brings easy money for my pocket" Joe.

EDIT: And as an extra, I'll point out that the most "succesful" games right now seem to be the ones who make massive marketing campaigns before releasing, so they get lots of pre-orders. Aka they sell lots before anyone had a chance to even do a LP, again invalidating your point that LPers matter that much when it comes to selling games.

 

[Rozalia1]

Read AGAIN. AGAIN.
And once more till you understand it. Cause you did not. At all. So try AGAIN.

No insult... but... damn it seems like it is true.

Nintendo is a global name RIGHT NOW and where YOU LIVE. Get it now? They are OK now, but what would the situation be 10 or 20 or 30 years from now?
FFS, you think many people here KNOW what the $%^& a "Nintendo" is? Yet they know what a "WoT" is...

You see, you have ONE point of worldview. Incomplete one. I have another. That is FINE. The problem is that Nintendo, with their stupid shit, will slowly but surely start falling into being obsolete. That is the problem. The public opinion DOES change. And right now, LPers COUNT. A lot.
That is a campaign money CAN NOT buy. That is BEYOND what the (large) budget of Nintendo can buy... though considering how much I know about their new titles and consoles, id say their marketing is terrible as is right now...

I dont pay Nintendo for anything.

Yeah why don't you calm yourself down before you hurt yourself. You can't it a pseudo artform. That is an insult as you are telling me that its a false artform.

Yeah yeah WOT is known more than Nintendo I'm sure. Household name Nintendo, yup. Get a grip. As I said in 50 years time Nintendo will still be a legend (thus known), jobbers won't be known because... they aren't the real stars.

It doesn't matter how incompetent Nintendo were to act from now on. Just like with the earlier example I gave you of Hulk Hogan they will be known, and they will be loved.

 

[Rozalia1]

I DID NOT CALL it a PSEUDO art form...

Yes. Here WoT is, at this point in time, more well known then Nintendo. More popular. The ONLY game with advertisement. And a MORE popular and more well known game then anything Nintendo has done in the past 16 years (age of Wargaming). It is THAT simple
In 50 years Nintendo might not exist... that is what we are ARGUING.... cause of BAD business practice... due to outdated views. Mostly.

They will be known. The love for them is, steadily loosening. Also, same way that "super stars" of their day have been outpaced (Homer for a simple example) and there are "more" popular ones now. More "well known". More "loved".

Calling them the greatest of all time in an art form that is 50 years old... is stupid.

How dare you compare real events to some try-hard pseudo art form?

Come on now its there for everyone to see.

... Delusion. WoT is not a bigger name than Nintendo in this world or the next.

No star at the level of Nintendo has yet to fall like that.

It was a wrestling reference to Bret Hart. Though its true in that I can't see any company being on top like Nintendo have and having the sheer longevity they have had. In terms of being a legend... no I don't think they will ever be equaled.
You seem to believe that in regards to some talk you can become a legend simply by developing some tech... no that isn't how it works. All that does is it guarantees you'll be a footnote a couple of people will read at some point, it won't make you a true superstar.