Zelda Tears of the Kingdom Thread

hanselthecaretaker

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I figured I'd make a discussion thread about this game because it's going to be a big release for a lot of people and I might as well start posting reviews.


IIRC this marks the third time he’s *very* strongly recommended a game now, FWIT. The other two were ER and RE(4 Remake).
 

CriticalGaming

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I appreciate the effort, and I know many others will, but I am not buying.
Oh neither am I, I don't like Zelda games period so there's no real point for me. However I do find the discussion's interesting so I figured why not?

IIRC this marks the third time he’s *very* strongly recommended a game now, FWIT. The other two were ER and RE(4 Remake).
You know, I dunno. I think that's only because he used to score games, but then stopped doing that in lew of this "new" system of recommending or not recommending. So it might be only the 3rd "strongly" but it's definitely not the 3rd game he's rated highly.
 
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Oh neither am I, I don't like Zelda games period so there's no real point for me. However I do find the discussion's interesting so I figured why not?



You know, I dunno. I think that's only because he used to score games, but then stopped doing that in lew of this "new" system of recommending or not recommending. So it might be only the 3rd "strongly" but it's definitely not the 3rd game he's rated highly.
Purely out of curiosity, why don't you like Zelda games?
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Oh neither am I, I don't like Zelda games period so there's no real point for me. However I do find the discussion's interesting so I figured why not?



You know, I dunno. I think that's only because he used to score games, but then stopped doing that in lew of this "new" system of recommending or not recommending. So it might be only the 3rd "strongly" but it's definitely not the 3rd game he's rated highly.
I’d rather have it that way anyways. Regarding game scoring, the numerical/letter system is a fallacy for practically everything other than perhaps technical aspects. Even then it’s flawed, because they’d have to use different metrics for Nintendo’s dated tech.
 

CriticalGaming

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Purely out of curiosity, why don't you like Zelda games?
There are a few reasons, but if I had to put a finger on the biggest issue it would probably be the lack of story. I'm a very story focused gamer (blame FF7 for that) and so when a game story is just kind of passive sniplets or uber generic game after game, I just don't give a shit. And frankly the gameplay in Zelda games is really not good enough to carry it without that narrative throughline to keep pushing me forward.

Occasionally I do try Zelda games, like I did with Breath of the Wild, and the same problems pop up every fucking time. Only with BotW it was worse because I genuinely believe that the gameplay in BotW is bad. It tries to do too many things with the world and the gameplay that interfere with player freedom. The weapon durability is a huge problem for me because it eliminates not only the freedom of weapon choice to the player, but it also drastically hurts the potential enjoyment of any cool weapons you can find because the player knows that no matter how cool a weapon is, it's gonna break within a couple enemies so the joy of using it is shit on.

If their goal was to encourage the player to try new weapons, all they needed to do was have cool weapons with cool effects and maybe an enemy weakness system. Something like oh Lionall's are weak to electric weapons and maces, so maybe the player has electric arrows, or an electric sword. Or maybe they just have a cool mace. It presents them with loadout options that all would work in a different cool way with the enemy, but also doesn't have the player feeling like they are wasting their weapons on enemies that don't matter.

Or fuck, just add a way for Link to repair the weapons with materials found around the world. It's not that fucking hard of a concept.

But more than the weapon problem, Breath of the Wild had an exceptionally boring world problem. While there are cool moments like the Devine Beasts and the final zone, the vast majority of what the player will find in the game is the same repetitive shit over and over again. 150 shrines that are broken into three different types, 900 Korak Seeds, a bunch of Ubisoft towers. BotW and ER share the same problem in having a world that's too big with too much repeating content and very little reward most of the time.

Finally I work 45 hours a week, sometimes more. So when I'm at home playing a game I'm not really interesting in exploring a blank world. Some people hate it, but I actually really enjoy the Ubisoft style open world, where there is a ton of shit on my map that I can pick and chose what I want to do and I don't have to "find the fun". I very much enjoy the guided experience when I play because I'm not spending my free time running around trying to find the fun activity, I can just mark the map and go directly to the fun with less downtime.
 
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There are a few reasons, but if I had to put a finger on the biggest issue it would probably be the lack of story. I'm a very story focused gamer (blame FF7 for that) and so when a game story is just kind of passive sniplets or uber generic game after game, I just don't give a shit. And frankly the gameplay in Zelda games is really not good enough to carry it without that narrative throughline to keep pushing me forward.

Occasionally I do try Zelda games, like I did with Breath of the Wild, and the same problems pop up every fucking time. Only with BotW it was worse because I genuinely believe that the gameplay in BotW is bad. It tries to do too many things with the world and the gameplay that interfere with player freedom. The weapon durability is a huge problem for me because it eliminates not only the freedom of weapon choice to the player, but it also drastically hurts the potential enjoyment of any cool weapons you can find because the player knows that no matter how cool a weapon is, it's gonna break within a couple enemies so the joy of using it is shit on.

If their goal was to encourage the player to try new weapons, all they needed to do was have cool weapons with cool effects and maybe an enemy weakness system. Something like oh Lionall's are weak to electric weapons and maces, so maybe the player has electric arrows, or an electric sword. Or maybe they just have a cool mace. It presents them with loadout options that all would work in a different cool way with the enemy, but also doesn't have the player feeling like they are wasting their weapons on enemies that don't matter.

Or fuck, just add a way for Link to repair the weapons with materials found around the world. It's not that fucking hard of a concept.

But more than the weapon problem, Breath of the Wild had an exceptionally boring world problem. While there are cool moments like the Devine Beasts and the final zone, the vast majority of what the player will find in the game is the same repetitive shit over and over again. 150 shrines that are broken into three different types, 900 Korak Seeds, a bunch of Ubisoft towers. BotW and ER share the same problem in having a world that's too big with too much repeating content and very little reward most of the time.

Finally I work 45 hours a week, sometimes more. So when I'm at home playing a game I'm not really interesting in exploring a blank world. Some people hate it, but I actually really enjoy the Ubisoft style open world, where there is a ton of shit on my map that I can pick and chose what I want to do and I don't have to "find the fun". I very much enjoy the guided experience when I play because I'm not spending my free time running around trying to find the fun activity, I can just mark the map and go directly to the fun with less downtime.
Have you ever played Majora's Mask? While it doesn't have a lot of mainline story, it has lots of side stories that come together to make it feel like a lived in world.
 

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Oh neither am I, I don't like Zelda games period so there's no real point for me. However I do find the discussion's interesting so I figured why not?
There's nothing wrong with that. In addition to not being a fan, I'm also not buying as a screw you to Nintendo's price hike. The only thing I can really say about the franchise, is that I did play Twilight Princess at a friend's back when it came out, and I enjoyed both Hyrule Warriors games. That said, I have neither spin-offs anymore.
 
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10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10!!!! Everything is a 10!!!
What else is new? Simmons pointed this out many times, and so have many others. Strong positive biases almost any Zelda title.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Some people hate it, but I actually really enjoy the Ubisoft style open world, where there is a ton of shit on my map that I can pick and chose what I want to do and I don't have to "find the fun". I very much enjoy the guided experience when I play because I'm not spending my free time running around trying to find the fun activity, I can just mark the map and go directly to the fun with less downtime.
Funny you should say that. From Eurogamer’s review -

I've compared Tears of the Kingdom to Skyrim and Minecraft, but the game it makes me think of most is Assassin's Creed. The original Assassin's Creed tower loop is one of the most famous and formative in gaming: you clamber out of the world and its distractions, only to dive back in, a process that serves to unlock nearby missions and opportunities, as though your avatar were the plunger on an oil derrick, pumping the game's content out of the earth. In borrowing Assassin's Creed's towers, while trimming back or at least, hiding the busywork, Breath of the Wild reasserted that simple up-and-down process long after Assassin's Creed's sequels had buried it in optional content.

Tears of the Kingdom is sort of one enormous, invisible Assassin's Creed tower, constructed not just of stone and metal but of play rhythms stemming from the distribution of objectives and raw materials. It's an ephemeral and imposing structure that extends all the way from hell to heaven. Both its main quests and its various resourcing elements guide you steadily up and down this airy edifice: your eyes are constantly being drawn from one half of the game to the other.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Funny you should say that. From Eurogamer’s review -

I've compared Tears of the Kingdom to Skyrim and Minecraft, but the game it makes me think of most is Assassin's Creed. The original Assassin's Creed tower loop is one of the most famous and formative in gaming: you clamber out of the world and its distractions, only to dive back in, a process that serves to unlock nearby missions and opportunities, as though your avatar were the plunger on an oil derrick, pumping the game's content out of the earth. In borrowing Assassin's Creed's towers, while trimming back or at least, hiding the busywork, Breath of the Wild reasserted that simple up-and-down process long after Assassin's Creed's sequels had buried it in optional content.

Tears of the Kingdom is sort of one enormous, invisible Assassin's Creed tower, constructed not just of stone and metal but of play rhythms stemming from the distribution of objectives and raw materials. It's an ephemeral and imposing structure that extends all the way from hell to heaven. Both its main quests and its various resourcing elements guide you steadily up and down this airy edifice: your eyes are constantly being drawn from one half of the game to the other.
Sometimes I know what I'm talking about.
 
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CriticalGaming

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So, maybe you’d actually like this one?
Not a chance in hell. Weapon breakage can fuck off. It still holds true to the hallmarks of what I hated about BotW, the aimless world, the repetitive shrines, the weapon durability system.

It's a lot of factors that I have a problem with.